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Comments: 385 +- Calling Video Professor a Scam on Saturday November 28, @06:54PM
Posted
by
kdawson
on Saturday November 28, @06:54PM
from the spade-a-spade dept.
from the spade-a-spade dept.
background: url(//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/topicbusiness.gif); width:64px; height:54px;
business
palmerj3 writes in to give some wider attention to a piece on Techcrunch today in which Michael Arrington reacts to Video Professor's desperate attempts to shut him up after he called Video Professor a scam in a piece syndicated by the Washington Post. As described by Arrington, the ways the company's site operates (differently depending on where a visitor comes from) are strongly reminiscent of the practices a Senate committee recently condemned. (Here is a detailed example of another, similar scam, from a not-naive victim. Video Professor's tactics sound even more deceptive.) Video Professor seems to react with belligerence, not to mention legal threats, towards any hint of criticism. Please share any direct experiences you have with this outfit.
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first impressions (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:first impressions (Score:5, Insightful)
Who cares about the name, they sued their own customers to shut them up about being scammed. That's more than enough evidence of a scam.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
the BBB is worthlless (Score:5, Informative)
you don't even have to reincorporate somewhere else to pull that scam off. The BBB makes money from businesses paying them for "accreditation" and they don't make money from consumers. Their bias is obvious.
Here in SoCal there is a construction fraud gang that seems to mostly be run by a Moroccan/Israeli family named Ben Shulsh. I tried to report their most recent front company (Erco Construction) to the BBB and they would even bother to even look at it. They publicly list the same front people, and they are at the same business address as their last front company (Highrise construction) and 2 miles from the front companies before that (BC Specialty Construction, Bashan and Allied). The BBB only changed the the rating on BC from A+ to F *after* they had robbed everybody, folded up shop and when into hiding for a few weeks. This despite complaints going back months.
I wouldn't put any stock in the BBB or its rating of anything. They are just there to collect the accreditation fees.
Parent
I ordered from them in 2005 (Score:5, Interesting)
Who/What is Video Professor? (Score:4, Insightful)
Seriously, I know I could just google it but damnit slashdot, this sounds like a typical example of an editor knowing about a subject that a submission happens to be about yet most likely the average slashdot users doesn't have a clue as to what/who the fuck "Video professor" is.
/Mikael
Re:Who/What is Video Professor? (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:Who/What is Video Professor? (Score:5, Interesting)
I got scammed too. Not only did I not get my "free" MS Excel video in the mail, but I got billed for it and other CDs too. I ended up contacting my bank for a stop-payment. It got so bad that I had to change my CC number. Fuckers! I hope the CEOs ass lands in prison for this shit!
Ya, I'm pissed...
Parent
Re:Who/What is Video Professor? (Score:5, Informative)
I hope you are joking about this being a "scam". This is a tactic used by many many legitimate companies that offer "free" trials. Even Blizzard does it with World of Warcraft free trials..*
Sorry, any company that offers a "free trial" and then automatically bills you is running a scam. Yes, there are many otherwise legitimate companies that run this scam. Yes, the Blizzard "free trials" are a scam. This tactic is a scam, any company that uses it should be considered suspect.
Parent
Re:Who/What is Video Professor? (Score:5, Interesting)
I have to disagree with you. If all of the below are true:
These systems tend to have a bad name because at least one of the above requirements are broken by many bad-faith operators. In Video Professor's case, VP are selling unaccredited video learning courses apparently primarily aimed at the elderly for absurd amounts of money. In addition, apparently many customers were unaware of the fact they were signing up to an automatically rebilling system. So in my list of rules above, both (2) and (3) were violated. Book clubs in the UK were infamous for breaking rules (2) and (4), though in fairness their prices were reasonable enough that they had many satisfied customers. Cable and Satellite TV companies the world over are infamous for (1), often combined with (4).
The fact that so many scams use the model doesn't make the model a scam. There are plenty of scams that use the "You pay $X for something in the expectation it'll be sent to you" model too, but fail because a list of rules ($X has to be reasonable, the actual something you ordered needs to be delivered to you and be as described, the actual something that's sent to you can't be stolen property, etc) are broken.
As always, with any commerce system, the key questions are based upon good and bad faith, and the reasonable requirements and expectations of buyers. "First one free, others not free and sent automatically unless you cancel" is not inherently a scam. It is, after all, an improvement on "Pay for all of them, sent automatically unless you cancel."
