Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
The Almighty Buck

Typical Misinterpretation Of "Hacker" 334

Posted by CmdrTaco
from the annoying-stereotypes dept.
PopStar writes "Well, in accordance to the general population's misunderstanding of the term "hacker", Kipling has released a line of luggage which is aimed at script kiddee's, called The Kipling Hacker Collection. Additionally, they have a hacker profile section, in which they tell us what hackers look like, eat, etc." I would suggest a boycott, but this stuff is stupid- I wouldn't imagine a rational person buying it anyway. But reading a bunch of cheesy stereotypes is amusing too.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Typical Misinterpretation Of "Hacker"

Comments Filter:
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Someone referred to me as a hacker in public once, and a policeman heard. He quickly came up to me and started to question me. He almost cuffed me and would have if I hadn't explained what the word really meant. He was only a sherrif though (around here they are a police force of a bunch of locals who went to a 4 hour seminar and can't carry a gun make citizens arrests). We need a new word or something, becasue we can't take hacker back anymore due to its now soiled image. By the way, who the hell started this whole hacker=stupid kid who guessed at a password thing anyway! I want to know so I can __________ --place violent act here
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Interesting that they are daring to even use the word "Spam", my company used it in a satirical banner and instantly got a letter from Hormel...
    (hence my anoncoward login...)

    We ceased the use of it (not worth the effort at the time), though we took note that "Spam spams Spammers Spam" would be a good description of the drama (or lack of).

    They are sure to follow up with "the Troll", "the Programmer" and "the Software Engineer". :-)

    Good thing I will always be an "amateur professional programmer". It'd be hard to fit that on a backpack :-)
  • by Anonymous Coward
    kipling == computer illiterate

    Kind of like "clueless", but more specific.

    And the nice thing for them is: they certainly
    already have products with the new word on
    them!
  • by MacJedi (173)
    wizard??! now that one is insulting...
  • It looks like the modeled thier stuff and ideas from the movie "Hackers". If they wanna know what a real hacker looks like, not a 5r1p+ k1dd13, look towards Linus, or Alan, Ken and Ritchie, or any of the other TRUE hackers.. not a bunch of crap ass Micky$oft, MSN, and AOL chatroom brawlers. Sickening.
  • I dunno.. Rob's Microsoft shirt [linuxonline.org] only seems to have attracted Bill Gates..
  • Give our boys in blue a break. It's hard to run a
    police state with that pesky constitution getting
    in the way all the time.

    ----

  • I commute to work with a Timberland 'Mechanic' backpack, which has a padded section for the laptop, and lots of pocket space for a notebook, Pilot, cell phone, business cards, and reading material for the T... Counts as one of my carry-ons for plane rides..

    If you wear a fanny pack -- check yourself.

    Agreed.

  • I've tried a brute force crack using javascript in netscape, but it terribly slow... I guess it would have to be rewritten in C....and I'm too lazy too it...

    Tester
  • Posted by Assmodeus:

    ummm.... the word lame comes to mind when viewing that stupid ass site. THEY NAMED FUCKING BACKPACKS AFTER "HACKER" JARGON. someone please just shoot us all now.
  • Posted by DRemark:

    See, I want the hat. Well, I've gotten started on it. The relevent part that's taking me some not insignificant time is the function "decodeURL," which is basically just a bunch of math.

    Basically, what it does is takes two static lists of digits (lpd_code_1[] and lpd_code_2[]) and then does things with them and the loginpassword key from expandKey, which is just a a2i (ascii to
    integer) conversion from what the person wrote.

    It's not PGP :), but it's not exactly trivial. Especially considering that this comes at the end of Spring break, not the begniing. It's probably easier to go to one of the stores.

    One cannot just substitute a local class (if that's even doable...) for decodeLP(this), which one kinda wants to return true, because it also needs to have a lp_this.href that gives the URL for the new document.

    If I get it I'll post it, but only I get the hat. I'll probably quit right around the time I realized that I could be making $100 an hour consulting for companies who make stuff like this, and it's taking me many hours to get a $50 bag :)

    I expect that it'll hit me soon after I quit, or I start writing a script to try everything.

    PS: I don't think the system is robust enough - at first glance, it appears that it will give false positives, but return a 404. 64 characters max in the URL, also. Possibly 64 characters guarenteed. What do browsers do with trailing dots, spaces, returns or slashdots?
  • Posted by dhickman:

    My god, I have finally seen a site that I hope ends up on 2600's Hacked sites list.

    This is pathetic.

    The scary thing is, I know of many people who believe in the stereotypes of a computer hacker. I almost lost a job once because I used the sentence, "I guess I will need to hack up some code."

    How many of you had to explain to a PHB type, why your self taught skills are better than a recent college grad, or you say on an interview that you have been invololed with computers all of your life and they then proceed to ask you what job you gained this experience. My favorite one is...

    PHB: I see that you have listed TCPIP as a skill
    I can not seem to locate it in your resume where did you actually used it?

