Microsoft Brings Back DRM 414
Barence writes "Microsoft yesterday unveiled its MSN Mobile Music service — and a surprise return to digital rights management (DRM). While companies such as Apple and Amazon have finally moved to music download services free of copy protection, MSN Mobile locks tracks to the mobile handset they are downloaded to. It also charges more than the other services per track, and offers no way to transfer your tracks to your new phone when you upgrade. The company's Head of Mobile UK spoke to PC Pro about the launch, but his answers are almost as baffling as the service itself. Best quote: Q: 'If I buy these songs on your service — and they're locked to my phone — what happens when I upgrade my phone in six months' time?' A: 'Well, I think you know the answer to that.'"
Clueless (Score:5, Insightful)
So many great quotes from a certain Hugh Griffiths, Head of Mobile at Microsoft UK:
We'll be looking to enhance the service if we get some interest from consumers
PR101: Don't tell journalists that no one cares about your product.
At the moment we don't have the functionality in-house to provide a mechanism for transferring between mobile phones and PC
CS101: Microsoft doesn't have the technology in-house to do a simple file transfer?
I didn't realise phones were churning that quickly in the marketplace these days
How clueless can you be? This guy almost makes me feel good about the other news of the day (Microsoft to laying off 5,000).
I suspect a Microsoft conspiracy to reassure their shareholders that indeed, getting rid of deadwood will not hurt business, on the contrary! He is a living proof (assuming he is one of the "chosen").
--
FairSoftware.net [fairsoftware.net] -- where geeks are their own boss
Re:Clueless (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually I read it as more arrogant than clueless, or perhaps hostile would be the word. He definately didn't defend as much as say "Yeah, we don't care" to most of the questions.
Re:Clueless (Score:5, Funny)
He definately didn't defend as much as say "Yeah, we don't care" to most of the questions.
To my ears it sounded a little different. It was more like, "We don't know what we're doing, we're semi-incompetent, and I'm generally unprepared for your questions, but maybe we'll figure this out before the project gets abandoned."
Re:Clueless (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Clueless (Score:5, Funny)
Q: If I buy these songs on your service - and they're locked to my phone - what happens when I upgrade my phone in six months' time?
A: Well, I think you know the answer to that.
Hmmm
Q: If you try to run a business with your services and business model as they are now, what will happen to them in six months time?
A: I think you know the answer to that."
There, fixed it for you.
Re:Clueless (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, maybe I'm way off but to me it came across mostly like this:
"We're doing this mainly so we can put a little checkmark in the box for 'includes MP3 download service'. We don't really care if it's profitable or not, or how well people like it, or even really whether they use it or not. It's one more thing we can add to the list of features, and that's all we really care about."
Re:Clueless (Score:5, Insightful)
Some people go to community colleges for reasons other than "being idiots". Like, for example, saving money, staying near home, etc etc. Nor are they all terrible educational institutions, especially not for freshman and sophomore classes.
Careful with the elitism, it interferes with the meat of your message. Having taken classes both at community colleges and at a quite prestigious science school, I can tell you there is a difference in quality of instruction available, but it is dwarfed by the difference in the students who take advantage of their opportunities and those who do not.
Aside from that last line, I agree completely.
Re:Clueless (Score:4, Insightful)
Even if that were the case, he was still a dumbass -- if you don't care, then don't give an interview!
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Re:Clueless (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Clueless (Score:5, Funny)
All I can say is... Wow... What the heck? Was this a joke or did he really say those things?
This sounds like something you would see on Futurama.
A reporter talking to Mom talking about Moms Music Network.
"If I buy these songs on your service - and they're locked to my phone - what happens when I upgrade my phone in six months' time?"
Mom: "Well, I think you know the answer to that."
Bender; "Your boned!"
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
He's real enough:
http://www.nma.co.uk/Articles/33040/Hugh+Griffiths+to+head+up+mobile+at+MSN.html [nma.co.uk]
Interestingly he's responsible for i-mode at O2, and we all know how much of an impact that made...
