Lightbulb DRM: Philips Locks Purchasers Out of 3rd-Party Bulbs With New Firmware (techdirt.com) 358
sandbagger writes: Purchasers of the Philips Hue 'smart' ambient lighting system are finding out that the new firmware pushed out by the manufacturer has cut off access to previously-supported lightbulbs. Philips contends that this move will help their customers. A statement from the company reads in part: "While the Philips Hue system is based on open technologies we are not able to ensure all products from other brands are tested and fully interoperable with all of our software updates. For guaranteed compatibility you need to use Philips Hue or certified Friends of Hue products."
Time for a boycott (Score:5, Interesting)
Keurig tried this crap and it didn't work out well for them.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
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You already should have avoided them. The HUE is so poorly designed that if you try and connect the Zigbee ZLL bulb to a different controller they essentially brick as they go to a channel they cant use.
HUE bulbs are complete crap with a very bad design.
Re:Time for a boycott (Score:5, Funny)
Philips: Fuck you!
Tony "Scarface" Montana: No . . . FUCK HUE!
I guess you needed to have seen the movie to get that joke . . .
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it didn't work out well for them to the tune of $14 Billion, ~40% ABOVE share value.
Re:Time for a boycott (Score:5, Informative)
Keurig tried this crap and it didn't work out well for them.
Philips is the largest manufacturer of lighting in the world, with revenues of about 21 billion Euro a year. It is a potent incentive for potential competitors to make their products Hue-compatible.
Re:Time for a boycott (Score:5, Funny)
Sounds like an opportunity to make the new VHS of lighting. Phillips will become Betamax, expensive and proprietary. The new standard will be cheap and open, and widely supported, and popular with porn studios.
Re: Time for a boycott (Score:3)
You mean we will get porn shot with decent rather than terrible lighting ?
Who would watch that ?
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Re:Thankyou you Cocksucking Envirowackos (Score:5, Insightful)
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Oh for mod points. But mod points wouldn't really work in this case because I'd mod you +1 informative, +1 funny, even though they don't have it, +1 Zing!
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Cree LED bulbs, both the original design and the newer 4Flow, work well on dimmers. I have three chandelier fixtures with dimmers; I did the first two with the earlier Cree bulbs, but the third had to wait for the 4FLow because the thick collars of the older bulbs wouldn't fit into the glass shades.
They don't get as dim as incandescent bulbs but they get dim enough for me. There is no visible flicker when dimmed and multiple bulbs track correctly (that is, they all dim the same amount); both of those things
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Their explanation is BS. You can't take advantage of a standard to work with the products from your partners but lock out the ones that aren't and claim it is for the customer's benefit.
Philips just fell off my vendor list (Score:5, Insightful)
.
My first CD player (purchased in 1985) was a Philps (with a Magnavox nameplate). I've also purchased other Philips products since then.
I will no longer buy Philips products so long as they are aggressively DRM-happy.
Re:Philips just fell off my vendor list (Score:5, Interesting)
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Some corporate genius figured that they have you hooked and that you have no options other than to bend to their will when buying light bulbs.
That corporate genius forgot one option: the inevitable class-action lawsuit.
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"By using the luminance provided by our light bulb in order to read this contract, you agree to the following terms: ..."
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The lawsuit isn't part of his KPI's, that comes out the legal teams budget.
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I don't believe that this action by Phillips is arbitrary.
imo, it is definitely not arbitrary. Whether it is just a bad tactic or part of a misguided strategy is unknown to me.
.
Regardless, Philips is now an ex-company for me.
Re:Philips just fell off my vendor list (Score:5, Insightful)
On slashdot, we always made the analogy of DRM in automotive tradition of being like buying a car and the manufacturer being able to control the brand of fuel you put in it. It would seem that instead of just taking that as an explanation, various corporate douche bags are taking it to heart and trying to do it with every possible product they can. Corporations always complain about too many regulations but those asshats are the ones who always force the implementation of more regulations because of their abuses.
