Late Adopters Prefer the Tried and True 383
smooth wombat writes "There is a fairly significant portion of the population which does not go out and grab the newest OS, gadget, web browser or any other technology related product. Why? It's not because they're luddites but rather, they are comfortable with what they know. Take the case of John Uribe, a 56-year old real estate agent who still uses AOL dial-up and only recently switched to Firefox after being prodded for weeks by an AOL message telling him that on March 1st, AOL would no longer support Netscape. Why did it take him so long to stop using Netscape and make the switch? From the article: 'It worked for me, so I stuck with it. Until there is really some reason to totally abandon it, I won't.'"
Thanks, Captain Obvious. (Score:5, Insightful)
Difference in attitudes (Score:5, Insightful)
Burned (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:The same John Uribe? (Score:1, Insightful)
You take his statement out of context: "It worked for me, so I stuck with it." From this statement one could deduce that neither of his wifes "worked for him". Which is usually why a divorce is done, in the first place.
You can have a sloppy, niphomanic, epensive wife and still it could "work for you". Doesn't mean there aren't better possible wives out there....
Re:Set in their ways (Score:5, Insightful)
What was that? You just use your house to live in and it works just fine? Oh...
Re:The same John Uribe? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Set in their ways (Score:2, Insightful)
These people do not bother me... It's the ones that are too incompetent to learn how to use one and try anyway.
Part of the reason Spam and malware still exists is because of these kinds of people.
Re:Thanks, Captain Obvious. (Score:5, Insightful)
Some tech is just too damned expensive new. I'd like an iPhone but they're just too damned pricey. Some tech comes from companies I'd rather spit dead rats than buy from - Sony and ATT come to mind.
Some tech is obviously not ready for use yet - any Mixrosoft x.0 release, for instance. I'll bet there aren't many early Windows adopters here, because everyone knows you don't buy a new Windows until at LEAST the SP1 service pack comes out fixing its most glaring errors.
Finally, there's a reason they call it "bleeding edge technology".
-mcgrew
PS Now get off my lawn you damned kids and no, you can't have your burlout back.
Re:Typical for Real Estate (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Set in their ways (Score:3, Insightful)
On the other hand, a lot of people really don't have a need to upgrade. "But the new version of [whatever software] has so many more features!" I hear you cry. (Well, someone's yelling it, anyway.) But they don't need the new features. And in order to run the new version, they'd need a new computer, a new operating system, and time to learn to use both. I know a few people who are still running Photoshop 5. Why? Well, because it suits their needs, and they already know how to use it. Why spend time and money on a new product when the old one does what they want? Sure, the new one has some neat new gadgets, and some things might get easier, but for them, the time spent learning it is more valuable than those new features.
Change for the sake of change isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's also not necessarily a good thing. And not seeing a need to upgrade doesn't always mean they're simply being stubborn; sometimes it just means that they're happy with what they have.
Guns and other stuff, too (Score:5, Insightful)
The best example I can think of? The Colt model of 1911 is still considered by lots of people to be the finest fighting sidearm ever. It certainly was in its day. That day lasted until the mid-1980s when the Glock came along. It's taken 20 years, but if you attend a *serious* personal defense class (not one of those "get your carry license in a day" things) where the students select and bring their own sidearm, you'll generally find something close to an even split between 1911s and Glocks. It's taken more than 20 years for a superior design to achieve acceptance by the cognescenti.
Old and obsolete often means tried and true. When I'm betting my life, I like the idea of tried and true. That attitude is often displayed by thoughtful folks in all areas of their life; we like what works and will change only when something demonstrably better is available and the inconvenience of using the old tech becomes sufficiently painful.
In other news, I'm considering switching to a digital camera any day now.
Re:Difference in attitudes (Score:2, Insightful)
The way I see it, there are three cases:
Anyway I think I'll stick to my (ironically) old ways of switching to new things. After all, isn't the joy of life to be constantly learning new things?
Aversion to risk? (Score:3, Insightful)
Besides, who needs half of this flashy trash anyway? iPhone? Pah, I'd still have a Nokia 3310 if it wasn't about as cheap to buy a 3510 as it was to get a replacement battery for the 3310, and I'm 23.
Re:Set in their ways (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, there are many, many stubborn people out there. Like the ones who still drive ten year old cars rather than the newest, shinier ones with all the bells and whistles they will never use like GPS, an iPod plug, tv screens and so on. Or maybe the ones who still use a vcr to record their tv shows because they don't have to leave it on whatever channel they want to record without having to pay extra for a service to pull down their shows.
These are horrible people who are devastating the American economy because they refuse to go along with the marketing mindset that if it's new, it must be better, and so you must go and spend, spend, spend.
The older generations, 40+ have no concept of technology and most of them don't want to.
Hey dipwad, I just turned 41 and I can tell you, I have more of a grasp of technology than the vast majority of 20 somethings wandering around my building acting as consultants for an ERP project. The fact that I choose not to have a cell phone, iPod, Blackberry and other electronic gizmos does not mean I have no concept of technology. It means I don't care about that stuff. Having any of those items will not enrich my life in any way, except maybe the iPod.
