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Networking The Internet

The Night the IETF Shut Off IPv4 208

Posted by ScuttleMonkey
from the fun-with-switches dept.
IP Freely writes "At this year's Internet Engineering Task Force meeting in Philadelphia, conference organizers shut off IPv4 for an hour. Surprisingly, chaos did not ensue. 'After everyone got his or her system up and running, many people started looking for IPv6-reachable web sites, reporting those over Jabber instant messaging — which posed its own challenges in the IPv6 department. I was surprised at the number of sites and wide range of content available over IPv6. Apart from — obviously — IPv6-related sites; they ranged from "the largest Gregorian music collection in Internet" to "hardcore torrents." Virtually none of the better known web destinations were reachable over IPv6. That changed when ipv6.google.com popped into existence.'"
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The Night the IETF Shut Off IPv4

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  • by MichaelCrawford (610140) on Friday March 14, 2008 @03:34PM (#22754018) Homepage Journal
    My Googling hasn't yielded any insight. I should be listing them from my article Links to Tens of Thousands of Legal Music Downloads [goingware.com].

  • Re:Okay... (Score:5, Informative)

    by DeadBeef (15) on Friday March 14, 2008 @03:34PM (#22754020) Homepage
    I did, the google logo does a little dance, other than that it just looks like google.

    I guess I was expecting too much, but the sites that are indexed appear to be just the regular ipv4 sites, so they have ipv6 enabled the web frontend to the search engine but not the back end that goes and crawls the web.
  • I was there (Score:5, Informative)

    by Zarhan (415465) on Friday March 14, 2008 @03:35PM (#22754030)
    And really, only problems I saw were the fact that it's pain in the ass to get automatic DHCPv6 working. The idea is that IPv6 stateless autoconfig (router advertisement) has a bit that tells the client if they should get ALL config via DHCP or just additional (like DNS addresses). However, no easy way to make Linux kernel execute DHCPv6 client based on the received stateless autoconfig bit.

    Anyway, after statically configuring DNS servers, things were very smooth. Google et al worked, I could access entire IPv4 web via sixxs.org (just go http://slashdot.org.sixxs.org/ [sixxs.org] to access Slashdot via IPv6), I could SSH to my home servers...only things that seemed a bit odd were failing reverse DNSes on some hops when running traceroute. Jabber worked, IRC worked.

    Great experience and experiment.
  • Re:Okay... (Score:2, Informative)

    by corsec67 (627446) on Friday March 14, 2008 @03:38PM (#22754060) Homepage Journal

    #dig ipv6.google.com
     
    ; <<>> DiG 9.3.4 <<>> ipv6.google.com
    ;; global options: printcmd
    ;; Got answer:
    ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 40073
    ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 2, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0
     
    ;; QUESTION SECTION:
    ;ipv6.google.com. IN A
     
    ;; ANSWER SECTION:
    ipv6.google.com. 10166 IN CNAME ipv6.l.google.com.
    ipv6.l.google.com. 0 IN A 208.69.32.130
     
    ;; Query time: 206 msec
    ;; SERVER: 10.0.0.1#53(10.0.0.1)
    ;; WHEN: Fri Mar 14 13:35:53 2008
    ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 70
    Not having an A record would make it quite hard to view, so I didn't even try.
  • Re:Okay... (Score:4, Informative)

    by DavidTC (10147) <{slas45dxsvadiv. ... } {neverbox.com}> on Friday March 14, 2008 @03:51PM (#22754180) Homepage
    That's the point. It's IPv6 only:
    $ dig ipv6.google.com aaaa

    ;; QUESTION SECTION:
    ;ipv6.google.com.               IN      AAAA

    ;; ANSWER SECTION:
    ipv6.google.com.        10792   IN      CNAME   ipv6.l.google.com.
    ipv6.l.google.com.      5       IN      AAAA    2001:4860:0:2001::68
    ipv6.l.google.com.      5       IN      AAAA    2001:4860:0:1001::68
  • by antonlacon (821983) on Friday March 14, 2008 @04:07PM (#22754370)
    TA typo'd Georgian into Gregorian.
    http://music.inet.ge/ [music.inet.ge]
  • More IPv6 sites here (Score:5, Informative)