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*sighs* DRM is all sorts of things. Your history is sorely lacking on the subject. RMS started the movement back at MIT when the administrators started making everybody use passwords. He, and some friends, started encouraging everyone to either use the same password or, better, to simply leave the password field blank. DRM is digital rights management. I'm 100% certain that you're a fan of it. If not then stop using CHMOD, CHOWN, and let me know your password.
Re:Philips just fell off my vendor list (Score:5, Interesting)
It's more like Tesla having control of maintenance of battery etc.
No it isn't. The battery is part of the car. The hub and the bulbs are separate devices, that are supposed to work together using a standard interface, Z-Wave [wikipedia.org]. But Z-Wave is a crappy standard, with a lot of holes in the specs, so things don't work well together. Philips should be working with other manufacturers to iron out those problems, rather than fragmenting the market even more, and making Z-Wave even more worthless than it already is.
Disclaimer: I have a Z-Wave home automation hub, and I am a very dissatisfied customer. If these companies don't work together to get these problems fixed, Z-Wave is going to fail just like X-10 did. This is potentially a huge market, and they are blowing it. If Z-Wave fails, then Apple will come along with iHome and take over the market.
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There have been pushbacks in the past because of monopolies, as in auto dealerships could not be owned by auto makers. I think it's a part of the reason why auto makers finance and parts divisions are theoretically separate companies.
Does Tesla prevent you from getting service for your battery module somewhere else, or is it just nearly impossible to find someone who can work on them reliably? Consider the Wankel engine in Mazdas as an example.
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This Z-wave crap and all the other Phillips junk make the old X-10 stuff look like the pinnacle of engineering.
I had dozens of X-10 gadgets made by dozens of different companies, and guess what? They all fucking worked together perfectly.
X-10 was a serviceable (if somewhat hokey) system, but I had my house fully automated 20 fucking years ago and all that shit just worked.
Really, it all worked together perfectly and it didn't cost an arm and a leg for a power outlet or light switch.
I still use some of it to
No Surprise (Score:5, Interesting)
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Phillips have a very long history if making things as difficult as possible for everyone else. Going right back to their early TVs and radios.
Philips are very active patent trolls as well. They own patents (that they got by purchasing Color Kinetics some years ago) on technologies as broad as having an LED with a constant current driver (pretty much how all decent LED lighting works). They sue any successful manufacturer of LED lights and actively run a protection racket. Even buying LED modules and drivers from Philips to use in your light fittings doesn't make you imune, you also need to license their 'technologies'.
Premature (Score:5, Insightful)
I think Philips forgot the cardinal rule of technological trojan horses: make sure people are actually using your product BEFORE the dick lock-in moves.
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Maybe it is being knifed in the cradle like the DAT cassette tape.
I guess ... (Score:2)
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As long as there's a bulb that takes electricity in and gives luminance out, you'll be able to use it. The Phillips thing is just for silly millenial generation features ("help, my phone can't turn on my light!").
Box it all up and send it back for a refund (Score:3)
Re:Box it all up and send it back for a refund (Score:5, Insightful)
buy products from a responsible company that isn't out to screw over their customer base.
Good luck finding one....
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The light bulb is basic enough that you'll be able to find one. This is just for the HUE product which are not just light bulbs but light bulbs to control with your smart phone and do all sorts of cool stuff that people like nerdy slashdot readers don't understand (I think it's got some sort of electronic MDMA emitter judging from their marketing).
Incandescents may be out, but it's only a few parts to make an LED bulb. You an even take the Philips bulbs I suspect and hack them to apply voltage directly wi
Re:Box it all up and send it back for a refund (Score:5, Funny)
How many lightbulb manufacturers does it take to screw up a market?
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How many smart lightbulbs does it take to screw a customer?
