Book Reviews
Recent reviews from Slashdot readers:
- Advanced Excel for Scientific Data Analysis Learn to turn Excel into something that rivals Mathematica using VBA, brains, and a heaping helping of fortitude.(Jack Herrington's review.)
- Nagios 3 Enterprise Network Monitoring A great book for anyone using Nagios as more than a casual user.(jgoguen's review.)
- Schneier on Security Schneier argues that security is not something you can buy; it is something you must get.(Ben Rothke's review.)
Submitting a review for consideration is easy; please first read Slashdot's book review guidelines. Updated: 2008114 by samzenpus
5259031
story
Comments: 160 +- Microsoft Backs Down On Making IE8 Default At Upgrade on Monday July 20 2009, @07:44AM
background: url(//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/topicms.gif); width:75px; height:55px;
microsoft
Barence writes "Internet Explorer 8 will no longer replace the default browser when a user selects the 'Use express settings' option during installation. Back in May, Mozilla and Opera accused Microsoft of force-feeding users Internet Explorer 8 through the Automatic Updates process. The object of their ire was the 'Use express settings' option which automatically sets Internet Explorer 8 as the default browser. The option was already ticked when Automatic Updates offered users the choice to upgrade their browser. 'We heard a lot of feedback from a lot of different people and groups and decided to make the user choice of the default browser even more explicit,' notes Microsoft in a blog post."
Related Stories
It is sweet to let the mind unbend on occasion.
-- Quintus Horatius Flaccus (Horace)
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Comments are owned by the Poster. The Rest © 1997-2010 Geeknet, Inc.
What crap... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:What crap... (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
I'm lazy. My Windows menu (formerly Start menu) has my default Internet browser at the top, and that's what I usually use to launch it, rather than hunting for it on my Desktop or All Programs menu.
It's a known location that's in the same spot regardless of whether I'm using XP at work or Vista/7 at home.
Re: (Score:2)
Hell, you can manually drag the icon there if you're really that lazy.
Remember, it's not being lazy to leave the icon where it is and work harder every time; It's being lazy to move to where it causes the least work.
Re: (Score:2)
I just right click pretty much anywhere and hit Firefox. Openbox is wonderful. I don't need to worry about pinning, plopping or any of that. ;)
[though I will admit that it took a minute or two of my life to get it setup right, but now that's out of the way...]
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Isn't half the point of a computer that you don't need to pay such a price for being lazy?
Re:What crap... (Score:5, Informative)
The reason why it's acceptable that Firefox, Opera etc does this is because the user chose to download the browser. However, since MS pushed IE8 as a critical update through their automatic update service the user doesn't really have much choice. I accept the set as default using express if the user downloads IE8 as a separate download. But through an automatic update? No.
Parent
Re:What crap... (Score:5, Insightful)
However, since MS pushed IE8 as a critical update through their automatic update service the user doesn't really have much choice
It's slightly more subtle than that. A forced upgrade from IE7 to IE8 doesn't seem much of an issue to me. It defaulting to changing itself to being the default browser doesn't rattle me too much either (though it does annoy me). What really gets to me is the fact that such a huge change in user preferences is "hidden" behind a "use express settings" tick box.
Parent
Re:What crap... (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
I think they did drop that, because I recently switched to IE8, but keep FF to make sure my web pages work with it. I remember having to tell it NOT to "ensure it was the default" and switch the default back to IE8.
Re:What crap... (Score:5, Insightful)
"The reason why it's acceptable that Firefox, Opera etc does this is because the user chose to download the browser."
You're using a double standard here. I downloaded Google Chrome so I could go and try it out. Give it the benefit of the doubt, and so forth. I didn't need it to be my default browser any more than I needed Opera to be my default browser when I decided to try it out.
Certainly its easy to fix this. Most of the browsers will demand to be set as the default browser when you open them, but this is a conversation for the new and inexperienced users who don't know how to change that. If they did download Chrome (because Google is pushing chrome aggressively on every page) having it be the default browser could be a huge learning curve.
Now, I'm all for making users learn something, but eventually they end up calling you on the phone and demand you make it work right.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Ironically the media player wars were exactly about this. Real would become the default player for all sorts of formats, then Quicktime would, and so on. Someone must have learnt their lesson, because these days Real and Windows Media Player play nice, not too sure what Quicktime does (not installed it in some time).
If the media player vendors can learn, why not the browser? And yes, I don't buy the argument that anyone downloading Firefox is looking to make it his default browser. I download Opera and Chro
Re:What crap... (Score:5, Insightful)
IMO, the reason why it's unacceptable is because this is a freaking upgrade. The preference is already set to whichever browser the user favors, why should it be reset ? The existing choice should be left alone.
