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Hardware

The Raspberry Pi 400 is a Compact Keyboard With a Built-in Computer (theverge.com) 151

Posted by msmash from the moving-forward dept.
The Raspberry Pi Foundation has announced the Raspberry Pi 400, a compact keyboard with an ARM-based computer built in. Just plug it into a TV or monitor using one of its two micro HDMI ports, insert a microSD card, attach a power cord and mouse, and you've got yourself a basic computer for day-to-day tasks, coding, or media playback. It's available starting today as a standalone machine for $70 or in a bundle including a mouse, power supply, microSD card, HDMI cable, and beginner's guide for $100. From a report: The hope is the Pi 400's form factor, plus these optional bundled items, makes it more approachable and user-friendly. That's important when you're selling an affordable computer, and it's especially important when you're selling an accessible device to help children learn to code. It looks more like a piece of consumer electronics than the basis for a DIY project. [...] Aside from its keyboard and form factor, the Raspberry Pi 400 is a very similar computer to last year's Raspberry Pi 4. It's got a slightly faster quad-core 1.8GHz ARM Cortex-A72 CPU, up from 1.5GHz in the Pi 4, 4GB of RAM, Gigabit Ethernet, Bluetooth 5.0, and 802.11ac Wi-Fi. There are a pair of micro HDMI ports that can each output up to 4K / 60Hz, two USB 3.0 ports, and a single USB 2.0 port. Power is provided via a USB-C port, there's a microSD card slot for storage, and there's a GPIO header for attaching a variety of more niche devices.
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The Raspberry Pi 400 is a Compact Keyboard With a Built-in Computer More

The Raspberry Pi 400 is a Compact Keyboard With a Built-in Computer

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  • Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday November 02, 2020 @10:46AM (#60675222)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re: Damn that was quick! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by t0qer ( 230538 ) on Monday November 02, 2020 @10:59AM (#60675300) Homepage Journal

      Ya that was my first thought when I saw it. Was gonna buy an Atari 800 system when I asked myself why? I could emulate it without all the hassle of the original hardware. This is just perfect for that.

    • Re:Damn that was quick! (Score:4, Interesting)

      by rickb928 ( 945187 ) on Monday November 02, 2020 @11:11AM (#60675362) Homepage Journal

      To be fair, shoehorning a pair of 5.25" floppy drives and a 10MB hard drive into a keyboard-ish enclosure was not practical. Even my favorite keyboard ever, for the DisplayWriter, not practical. The power supply also would not fit.

      But dayum, with very little effort, this 400 becomes a NAS station easily. I'm actually more interested in taking the board out and fabbing a decent enclosure for this, a pair of 2.5" USB drives, and boom. Later, a USB 3.0 raid attachment. I'll get one as soon as I can, just to reconstruct it into something I want. And for those of you playing along at home, I do not use WiFi for my NAS.

    • Re:Damn that was quick! (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Dan East ( 318230 ) on Monday November 02, 2020 @11:17AM (#60675392) Journal

      Then... in the late 1980s the establishment in computing decreed that keyboards with computers in them weren't "serious" and so we went to the three box model for almost all computers ever since, and if it wasn't three box, it was only because the computer was built into the monitor for some reason

      There's a VERY good reason. It's the same reason I've always avoided DVD/VHS or DVD/TV or VHS/TV combos. One of those mechanical things is going to fail, and it won't be worth the expense to have it fixed. So you'll end up with a device where part of it is in perfect working order, and the other part isn't.

      When all those unified computer consoles came out, there was a very good reason for it. There was no universal keyboard standard or connector, and whatever business related keyboards were out there (IBM, etc) where massive and expensive. Even the first Amiga 1000, which did have an external keyboard, had a totally proprietary keyboard and connector. So by merging the keyboard and computer hardware, they could simply save money and save space, which was important for home computers of the era, since they had to provide the keyboard anyway.