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
He's real enough:
http://www.nma.co.uk/Articles/33040/Hugh+Griffiths+to+head+up+mobile+at+MSN.html [nma.co.uk]
Interestingly he's responsible for i-mode at O2, and we all know how much of an impact that made...
Hey, I had an iMode phone! I even met someone else with one once.
It was great, because every month they'd extend the free email + browsing trial by another month, presumably in an effort to get more subscribers. Except the phone was a bit crap (N343i) with poor reception and a low battery life. Still, I was annoyed when I "dropped" it in a pint of cider. It did manage to sent an MMS while submerged though. But it was the last message it sent :-(.
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Re:Clueless (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Clueless (Score:5, Funny)
Just wait until you try to play music on it.
Clue to Mods: (Score:4, Funny)
Anecdote != flamebait
Re:Clueless (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Clueless (Score:4, Informative)
He has a Zune, and he's not afraid to use it!
Re:Clueless (Score:5, Informative)
No! MS is working FOR US! (Score:5, Funny)
You missed the most obvious explanation!
MS went to the labels and told them, hey, we want to sell mp3's to users. The labels responded sure, but you have to use DRM since you are so good at it (wink wink nudge nudge), besides we would otherwise have to charge you more (since users would actually be buying content instead of some limited rent). MS says, we don't think the users will like this DRM, but we will give it a try. So, they come up with the most incredibly stupid DRM business plan in history (after the gnomes' attempt to DRM underpants), to prove to the labels, once and for all, that DRM cannot work!!!!
Amazing huh?
I am not being funny here, if you look at the IQ bell curve, you will see that this scenario is more likely than the alternate of finding a guy with a 69 IQ to head an MS department!
Yes, I know they found one to head an entire nation a few years ago, but that does not improve the chances!
Re:Clueless (Score:5, Interesting)
">I didn't realise phones were churning that quickly in the marketplace these days
How clueless can you be? This guy almost makes me feel good about the other news of the day (Microsoft to laying off 5,000)."
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This jumped out at me as well. I suspect he was being both sarcastic and a little clueless. That was one of the last questions that was asked, many of them questioning the business model, pricing, DRM. This guy was looking for the "gee, what an exciting service!" kind of non-question. I suspect he was fed up with the questioner by this point.
I'm assuming he must understand the churn rate for phone, right? It's probably more than a year, less than two. But I can't imagine he would expect people to pay about $3.50 (1.79 pounds) for songs to throw away; at least he couldn't expect people to buy many songs at this price.
Perhaps he's counting on the phones being so locked down that you must buy the songs from MS?
Re:Clueless (Score:5, Interesting)
Man it really is as bad as the summary makes it.
With the likes of iTunes and Amazon offering DRM-free music that you can play on any device, why would anyone choose the MSN Mobile service?
There may well be people who just want to listen to the track on their mobile alone.
Yeah and there may well be people with severe OCD who purchase music from your store and then immediately delete it because the bits didn't download in the right order, but I wouldn't bet the farm on chasing that demographic.
Jesus, they seem to be basing the whole thing on the hope that they can trick people into thinking they have to buy music from the MSN store if they have a Windows Mobile device. What the hell is that shit about "loyal to MSN". What? If anyone uses MSN it's because it came up by default in IE and they're too stupid to figure out how to change it. My mom might use MSN, but you can be damn sure she's not going to be buying music for her mobile phone anytime soon. Way to know your audience there pal.
Good grief, someone needs to post a 24 hour guard by this guy, Ballmer is going to disappear his ass posthaste.
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Good grief, someone needs to post a 24 hour guard by this guy, Ballmer is going to disappear his ass posthaste.
Well, you are making the assumption that this arrogance does not exist in the higher ranks. I personally feel that Microsoft is occupied by too many people out of touch with reality. Mind you there are departments that seem to slowly be seeing the light outside of their ivory tower, some of these including those working on IE8 and Microsoft office.
Any large company does this (Score:5, Funny)
Well, you are making the assumption that this arrogance does not exist in the higher ranks. I personally feel that Microsoft is occupied by too many people out of touch with reality.
I just had a two day meeting with a client who represents a large medical company.