    I usually refer them to my 4 years of Admin experience and then my other 10+ years of computer use. I then explain to them that in order to be a unix admin you have to use and understand tcpip completly. I then mark them in my consulting firms that can go to hell category.

    -dhh
  • Posted by Doctor P:

    It would be called the slashdot effect....it would be a big ass bag full of bricks that keeps knocking things down with it's amazing power :-)
  • Posted by XIKinGIX:

    hehe....k33p1n the war3z phr33 for all the l33ts in d4 hauZ!, LOL....i love my freinds at school when they brag about who kicked who of off aol, mabie i should show them a lesson with my 3r33t k-r4d l1nuX bawX
  • Posted by GrapefruitJuice:

    How about suckers....
  • Posted by Benign_Cremator:

    Forget the game. I wanna take that site down! Who's with me?
  • Posted by dhickman:

    To be honest, it has been so long that I have had to configure a modem....

    But then again, I reconfigured my quasi-router ( POS !!@#!@#$@# ) webramp today, NAT decided to die. I know linux will do that. But this was cheap and it has worked for 2 years without a flaw. Plus the multiple modem support is nice. I guess that makes me 31337!

    Well you have to think of one thing. The media does read this page once in a while. I was watching CNN the other day and saw slashdot on there. I forgot what it was over but it was not linux related. So maybe some PHB figured out that if they pissed of a bunch of "Hackers" the 18 and under group would buy their backpacks and think they are cool. So they get free advertising. It does seem like the webpage targets that age group.

    Laters
  • Posted by Nericus:

    Peoples, you don't need to learn Javascript. if you know C you should be able to translate it. I'll admit to being a Basic/Pascal loser (haven't had time/paitence/desire to learn C or Java) and I can pick out the basics, a simple brute force routine should suffice. It even gives you the lengths (16 Login 4 Pass) and the acceptable chars! :)
  • Posted by Doctor P:

    Me being from the Banana Republic and our currency being in small marble sized balls. So we call them ball sacks. hehehe

  • Nah, PPP isn't that difficult. Just RTM. This newbie figured out how to do it without losing too many hairs. :)
  • From the OED:

    hacking coat, jacket: a sports coat suitable for use when riding, often tailored in a tweed with vents at the side or at the back.

    Hacking through the trees, I suppose, since I haven't seen RMS or ESR in one...
  • Here is the comment page [kipling.com] for "what you think of Kipling".

    Use it wisely folks. Don't just say "you suck." Explain yourself slowly and carefully.

  • Can't use God. That's reserved by us SysAdmins.
    -Erik


    This has nothing to do with this at all, but Eric Raymond is right - there is a giant conspiracy of people named "Eric" (insert different spelling here) that tend to grow beards and use a *nix of some sort...

    -Erik- :)


  • > can't anybody who reads this goddamn page take a fucking joke?

    I suspect the experiance (read: trauma) of configuring PPP on Linux would leave just about anyone humourless...

    ...just venting my PPP gripe I've had a for a while. It's easily the worst thing that an average Linux user needs to do.
  • There are many entries under "Moof" in the jargon file: 1) The call of Clarus the dogcow 2) Used to flag untested software (Moof!) within MacOS community.

    The third definition, the one that matches the Kipling useage, is said to be used within the MSN community: 3) verb, on The Microsoft Network, the term 'moof' has gained popularity as a verb meaning 'to be suddenly disconnected by the system'. One might say 'I got moofed'.

    I doubt that anyone here would admit to having used it in that sense. ;-)

  • I second this motion! In fact, I think they should be "h4xX0r4t3d" by default. If you can't figure out your web browser, you're good for at least a little public humiliation.
  • Just another indication that marketeers don't have the brains God gave a little yellow crayon. This is just plain stupid. But it is nice to know that this type of marketing isn't only in the States. Though we prolly invented and fine-tuned it. More's the pity.
  • Yes he did . . . read about it. . .
  • INTERNATIONAL DATA ENCRYPTION ALGORITHM [program.com]
    The C source on this page looks very similar to the JS code on Kipling's site.

    - Bunco

  • I looked at a couple of the bags and they had organiser pockets or something like that.

    Organiser is not a word.

    -Doug
  • I'm getting intrigued by the contest that they have posted there. Guess the username and password.

    While that in and of itself seems rather dumb, take a look at the sourcecode.

    It's all done in javascripting, including the comparison of the username/password.

    I have very little experiance in Javascripting, but i'm going to spend some time trying to reverse engineer the thing! make a REAL hacking contest of it.

    Hey, I'll buy a slashdot hat for anyone who can either figure out the username/password from the javascripting, or bypass the check completely.

  • If I get it I'll post it, but only I get the hat.

    Just to clarify, I'm only offering the hat to the FIRST person to get it, and either post on slashdot, or e-mail me directly.
  • The login name is case sensitive (seperate codes for caps and lowercase)

    It could be HackerCollection, HACKERCOLLECTION, hackercollection, or even HaCkErCoLlEcTiOn
  • Hmm...
    We should get a bunch of those bags, and make a bitchin beowulf cluster.
  • Ah, but there's one flaw in your argument. The main reason most people didn't complain when "gay" morphed to mean "homosexual" is that we already had plenty of other words in the English language that mean "happy", so it wasn't a big loss.