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Re:Who/What is Video Professor? (Score:5, Informative)
The last time I did a WoW free trial I didn't have to give them any payment information at all. The account just went dormant after two weeks and they told me I could buy the game online to re-activate it if I wanted. I didn't and they never billed me in any way.
Parent
Re:Who/What is Video Professor? (Score:4, Insightful)
If you, as a company, ends up having a lot of paying customers who thought they were getting a freebie, you're probably at least guilty of misleading advertising. If your business model is based upon tricking people who didn't read the fine print, I would consider it a scam. If you're selling a good product which actually gives value for the customer's money you don't need to use such tactics in the first place.
You and I would probably never fall for such tricks, that doesn't make it OK for a company to exploit those who will.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Who/What is Video Professor? (Score:4, Funny)
Please share any direct experiences you have with this outfit.
Also implying that some of us here don't know how to use a computer; there's no other way we'd have any "experience" with that "outfit."
Parent
Re:Who/What is Video Professor? (Score:4, Funny)
Bork, bork bork bork!
bork bork bork? Bork borkbork!
bork,
Bork
Parent
Video professor made things right for me (Score:5, Funny)
When I complained, they gave me a free credit report from their partners at freecreditreport.com. I don't know what this guy is complaining about.
Yup, He's a Crook (Score:5, Funny)
Yes, the idiot is known to do bad business. Sadly if we start shutting down corrupt businesses we will shut down the American economy. We might have to shut down most state governments as well.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
just Jersey
I'm the lucky one. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I'm the lucky one. (Score:4, Insightful)
They gave me my money back AND let me keep the course. That really surprised me.
Given their high profile, displaying a desire to avoid criminal prosecution really shouldn't come as a surprise.
Parent
Re:I'm the lucky one. (Score:5, Informative)
You really missed the point on that. They are like Dell, in that they just keep the money for 30-60 days, since from what I can recall Dell convinced the hardware suppliers to paid monthly, or on even longer cycles (Not accusing Dell of wrongdoing here). You make your real money in a quasi-Ponzi scheme in which you make money in 3 ways:
1) You keep the money that people don't complain about (what you mention)
2) Interest on the money you are keeping. It's not unusual in telemarketing scams to have millions, to tens of millions of dollars at any one time in a bank account.
3) Flat out just playing risky by taking more and more money out though other service companies (more scams) till eventually:
a) FTC comes in and shuts you down.
b) You run out of money, burn your bridges, or can't keep coming up with new products and services that people have not caught on to yet.
By this time you have been smart enough to let other take the fall and liability and you move on to a new company, different name, different products, sometimes a different foreign call center group, and start the same fucking shit.
There is a saying, "The poor will always be with us". Well there should be another one, "The stupid/naive/foolish will continue to be take advantage of by the wolves".
Heh. Just barely. Laws vary from state to state. What they do is push it as far as they can till the Attorney General's office of a particular state threatens them enough and they will have the call centers stop calling the area codes for that state. Of course they won't take any more orders for that state either.
Once enough states have blocked that product, they move on to another product in the works and repeat. If the Attorney General does try to actually ban the company, they form new companies. It never affects the products since their entire infrastructure is divided among holding companies, operating companies, service companies, foreign call center companies, and the companies that own the products being sold or are responsible for the marketing. You will usually find Mr. Big owning part of them, directly or indirectly, safely from foreign companies located in nice warm places where the bars sell you drinks with funny names and hats.
Trust Me. They are all of full of shit and know fully what they are doing.
Posting Anonymously for safety.
Parent
Video Professor is a "X of the Month Club" (Score:5, Informative)
type business. Now Video Professor sells a series of Tutorial Movies on CDs that show how to use a Windows software product or Windows itself or some Web Site like eBay. Like the "X of the Month Club"s the first one is free for X days and if not sent back and order is canceled new Video CDs are sent and the person's credit card is charged.
Calling it a "scam" is very strong words, and they have sued people who say that. It is a business and the terms on the TV commercials are in small print, and the EULA the user clicks on explains it is a membership in a club to purchase Video CDs for various software products.