      With this Pi all-in-one, I just hope the keyboard is high quality. Further, I bet you that it's just a USB keyboard and interfaces with the Pi in that manner, as opposed to the Pi being the actual driver for the keyboard buttons. So even then they're "cheating".

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Shaitan ( 22585 )

      Well 'serious' meant modular which provided the flexiblity to upgrade and replace individual components. This made excellent sense given the cost of hardware at the time.

      But yes, I miss my c64 as well.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Any reviews of the keys yet?

      Hard to say how important they are... Back in the day with 8 and 16 bit machines the quality of the keyboard was a big deal. Even the rubber dome ones on machines like the Amiga were pretty decent.

    • It's got nostalgia value, and I could see it maybe even being handy as a mobile workstation, though the lack of a standard full-sized HDMI port really undercuts it there since you have to carry around a specialized cable for it to work. But I grew up with a Vic 20 and then Commodore 64, put a lot of miles on them, and my mother replaced the worn-out keyboards repeatedly.

      That's the big innate problem I see with the form factor - keyboards are cheap technology that fail far more frequently than relatively ex

      • Don't know what you're doing to your keyboards, but mine last decades of daily use. That's good enough for a $70 device.

        What I don't want, though, is a heavy keyboard with a whole bunch of cords coming out of it getting tangled while it sits in my lap. If your monitor and all other connections are wireless maybe it's worth considering.

    • Yes but those came bundled with quality keyboards, (well at least the ones still fondly remembered). This looks like the kind of keyboard you replace every year, and that many people cannot stand to use even when new.

      I really love the idea, and it might even work if rPi was targeting the luxury market and putting out a $1K device. And while it will likely be very successful for them and make a lot of money, you don't put a pi on a $10 keyboard, if you really care about your customers. This is the number one

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Membrane keyboards get a bad rep but they can be pretty decent if they are well made.

          In fact just having a membrane tells you almost nothing. The Model M is a membrane keyboard. Yeah, the ultimate mechanical keyboard actually uses a membrane to detect key presses, it's just that it also has that amazing buckling spring mechanism to give the keys that unique feel.

          BTW I've heard that the Unicomp ones are not as good as the originals, and they are very expensive in the UK so I'm hesitant to find out for myself

          • I think the main aspect is if the membrane is the keys, or has the keys directly connected to them. I like the $10 microsoft membrane keyboards with the plastic keys, They are copying a design that used to have real steel springs in them, I believe, but now they just design the plastic locking arms to spring the key back into place. Super cheap, 95% the same as multiple hundred dollar mechanical keyboard, last for the better part of a decade.

          • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • The reason we didn't keep packing things into the keyboard is because by the time the C64 came along it was already too thick to fit everything in there and still be ergonomic. Imagine trying to put an entire IBM AT machine inside a keyboard. Separating the keyboard from the computer gave much more space for things and allowed things to be upgraded much easier.

    • Then... in the late 1980s the establishment in computing decreed that keyboards with computers in them weren't "serious" and so we went to the three box model for almost all computers ever since, and if it wasn't three box, it was only because the computer was built into the monitor for some reason.

      The establishment decreed? Seriously, you wanted a 5.25 full height RLL drive in your keyboard? There was a reason to put the main computing part in a box separate from the keyboard, not some bourgeoisie decree.

    • Computing power has evolved since then. Back then trying to cram computing power into a luggable computer was challenging. Today a phone and tablet provide a good amount of power for a lot of people.

      The irony in this setup is that a Raspberry Pi placed on the back of a monitor would reveal a lot less cabling on the desk. To reduce the cabling here you would need a Bluetooth mouse and then have the monitor with a built in USB hub.

    • Apple 8 bitters, then you mean the very first ones? As all Apple ][ variations came in a case with external keyboard except Apple //c

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by kenh ( 9056 )

        Apple 8 bitters, then you mean the very first ones? As all Apple ][ variations came in a case with external keyboard except Apple //c

        What? The Apple 1 shipped w/o case, keyboard, or power supply. The Apple 2 had all three (keyboard, case, power).