If it's a fresh installation, fine go ahead and toggle it by default, that's a good way to minimize user confusion ("I just installed Thingy 8, where the hell is it?"). If it's an upgrade, just replace those damned files and leave my settings the way they are.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
If it's a fresh installation, fine go ahead and toggle it by default, that's a good way to minimize user confusion ("I just installed Thingy 8, where the hell is it?"). If it's an upgrade, just replace those damned files and leave my settings the way they are.
IE can't be a fresh installation (on XP or Vista), because everyone already has IE installed. If someone has IE7 installed but never uses it because their default browser is Firefox, and one day they decide they want to ditch Firefox and switch to IE8, they should be presented with the option to make IE8 their default browser, even though it's technically an upgrade.
However, until now, instead of asking whether you want to set IE as your default browser, the IE installer was instead asking "hey, do you wan
Re: (Score:2)
The difference is that Microsoft wasn't giving you an option. When you start IE 8 for the first time, if you choose "Express Setup" rather than "Custom," it makes IE the default--and not only does it not give you an option, it doesn't even tell you that it's going to make it default, either.
This update addresses this issue by including a "Make IE default browser" checkbox right under the "Express Setup" radio button. It's still checked by default (as it is for most browsers), but at least you can't say you
Re:What crap... (Score:5, Informative)
Under the "Use Express Settings" header it listed everything that would be set. One of the items was "Default Browser: Internet Explorer" (note that it only had this text if IE wasn't already the default). The IE blog has screenshots of this behavior: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2009/05/01/ie8-installation-the-user-is-in-control.aspx [msdn.com]
Since that post was written, they've decided to move the default browser page out of the express settings and require users to make a choice (unless IE is already their default browser). You'll notice that the user really does have to make a choice as no option is selected by default (the 'Next' button is disabled until they choose 'Yes' or 'No'). Here's the IE blog post with screenshots of the new behavior, since Slashdot didn't link to it directly: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2009/07/16/changes-to-ie8-s-first-run.aspx [msdn.com]
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
When you installed Firefox, you specifically sought out the installer, downloaded it and ran it. It's quite a reasonable assumption there that you'd like to use it as your default browser.
I disagree. A browser installation or upgrade should always ask whether you want your default browser changed.
I would expect Mozilla also to agree with this, so I doubt that other poster's claim that FF3.5 presumes to make itself the default browser [slashdot.org] and would like to see that claim substantiated.
The first thing I do (Score:2)
when installing a new system, be it server or my own machine, is to hide IE7+8 from the listed updates.
Of course with Windws 7 I've had no choice ;)
Yes you did (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You're opening yourself up to vulnerabilities in the browser control used by various programs like Winamp, RealPlayer etc. What's so bad about keeping IE up to date while you use your favorite browser? I bet millions of geeks do that with no problem.
What? (Score:5, Insightful)
Surely the problem was that the update changed the default browser, not that it upgraded the non-default one.
Usually Microsoft's actions are fairly transparent, but I really can't understand what they are trying to achieve with this policy
Re: (Score:2)
Personally, I don't see why an application is setting itself as the default anyway. That should be left up to the user and the OS.
Not Uncommon (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm willing to let this one slip... (Score:4, Insightful)
...if it helps continue the death of IE6
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
They stopped trying to force IE8 in May? (Score:2, Interesting)
I did a fresh install of 7 recently (June 10th) after some tweaking of my system rendered it unstable. (not the point of the post, just background on why I did the reinstall)
I did the Windows 7 clean install, loaded my drivers, and activated it.
Grabbed the normal updates and, during that process, I right clicked the automatic update entry for IE8 and selected "Hide Update" because I choose not to load the IE8 software.
Now with patches loaded, I go back to see if any of the patches needed patching. I go back
Windows 7 includes IE8... (Score:5, Informative)
Are you retarded, or a troll?
IE8 is included in Windows 7.
Parent
Re:They stopped trying to force IE8 in May? (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Not Robinson Crusoe On This Score (Score:2)
Uninstall plz (Score:2, Interesting)
I want to uninstall IE6 and IE7 before i install IE8 bloat.
IE8 crash more often then IE6 and IE7 put together. It's wrong
to force that on n00bs. They have hard time as it is.
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Setup\7.0]
"DoNotAllowIE70"=dword:1
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Setup\8.0]
"DoNotAllowIE80"=dword:1
I'm temped to add 9.0 too to avoid future nag...
Things like these and WGA spyware is why i dont run WindowsUpdate.