    Unfortunately, as others have posted, there's no convenient replacement word for "hacker", so if we let it take on bad connotations, we'll have to find another term to describe ourselves. "Expert computer programmer" is just too long. "ECP" maybe? :)

    -Jake
  • "Cracker" seems to be open now...
  • This is just one of the many sad examples of how pathetic the "fashion" industry can be.

    Take a look at some of those fashion shows on TV and you'll see more examples of people trying to cash in on the "hacker" phenomenon (really, hasn't the whole thing gone on for too long a while already?)

    FYI: I first saw those bags at their store at one of the more expensive shopping malls in Hong Kong.

    No, I didn't buy them - I'll stick to the Ralph Lauren backpacks thank you... :)

    Aside: In reference to one of the posts - just exactly how far back do you have to go to draw the line between "old school" and 3l33t dUdes? (it just doesn't look right without 25x80 screen font...)

    Maybe someone (I might, if sufficiently bored) should do a java program that displays Slashdot in "old school" ANSI... (If there's one around, tell me please?)

    Speaking of hacking, just how well can a Linux PPP firewall box protect a win95 machine from the various "hacks" (e.g. ping flood?)?
  • for fucking christ's sake. can't anybody who reads this goddamn page take a fucking joke? i mean, that fuckin page is _funny_. it _amuses_ me. it's a lame attempt at selling shitty backpacks. WHO FUCKING CARES. all i see in this fuckin "forum" is 16 year old socially-inept linux users who think they are the best fucking thing since indoor plumbing. how about you people get rid of your "i fucking rule because i installed redhat" attitude and take life a bit less seriously. you'll get through it a much happier individual.
    -lqh

    ---
  • There is an organization to combat this misuse of 'hacker', the luggage has been known about for quite a while. Take a look at:

    The Hacker Anti-Defamation League [xoom.com]

    Brian
  • No, they'll just think, "Cool! The web site is popular! We must have got it right!".

    Bletch.
  • I say, lets all slashdot the place into the ground and show them what real hackers are all about. The "typical hacker" section made me physically ill. Typical, uninformed corporate marketing trying to appeal to kids who don't even know the meaning of hack.

    I think they're getting "hacker" confused with "cracker" most of the time. I say we kill it with the almighty Slashdot Effect! Let them all tremble at our might and magicks!

  • They give us the length of the username and password on the page. Its also hard-coded into the javascripting. Apparently, the username and password decode the ascii-based url and you just go there when you win.

    So, lets look at this from a cracker standpoint. 127 characters are allowed, 20 positions they could be in, which means there are only 2540 possibilities.

    That makes it a trivial task to try every one of those keys, decode it with their script, and get the Url. Then you hit their server with the url, if it comes back 404 not found, too bad, but if it hits one of the two "winner" urls, I get a cookie. And a slashdot hat.

    On my system, running at 300 mhz, it should take less than 20 minutes to go through all possible combinations. The hard part is writing code to do it, becuase I hate javascript with the passion of a thousand white-hot suns. Hm. Maybe I'll just do it in Perl.

    There's probably an overt weakness in the encoding, too, but the cryptotext is the password itself, and I don't know either the plaintext or the cryptotext. Just the key. That makes it a bit more complicated.

    More news to come...
    Patrick N. Fitzgerald

  • I like that idea. Lets do both.

    Or maybe it could be a euphemism for a server being brought down (via cracker, slashdot effect, whatever) in a brutal and terrible manner because of the stupidity and banality of its content. Like "whoops... looks like after Rob put the story up, the server got kiplinged in 15 minutes."

    heh.

    And if we got a story posted on slashdot with the title "New jargon phrase" it would get snapped up by the big news sites. I like that idea. Of course, that's just my own little sadistic side. Death, pain and suffering to the infidels!

  • Sorry about that. It's been a long time since I had a combinatorics class. It's signifcantly more than 2540. (for some reason, I was thinking probability and got confused)

    I would say, however, that its pretty damned likely that the username/passwd combo is based on dictionary words, since we're supposed to "guess the password". Running crack on it might be a good idea.
    Or, there's always the "root the server" option. :)
    And never underestimate the "torturing sales clerks" options. Like, for example, show up every day, look around, say "I'm just looking" for about an hour or two. Every day. Try on backpacks. Inspect wallets. Tell other customers just how shoddy the goods are. Sing show tunes, loud and off-key. None of it is strictly illegal, so I bet after a week or two of this, they'll break down. Oh yes, they'll break. {evil grin}

    True crackers don't just use computers to gain access.

  • There's been alot of talk about /.'ing their server, but why don't we use the /. effect on their comment form - fill out the form, and in the "What could be improved?" box put something like this:

    "Drop the Hacker line. It's just spreading the misrepresentation of the word hacker. Some of your gear isn't all that bad, but as long as it's under this label I won't buy it or anything else from your company."