Easier said then done. (Score:3)
Sounds like they're aiming to screw themselves out of the market entirely. Strip it all out of your house and send it back for a refund...
Sears, Roebuck was selling gas light fixtures as late as 1910.
Why?
Because lighting affects your choice of color, patterns and textures in flooring, wall coverings, window dressings, furniture and upholstery. It is an expensive business transitioning from one form of natural or artificial lighting to another --- and once you make the commitment, there is no turning back.
Queue "bright idea" lightbulb above Philips exec (Score:5, Insightful)
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From the HUE developer program web site:
http://www.developers.meethue.com/documentation/friends-hue-update
“There is no change to Philips’ commitment towards an open system and ZigBee Light Link as the best standard for residential lighting control. Our lights continue to be fully standards compatible with differentiated features built on top of the standard and exposed via our bridge.”
“Yes, we will continue to allow other applications to work with Philips Hue without certification”
* Until we feel such applications are cutting into our profit margins, or the CEO needs a bump in his stock dividends before cashing in his golden parachute.
Welcome to the I(di)oT (Score:5, Interesting)
Does this really surprise anyone? This is one of the primary features of most IoT type setups - you dont own what you have bought, you are just using a service, and therefore of course they feel free to redefine that service as they wish.
They here of course is not limited to Phillips, but people will continue to be surprised by this.
Until we see some (haha! yeah right) legislation that makes it illegal for terms, level, or functionality of service to not be reduced or removed without agreement from BOTH parties, this is what we will have.
Consumers were enough for a while, but the hunger has increased, and you only paid once then! It is immoral for the middle class to be allowed to save, so more ways must be invented to empty there wallets weekly to fund the top (rulers) and the bottom (troublemakers who must be paid to stay in check)... Welcome to the machine.
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Does this really surprise anyone? This is one of the primary features of most IoT type setups - you dont own what you have bought, you are just using a service, and therefore of course they feel free to redefine that service as they wish.
They here of course is not limited to Phillips, but people will continue to be surprised by this.
Until we see some (haha! yeah right) legislation that makes it illegal for terms, level, or functionality of service to not be reduced or removed without agreement from BOTH parties, this is what we will have.
Consumers were enough for a while, but the hunger has increased, and you only paid once then! It is immoral for the middle class to be allowed to save, so more ways must be invented to empty there wallets weekly to fund the top (rulers) and the bottom (troublemakers who must be paid to stay in check)... Welcome to the machine.
Perhaps we should change the terminology: from "consumers" to "consumed".
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This would already seem to be covered by European consumer protection laws. It varies slightly from county to county, but fit example if you buy something over the internet you get two weeks to return it without reason. In the UK you don't have to return the original packaging, which is often self destructing anyway.
As a protest you could order 50 Phillips Hue bulbs, discard all the packaging and return them because the DRM broke your network. The seller will have to return them to Phillips to be tested and
Re:Welcome to the I(di)oT (Score:4, Interesting)
IoT is just a generic term, please don't apply your shitty purchasing decisions and the "your just using their service you don't own it" meme to something so generic. IoT is nothing more than a connected device. I have several such devices. I have built such devices. I have devices from one vendor talking to a remote graphing service provided by another vendor. I have a power meter being logged by a Linux PC.
You don't need new laws, you just need to do a bit of research. The dicks will remove themselves from the market when they realise the whole reason for having IoT devices is interoperability.
Next step, specific brands of batteries only (Score:4)
Say goodbye to standard battery sizes like AA or AAA or D or even the rectangular 9v. In the future, everything will have a custom made battery, that you have to replace regularly, and will only be available from the original supplier.
Until they obsolete them, at which point your device is useless and you will have to buy the newest one.
Please note, I am probably *not* giving anyone any ideas here... this is already happening with consumer electronics like phones, it probably won't be long before it applies to everything.
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That'll even out once we stop seeing improvements in image sensors for a while. People don't care about long-term maintenance of digital cameras because they expect to buy a new phone every couple of years anyway.