    by Midnight Thunder (17205) on Friday March 14, 2008 @04:10PM (#22754418) Homepage Journal
    Sixxs.net lists some IPv6 web sites in its Wiki:

    http://www.sixxs.net/wiki/Category:IPv6-specific_content [sixxs.net]

    and there is also some other 'Cool IPv6 stuff' listed on the Sixxs web site:

    http://www.sixxs.net/misc/coolstuff/ [sixxs.net]
  • Re:Okay... (Score:5, Informative)

    by stsp (979375) on Friday March 14, 2008 @04:11PM (#22754436) Homepage

    I did, the google logo does a little dance, other than that it just looks like google.
    The logo can also be seen with IPv4: http://www.google.com/images/ipv6_logo.gif [google.com]
  • Re:Okay... (Score:5, Informative)

    by mobilesteve (899951) on Friday March 14, 2008 @04:17PM (#22754488)
    If you really want to see what Google's IPv6 page looks like, you can use SixXs's IPv6 to IPv4 looking glass: http://ipv6.google.com.ipv4.sixxs.org/ [sixxs.org]
  • by Gud (78635) on Friday March 14, 2008 @04:25PM (#22754534)
    Someone should fix that and the traffic would have gone back up to normal load :-)

    Here is my list of sites that I was able to reach using native IPv6
    using IE worked:
                    ipv6.google.com
            www.ripe.net
            www.apnic.net
            www.stupi.net
            www.arin.net
            www.icann.org
            www.nlnetlabs.nl

    Failed foillowing sites did not work
            www.cisco.net/com
                    www.microsoft.com
            www.speakeasy.net
            slashdot.org
            news.bbc.co.uk
            www.mbl.is
            www.cnn.com
            www.comcast.com/net
            news.com.com
            www.ibm.com
           
  • by daniel23 (605413) on Friday March 14, 2008 @04:26PM (#22754540)
    slashdot was missing,too, and unlike google it still is.

    dp@phoenix:~/Desktop$ ping6 ipv6.google.com
    PING ipv6.google.com(2001:4860:0:1001::68) 56 data bytes
    64 bytes from 2001:4860:0:1001::68: icmp_seq=1 ttl=53 time=221 ms
    64 bytes from 2001:4860:0:1001::68: icmp_seq=2 ttl=53 time=214 ms
    64 bytes from 2001:4860:0:1001::68: icmp_seq=3 ttl=53 time=221 ms

    --- ipv6.google.com ping statistics ---
    3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2026ms
    rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 214.969/219.185/221.367/3.006 ms

    dp@phoenix:~/Desktop$ ping6 ipv6.slashdot,org
    unknown host

    dig ipv6.google.com AAAA

    ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 3, AUTHORITY: 7, ADDITIONAL: 0

    ;; QUESTION SECTION:
    ;ipv6.google.com.               IN      AAAA

    ;; ANSWER SECTION:
    ipv6.google.com.        10455   IN      CNAME   ipv6.l.google.com.
    ipv6.l.google.com.      5       IN      AAAA    2001:4860:0:1001::68
    ipv6.l.google.com.      5       IN      AAAA    2001:4860:0:2001::68

    dig slashdot.org AAAA

    ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0

  • Re:Okay... (Score:-1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 14, 2008 @04:33PM (#22754602)
    $ host 208.69.32.130
    130.32.69.208.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer hit-nxdomain.opendns.com.
  • Re:DHCPv6 (Score:5, Informative)

    by gclef (96311) on Friday March 14, 2008 @04:40PM (#22754690)
    One of the things the zeroconf and autoconf folks keep missing is that large organizations (like where I am) need to know which host had a given IP at a given time in the past. We need records and accounting, basically. While DHCP isn't perfect, by any stretch, a fully-autoconf (or zeroconf) network doesn't fill that need, and would be an absolute nightmare for the security folks.

    For example, if I get a complaint about a laptop a few days after the event, how am I supposed to find that host once it's moved onto another network? Are people seriously saying I should have to walk every single router neighbor table (or arp table, if we're talking v4) looking for a specific 64-bit number? The network I work on has literally thousands of routers & switches. That's simply a non-starter. With DHCP, I at least have a > 50% chance of finding the MAC of a host (and where it is now) with a simple query.