The Average Slashdot member doesn't need Video Professor because we usually just use search engines like Google to figure out how software or web sites work. These Video Professor CDs are marketed towards the luddites and people with little to no computer skills and open up a video in Microsoft Media Player. The type of people who don't bother to read the EULA or know that it is a membership or trial offer. So you could say that Video Professor preys on the unskilled and the weak, but legally they have a legal contract with them via the EULA they click agree on via their web site or via the Phone Orders. If it is a legal agreement and legitimate business it is not necessarily a scam, it might be unethical or immoral or appear to be wrong in some way but it is still legal. It is as legal as those "Book of the Month" or "CD of the Month" businesses.
You'll actually find the Internet full of such offers and such companies. But Video Professor airs TV commercials targeted at people who don't seem to understand how a computer works much less how a trial membership works.
I hereby challenge the free and open source community to make a serials of software tutorials for various Windows operating systems, Windows software, web sites, etc and provide those videos free via downloads or web site streaming to engage and or challenge the Video Professor company, and provide free alternatives that people on Slashdot and other technical web sites can refer to our friends and relatives who might get taken in via Video Professor, and instead we can redirect them to the FOSS web site of software tutorial videos or download them and burn our own FOSS Software Professor CD-R disks and give them to them for free.
Microsoft would sue. (Score:5, Funny)
I hereby challenge the free and open source community to make a serials of software tutorials for various Windows operating systems, Windows software, web sites, etc and provide those videos free via downloads or web site streaming to engage and or challenge the Video Professor company, and provide free alternatives that people on Slashdot and other technical web sites can refer to our friends and relatives who might get taken in via Video Professor, and instead we can redirect them to the FOSS web site of software tutorial videos or download them and burn our own FOSS Software Professor CD-R disks and give them to them for free.
The F/OSS community doing a Windows training video? Ahahah ....OK, wavy lines...wavy line....wavy line,,,,,
Start of video....
Enter guy with black hair, black goatee, horns, pitchfork, and dressed in red.
"Hi, I'm Satan and I'm here to teach you about my Operating System : Windows. Using this OS will automatically give your everlasting soul to me. Now to begin....."
Every other frame will be a quick frame that says:
F/OSS is the GOOD in the World. Linux is your salvation!
Please excuse the typos. For some reason my spell check on Firefox isn't working on this Fedora 12 box. ????
Parent
Re:Video Professor is a "X of the Month Club" (Score:5, Informative)
It is, but it doesn't have the balls to tell you up front that it is. That's hidden away on an easy to miss corner of only one part of their webpage (and on none of the subsequent pages you have to click through to complete the transaction). They're not even doing a boiler plate type EULA thing "click here if you agree that its ok if we charge you every blah blah". They just "assume" you read the entirety of their front page and if not, then tough. Well actually, they're probably assuming you didn't -- because if you did, there's no way you continued on with the transaction.
Where Video Professor really crosses the line is in the amount charged. Most of the "x of the month" club type businesses thrive on *apathy*. People know full well that they're going to be charged 10 dollars every month unless they cancel, and they fully intend to cancel, but they just never get around to it.
This, on the other hand, is set up to thrive on *ignorance*. More than likely, you aren't going to know a thing about that 290 dollar charge on your credit card until it hits you. And then, what can you do? Cancel? You've already bought them *all* in one charge.
A business model based on consumer apathy is slimy, but tolerable. People are getting screwed, but they know it and they accepted it. Ignorance, on the other hand, is just not "ok". Grandma isn't reading the fine print on this web page and there's just no way she knows she's going to get billed for 290 dollars until it happens and then its too late.
If your business model is based around the idea that "People can't know your business model, or they won't buy your product" -- then it's a scam. It might comply with the letter of the law, IANAL -- but by the strict dictionary definition it is deception and therefore it is a scam.
Parent
THEY ARE NOT A SCAM! (Score:5, Funny)
Honest, I used video professor to learn to sell on Ebay and not I am making $10,000 a month and living the life I have always dreamed of. Thanks video professor!
Re:THEY ARE NOT A SCAM! (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Incompetent or a Scam, your choice... (Score:5, Interesting)
She started trying to cancel it within two weeks.
It took over 3 months before they would actually cancel it, and that was like pulling teeth with tweezers.
She must have sent 20 emails and spent 40 hours on the phone trying to get them to cancel.
That is either Massive incompetence, or total scam.
I really don't care which, but I'd advise you to not use Video Professor.