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by hawk ( 1151 )

          There were *supposedly* a handful of ][ that shipped as boards, but I've never encountered one nor met someone who ha.

          The "red book" that came with the ][ had instructions for the power supply needs and connecting the keyboard.

          I just can't find anyone who can actually confirm whether or not any shipped.

          hawk

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by vux984 ( 928602 )

      "Never did like that trend. Nice to see, 30 years later, Raspberry bringing it back."

      What didn't you like about the trend exactly?

      Spilling coffee on your generic office keyboard right now is a $10 replacement. Even a high end gaming keyboard is a fraction the price of the high end gaming PC it's attached to. Keyboards have more mechanical moving parts than anything else in the system, often exposed to a steady diet of dust, hair, food, liquid, and physical abuse ... hardly seems the most logical place to w

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by vux984 ( 928602 )

          I'm not really a fan of the clutter of having all that run to the keyboard, as well as usb peripherals that are left in 24x7 (printers, wireless mouse receivers, etc)

          A lot of people mount their pi onto the back of the monitor. If you want a few usb ports on the keyboard; keyboards with a built in USB hub already are moderately common; and monutors with built in usb hubs exist as well.

          That seems like a better solution to me overall.

    • I don't think so.  Keyboards have moving parts, computers don't.  If your cheap keyboard breaks, the valuable part becomes useless.

      Apple has it right with the mac mini.

  • "One Laptop Per Child" (Score:3)

    by nospam007 ( 722110 ) * on Monday November 02, 2020 @10:48AM (#60675234)

    Long time no see, how are you?

  • The 1980s phoned... (Score:3)

    by Viol8 ( 599362 ) on Monday November 02, 2020 @10:52AM (#60675264) Homepage

    ... they want their home computer back.

    Seriously, a good idea if not a new one, but that looks suspiciously like an Apple style keyboard and I don't just mean the colour. I do hope it has better keys.

    • I think it was a good idea before reliable wireless keyboard. But now days theading a heavy hdmi cable to your couch is inferior to putting an RPi in a cheap case closer to your TV and getting a middling-quality bluetooth keyboard.

      As an ex Tandy 1000 user, I do appreciate the retro aesthetic of the keyboard computer format.

    • Re:The 1980s phoned... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by jellomizer ( 103300 ) on Monday November 02, 2020 @11:16AM (#60675390)

      Well a lot of us cut our teeth with these 1980's style computers.
      Especially with the Raspberry PI IO Ports (AKA Parallel port) it allows kids especially to get a better understanding on how things work, with ports that are magic, plug it in and it works, like USB and HDMI. Back as a kid, I use to mess with the Parallel port to do interesting things like a D-A Converter for a simple sound card, Or hook it up to a Relay Switch, to make it turn on a high voltage light or other power item.

      Then when came Windows with Plug and Play, no longer using dip switches, and other components that made hardware easy to understand, but became simple to use, just as long as you are going to use them the way the hardware maker wants you to use them. USB came out shortly later, further separating ourselves further from how the hardware really works.

      We scarified easier to understand for easier to use.

    • A good idea for corporate profits perhaps. What happens when the keyboard fails?

      It maybe makes sense for an ultra-compact portable budget novelty computer like this one. I mean, they increased the cost by ~$25 compared to a Raspberry Pi 4 & basic shell, and for your money you get an integrated keyboard. You could get a much nicer keyboard for $25, but for the target market maybe the added simplicity and portability is well worth it.

      For "real" desktop computers costing several hundred dollars though?

      • Re:The 1980s phoned... (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Computershack ( 1143409 ) on Monday November 02, 2020 @11:58AM (#60675658)

        A good idea for corporate profits perhaps. What happens when the keyboard fails?