    Be truthful on all the info on the form so that they get the point and don't just erase all the responses dismissing them as we've so quickly dismissed "script kiddies".

    Someone pointed out that /.'ing them will just give them more hits and they will be able to sell more banner ads - go direct to the comment form at http://www.kipling.com/fun/guestbook.html

    Just an idea...
  • my bike messenger bag has plenty of room for a laptop, an extra battery or two, plus an external zip drive, and it fits over my shoulder nicely... now, if i could only afford a new laptop...

    j------
  • I like the Cyberpunk bag, I'd much prefer a backpack for my laptop and it's one of the better looking ones I've seen.

    Hey if anything, putting a name on all these bags makes it easier to order 'em in if you were gonna be buying one.
  • by madprof (4723)
    I use 'moof' as an exclamation word. Not that it really means anything - it's a nonsense word. It is a stupid, but amusing, word that gets used on random aoccasions. And talking of stupid but amusing, that Kipling web site....
  • by Darchmare (5387)

    Who here has used the term to 'moof' when you get accidentally disconnected from the 'net?

    Me neither. I think they pulled it out of their netherregions.

    http://www.kipling.com/hacker/collection/moof.ht ml

    'Moof' is, in fact, a reference to Clarus the Dogcow. Duh.

    http://developer.apple.com/dev/dts/dogcow.html

    Idiots...


    - Darchmare
    - Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
  • Yeah, they're particularly lame - I think we can see that.

    'Hackers' aside, what kind of crap do people use for the more utilitarian side of things? Like, my PalmIII has a nice leather case that I sometimes wear. I imagine if you have a laptop, there are numerous things you can do to strap it onto your body if you're taking it from place to place (I hate standard laptop carry-bags). I think I've seen some strap-on (hold the jokes, please) laptop bags that go on much like a backpack, but without the extra bulk.

    I'd rather keep my hands free, if possible. Who caters to those who need to carry around a Powerbook or Libretto but don't want the standard carry-bag type setup?

    Style doesn't matter, although black leather looks nice... :>



    - Darchmare
    - Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
  • Anyone notice the description for their "Chat"?

    Description: Flat wallet for boy's pocket.

    All that and no space for my Libretto!
  • Ok, it's been a while since I took combinatorics... but I'm pretty sure that it's 127 options for the first character, 127 options for the second character... etc until you get a total of 127^20 = a LOT more than 2540 possibilities.... or am I missing something here? Screw the brute force method - someone should just root the server. :-)
  • As someone else posted, the URL is http://www.kipling.com/hacker/game/login.html - does that help?
  • hacker luggage? huh? *scratches head* that has _got_ to be the dumbest fsck'ing thing i've ever heard of. the world would be a better place without humans fucking things up all the damned time.

    "It's not a cookie, it's fruit and cake". *grin*
  • and btw... the best piece of luggage for your average-every-day (*grin*) hacker is my personal favourite, the stainless steel briefcase. makes ya look like you are carrying a bomb.
  • The web page says the login is 16 characters and the password is 4. Shouldn't this make brute-forcing it fairly viable?

    -Ragnarok
  • sorry, duh you meant 73 possible characters, not 73 characters long... sorry.

    -Ragnarok
  • fanny n. (pl -ies)
    1. Brit. coarse sl. the female genitals.
    2. US. sl. Buttocks

  • And when will Americans realise that the entire rest of the English speaking world have an entirely different definition of the word "Fanny"?

    Oh well at least it keeps me vaguely amused. :>
  • The tests are on lines 483 and 489, testing strings built on lines 461 and 462 based on the current contents of lpd_code_1 and lpd_code_2.

    Which looks hard to figure out, but isn't. Just write a simple page, use:

    <form name=backdoor>
    <textarea wrap=virtual name=showme rows=70 cols=50></textarea>
    </form>

    to write a text area, open up a script below that, paste in lines 304-458 and get rid of line 440 from their script (that is put in all of the code relevant to creating those arrays) and then read it into that text-area with:

    resultstring = "";
    for (index = 0; index < 64; index++) {
    resultstring += "" + index + "\t" + lpd_code_1[index] + "\t" + lpd_code_2[index] + "\n";
    }
    document.forms.backdoor.showme.value = resultstring;

    and you get the contents of those codes. Now try to figure out what you need to build "http://" and you quickly find that the fscking idiots forgot to include ascii character 112 (and even 80) so there is no "p" (or "P" in case IE forgets that it is supposed to be case-sensitive) so there is no way to build that string.

    In other words there *IS* no name/password combination that will work.

    How lame can you get?

    Ben
  • by tilly (7530)
    Missed the swap_index depending on lpd_key.

    The contents of those arrays depends on the password's expanded form in a non-trivial way.

    Brute force looks simplest.