Besides, their stuff is really basic. You'd be better off taking an introductory course at your local college, or just checking out stuff at your local library.
(Either of those options will be cheaper as well.)
It's almost a shame (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:It's almost a shame (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:It's almost a shame (Score:5, Insightful)
Because such "learn at home" videos are in fact very difficult to make: they have no feedback with the student, they're easily at far too sophisticated or far too untrained an audience, and because "teaching Photoshop" reequires a great deal of hands-on experience to learn how the workflow really works, and to recover from errors or inappropriate shortcuts. It's far easier to make a very lame and poorly produced document that does not actually teach, but relies on fraud to make its profit.
Such behavior is very common: do not rely on something sounding "perfictly viable" to assure that it has, in fact, any useful quality.
Parent
Legal notice sent to Uncyclopedia (Score:5, Informative)
VP sues 100's in 2007 (Score:5, Informative)
Slashdot posted this story in 2007 about Video Professor sueing to get critical reviews off the internet.
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/24/1619240 [slashdot.org]
Yeah, that worked out well for them, didn't it?
Video Professor (Score:5, Informative)
I ordered a 'free' Video Professor Access learning set about 10 years ago. The set came with 3 discs in a single package. 2 of the discs were free, but in order to keep the 3rd, the last lessons, I would have had to pay the $29.95 for the set. In other words, if you want the free part, it's only the introductory and intermediate lessons. Additionally, each disc installed several programs I would have to characterize as spyware. Not just the first, but each disc. Before they would run any lessons. So, I sent the 'free' software back. And then I got to struggle with their hands in my pocket through 3 more 'free' (unordered) sets, each of which showed up on my credit card statement before the (unordered) sets arrived. Each subsequent time I called to protest I was told to keep the discs. Of course, they were worth more as infections than as product. I finally canceled the credit card to stem the pilfering. 'Scam' is kind.
Lie after lie after lie (Score:4, Informative)
I knew about the 10 day deadline to stop the extra charges and made it in time. I also called the customer service line to inform them that I had sent in the refusal notice. But they charged me anyway. So I called them to ask what was up and they said it would be taken care of in five days. So in seven days I called them again to ask where was my refund. Once again, they said it was a mix up or a clerical error and it would be processed in five days. This process repeated over and over. Each time they apologized and said it was a clerical error and would be taken care of within five days. But it never was. It was just one lie after another. It went on for months before I finally wrote to the Denver Better Business Bureau. Only then did they actually refund the money that they had no right to take from me in the first place. John Scherer (the video professor) is as dishonest as they come. They might not be breaking the law but if you have an ounce of sense in your head, you will never do business with this crook. (I called him much worse when I was fighting to get my money back.)
What it really sounds like (Score:5, Insightful)
Is that gaming market is doing a great job of trying to implode on itself. Seriously, if the way it works is the games that participate in offerbot scams are the successful ones... Well then I don't see it having a long term future. After all, there are TONS of PC games that are not that way, be they web based Flash games or retail games or whatever. There are more games than you can play in a lifetime out there that aren't like this. If this is what the gaming scene on Facebook is, my guess is that it'll implode and disappear in a couple years.
Parent
Re:What it really sounds like (Score:5, Insightful)
Calling Farmville a game is like calling Mattel (Hot-Wheels) a car company. :)
Parent
Re:What it really sounds like (Score:4, Funny)
Correct, it's a retarded addiction.. Like paint huffing, gasoline sniffing, or self waterboarding.
Parent
Re:Bad Summary (Score:4, Informative)
well according to this
http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/11/28/video-professor-washington-post-scamville/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+Techcrunch+(TechCrunch) [techcrunch.com]
(link is in the summary)
Essentially it appears your getting a couple of free CD's and paying a few dollars for shipping. In reality you get sent a bunch of stuff and billed $289.95 (they have your credit card details from the 4 dollar shipping charge) In theory there is a get out clause return one of the lessons within 10 days then you don't get billed but apparently thats not so easy to do.
Is it a scam? Well if you didn't intend to purchase $289.95 worth of cd's I'd say yes, because there is some text on the front page which says they will bill you $289.95 and its also hidden away in a bunch of small print they say no.
The order summary only mentions $4.56 shipping charges for 3 cd's
They target the gullible, computer novices who don't realize they are giving away access to their credit card.