Up Next: Light as a Service! (Score:3)
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It was my idea though. Even though I hired a whole lot of engineers to actually build it. So I should get all the profits. You know, "pet food in the cloud", no one thought of that before me.
Good way to kill a nascent market (Score:3)
Let's hurry up and apply onerous DRM to our already-overpriced new product!
Hue bulbs seem like an interesting idea, but the price was already more than I'm willing to pay - so I hadn't bought into this system. Now Philips has seen to it that I never will.
Any legal grounds for a refund? (Score:5, Interesting)
In cases like these, are there any laws allowing you to return the product for a full refund? After all you may have bought it under the premise that it could do something. Then the manufacturer altered the product post-purchase to prevent it from doing those things.
If there isn't such a law, it's high time we passed one. I don't own any Phillips Hue lights, but it was on my short list (not anymore). I would imagine anyone who's bought them to use with non-Phillips bulbs will be pissed. This defeats the whole purpose of using a standardized light socket.
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You left out the clause enforcing mandated arbitration in the event of a dispute, eliminating any possibility of a class action lawsuit.
Otherwise, +1 True.
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They can clause it up all they want. Once you go to "binding" arbitration without satisfactory result, what prevents you from taking them to real court?
Now they can ensure (Score:2)
While the Philips Hue system is based on open technologies we are not able to ensure all products from other brands are tested and fully interoperable with all of our software updates
Now they are able to ensure that all products from other brands are completely non-interoperable.
I Am Hue (Score:2)
I'm starting to suspect that "Hue" actually has nothing to do with light and everything to do with the STNG character "Hue", the Borg that was captured and adopted by the crew. The name was supposed to be a play on words, one Picard, who had been rescued from the Borg, found particularly distasteful.
Remember: Resistance is futile.
How many engineers does it take to change a lightb (Score:2)
the firmware?? (Score:2, Insightful)
new firmware pushed out by the manufacturer
The fuck?
I've been buying lightbulbs for well over 5 decades and have never once needed my lightbulb to have "firmware". My computer, sure. My lightbulbs, not so much. Everything seems to have been alright thus far.
What is this about? Why would I ever want firmware in my lightbulbs, let alone anything internet connected?
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Its not the bulbs, its the bridge that controls the bulbs. Basically you've got some smart lightbulbs, but they need an intermediary between the network/internet and the bulbs to relay commands (over RF I believe). Philips updated the firmware on their bridge to only command Philips bulbs.
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Its not the bulbs, its the bridge that controls the bulbs. Basically you've got some smart lightbulbs, but they need an intermediary between the network/internet and the bulbs to relay commands (over RF I believe). Philips updated the firmware on their bridge to only command Philips bulbs.
Ah, see there is the problem I believe. All this talk about internet and network and commands over RF. No, see, it is much more simple than that. Apply voltage to socket, or don't apply voltage to socket. Then any bulb works.If your bulb can understand commands, then it has been overdesigned. All it needs to do is turn on when voltage is applied and turn off when voltage is not applied. It doesn't even have to think about doing that. Basic physics will go ahead and take care of it.
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The internet of things will help ensure that network administrators have full time jobs. Check your privilege. Light is a service now. Get over it.
This should surprise no one (Score:2)
Seriously....this should surprise no one.
That's what "interoperability" means to these fuckers: It'll interoperate with our stuff, not anyone else's.
Besides, only terrorists want interoperability, citizen! You only want interoperability if you have something to hide, everyone knows that! Just like with using encryption!
Now think of the children (and our corporate profits) and move along, consumer!
Why do light bulbs need firmware? (Score:2)
LOL, guess who won't be buying them? (Score:2)
Guess who won't be buying them? That's right, me.
Thanks Phillips, for screwing it all up so blatantly before I spent a dime on your jackass proprietary crap.