        You open it up and remove the Pi and then you basically have a Pi 4 minus the headphone socket. I would expect that you'd be able to buy another keyboard to replace it given that the Raspberry Pis are supposed to be for people to experiment with hardware building.

        • More likely leave it in the broken keyboard since it's not a standard Pi-format circuit board so none of the standard shells, shields, etc. will fit it anyway. So you've got a keyboard plugged into a broken keyboard+computer... and what exactly was the point in integrating them in the first place?

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by kenh ( 9056 )

            To suit a particular market segment.

            It's a 4 gig Pi4, case & keyboard for $70 - add $8 ps, $8 mouse, then you just run HDMI and power to keyboard and you're good to go.

            It is an alternative to buying VESA mounts when building up classroom labs.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by kenh ( 9056 )

        A good idea for corporate profits perhaps. What happens when the keyboard fails?

        Plug in another keyboard? Is that really a problem?

        When was the last time a computer outlasted it's built-in keyboard?

        Personally, not a fan of the cables shooting out the back, but typically it will involve HDMI, mouse, and power - not really a rats nest, and I'll forgive the mouse cable, as Bluetooth is an option there.

        Would have been nice to build it into a Logitech K400 keyboard w/ trackpad...

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by OzPeter ( 195038 )

      ... they want their home computer back.

      Seriously, a good idea if not a new one, but that looks suspiciously like an Apple style keyboard and I don't just mean the colour. I do hope it has better keys.

      Did you at least warn them about all the disasters, like big hair and parachute pants?

  • Raspberry Pi 4 (this is based on) offers 8GB RAM option, they this does not have 8GB RAM variant too

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jjmcwill ( 3739 )

      No 8GB RAM
      No easy way to put a USB3 to SATA/M.2 SSD internally without serious hacking. (SATA/M.2 has been shown to blow away the MicroSD card for perf.)
      STILL no support for ArmV8 crypto instructions in the Broadcom SOC. We are in a modern era where Crypto is used heavily everywhere. Sad that SBCs like the RockPro 64 have crypto instructions but RPi does not.

  • I get the nostalgia factor, and if you are throwing away money on a toy that's cool, it's your money. But having a non-upgradable computer put into a crappy keyboard is the OLD way of doing things. Today we only put them into miniature displays, aka cellphones.

    Notably, they have failed to make the 8GB version available as a keyboard, and all the lesser versions are better used as embedded platforms than as a desktop computer, because RAM is so important now. I remember when 8MB was a lot, and when my 4/260

    • Agreed, though I come at it from the opposite direction -why would you want to integrate a cheap, failure-prone keyboard into a virtually immortal solid-state computer? I couldn't tell you how many times my mother replaced the keyboard on our C64 when I was a child.

      I'm much more concerned with the non-upgradability of the computer when it's integrated into something expensive - as is the case with all-in-one computers. You're basically forced to throw away a perfectly good monitor every time you upgrade

    • Who is this for?

      Its not your main computer, it can be a specialized secondary. For example, use it exclusively for your online banking. Should be an improvement over the computer or phone you use for everything else which is more of a malware target. Seriously, its a Linux box that gets used for exclusively one thing. Compare that to your general purpose Windows box or Android phone.

      Take the SD card out to secure it. Give everyone their own SD card, then no one is really sharing a computer and increasing their risk prof

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by kenh ( 9056 )

      Someone setting up a lab in classroom that doesn't want to deal with 30 boards, 30 cases, and finding someway to secure the board to the monitor.

      All you have is a hdmi cable, power cable, and a wired mouse. Exactly one more wire than a traditional RPi setup, but no need to stow the system unit.

      Going with 8 gigs would raise unit cost 30% for just keyboard, 20% for "kit". (Those extra 4 gigs of ram cost an additional $20.) what need do average users have for 8 gigs versus 4 gigs? Hey, I'm all about more for t

  • It's like a modern Spectrum or ZX80. Terrible keyboard with a cheap computer inside. Those were still big hits, this may be one, too.