A two day meeting to tell me how much of a hurry he's in.
Large companies seem to infect people with this sort of brain rot.
Re:Clueless (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm no PR guy, I'm an engineer. And if I were put into Hugh Griffiths' shoes, I'm not so sure I'd have answered the questions any differently. He knows the product sucks: It's more expensive, non-transferable, and behind the times technically. He's probably IMMENSELY frustrated that they could only release this crap given the building products they have to work with. So, he grits his teeth, does an interview, and does his best to not say anything negative. But you can just tell he's disappointed.
If I were him, actually, I wouldn't have done the interview. That's probably his big mistake.
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He's probably IMMENSELY frustrated that they could only release this crap given the building products they have to work with.
So, what you're saying is that no matter how bad the product is, Microsoft feels they must release it to the public.
Makes sense, and it explains Vista quite nicely.
Re:Clueless (Score:5, Funny)
You see it as a toe in the water, Hugh Griffith. We see it as a chair up your ass.
Re:Clueless (Score:5, Insightful)
How clueless can you be? This guy almost makes me feel good about the other news of the day (Microsoft to laying off 5,000).
What you lack is perspective. You see, the whole time the individual was thinking "fuck you." But he managed to come up with different answers. See? There's a marked improvement if you understand all the variables in play.
Re:Clueless - Including Ballmer (Score:3, Interesting)
Here are some of Ballmer's comments from a conference call with analysts:
* "We think we have taken the right degree of action in terms of reducing the cost base."
* "We are taking out somewhere between 5 percent and 15 percent of the cost line... which we think, in this environment relative to the reset in the economy, is probably the right level."
* "Our model is not for a quick rebound (in PC sales)."
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It actually seemed to me more like he was saddled with this dog of a project and is hoping it dies quickly so he can move on to something that might actually have wings. It seemed he knew they were years behind their competitors and that they didn't really have a viable plan, but that his hands were tied and that it was probably some pet project of a higher-up, or some commitment that Microsoft had made years ago that they were bringing to market for no other reason than they had contractual obligations wi
!surprise (Score:3, Insightful)
seriously, who is really surprised microsoft did this? sure other companies (itunes/amazon) got smart and are moving away from the DRMs, but it's not surprising at all to see MS stick with it.
Re:!surprise (Score:5, Insightful)
Lock-in has worked pretty well for Microsoft so far. They have no motivation to change strategies. They will have to suffer a near-death experience before they will actually pay attention to what the user wants and what the market is delivering.
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Unfortunately (for the customer), Microsoft's relationship with music provides one of the single best examples of why DRM simply does not work: PlaysForSure.
Re:!surprise (Score:4, Insightful)
Lock-in has worked pretty well for Microsoft so far. They have no motivation to change strategies.
Problem is this isn't lock in. Not in the traditional sense at least. If they had said, "you can only transfer songs to another Microsoft enabled phone." That would be lock in. The user will want to keep buying Microsoft phones to keep their music. By nuking the music when you get rid of the phone there is no incentive to buy another Microsoft phone.
And yes, the person may be locked in to using a particular phone, but that doesn't work either because now the person isn't buying any new phones (with new Micrsoft OS licenses to go with them).
I guess you could argue that the phones OS is the lock-in factor and they are milking that. You want a MS phone? Be prepared to buy all your music again. But that is a dangerous strategy when there are plenty of healthy platforms still competing.
Re:!surprise (Score:4, Funny)
Another Bomb Here to Stay (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple and Amazon have finally moved to music download services free of copy protection
I'm sorry, I was under the impression that Amazon's music service has always been DRM free. Could you please point me to a source showing that their service was ever under DRM? Did they offer a music service before Amazon MP3 [businesswire.com]?
...
I don't know why everyone got excited when Apple went DRM-free, I've been buying DRM free MP3 singles from Amazon for over a year.