    Ben
  • Irregardless is the combination of an english word, regardless with a relevant prefix, ir. Thus it is an english word. The creation of a word conforming to the rules of English (thus an English word, whether it's in Websters or not. I'd be surprised if it weren't in Webster's come to think of it) and the evolution (bastardization?) of a term are two totaly different things.
  • ESR wrote the book (literally!) on this.

    Tell everyone to look at the Hacker Dictionary, volume II. Or view it online by looking for "jargon file".

    'nuff said.

    This is just more food for ZDNet to use. :/



    --
  • The people who define the usage of a word are the "owners". Ok, what's a lift?
    For instance, if my mom and her friends started calling cheese graters "floppy drives" that doesn't make it right. But if everyone else started calling cheese graters floppy drives you would be the one who was an idiot for still calling them cheese graters, as you would not be speaking the same language.
    (is "flurb" a correct usage here just because I used it?) No, because no one else understands what you mean.
  • Just go to login.html instead of index!
  • NOPE!

    I just got an email! Their sending me a bag!

    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
  • The definition of the word has not changed (at least not per se). It merely has developed a -really bad- stereotype. For example, let's take the word "communist" for those of you who lived through the Reagan era here in the US. What did "communist" mean back then? Did it mean "a person belonging to a political party that strives for equality of the working class by means of community wealth and shared means of production"? Or... did it mean "those godless bastards that want to enslave our children and take away the world's freedom"?

    Imagine yourself as a communist living in the US during that era. You don't have any problem with families or religion, and wonder why the word you use to describe yourself has become so profaned in the last five decades.

    There are lots of other stereotypes that could be drawn based on what a person calls himself or herself, but that doesn't excuse the fact. We, those who consider ourselves "hackers" really, honestly DO NOT like to be thought of as "a malicious computerexpert (sic) who breaks the security of computer-systems (sic) not to steal or destroy sensitive information but mostly just for the kick." It was our word first, just like "communist" belonged to the communists first.

    If you agree with me, join the Hacker Anti-Defamation League [xoom.com]. If you don't, I honestly feel sorry for someone so narrow-minded.


    The following sentence is true.
    The previous sentence is false.

  • ............_____............
    ...........||...||...........
    ...........|\___/|...........
    ...........|.....|...........
    ...........|.....|...........
    ...........|.....|...........
    ...........|.....|...........
    ...........|.....|...........
    ...........|.....|...........
    ......_____|<--->|_____......
    ...../.....|.....|.....\.....
    .____|.....|.....|.....|_....
    /....|.....|.....|.....|.\...
    |....|.....|.....|.....|..|..
    |....|.....|.....|.....|..|..
    |......................|..|..
    |......................|..|..
    |......................../...
    |......................./....
    .\..................../......
    ..\................../.......
    ...|.................|.......
    ...|.................|.......
    Do I make myself clear?

    The following sentence is true.
    The previous sentence is false.
  • Perhaps a more ironic way to for us to get back is to mount a campaign to get the word 'Kipling' brought into general use as a euphemism for something - perhaps some foul sexual act:

    It's already been done... many years ago. A card with a boy asking a girl, "Do you like Kipling?" Her reply: "I don't know, you naughty boy, I've never kippled!"

    * SIGBUS can't remember where he saw it, but it was in print somewhere...

    --

  • Kipling - [n] Some(one, thing) that tries to leech of a culture without being a part of said culture.
  • Sort of the Bastard Operators combat vest?
    Emp shielded pockets, hidden capacitors wired into
    the cuffs for those friendly handshakes.

    Plenty of spacious pockets for all your needful tools and toys.

    Made from durable spiderweave armor to resist letter opener to the ribs from vengeful users.

    And of course the camel w/ straw a'la stillsuit for that emergency supply of your favorite caffeine.

    Dang me, I think you have something here!


    ~Grell

    It was a typical net.exercise -- a screaming mob pounding on a greasy
    spot on the pavement, where used to lie the carcass of a dead horse.
  • I'm assuming you're arguing that hackers get to decide what "hacker" means, since they coined the phrase before popular usage altered it to mean "computer vandal." If not, forgive me.

    If so, I have to argue that common usage means a heck of a lot. Everything, in fact, because language is generally about communicating meaning in a consistent and reliable fashion. "Languages" are also, as I understand this from my linguist friend, defined in part by their capacity to change. A language that doesn't change from time to time for whatever reason is, by that definition, dead.

    In the 23rd century, maybe they will be calling cheese graters floppy drives for some crazy reason, and if saying "floppy drive" to a reasonably acculturated person chosen at random on the street makes them think of shredded cheese, well, guess what? "Floppy drive" will have come to mean a thing that you use to grate cheese.

    In this case, I think we have to acknowledge that the word hacker is no longer owned by hackers because it has passed into common parlance.