    • You can spend hundreds of dollars to just get a good mechanical keyboard, especially if you that into typing. I don't feel the goal of this is to be a word processor expert. But a tool for kids and hobbits to make low end things, the real advantage of the Raspberry Pi is its multi PIN IO port, that allows for easy access to external electronics.

  • If you already have an android TV, it is cheaper to hack that and install linux on it (or run linux in a container) than to buy separate brains. So if the vision is to help the poor then I do not get it.
    If the idea was to make a neat computer then they should have integrated the pointing device into the keyboard and made the cable USB-C so the keyboard and the computer could be powered by one cable from the TV.
    If the idea was to make a portable debugging device for field techs then this thing has too many p

  • BASIC (Score:5, Funny)

    by flyingfsck ( 986395 ) on Monday November 02, 2020 @11:18AM (#60675400)
    Does it come with BASIC and Turtle Graphics?

    • Does it come with BASIC and Turtle Graphics?

      I guess those are in the Raspberry Pi OS repositories, as it is just a variant of Debian Linux.

      Or you could use RISC OS [riscosopen.org], which includes the excellent BBC BASIC V [wikipedia.org].

    • Does it come with BASIC and Turtle Graphics?

      And graph paper mapping the screen [xs4all.nl] so you can plan your images?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by nickovs ( 115935 )
      It comes with Turtle graphics, since Raspberry OS comes with Python and Python has a built in turtle [python.org] package.

      BASIC is not installed by default but if you want it then you can install a version with sudo apt-get install basic256 or you can download a good, old-fashioned BBC BASIC [bbcbasic.co.uk].

  • but those simple day are gone.
  • If the keyboard isn't great, this is a missed opportunity. Especially if you want to teach kids typing, it's important that they have decent keyboards. A solid Chinese mechanical keyboard only costs about $25 now.

  • C'mon, Pi people. Get with it! Make a Pi with dual ethernet ports already!

  • Including that Low travel chicklet keyboard. those died in the 80's and needed to stay dead

  • Pass through? (Score:3)

    by ChunderDownunder ( 709234 ) on Monday November 02, 2020 @11:55AM (#60675636)

    Forgetting that there is a computer inside - Can this be used as a regular keyboard with USB hub?

    e.g. $70 in the price range for a DeX hub to plug your Android phone into a TV. Or for thin laptops that are sparse on outputs.

  • I ask because I've spent some time over the last few hours trying to answer that question.
    If I can link this to a display without having to use the HDMI adapter cable, or use some crazy fix, it would be great.
    That said, I don't see anything for effortless projection to a TV. Would be cool if someone developed such a fix.

    • How easy or hard is it to wirelessly project to TV
      I ask because I've spent some time over the last few hours trying to answer that question.
      If I can link this to a display without having to use the HDMI adapter cable, or use some crazy fix, it would be great.

      In 2010 through 2015 there was Intel WiDi, their low latency uncompressed wireless display protocol which, by the end of its lifespan, supported UltraHD. It was discontinued by Intel in 2016. The replacement is called Miracast. It's WiFi Direct with a hardcoded video protocol running over IPv4. It also officially supports UltraHD at 60 fps, though not many devices implement it. It's relatively common in newer 1080p projectors.

  • than one built into one combined with a "computer". IMHO somewhat waste of resources for a lower quality outcome, ...

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by kenh ( 9056 )

      You only represent a fraction of the market space. People rarely hook $50 keyboards to $50 computers - certainly some do, but not many, and for those with that preference they are still offering the original raspberry pi form with no case or keyboard.

  • My first thought was "Ono Sendai" from Neuromancer ...

  • With all these new models coming out, I hope we are not going to see a race to make Pi into a PC replacement. As soon as I saw that Pi 4 needed a fan my heart sank - I want the project to be a fun lo-fi hobby and not require 8 gigs of RAM!

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