I don't think Microsoft is alone in their cling-to-DRM mentality. I think this will bomb but does it really even matter? It's just going to be another Zune/XBox bomb all over again offset by their other divisions so it's here to stay whether the market & investors say it should be or not. Oh well, if they want to lose money, let 'em. It does take more work for me to put my MP3s on my phone, maybe joe consumer won't put up with that and live with the DRM? We'll see after an upgrade though
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Xbox bomb? The XBox and 360 are actually doing pretty well. Now the Zune... Well now that ITunes is going DRM free the Zune is even less interesting.
Too bad really. Competition is usually a good thing.
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Well now that ITunes is going DRM free the Zune is even less interesting.
Why? I think the Zune is more interesting now that iTunes is DRM-free. Now you can buy songs from iTunes and play them on your Zune.
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Xbox bomb? The XBox and 360 are actually doing pretty well. Now the Zune... Well now that ITunes is going DRM free the Zune is even less interesting. Too bad really. Competition is usually a good thing.
I was talking about how if any other company had entered the console market in the fashion that Microsoft did, they would have sank faster than the Titanic. Microsoft threw it's weight around and took losses heavily. You may argue that all console makers do but not on this level [bbc.co.uk]. Let me quote the BBC for you:
For the first time Microsoft is revealing how much money it is losing on its Xbox game console.
Documents filed with the US financial watchdog show that Microsoft's Home and Entertainment division, which includes the Xbox, lost $177m in the three months to 30 September.
Since the Xbox was launched Microsoft has been forced to cut its price twice to boost sales.
The documents also reveal that four of the seven divisions of the company are operating at a loss.
For a while they were just burning money there. I'm not saying it's a bad or inferior console, I am impressed with the Xbox360 but I will stand by my statement that the initial offering of the Xbox
Re:Another Bomb Here to Stay (Score:5, Insightful)
The 360 is only doing well because Microsoft actually has a very good product. Of course the did a lot of the ground work with the original XBox.
1. They have the best online system. Sony's is a bad joke and Nintendo's is very limited.
2. They made very good Developer tools.
3. They made a great game franchise "Halo"
4. Now they are embracing Netflix for movie downloads which is frankly brilliant and so not like Microsoft.
5. They now have the lowest entry point with the Arcade.
Even then they are in second place to Nintendo. Frankly the 360 beats the Wii in power, and online. The Wii is doing so well because of the controls and the great first party software from Nintendo.
If any thing Microsoft showed a large chunk of effort, humility, and innovation in the game console market.
The exact opposite of their standard business practices.
Halo makes me cry (Score:4, Informative)
It was originally a PC title that had been under development for 3+ years (I was following a lot of articles about it) that was meant to be something close to planetside in scope. It was going to be the Ultimate pc multiplayer shooter and you can see the potential with the vehicle combat and really well balanced weapons. Then it got stuck on a console forever when bungee ran out of money and MS swooped in seeing the potential of the franchise.
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PC *and Mac* title. Bungie was known for their excellent Mac support...before. PCs eventually got Halo.
Re:Halo makes me cry (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, Halo was bound for the Mac and not the PC, as Bungie was a Mac game maker.
(long time Bungie fans correct me if I'm wrong)
Re:Another Bomb Here to Stay (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Another Bomb Here to Stay (Score:4, Informative)
I'm sure there are others, but the only experience I have with PS3 is trying to get updates for the system for my family (30 minute download for every patch, regardless of size, over ethernet) And trying to play online with Rock Band 2 (spotty connection issues) and Little Big Planet (never been able to join someone else's game online, but have tried some downloaded levels). MGS4 had, what, 3 different logons/passwords? Resistance 2 has it's own friends list that isn't shared anywhere else? I know this is the developers making these bad decisions, but XBL at least says "No, don't be dumb... Why do you have 3 logins?"
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Never had any PSN stability issues. I have a good connection at home so maybe that's it.
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The single most annoying thing about xbox live is getting kicked out when it detects an update for a game. It doesn't even wait until you accept the update, it just cuts you in the middle of your voice chat.
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Xbox has sold a lot, but it hasn't turned a profit- in fact it's billions of dollars into the red. So yes, that's a bomb.