I'm also thinking of redirecting IE shortc
Service Packs required IE8 too for Vista! (Score:3, Interesting)
Since IE8 was considered a critical update and service packs require ALL critical updates, users have no choice to get IE8 to be able to upgrade with a service pack via Windows Update in Vista. :(
Re:Browsers War (Score:4, Insightful)
And then you just leave yourself with outdated and potentially bug-riddled software still installed on your machine. The better option would be to remove IE completely if you don't use it, but that's obviously not possible ;)
Parent
Re:Browsers War (Score:5, Interesting)
All my machines went to IE8, even though I use Firefox as my browser of choice. Three reasons:
1: Security. You always want stuff that handles protentially hostile code as updated as possible. IE6 was made for the security threats of 2001. IE8 is made for far more current threats. Nothing is perfect, but IE has gotten a lot better as times have gone on. It has decent clickjacking protection, and seems to have had done a good job in standing up to NSS Labs's security tests.
2: Features. Auto-zapping all history and cache, and InPrivate browsing make it decently usable for those sites which require IE, or don't work well with Firefox.
3: Compatibility mode. There are some sites which still assume that everyone is going to be using IE6 for the forseeable future.
Parent
Re:Browsers War (Score:5, Funny)
Kindly fall into line behind the blind F/OSS advocates to add your X to the list of people who think Microsoft is bad like the rest of the sheep without considering any alternate opinion! Your valid reasoning is not welcome here.
Parent
Re:Browsers War (Score:5, Funny)
Since the "whoosh" meme is a bit played out, I'll try a different one: ::Toooooooooooooot::
Hear that? That's the sound of you missing the boat.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
1: Security.
QFT.
I am finding I'm running into many applications that use embedded IE to access the internet. Two off the top of my head are Steam and Darkfall Online - Steam of course uses it for its store, community pages, and in-game overlay's web browser, while Darkfall used a horribly implemented system for its journal, clan pages etc.
There are many others, and if you're using one which happens to stumble upon a compromised site you'd be better off with a newer IE, I'd think.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
on wine AFAIK, you don't actually need to install IE to get steam working, there is some sort of hack to get it working using gecko! can this be done on windows? OFC if embedded IE uses IE6bugs then IE8 with compatibility mode is probably your only choice,
Re: (Score:2)
Heck, I have applications on my machine that use IE as their display engine (I guess). So when IE gets upgraded, my scanner software stops working. Finally HP addressed it with a patch so it'd use IE 8 but it was annoying for a bit that I couldn't use the HP software to change the default settings.
[John]
Re:Browsers War (Score:5, Interesting)
If you don't use IE do not upgrade it and it won't change your default browser
Or you can update it and just be sure to uncheck the "default browser" option. I realize that not everyone knows how to do that but its not one of the harder things to change.
I do find it funny though that all of these companies are essentially fighting over the users ignorant of how to do such things. I suppose it makes sense in a way, if you can snag the majority of these people, you'll have them for ages AND you'll never have to give them new features because they won't understand how to use them anyways. They'll be endlessly happy with whatever you throw at them as long as it doesn't complicate things any more for them and still lets them access the internet.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
And being clueless, they're far more likely to click on an advertisement, thinking it's a legitimate search result. Which company wouldn't want them using their own browser!? ;D
"In this case, we are afraid to be evil." (Score:3, Insightful)
Google: Don't do evil.
Microsoft: Evil for profit.
Google: It's finished, but we call it beta.
Microsoft: It's beta, but we call it finished. (All of our customers are part of our beta test team.)
"Internet Explorer 8 will no longer replace the default browser when a user selects the 'Use express settings' option during installation.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
But we are afraid of another anti-trust investigation.
Perhaps I'm paranoid, perhaps I'm a fanboy, perhaps I love spreading FUD, or perhaps I've never heard anything from Microsoft that ever even remotely sounded like this:
We heard a lot of feedback from a lot of different people and groups and decided to make the user choice of the default browser even more explicit
Something just doesn't sound right, and I doubt I'm the only one feeling that.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Biggest OS retailer on PCs. Ignoring the notion that a mac isn't a PC (are modern 'PCs' any closer to an IBM PC than a wintel mac?), MS do have the vast bulk of the market on desktop and laptop personal computers.
This is where they have a monopoly. The issue, in general, though, is less that they have the monopoly than that they abuse the fact they have one.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
apple absolutely has used their "monopoly" on ipods to gain a market. In this case it's online distribution of music.
Apple and toyota seem to have a halo around them, they are still publicly traded corporations, and at their core are just the same as MS or any other business.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
While neither a lover of Microsoft or Apple, calling Apple a monopoly is simply ludicrous. They hold about 3% of the global PC market (~7.7% in the US), 1% of the global cell phone market, and by some estimates about 23% of the Personal Digital Music Player market (Source: http://tinyurl.com/nm3m4n [tinyurl.com]). Certainly not a monopoly in any of the markets. Microsoft on the other hand has ~90% global market share.
As far as why Apple is not abusing monopoly laws with their iTunes software as it relates to the iPo
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Remember "monopoly" does not mean "highest marketshare." per se. From dictionary.com:
MS has a monopoly (as determined by a US court) on OS for Intel