    With all that said, here are two reasonable representations of "common usage":

    From Merriam-Webster Online:
    Main Entry: hacker
    Pronunciation: 'ha-k&r
    Function: noun
    Date: 14th century
    1 : one that hacks
    2 : a person who is inexperienced or unskilled at a particular activity
    3 : an expert at programming and solving problems with a computer
    4 : a person who illegally gains access to and sometimes tampers with information in a computer system

    I don't think there's an organization in the United States that could lay valid claim to canonical authority, considering the plethora of conflicting style-guides and so on. In this case, though, I think most would agree that Meriam-Webster is certainly respectable, and could lay claim to having their finger on the pulse of common usage. Unfortunately, the Oxford English Dictionary isn't available for online perusal, because they could lay claim to representing the parent dialect.

    But what the M/W definition represents is a marginal victory for hackers of the benign variety, as does this one, from the Wordsmyth English Dictionary and Thesaurus [lightlink.com]:

    hacker
    SYL: hack-er
    PRO: hae kEr
    POS: noun
    DEF: (informal) 1. a computer programmer who is expert at correcting programs, and who is perceived as an obsessive or reclusive person devoted solely to computers.
    DEF: 2. a computer user who is able to penetrate carefully protected computer networks, such as those of a government.

    In both definitions, we see both definitions living side by side, with an edge in precedence given to the more benign variety of "hacker."

    I'm curious, by the way, what you call the American Civil War. Here in Virginia, some of the locals still call it something other than the Civil War, and they, since they're the descendents of the ones who rebelled and even started the armed hostilities, ought, following your logic, to be the ones who get to decide what it's called. That's a perogative most textbooks written to sell in California and Texas (which is to say "most textbooks") deny them.

    I guess I'm just fine with everyone thinking "hacker" means vandal, anyhow. It doesn't change what I do one bit, which lately involves hacking on a nasty bit of proprietary software at work that made the mistake of using .dbf files even as the marketing droids try to sell us a multi-$1000 "conversion package." No coding is involved, just widespread spoofing of some indexes the designers must have thought others would be too dense to find. When I'm done, the taxpayers around here will have saved thousands of bucks, instructions on how to do what I did will be sent to other customers of the company that inflicted the horrible blob of code on us all, and I will remain a "non hacker" because there aren't any around here to confer the honor, which I understand is one of ESR's requirements for the title.

    Guess I'll just have to wait for a local certification board to form.

    I'll also wait to call what I'm doing "a hack," because that would upset the boss. I'll just call it "flurbing" and tell him it's a geek word for using something for other than its intended purpose.


    ----------
    mphall@cstone.nospam.net

  • I always thought it was because it made the letters look sort of like they'd been cut and pasted from various sources, like a ransom note in the movies or whatever.


    ----------
    mphall@cstone.nospam.net

  • Jeez, not one piece of luggage called a multiplexer. Not even a piece called cache or register or kernel or packet. And why the **** would I want to buy a bag called a "guru?"

    Are we now getting to the point where the fashion of the geek scene becomes that important?
  • Can't use God. That's reserved by us SysAdmins.

    -Erik

  • Of course that is important. However, you know you're not supposed to discuss this in an open forum. Smoke-filled rooms, only.

    Didn't you get your Official Eric Conspiracy Kit(tm) in the mail?

    -Erik (the one, true way to spell it.)

  • There is no "C"-specific code. C++ is a superset of C. Backwards compabtability with C was one of C++ design goals.

    --Ivan, weenie NT4 user, Jon Katz hater: bite me!
  • Seems like that is really what is going on here.

    They're just trying to sell backpacks.

    Good ploy, tho. Probably will trick lots of kiddies into buying back packs. Or rather, have their parents buy them one.

    Hehehehe.
  • Maybe this would motivate you all to create an account.

    At least this way you might not get filtered out as an ac. *shrug*
  • That would just be further motivation NOT to log in.

    Sounds good to me :p

    Anyway, seriously. I don't really have a huge problem with ac posts. I choose not to filter them out, even tho most of them just add noise.

    This would at least be an option for you ac's who want to post but don't want to be filtered out. You could be translated and just snickered at.

    Point is, don't expect to be taken seriously unless you put your name behind something. I'm not filtering ac's now, but if things don't clean up a bit, I might. *shrug*

    What is worse, being filtered out or being laughed at?

  • The point is no one is really "standing" behind their posts here, we gain no security, there is NO BENEFIT to forced logins--so why do we have them?


    If you will recall, never did I suggest that you HAD to get a login. As a matter of fact, I even pointed out that I don't filter you idiots out. Yet.


    The benefit of having a login is that fools who would normaly post mindless crap might worry a bit more about their reputation. Also, we can much more easily ignore posts by people who do have a login but who post crap (ie MEEPT. And you can't tell me the reason he/she/it didn't leave was because we could all ignore him/her/it).


    So you don't want a login. Fine. I'm not going to loose any sleep over it, but I would still like to be able to translate you into 31137 script. At least it would make me laugh. And I wouldn't have to filter you out.

  • by Dast (10275)

    How does a login help this? Just change your login from time to time. It just makes it more troublesome, that's it.

    Well, I guess you are right. There is no real way to stop your stupid posting but filter out all ac's.