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Yeah, I don't know the numbers, but consoles often sell at a loss for several years in the hopes of making money in the long run. Any hopes of turning profitable must have been set off a while by the extremely high defective-rate for 360s (at one point, I heard the number 16%), which has caused them to spend buttloads of money replacing defective units.
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How much are they making on XBox live?
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Well now that ITunes is going DRM free the Zune is even less interesting.
Too bad really. Competition is usually a good thing.
Do you think Apple would have pushed so hard for unlocking iTunes if their player was the only one on the market?
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Even longer (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know why everyone got excited when Apple went DRM-free, I've been buying DRM free MP3 singles from Amazon for over a year.
Well since Apple was actually selling DRM free music from major labels with iTunes Plus even BEFORE the Amazon store opened, I agree with your surprise.
When EMI finally broke the stranglehold on DRM by agreeing to a DRM free iTunes presence, the other studios decided to try and break Apple by agreeing to all be in the Amazon store. It didn't really work out for them but eventually it worked out for the rest of us, in a way that companies like eMusic had not managed prior.
I don't think Microsoft is alone in their cling-to-DRM mentality.
The real question is, how much are labels still clinging to DRM? They are the only ones that really matter in the end. The agreement for all of them to sell DRM free music in more than one store was a watershed moment, but is this weird Microsoft arrangement something that had already been in the works or is it some new backsliding?
Re:Even longer (Score:5, Insightful)
The real question is, how much are labels still clinging to DRM?
I, for one, hope they stick with Dumb Restrictions on Media. DRM is a sick joke, and DRM music can do nothing but doom them further.
The RIAA labels are no longer needed by anybody. Twenty years ago the price of the tech was so high the artists NEEDED a label. Now every bar band in the country has a CD, and there are a lot of very good ones.
When we are free of RIAA labels and they and the RIAA are dead, the independant bands and labels will get a chance to get radio airplay.
For every RIAA CD there are 100 indie CDs. For every RIAA hit there are 100 excellent indie tunes you never heard. I, for one, want the indies to get airplay, and it won't happen until the buggy whip manufacturers are dead and gone.
Re:Another Bomb Here to Stay (Score:5, Informative)
Apple and Amazon have finally moved to music download services free of copy protection
I'm sorry, I was under the impression that Amazon's music service has always been DRM free.
Well if you want to pick nits, nobody explicitly said Amazon ever had DRM on their music download store. You could argue that Amazon has "moved to music download services free of copy protection" in that they moved into music download services, and those services don't use DRM.
I don't know why everyone got excited when Apple went DRM-free, I've been buying DRM free MP3 singles from Amazon for over a year.
Is it possible that you're just a bit touchy about people hyping Apple? I mean, we could debate the importance of iTunes dropping DRM on all songs, but they are the biggest music retailer in the US (including brick&mortar stores). That alone seems enough to make the transition noteworthy.
Anyway, you're right that DRM isn't dead yet. Amazon, Apple, and Netflix are still using DRM on video, AFAIK. Also, Microsoft *needs* DRM to stay alive in order to keep WMA alive. Ignoring issues related to DRM, what's the point of using WMA when you have the option of AAC or MP3?
Re:Another Bomb Here to Stay (Score:4, Insightful)
Well if you want to pick nits, nobody explicitly said Amazon ever had DRM on their music download store. You could argue that Amazon has "moved to music download services free of copy protection" in that they moved into music download services, and those services don't use DRM.
Are you serious? That would be like if I was introduced to my friend's new girlfriend and I said "Hey, Al, I see Peter and you have moved to dating girls that don't have herpes!"
Oh, if anyone wanted to nitpick I could just say that I mean Al is now dating women and Peter is the one who used to date someone with herpes. Ridiculous. That sentence makes it sound like Amazon used to have DRM and they got smart and moved away from it. To my knowledge, they've always offered me DRM free MP3s. I don't even think you can have DRM on MP3s making Amazon MP3 DRM free!
Is it possible that you're just a bit touchy about people hyping Apple?