    In short, business needs are driving it. Almost every discussion I've seen of IPv6 for large enterprises (not ISPs) has assumed that DHCPv6 will be used, and that autoconf + zeroconf will not.
  • by Sesse (5616) <sgunderson.bigfoot@com> on Friday March 14, 2008 @04:44PM (#22754724) Homepage
    There's a www.ipv6.cisco.com, but it has MTU issues, at least from here. /* Steinar */
  • Re:Okay... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Sesse (5616) <sgunderson.bigfoot@com> on Friday March 14, 2008 @04:54PM (#22754808) Homepage

    Hi. I work (among other things) with IPv6 in Google, although I was only distantly released to this launch (some of my code was used in the monitoring components). It's nice to see we're getting attention :-)

    You're entirely right that at the moment, only web search has an AAAA record. (However, with some trickery, you can get several other Google services running too -- just add /etc/hosts lines to the same IP, and you'll probably be able to run Maps, GMail and several others over IPv6.) We don't yet crawl, send or receive e-mail, or support GTalk over IPv6, and we definitely cannot guarantee anything about the uptime of the IPv6 versions of our services. (We've had a few years to make a production-grade IPv4 network, give us some time to make it IPv6-ready too!) Think of it as the first baby step; although we don't have a roadmap published (we almost never talk about future products in Google) I think it's pretty safe to say that there will be more.

    Whether there should be services that are not available over IPv4, though, is an entirely different discussion. If you had a cool service and could offer it to the world, would you keep it away from 99.9% of the Internet just because you could?

    /* Steinar */
    - Software engineer, Google Norway

  • Re:Okay... (Score:3, Informative)

    by Tony Hoyle (11698) <tmh@nodomain.org> on Friday March 14, 2008 @05:22PM (#22755012) Homepage
    I got that at first, then I remembered firefox disables ipv6 by default. To enable it you have to go into about:config and reenable it.

    Leave it disabled though, it murders your browsing speed.
  • Re:Okay... (Score:3, Informative)

    by jd (1658) <imipak&yahoo,com> on Friday March 14, 2008 @05:23PM (#22755024) Homepage Journal
    If you want to do things the hard way, you could try: OpenWRT [openwrt.org]. If you prefer the easy way, use a tunnel broker. Then only your machine needs to support IPv6, your router doesn't.
  • Re:Okay... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Tony Hoyle (11698) <tmh@nodomain.org> on Friday March 14, 2008 @05:28PM (#22755056) Homepage
    Pretty much no home routers support ipv6.

    Basically you can either buy a cisco and upgrade to an ISP that'll route ipv6 (that's the neatest way of doing it, but is expensive and limits your ISP choice), or if you can get hold of an old WRT54G you can install a custom firmware that supports ipv6 and create a tunnel to a tunnel broker somewhere - it'll be much slower (tunnel latency is typically 300ms+ for the first hop because there are so few of them) but you'll be 'on' the ipv6 internet.
  • Re:DHCPv6 (Score:4, Informative)

    by Tony Hoyle (11698) <tmh@nodomain.org> on Friday March 14, 2008 @05:37PM (#22755112) Homepage
    Stateless autoconfig will only tell you the ipv6 address and router. It's not good enough for full config.

    You need to distribute the addresses of DNS, NTP, WINS, etc. etc. - for that you need DHCPv6.

    Zeroconf will not cut it. That's for discovering services on the local subnet only... not broadcasting DNS addresses etc. On top of that it won't cross routers (by design), making it unsuitable for any reasonable size network (It has exactly the same issues as Netbios broadcast in fact, which hardly ever works.. hence the WINS hack which also hardly ever works).

    Reverse DNS you mentioned - this not solvable without DHCPv6 at present (and is a critical issue for a well functioning network).