    You are still missing the point here. Hoping that a translation feature will encourage people to get a login is secondary. I just pointed out that it would be funny. If you are scared that people wont take you seriously, that is your problem. Not everyone has to use the translations. The only people who will use it are the ones who wouldn't take you seriously anyway.

  • howabout a way to set all ac posts as being displayed in that 3133+ script. that would be hillarious.

    it would be even less reason to take them seriously.
  • Well, I'm interested in this (even though I've got three postponed midterms tomorrow). So I've modified the Javascript so that it searches the keyspace of the "password" field until it matches "http://" as the first seven characters of either decoded array. At that point, it puts both the key and the resultant URL in text boxes and keeps looking until it's exhausted the keyspace.

    The character set I'm using consists of ASCII 32-126, inclusive. Anything else would be hell to type in on the keyboard. ;) I'm using Tim Pierce's suggestion of "hackercollection" as the login, so I only have to work with the password.

    Yes, it's slow. Yes, it's inefficient. But I've just gotten the partial C translation from Tester's post, and I'm going to work on putting all of this in good ol' C.

    If this particular search doesn't work, I can just modify the schtuff to additionally search the "login" keyspace. But I _really_ don't wanna do that... (14 more characters to deal with! ACK!)

    If I find anything, I'll post again to this thread...

    Good luck, everyone!

    --W
  • Yeah, I looked at it. I know C/C++ but have never seen javascript before in my life. It looks like it would be pretty simple to translate into C and then do a brute force search. But I have real work to do.... OK, I admit, I'm procrastinating right now, but I can only procrastinate for so long. :(
  • Hey dude,

    Don't know about you, but when the authorities are on you, you cooperate. Period. I'm not sure if you're aware of it, but people do get busted for something as "stupid" as ignoring a police officer. Guess it must depend on the mood of the officer.

    On the topic of "probable cause", the officer's probable cause is what he or she believes may have been a crime committed recently or if there is the posibility of a crime being committed. If they think you robbed a store, they'll question you. If they think you're resisting them, prepare for a bad day.

    And yes, it DOES suck that "hacker" has been poisoned by the media, by that stupid movie, and by people who don't understand. But it IS poisoned. And if for those who want to go out there and fight the mob effect, go right ahead. Chances are, you're better off looking for a new banner to ride under in the public eye.

    Just because you think you have rights, doesn't mean you will always have access to them. Your right to freedom, to live, to life. It can all be taken away as easily as someone getting shot. Mistaken. Stabbed in the back. Or just thanks to ill-meant clerical errors.

    Yeah, people have rights. But unless you believe 100% that whomever it is who's denying you your rights will respect you, be they cops, thugs, or the media, you will be up for a fight.

    If you're the kind of person who fights for their beliefs and rights, my hat goes off to you. That is by far a much braver thing than I can afford to do.

    - Wing
    - Reap the fires of the soul.
    - Harvest the passion of life.
  • Hmmm ... perhaps it is similar to Finlandization? (Though stockholm is not in Finland, it is in Sweden). Finlandization was a term during the cold war for "friendly" countries which deferred to the Soviet Union on some issues out of fear of invasion or other retaliation. For example, Russians escaping to Finland were ruitinely sent back to Russia, so much so that the border between the USSR and Finland wasn't particularly well garded, unlike other "iron curtain" frontiers elsewhere in Europe. I took it to mean "selling out some of your basic values for a little short-term security." Perhaps the meaning has different historical roots than Finlandization -- anyone have a more definitive answer?
  • Please correct me if I am wrong, but a glance at this code seems to look like a simple Xor.
    P ^ Key = C;
    C ^ Key = P;
    So all one has to do is figure out the length of the key. There is a method to do that called counting coincidences (breifly explained in Applied Cryptography, a wonderfull book). Then shift the ciphertext, C, by the length of the Key and you effectivly have P ^ (P shifted the length of Key). With this infomation (ASCII ^ ASCII), we should significantly reduce the possible choices and be able to pick the correct plaintext, P.

    Or not. Maybe I'm just tired....or missing something. I'll look in to it tomorrow after class if no one has figured it out by then.
    --
    Four years in jail
    No Trial, No Bail
    *** FREE KEVIN *** [kevinmitnick.com]
  • paraphasing/quoting from Applied Cryptography (pp 14-15) (NOTE: this example is random Key XOR'd against ASCII text, this is different then the percentages for this contest. This also assumes that the key is small.) 1) Discover the length of the key using process known as counting coincidences. XOR the cyphertext against itself shifted various numbers of bytes and count those bytes that are equal. If the displacement is a multiple of the Key length then > 6% of the bytes are equal. If it is not a multiple then less then 0.4 % are equal. This is called then index of coincidence. Take you smallest displacment (the one w/ greater then 6%), this is the number we want for step 2 2) Shift the ciphertext by that length and XOR it with itself. This removes the key and leaves you with plaintext XOR'd with the plaintext shifted the lenght of the key (the number we found). 3) The fun part. English has 1.3 bits of real information per byte, so there is plenty of redundancy in order to find the exact plaintext. Remember we are only dealing with ASCII here. The percentages are different, but the concepts are the same. Thanks Mr. Schneier!!!
    --
    Four years in jail
    No Trial, No Bail
    *** FREE KEVIN *** [kevinmitnick.com]
  • paraphasing/quoting from Applied Cryptography (pp 14-15)

    (NOTE: this example is random Key XOR'd against ASCII text, this is different then the percentages for this contest. This also assumes that the key is small.)

