Firefox 3 May Be More Memory Efficient Than Either IE or Opera 370
Edy52285 writes "Ars Technica has an article showing benchmarks pitting Firefox 3 Beta 4 against other browsers. Contenders include IE7, Firefox 2, Opera 9.5 Beta, and Safari 3.0.4 Beta. The piece includes a graph depicting FF3's memory usage well below that of the other browsers. The in-testing browser even trumps Opera, which has long been regarded as the fastest browser around."
I knew IE7 was bad, but... (Score:5, Informative)
I'm going to print out that graph and put it on my wall. Then, when my users come to me and ask why our enterprise isn't rolling out IE7 on our systems, I can just point to it.
Based on my experience with FF2 (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Based on my experience with FF2 (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Graph shape (Score:5, Informative)
From the original blog post [pavlov.net]:
So that is all the memory being reclaimed upon closing all but one of the windows, and then doing nothing whatsoever.
Re:Remember when people coded for small memory use (Score:4, Informative)
Re:A trend is emerging... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:From the ars discussion... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:That's when testing with their own tool (Score:5, Informative)
The latest Firefox 3 nightly beat Safari 3.1 as well as the latest WebKit nightly on my iMac (2.0 GHz C2D, 2 GB RAM). You might want to run your own tests; you'll find that Firefox 3 is pretty damn quick.
Re:A Blessing! (Score:3, Informative)
course if you switch over to something like Ubuntu it would be even better, though I'd imagine that would be pretty tough to do at least until XP stops getting supported some year
Re:Graph shape (Score:0, Informative)
Re:Nice to know (Score:2, Informative)
As long as it doesn't crash... (Score:-1, Informative)
plugins (Score:5, Informative)
Perhaps some of the differences here have to do with plugins? There are still a bunch that don't work with FF3.
Re:That's when testing with their own tool (Score:-1, Informative)
Re:Scale? (Score:0, Informative)
Re:Remember when people coded for small memory use (Score:5, Informative)
My (very) significant other keeps 5-10 windows open with 4-12 tabs in each... No kidding...
Here is the top(1) entry of her firefox-session (running linux-firefox-2 on FreeBSD/amd64):
My own (native) session uses 2.5 times less... In other words — "common practice" is a very loose standard :)
Re:comes at a cost (Score:-1, Informative)
As to your points about the tradeoff between memory usage and CPU usage: the benchmarks also show a significant increase in browser speed, so this isn't going to be an issue.
WTF does polling have to do with expunging cache data? I doubt they use polling, but even if they did, how many times a second do you plan on expunging cache data?
Re:Graph shape (Score:5, Informative)
Memory usage under 1.5.x was unbelievably bad. After a week of heavy use, it would routinely plateau in the 1-1.5 GB range, at which point it would become intolerably slow and force me to restart.
I've downloaded every FF 3 beta the day of first release, and pounded on them all.
3b1 crapped out after just over 2 weeks of heavy use. 3b2 was noticeably better, but not perfect. I wasn't thrilled with 3b3. Page transitions to previously open tabs became more sluggish, back/forward browsing was slower, and they really messed up window to window tab move (didn't take the tab history along for the ride, causing me to lose some major unsaved edits while discovering this unpleasant fact, which happily is now fixed in 3b4).
3b4 has been tremendously solid over the relatively short period since its release. Virtual 540MB, resident 330MB. That's spectacularly low by the standards of previous releases for the intensity of my use. Back/forward page transitions on aged tabs remains slower than for 3b1, but not annoyingly so. Overall, it just feels solid now.
I'm having trouble comprehending that *anyone* once said Firefox had no serious memory leaks. Say what? Firefox 1.5 was the Ginny Sacramoni of web browsers. I'm happy to confirm that Firefox has successfully excised the 90-pound mole from its waddling derriere.
Re:That's when testing with their own tool (Score:3, Informative)
FF3b4:http://preview.tinyurl.com/2xwkm3 [tinyurl.com] 7001.8 ms
WebKit:http://preview.tinyurl.com/2cjjfc [tinyurl.com] 8503.4 ms
Re:Crash (Score:4, Informative)
JavaScript performance (Score:4, Informative)
Reduced memory usage is great, but if you're more interested in speed you should take a look at Firefox 3b4's results on the Sunspider JavaScript benchmark, where testers commonly found that it performed twice as well as the latest Opera beta, and nearly three times as fast as Firefox 2 [mozillalinks.org].
I haven't yet heard anything definitive about Gecko's performance in FF3 with respect to FF2 or the rendering engines in other major web browsers, but from my own experience with the betas I can subjectively say "it's fast"; if I'm missing out on speed using FF3b4 instead of the latest WebKit, I can't tell the difference myself.
And Beta 4 is quite stable, to boot. Mozilla really pulled out all the stops on this one... unless you have incompatible extensions holding you back, do yourself a favor and upgrade now.
Re:A Blessing! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Remember when people coded for small memory use (Score:3, Informative)
Browsers: Firefox v2.0.0.12 (no plugins), IE v6.0.2900.2180 (I can't stand the look of IEv7), Opera v9.23, Firefox v3Beta4. Caches cleared before test.
Note: Browsers (espec. IE) don't necessarily show all memory used by their entry in Task Manager so I prefer to know what memory was free before they loaded, and just as importantly after the browser in question is closed.
Comments: Ok, I was surprised how well FF2 & FF3 did in these tests. I also noticed Firefox properly rendering that slideshow-like flash thingy on espn.com (where my Opera setup doesn't show it at all). And that Opera acted pigishly
NoScript makes a major impact on Firefox memory (Score:4, Informative)
If you ran NoScript on Firefox, you probably were entirely happy with the memory usage. Much of the memory fragmentation and leaks due to circular references was caused by Javascript, either on pages loaded or other extensions running. NoScript radically reduces the amount of Javascript being executed by your browser and therefore radically reduces the amount of memory used/fragmented/leaked.