    The other issue with stateless autoconfig is you can't fix the addresses centrally. In theory they should stay the same but in practice network cards die.. and the address is just the MAC address of the network card. If that happens to your main webserver you're screwed.
  • Re:Hardcore Torrents (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 14, 2008 @06:11PM (#22755374)
    I wouldn't be all too sure of that ;)

    http://hardcoretorrents.com/ [hardcoretorrents.com]

    #9 on this list of IPv6 web sights.

    http://6bone.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/ipv6/stats/stats.php3 [uni-leipzig.de]
  • Re:Okay... (Score:5, Informative)

    by junglee_iitk (651040) on Friday March 14, 2008 @06:32PM (#22755512)
    No! I bet you are using Firefox. Just Ctrl+Shift+R (hard reload) again and see the dance :)
  • Re:Okay... (Score:5, Informative)

    by fyonn (115426) <dave@fyonn.net> on Friday March 14, 2008 @06:54PM (#22755648) Homepage
    or you can use an apple airport extreme router which supports ipv6 out of the box, though you might need to turn the "firewall" off to get the full functionality.
  • Re:Okay... (Score:-1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 14, 2008 @08:10PM (#22756294)
    I suspect the animated logo is a tribute to http://www.kame.net./ [www.kame.net] The KAME project website displays an animated turtle if you visit it over IPv6. Historically it is one of the oldest IPv6 websites. It's useful for testing.
  • Re:DHCPv6 (Score:3, Informative)

    by profplump (309017) <zach-slashjunk@kotlarek.com> on Friday March 14, 2008 @09:50PM (#22756912)
    You do *not* needs DHCP to get DNS addresses under IPv6. See http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dnsop-ipv6-dns-configuration-06 [ietf.org] -- the RA method is site-local not link-local, so it works across routers if they are configured correctly. And once you have DNS you can configure everything else via SRV records.

    On the "MAC addresses change" note, an ease solution is to simply change the MAC address of the replacement card to match the old one. Since the old one is no longer in use there's no conflict, and then there's no external change to be made anywhere on the network. You've have to type the new MAC address in somewhere to get the DHCP server to hand out the same address, so you might as well just do it locally.

    Likewise DHCP is hardly the only option for reverse-DNS registration; it doesn't take a whole lot of scripting to submit the local hostname to some remote service that can update DNS. We've decided the DHCP server is a good place to do this, because it knows both those items and is centrally administered, but it's certainly not complicated to replicate with other mechanisms.

    Now, you may prefer to do things via DHCP, and I wouldn't necessarily blame you, but it's not strictly necessary, and for many simple networks -- say home routers -- there's no reason for DHCP at all.
  • Re:IPv5 (Score:3, Informative)

    by klapaucjusz (1167407) on Friday March 14, 2008 @10:28PM (#22757108) Homepage

    I believe IPv5 is formally defined as TUBA

    No, IPv5 is ST-II, the Internet Stream protocol, defined in RFC 1190. TUBA is one of the experimental proposals that led to IPv6, and has never been assigned an IP version number.

  • Re:Okay... (Score:3, Informative)

    by laffer1 (701823) <luke@@@foolishgames...com> on Friday March 14, 2008 @11:21PM (#22757380) Homepage Journal
    Airport Express base stations also support IPv6. I have two and it even encourages use of IPv6 in the manual.

    I've been tempted to play with it, but I don't believe my Wii can handle it. It's not just routers that need some work.
  • Get IPv6 (Score:4, Informative)

    by klapaucjusz (1167407) on Friday March 14, 2008 @11:24PM (#22757392) Homepage

    A lot of people think they need their ISP's help to get IPv6 connectivity. That's not the case. If you're running Windows Vista, or if you use an Apple Airport router, you should get connectivity to the IPv6 Internet out of the box. If you're running Linux, I've writtent a short HOWTO about IPv6 under Linux [jussieu.fr].

  • Re:Okay... (Score:4, Informative)

    by Cato (8296) on Saturday March 15, 2008 @09:21AM (#22759094)
    Enabling IPv6 in Firefox only 'murders your browsing speed' if (most likely) you are served a AAAA DNS record for a site AND you have an IPv6 interface enabled on your machine AND it's connected to a broken IPv6 network - the OS (whether Windows or Linux) will try to use IPv6, then fail after a timeout, and maybe revert to IPv4 if you are lucky. So it's not Firefox or even the OS, it's having an IPv6 interface that is up while the IPv6 network you are on is down. This is rather a long way from being a Firefox problem.

    The only other reason I can think of for IPv6 being slower is if you are tunnelling IPv6 over IPv4 to a distant tunnel broker node. This too is nothing to do with Firefox or even your machine.

"Only the hypocrite is really rotten to the core." -- Hannah Arendt.

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