    1) Discover the length of the key using process known as counting coincidences.
    XOR the cyphertext against itself shifted various numbers of bytes and count those bytes that are equal.

    If the displacement is a multiple of the Key length then > 6% of the bytes are equal.

    If it is not a multiple then less then 0.4 % are equal.

    This is called then index of coincidence. Take you smallest displacment (the one w/ greater then 6%), this is the number we want for step 2

    2) Shift the ciphertext by that length and XOR it with itself. This removes the key and leaves you with plaintext XOR'd with the plaintext shifted the lenght of the key (the number we found).

    3) The fun part.
    English has 1.3 bits of real information per byte, so there is plenty of redundancy in order to find the exact plaintext.

    Remember we are only dealing with ASCII here. The percentages are different, but the concepts are the same. Thanks Mr. Schneier!!!
    --
    Four years in jail
    No Trial, No Bail
    *** FREE KEVIN *** [kevinmitnick.com]
  • how about /.er?
    We all obviously qualify for it now, and it has no mainstream definition yet.
  • Yeah, but it's just a mailto form. Won't put much of a load on their server, but it didn't stop me from telling them how much they sucked...
  • Hmmm, well, should of figured it would happen sometime but hmm, this is just a little lame for my tastes. But hey, this shows what their target age audience is.

    They also have a fine collection of movies that I'm not going to bother wasting my bandwidth to download..

    Oh well.
  • Perhaps a more ironic way to for us to get back is to mount a campaign to get the word 'Kipling' brought into general use as a euphemism for something - perhaps some foul sexual act:
    "I was going to hire him yesterday, but then I caught him kipling with a sheep in the yard..."

    I would imagine it would be easy to get it in common usage.. just tell a few braindead media types that its official "hacker jargon".!
  • lol! good werk ;P

    but you still need the login and pass :P
  • I really believe this is too fucking stupid.
    After the movie Hackers every fucking soul on the face on the planet has this huge misinterpritation. At school the other day there were a couple chicks who thought I was cool based on the fact I claimed to be a hacker. Since when do I break into systems? Jesus Christ. Time for a little revolution!
    -Kp2
  • Sheesh... what a load of crap. I downloaded a couple of those .mov files (after I "hacked" the sourcecode since I don't have a Quicktime plug-in for HP-UX), and talk about garbage. A bunch of blurry camera panning around New York city or some other concrete jungle.

    What's the commercial world coming to? Naming BACKPACKS after "firewalls" and other computer terms?????!!!

    Anyway, all of the "hackers" (actors) look more like slackers from a SURGE!!!!! commercial. Yeah, they're c00l d00dz!!
  • This has got to be the stupidest thing I have ever seen. Yeah, I have to agree with the fact that this is for the 12-14 year old script kiddies.

    Personally, I get my backpacks and other such storage gear at camping stores, probably much higher quality equipment and no stupid marketing schemes. I like my day pack, balanced like an internal frame pack, can accept an internal frame, 40 Liters of space, came with a Platypus (more commonly known as a Camel back sans insulation, so I get 2.5 liters of pure hydrating enjoyment), and it is also a technical bag, so it does what I need it to. Features like this are pretty common in most backpacks you find in camping stores. Backpacks like mine are also really comfortable, easier to carry and a lot more rugged (tear resistant fabrics).

    You know, this really parallels M$ vs. Linux...
    Backpacks for the Outdoors vs bags based on a stupid marketing scheme.... Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

    ph43drus
  • by sith (15384)
    So, they take a line of luggage that they already had, randomly applied words that are usually associated with computers and now its HackerGear? I think i'm missing something here. Yay, i can get a spam backback.. but, why would I want one? Should I walk up to my friends and say "hey, check this bag out, its a spam". I think somebody in the design department of this company wasn't thinking when this line was designed. We're past the point where anything related to computers will sell (notice the decline in computer related movies since 1995). If you're going to make a line of "hacker" clothing, at least make it semi-useful to computer users - otherwise I'll just buy a $15 backpack at walmart.
  • you almost have to wonder who they are targetting with this. Anyone who actually knows what's going on, probably found out about this gear through slashdot, and by that token, sees how silly it is. Anyone who lives in the real world(yes I consider the fun little internet-world that we live in to be different from the real world), and doesn't have a clue will say "no...I can't wear that...I'd be a geek(please...no debate over geek definition). I think the market is limited to 12-14 year old kids who like to win-nuke eachother, and grandmothers who will send this to their 12-14 year old grandchildren after they win-nuke her.

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain." -- Karl, as he stepped behind the computer to reboot it, during a FAT

Working...