Ah, this is just the beginning (Score:2)
Soon light bulbs will not be replaceable. You'll have to buy another house.
I can't even (Score:3)
figure out why anyone would put up with wireless control of their lights AT ALL - I really don't feel like having my evenings interrupted by the neighborhood a-hole teens turning my living room into strobe-central.
Why should they still be ZigBee certified? (Score:3)
It's pretty crappy that ZigBee allows this kind of behavior while Philips still has the ZigBee label on their boxes.
Can somebody who RTFA (Score:2)
Re:Can somebody who RTFA (Score:5, Informative)
The Philips Hue devices form a 'network' of devices, with controllers (dimmers, light switches, and the "Hue Bridge" which talks via a Rest API with Philips' Android/iOS apps), and lights. Philips devices are 'ZigBee' devices, and other manufacturers also make ZigBee devices which can interoperate with the Philips ones, joining the same network.
As of this change, ZigBee devices of any sort can still join the network, and non-Philips ZigBee controllers can still steer the entire network (including Philips devices), but now Philips' controllers will not control non-approved devices. They'll just refuse to talk with them altogether, not even making an attempt.
Philips says they'll approve certain third party devices as "Friends of Hue" and let them in, but presumably that will involve paying some amount for the certification.
At what point is this illegal? (Score:2)
Fuck Phillips (Score:2)
This is why people dont autoupdate devices (Score:2)
Great. All we need is for enough things like this to encourage more people NOT to update their IoT. Fannnntastic.
I have a Hue set I won as a door prize. I was ambivalent to smart bulbs but happy they were open standards. The rest of my HA gear is zwave. Now I will treat these as just another proprietary widget not to be implemented.
Amazon Review (Score:5, Informative)
Folks, take a couple of minutes and add a review of the Hue products you own on Amazon. A naive buyer will think that he/she can use it with the LED lights from Cree, for example, because there are websites showing this pairing -- we need to inform buyers that this will not work.
It's a service we owe other consumers.
Hue hubs currently enjoy an average of approximately 4 stars. That number seems overly high.
Philips (Score:2)
And In the Beginning (Score:2)
On the 8th day, God, once again said "Let there be light", and Phillips said "F*ck you .. We didn't make those lights!".
Thus it was that Phillips joined the Dark Side.
Shooting their own foot?? (Score:2)
For anybody with older ("3rd party") bulbs, Phillips has, essentially bricked their controllers.
Just wait for the apple car all service dealership (Score:2)
Just wait for the apple car all service dealership only at apple prices and while there at it an DRM filling hole for windshield washer fluid, drm on the lights, apple only changing cables / converters, maybe even ATT only cell plans with big roaming fees.
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Let the damn thing fail due to no sales.
Re:Well there (Score:4, Funny)
but without the internet connectivity how will i ever be able to turn on the lights.
Re:Well there (Score:5, Funny)
Send a packet to your Roomba to roll over to the wall and turn on the light.
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That's a great answer. The only problem is, this is a change to existing installed systems. Not acceptable. And I'm going to consider anyone who considers it acceptable either an idiot or a shill...or possibly the kind of economic fundamentalist who combines the two characteristics.
when you think of drm and dmca... (Score:3)
remember the Clintons.
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Guess I can scratch them off my list.
Yeah, this year they are on Santa's naughty list. Hope they get a lump of coal shoved up their socket.
Re:So basically (Score:5, Insightful)
Corporate douchebags never learn from history. They think that /they/ are special and are going to be able to pull it off, speculating that nobody will catch on and that their product is /so special/ that it can't be changed out for something else, that their company, and their company alone, is the sole innovator in the market.
It's a blinkered thought process only that sociopaths would find attractive. You know, the Carly Fiorina types.
Meanwhile this brain-dead transparent effort to boost stock price only does the opposite.
--
BMO
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Re:So basically (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:So basically (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:So basically (Score:4, Insightful)
Are they all running for president right now, too?