Is it possible that I have a personal bias against iTunes? Yes. Yes it is. No Linux support (Amazon runs fine on it), a bloated program that makes me install QuickTime, it reindexes, doesn't let me transfer songs on iPods, wastes CPU, installs a Windows Service, etc. I could go on for hours. And then a family member calls me wondering why her computer runs so damned slow and why she can't have 1000+ songs in iTunes.
iTunes is horrible in my opinion and it gets all the press and love and there are other options out there (like Amazon + Amarok). Yeah, sorry about the bitchy rant but you asked me about it.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Are you serious? That would be like if I was introduced to my friend's new girlfriend and I said "Hey, Al, I see Peter and you have moved to dating girls that don't have herpes!"
Maybe more like saying "eldavojohn, I hear you've moved to dating girls who don't have herpes!" and you replying, "I never dated women with herpes before! I've only dated men with herpes!" You'd have a valid objection there, but one could argue that my statement wasn't "misleading" so much as "ambiguous".
Yeah, sorry about the bitchy rant but you asked me about it.
Well... actually I didn't ask you whether you liked iTunes. I really only asked whether you might be touchy about Apple. But you know, it's fine. I can appreciate that you don't like iTunes. I wouldn'
Re:Another Bomb Here to Stay (Score:5, Informative)
Amazon only works in the US. From a how-many-people-are-you-leaving-out that's far worse than not working on Linux.
Re:Another Bomb Here to Stay (Score:4, Informative)
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That isn't true.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/ [amazon.co.uk]
http://www.amazon.de/ [amazon.de]
http://www.amazon.fr/ [amazon.fr]
http://www.amazon.co.jp/ [amazon.co.jp]
http://www.amazon.ca/ [amazon.ca]
I only checked the first few, but they all have music stores.
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I use their one click album purchase. Most albums are $9.99.I've found that if I order multiple albums within several minutes of each other that all go on one CC transaction. Then, of course, I burn my wife a copy.
I don't know if they support the Mac. They should!
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i think you're right, actually (not entirely sure, though).
Now if only Amazon's "Audible" service would ditch DRM we'd be in good shape.
Microsoft Mobile DRM, eh? Maybe they're planning to cough up a "Zune Phone" after all...
Re:Another Bomb Here to Stay (Score:5, Funny)
Cough up? I think you mean "squirt out"?
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Some might say that while Amazon never moved their music service away from DRM (since it never had DRM in the first place), their opening of a music service without DRM could be considered a move away from DRM from Amazon since Unbox (Their movie service) has (or at least had) some pretty nasty DRM and existed for at least a year or two before Amazon MP3.
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I don't know why everyone got excited when Apple went DRM-free, I've been buying DRM free MP3 singles from Amazon for over a year.
Well, you probably didn't know that Amazon MP3 store is not available for "The rest of the world".
Amazon MP3 store means nothing to people outside the USA (that's a bounch of people!).
I happen to live outside the USA and that's the reason why I am very excited about iTunes going DRM free.
Re:Another Bomb Here to Stay (Score:5, Insightful)
And because their target audience seems to be people who are not aware that there isa non-microsoft choice (ie msn mobile users who will use whatever their phone comes with), competition doesn't help much.
Enough already (Score:2, Funny)
Slashdot is a Microsoft shill....
Summary (Score:5, Informative)
"We're looking to gouge customers who are too stupid to look elsewhere."
Re: (Score:2)
"We're looking to gouge customers who are too stupid to look elsewhere."
Well someone has to look after them ;)
OMG (Score:5, Funny)
I'm trying to think of something witty to put here but I can't stop laughing long enough to breathe. Almost everything I come up with starts with In Soviet Russia.....
On the day Microsoft announces layoffs..... (Score:4, Interesting)
....you get morons sitting around a conference table convincing themselves that this is a good a idea. Microsoft reports revenue shortfalls because of wasteful, stupid ideas like this.
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So... (Score:3, Insightful)
This is the kinder, gentler Microsoft we heard about just yesterday?
Hilarious... (Score:5, Interesting)
This guy's answers are hilarious. They only make sense in a universe where everything is inherently locked down, and your customers are idiots to be abused.