Probably the only defense against this kind of abuse are one time credit cards but even then your credit score could take a bashing.
Parent
Re:Bad Summary (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Bad Summary (Score:5, Informative)
It's not a minor point in the article, it's the entire article. This [techcrunch.com] is the article, the other link in the summary was just an aside...
The article really takes video professor apart. It's a total scam and there's no more doubt about it.
Parent
Re:Bad Summary,Christmas sale, free shipping (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Is this the guy (Score:5, Informative)
Yes it is, but there are other Video CDs sent to the person who tries the product including charges made to the credit card.
His business is like a "Book of the Month" or "CD of the Month" type club where the first one is free (for a limited time and if you don't send it back you get charged for it, hence the "try" part of "try my product") and if you don't like it you can call and cancel it and send the CD back to avoid being charged for it.
Parent
Re:Is this the guy (Score:5, Interesting)
In Canada this is called 'negative option billing'
It has been illegal here for 10+years.
No more CD of the month clubs
Parent
Re:Is this the guy (Score:4, Informative)
Even the typical X of the month offer is much more clear about the terms and what it will cost. They typically tell you what you'll be charged up front and tell you what you'll need to do to avoid further charges. Those further charges are a little high, but not outrageously out of line with typical retail pricing. It's not the sort of offer I care to accept, but they at least tell you what you're getting in to.
With the Video Professor, I didn't know what the deal was at all until I read the various scam warnings. I had written it off as likely having some sort of catch, but I had no idea what.
I have seen a number of reports (some in this discussion) indicating that actually getting the CD returned and getting your refund is quite difficult as well.
Parent
Re:Is this the guy (Score:4, Funny)
"Hello, Video Professor? Hi yes, I'd like you to please send me the CD on how to setup and operate computer oriented scams please."
"What? You don't have that title? Could you please double-check? I'd swear I heard you has something like that... Yes, I'll hold thanks."
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:W-T-F? (Score:5, Funny)
Watch that Anti-Religious Bigotry. Religious people have civil rights too, you know.
Yeah, mocking/criticizing a group of people is an attack on their civil rights. Jesus, it's not like the post was advocating denying Christians the right to marry or something.
Parent
Re:W-T-F? (Score:5, Insightful)
It is bigoted to point out that someone believes in imaginary creatures?
Would it be bigoted if I claimed people who believed in unicorns were foolish?
Since when does anyone have the right not to be offended?
Parent
Re:W-T-F? (Score:5, Insightful)
A belief in fairy tales does not constitute a protected class. An African-American never chose to have black skin nor can they change that condition. A Christian can apply a modicum of critical thinking to remedy their condition.
In any other discussion, a willful disregard for scientific evidence will be appropriately mocked here on Slashdot. So why should believing that the earth is 6000 years old be any different? And why should believing anything from a book compiled for a purpose ~1700 years ago be any more reasonable that believing the myths of other primitive societies?
I've got nothing against people that believe there is a higher power, but you won't find a lot of Christians that believe just that without believing in all the provably false claims in the Bible. And even then, no one would give a rats ass about that belief too if Christians didn't have a nasty habit of trying to use those spurious beliefs to shape public policy and the annoying habit of trying to spread their critical thinking deficiency virus. I can't speak for the rest of the people who make clear their disdain for Christians, but for my part, they need only stop those two habits for me to stop caring about them entirely. They can go off into their own little corner and enjoy their wacky cult. But as long as people preach their bizarre beliefs and use them to justify insane public policy, it's the duty of every rational person to denounce them.
Parent
Re:W-T-F? (Score:5, Insightful)
And you are a fucking moron...the Civil Rights act protects your from being discriminated against in finding shelter, a job, etc. It does NOT protect you or your religious beliefs from criticism by others. THAT right is protected in the US Constitution, under the 1st Amendment of the Bill of Rights in the "Free Speech" clause.
The UN's declaration of rights includes the rights of Free Speech and belief....this means you should be able to believe whatever you want without fear of oppression by your government, and I have the right to mock you for your beliefs...again without fear of oppression by my government.
You sound like the typical "poor Christians getting oppressed" whiner when the truth is you can't stand the idea that others also get to express their beliefs and opinions which include disdain for your beliefs. Go whine to the ACLJ and see how successful you are in a law suit. I'll talk to the ACLU to assist in defending my 1st Amendment rights against your claims.
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