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I think that was supposed to be sarcasm, as Steve Jobs was on the sociopath scale.
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Re:So basically (Score:4, Informative)
Printers are moving in the other direction - at least Epson. I finally gave up on feeding my ever-more-finicky Canon and got an Epson L355 with the ink tank system... god, I've been waiting so long for something like this. The paper now costs well more than the ink. The side effect is if I want something... I just print it. I don't have to worry about whether its worth the cost.
My only complaint is that they could have designed the refill bottles better... they're just pretty normal squeeze bottles, no leak protection on the openings, and no special splatter protection on the ink tank openings, so you have to be rather careful when filling tanks. But it's a minor complaint. Oh, okay one more: I can't tell it not to shut itself off - you can do that in Windows but I use Linux, and the android app (which is otherwise really excellent) doesn't have the ability to control that aspect.
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Oh, okay one more: I can't tell it not to shut itself off
Ditto an expensive office Brother laser printer we have in our store. I can set the timeout to max, and it stays on, but if there's a 2-3 day break (E.G. Christmas, Thanksgiving) when it's not used, it will just turn off and have to be manually prodded to start up again. This really annoys the POS that's expecting a printer to be there.
WTFFF?
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I print something about once a month. WTF are you people doing that you need to use so much god damn paper all the time? It is long past time you monkeys learned to operate without printing every damn thing.
I print several shipping labels daily to ship products that my customers have purchased from me on sites like Amazon, Etsy, eBay, and elsewhere. Also, each package includes a printed thank you note that shows the buyer where else I sell. For these tasks, I have a network enabled black and white HP Laserjet that was given to me. It also came with enough toner cartridges to last me a lifetime.
Just because you have no need to print stuff daily does not mean the rest of the world also has no need.
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I print something about once a month. WTF are you people doing that you need to use so much god damn paper all the time? It is long past time you monkeys learned to operate without printing every damn thing.
I'm not surprised there's no printer in your mom's basement.
You obviously have never been anywhere near an attorney's office, real estate office, shipping center, or any other place where people have to interact with the real world, for that matter. People print stuff all the damn time in the real world.
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Nobody has examined the source code, so one can't be sure, but many people appear to have reported that their non-Phillips bulbs suddenly stopped working. That's not just a maybe. You can argue about what the reason is, and perhaps the change *is* standards compliant. But that's not the way to bet, and even if it's true it looks as if they intentionally changed the specs to disable competitors.
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Re:What is the best choice for Open Source lights? (Score:5, Informative)
Philips Hue. I'm not kidding. The ZigBee Light Link protocol that it uses is an open standard. The API that the Bridge uses to communicate via HTTP is also open, published by Philips. A few third parties have even made LightLink-compatible bulbs. They did not reverse-engineer anything. This summary is a little misleading in several ways: first, any third-party devices already joined will stay that way (unless you reset your bridge to defaults with the new firmware on it); second, there actually are problems with some bulbs that were exposed with the new firmware; and third, it's not that they aren't allowing third-party devices but rather that they just want them to be "Friends of Hue" certified first--though in fairness, even though that program has been around for a couple years I don't think anyone besides Philips has created products for it.
Someone could create an open-source ZigBee LightLink "bridge" compatible with Hue that lets you join whatever bulbs you want. It's just that nobody's done this, possibly because Philips' own product has historically been so good. I suspect some third party may create a compatible "bridge" soon, maybe SmartThings since their hub already has a ZigBee-capable radio, if they ever decide its' a good idea, but who knows. You'd probably also lose the Web-based functionality the Philips bridge enables, like scene syncing across devices, control when you're away from your home network (without needing to VPN in), and the ability to also use the website to control your lights.
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Candles and a book of matches? :)
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Hue exposes a REST API, you can talk to it yourself in whatever way you want.
Hey, Hue! You stupid sonofabitch! Turn my fucking lights on!!!!