You don't really have to provide a "mechanism" if you just left the system open. If the files were non-DRM and the phone had an open interface (e.g. you plug in a USB cable and can browse/transfer files on it), then the transferring step is trivial.
Which, again, would be trivially easy with an open system. If the phone were open, I could download a track from Amazon and put it on my phone. So the only reason to use the MSN service is "because of lock-in."
And in response to the question:
Wow. Just... wow. That's impressive market research on their part. They are not sure how long people keep their cellphones. And they see no issue with requiring digital files to expire whenever the hardware does.
This overpriced and highly restricted product has a clear future ahead...
Re:Hilarious... (Score:5, Interesting)
You don't really have to provide a "mechanism" if you just left the system open. If the files were non-DRM and the phone had an open interface (e.g. you plug in a USB cable and can browse/transfer files on it), then the transferring step is trivial.
Not only that, but you're talking about Microsoft-- the company that makes the desktop OS on most PCs as well as the OS on a good percentage of smartphones. If they can't make a mechanism work on to sync between their own desktop OS and their own phone OS, they're pretty well f*#$ed.
Wow. Just... wow. That's impressive market research on their part. They are not sure how long people keep their cellphones. And they see no issue with requiring digital files to expire whenever the hardware does.
That's they don't know that people sometimes replace their phone within a year isn't the part that bothers me about that question. Hell, let's suppose that 12-18 months is too short an estimate of how long people hold onto their phones. Let's say, instead, that it's 5 years, which is a pretty high number. Still, let's go with that for the sake of argument. It still doesn't address the question-- "Can you really expect people to buy music that's locked to a device they upgrade every 5 years?"
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
For higher end phones people might keep them for a few years, but in the UK a normal mobile phone contract (with a free phone) is 12 or 18 months. At the end of that I would expect (if they are anything like their US counterparts) they offer you another free phone if you'll sign for another 12 or 18 month contract.
People who get an iphone or whatever and probably pay upfront for part of the phone might just keep the one they have, but almost everyone who got the freeby (well embedded in the monthly charges)
Re:Hilarious... (Score:5, Funny)
BBH
Re: (Score:2)
This guy's answers are hilarious. They only make sense in a universe where everything is inherently locked down, and your customers are idiots to be abused.
Don't know if you've noticed, but that is the MSN universe, in a nutshell. For that matter, it's a lot of the Microsoft universe. And it's big.
Re:Hilarious... (Score:4, Insightful)
"This guy's answers are hilarious. They only make sense in a universe where everything is inherently locked down, and your customers are idiots to be abused."
The whole thing is incredibly stupid, but, that's the beauty of a free society. Everyone is free to be incredibly stupid but you can just ignore it. The real questions to be asked are:
1. Why are you downloading songs to your cell phone?
B. Why are you buying them from Microsoft?
another spin on a vague quote (Score:4, Funny)
Q: "If I buy these songs on your service â" and they're locked to my phone â" what happens when I upgrade my phone in six months' time?"
A: "Well, I think you know the answer to that."
I know its microsoft we're dealing with here, and the default way to fill in the blanks is by assuming they will screw you; but, is there a possibility that there is an easy walk-around to this DRM, (sort of like the one in itunes) and he's being vague about it at the moment to keep the media companies happy?
i can't imagine MS would be THAT stupid to ignore such obvious common sense in the face of such steep competition. can they really be that out of touch? are they intentionally trying to fail?
Re:another spin on a vague quote (Score:5, Funny)
A: "Well, I think you know the answer to that."
Premises don't support their conclusion (Score:5, Insightful)
This is why it contradicts itself. If [A] piracy is a problem (represents lost sales, etc.) and [B] DRM is the correct response to this problem, then it does not follow that a system using a rather strict form of DRM would charge more per track. If anything, this should make their prices cheaper, especially considering that the non-transferrability would cause some repeat purchases with no additional expenses incurred by the seller.
He is being unusually honest about this, although I don't think that's courage on his part but rather a reliance on the apathy of the average customer.
Let me fix that for you... (Score:5, Funny)
Answer... We'll be looking to enhance the service if we get some interest from consumers
Real Answer... We've hurriedly acquired some third party that provides a service that we kind of want and we're keeping our fingers crossed that it's profitable and works.