Plus of course, the performance of page loading also improves because your browser isn't trying to execute some moronic scripts designed to track your movements and display "punch the monkey" ads.
Cheers,
Toby Haynes
Works great on OLPC (Score:2, Informative)
Re:That chart is odd... (Score:3, Informative)
The chart was generated by running the same test, which may or may not measure your browsing habits, on all browsers and seeing how they reacted.
As an Opera user, I am surprised, but hope that the release version of Opera 9.5x will be better than the beta with respect to this. The other thing is FF 3.0's Javascript speed, which has improved remarkably.
Re:I knew IE7 was bad, but... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Why Safari 3.0.4 beta? (Score:2, Informative)
They tried using IE8 beta also, it crashed so it wasn't included.
Re:Remember when people coded for small memory use (Score:3, Informative)
My point was not against the killing — it was against kill -9 . Regular kill is just as effective in most cases, but gives the process a chance to clean-up — inside a signal-handler [wikipedia.org]. Using -9 gives no such chances — the process never knows, what hit it. This is the common source of left-over temporary files, of orphaned shared-memory segments and other ill-effects...
Only if a process refuses to die for seconds after a regular kill, is trying the -9 justified...
Re:Crash (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Crash (Score:3, Informative)
Presuming you're not joking, look under History to Recently Closed Tabs.
Firefox 2.0.0.12. No special plug-ins, add-ons, etc. etc. etc.
Re:plugins (Score:4, Informative)
So unless you have tools to pick apart where your OS's memory is going, you're going to get bad results for IE.
Try using something like Process Explorer [microsoft.com] instead. It will give you a much better view into what memory is being used and where.
Re:I knew IE7 was bad, but... (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Crash (Score:3, Informative)
So how does one enable it?
(This is on a Mac Powerbook with OSX 10.4.11, if that matters. I've also seen that menu item with FF on my linux box and my wife's NT and Vista systems, and it was also greyed out there. So I'm baffled. What good is it if it can't be used?
You don't have the Estonian language pack installed, do you??? :-) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/129749 [launchpad.net]Ubuntu Bug 129749 discusses the issue (although I understand yours is on OSX . . .)
There are a few bug reports I found whilst Googling and also looking in Google Groups. Some IceWeasel Bug ID #400704 commentary points to not having a home page defined; one user said defining the home page to be "about:blank" fixed it. More promisingly (I think) is that under about:config, there is an entry called browser.sessionstore.enabled. Try checking it and turn it on if it's off. http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.firefox/browse_thread/thread/4b9ba0eb24229c34/d4a1b0188a9e17ac?hl=en&lnk=st&q=firefox+%22recently+closed+tabs%22+(%22grayed%22+OR+%22greyed%22)#d4a1b0188a9e17ac [google.com]
Just a guess . . . since I haven't experienced it myself.
Re:I'm certainly impressed (Score:3, Informative)
That will pull it off of the toolbar.
Re:Crash (Score:3, Informative)
No, but I do have Finnish Extended and Swedish Pro, which are pretty similar. (Some linguists argue that Estonian is a dialect of Finnish, but the Finns insist it isn't because Estonian is incomprehensible to them.
Some IceWeasel Bug ID #400704 commentary points to not having a home page defined;
It's defined here, as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random [wikipedia.org], which is one of my favorite "pages".
It's there, and it was on.
Maybe I'll try experimenting some more. I did ask google, of course, and while it finds lots of pages that mention undoing a tab delete in firefox, the first couple dozen don't seem to mention how they do it. They just say how useful it is, which I'd agree with, because I'm always closing the wrong tab. It probably has a lot to do with having a dozen browsers installed (for web testing purposes), and no two of them handle tabs quite the same.
Re:Crash (Score:-1, Informative)
I don't know what's happening with your install, but I suspect you're misinterpreting what's happening. I'll address a few things.
The tab bar disappears by default when only one tab is open. This is for those who care about maximizing screen real estate by eliminating unnecessary components. If you would like to disable this, you can go to Tools > Options or Edit > Preferences (I don't know where it's found on mac builds) to get to the preferences dialog. Go to the "Tabs" section of the preferences and check "Always show tab bar."
As for the "undo close tabs" feature [mozilla.com], it is documented in the Firefox help documentation. Go to "Closing and Restoring Tabs" under "Tabbed Browsing" in the help viewer. You can find additions to the featureset in the release notes of each release.
As for your experience with this feature, try this: Open a new window. Assuming you only have one home page, there should be one tab with your home page loaded. Now open another tab and navigate to some website. Click on one of the links on that page. Open two new tabs. Leave the first one blank and navigate to some website in the second new tab. You should have four tabs open now: your home page, one web page that contains one entry in its history that allows you to navigate back to the first website of your choice, one blank tab, and another tab at another website of your choice. Now, in this order, close tabs 4, 3, and 2.
If you go to History > Recently Closed Tabs, there should be two entries, each containing the text for the titles of the two web pages that were present in the tabs you closed at the time that you closed them. Notice that the blank tab is not present. Firefox discards blank tabs with no history. If you bring up the context menu on the tab bar and select "Undo Close Tab," it will bring up the most recently closed tab. It should be the web page you navigated to from the first website you visited, with the history intact (i.e., you should be able to click "Back" and it will navigate back to that first website you entered). If you repeat this process, it will reopen the tab that you first closed. Note how Firefox opens the tabs in reverse of the order they were closed, that is, the most recently closed tabs are reopened first (last-in, first-out [wikipedia.org] order).
By default, Firefox limits the tab stack to 10 entries, although this can be changed by editing a config entry.
HTH HAND