Answer... At the moment we don't have the functionality in-house to provide a mechanism for transferring between mobile phones and PC
Real Answer... We've blindly bought this company on a me-too whim - I have no idea what they do, and we're kind of regretting it that customers haven't thrown a ticker tape party for us, people do that for Apple when they release something cool.. WHHHHHHYYYY can't they do that for us :-(
Answer... I didn't realise phones were churning that quickly in the marketplace these days
Real Answer... I'm used to working in a big corporation where my incompetence and lack of on-the-trigger knowledge is drowned out by the number of people who work there. It means I have no idea about the product, where it'll go, how it will perform or how it works. I've just been told by my director to "Go do something like Apple or Amazon and we'll sort it all out later" ...
There.. fixed it for you Mr Griffiths
Surprising how? (Score:2)
Otherwise, MS has made it clear they are trying to protect the 'rights' of the companies producing content by tying in protection with their OS. Trying to prevent unencrypted content from being sent over video connections or such. I'm not a video/audiophile, so I don't recall the specifics, but I'm sure someone can list them if needed.
They HAVE TO include DRM because... (Score:2)
They would hate to have in place that you can actually purchase a single purchase and NOT have it locked to certain hardware.
For example, I have a single copy of WinXP Pro on a 300GB Raptor HDD.
I enjoy removing said drive and inserting in one of three computers with DIFFERENT HARDWARE depending on what I want to do.
Sure, it might be easier to pirate another copy of WinXP, but since I PAID FOR IT RETAIL (and it was NOT the Upgrade ver
I'm shocked! (Score:2)
No... wait... Im sorry, that was just gas....
Another question for them... (Score:2)
Real A: "Well, I think you know the answer to that."
Some day, this will happen... (Score:4, Funny)
MS Head of Mobile: "Yep, I'm bringin' it back! Hurr!" *clicks on remote, turning on Justin Timberlake - Sexy Back*
Justin Timberlake: I'm bringin' seeexy bac-- **DRM AUTHORIZATION FAILURE, PLEASE CONTACT VENDOR FOR SUPPORT OR REPURCHASE ONLINE. THANK YOU FOR USING MSN MUSIC**
MS Head of Mobile: "Ah damn it all."
MS Worker: "So I'm guessing we're dropping the idea after all?"
MS Head of Mobile: "Nonsense! Call a press conference, I'll just use my cunning wit and charm to sell this idea to the masses. They'll love it!"
MS Worker: "*sigh* Yes, Sir."
Re: (Score:2)
It's sad to think of those affected (Score:5, Interesting)
I have very intelligent friends, usually over 30, that just have no idea about computers, and frankly don't care. It's as interesting to them as how their toaster works. They come to me with their computer issues and the phrase I hear often is, "I hate this. Technology is supposed to make life easier."
They're frustrated and rightfully so. Some will undoubtedly buy into crap like this, and not understand why they can't have their music anymore. They'll get frustrated, angry, or cry, and try silly things to put the music on their computer or new phones. Another phrase I hear often: "I was up half the night trying to get this to work."
The people who sell things like this are putting out a product they know to be inferior. They rationalize it with ideas like, "people have a choice" and "people may actually prefer this layout and never realize the drawbacks."
But in the end, my friends would have a bought a better product for less if this crap hadn't been around. And when they can't do what they thought they should be able to do, they don't know why, and they get very upset. Crap like this ruins the days of many, many people. It's avoidable and it's the fault of people who put plans like this into action.
They're screwing people over to make a buck, plain and simple.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
SELL SELL SELL!!!1! (Score:2)
I don't think you emphasized SELL enough. ;)
Re: (Score:2)
Sorry, I just needed to show off my tech savvy-ness.
Re: (Score:2)
It takes every misgiving and paranoid delusion I have about "Big Business" and amplifies them by 100. I'm a pretty conservative "Free-market" kinda guy, but hearing this sort of thing makes me hope the Obama administration and their DOJ take the gloves off when it comes to monopolies and breaking them up.