For the record, while there are people older than I who do not care about computers, I can tell you I have encountered quite a few, including my mother, who want to learn. In fact, the reason my mother uses a computer, other than keeping in touch with people, is, in her words, to keep her skills sharp. She retired ten years ago and still wants to learn. How about that?
If it requires any sort of effort to learn, people try to pretend its not there and stick with what they have until it is no longer a viable option.
You mean like driving a manual transmission, right? Because it's so difficult to learn how to push in a pedal and move a lever.
This saddens me greatly.
What saddens me is people like you on their high horse who think that everyone must always be on the cutting edge. That the latest and greatest is the only way to go. If you don't own what the marketing droids tell you to own, you're not worth the time or effort.
I work with people like you and let me tell, in the time it takes them to find the piece of information they want, or perform whatever task they want to accomplish, I generally have time to go get a drink or take a shit before they're finished, it takes them that long. These are generally the same people who constantly complain they have no time for a life, relationship or anything else because their Blackberry is constantly buzzing or they have to answer an IM.
If that's the kind of life you want to lead, be my guest. Most people don't give a shit about gadgets and do-dads but instead, want something to work well and last a long time.
Re:Difference in attitudes (Score:5, Insightful)
The basis of the story is that we are being sold a lot of hype. Any particular age group or group of people is only being used to say that it's not just one person, or one town. It's happening all over the place. Technology is not a one-size-fits-all proposition.
Eventually the MS vs. GNU/Linux vs. Mac story will sort itself out, and fanbois will stop telling the other side's fanbois that they are wrong. What works for some doesn't work for all. That would be why there are so many types of personal vehicles on the road, to bring the car analogy into it.
This idea will be news until tech manufacturers get it. some day you'll walk into a technology store and the phones will be separated into groups where one is the simple function group, next is a nice mix, and then some high end stuff... each with ranges of pricing. Sure, they kind of do that now but you need assistance to figure out what is easy to operate, or what has features in the plan that you don't want. Eventually tech sales will be comoditized. Today we are still treated as though we are buying a custom made suit, or a piece of art.
Vendor lock-in is to blame. There really is no lock-in deal with low end, low functionality equipment, so they always try to sell you the latest, greatest, steaming pile of tech. Cash is supposed to be king, but no one really cares unless they can get you locked in to a 3 year contract and $15/month insurance. It's all about money still as they really don't care what you want to buy so long as you buy something with a three year contract and insurance premiums.
Re:The same John Uribe? (Score:3, Insightful)
It's interesting to note that every single example in the article is over the age of 50. So why don't want just say what it is; old people are scared of change.
Re:WordPerfect for DOS (Score:2, Insightful)
God, I loved WP for DOS (was it 5.1? Ah, distant memories...)
Last f***ing word processor that actually did what I wanted it to, when I wanted it to.
Re:The same John Uribe? (Score:2, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Set in their ways (Score:5, Insightful)
I needed a new roof, so I hired a roofer. We'll call him "roof support." If he would have told me to learn more about roofing and that my questions were stupid, I would have fired him.
Next, I needed my AC serviced, we'll call him "HVAC Support." If he would have told me that my questions on general maintenance were stupdid, or he would have said "RTFM" I would have fired him.
I pay people for support for jobs that I can't or don't want to do myself, if they suggest that I learn more about their jobs to make their lives easier, I fire them and get someone that meets my needs.
Re:Difference in attitudes (Score:4, Insightful)
Saying that because something is so old it is broken doesn't make any sense. If you use a 10 year old browser and dialup just to check the weather, as long as it can still check the weather, it isn't broken.
ROI (Score:3, Insightful)
There is a reason why there is still a lot of cobol out there, ROI. Why switch when it works? Switching is risky and costly, as anybody who was sucked into an ERP project has learned.
Re:The same John Uribe? (Score:5, Insightful)
If John Uribe is a fisherman I'm sure he has all the latest and greatest fishing gear because it's something he places a high value on, if he checks his AOL email once a week to see if he got a message from his grand kids then Netscape is probably all he really needs. Switching to a new bowser wont add any benefit to his internet tasks, but it will involve him spending time to research which browser to use, figuring out how to install it and set it up, and learning a new interface. Where's the benefit in that?
Re:The same John Uribe? (Score:5, Insightful)
Thanks. I don't visit your sites anymore because I see no reason to turn NoScript off on my modern browser.
Have a nice day.
Re:Thanks, Captain Obvious. (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean, what kind of car do you have where you need "$100,000" worth of equipment to work on it? About the most advanced thing you might need for certain problems is the little diagnostic reader, and you can still spend more on a nice floor jack. A socket set and some basic tools get you most of the way there. Read the back part of Popular Mechanics sometime - most common repairs are still basically the same. And cars on balance are much more reliable and free of maintenance. I've had some of the most unreliable cars on the market (thank you, GM), and they were STILL more reliable than what my parents had growing up.
To use your example of refrigerators from the 1920s (!!!), yeah, maybe they would last 40 years. Too bad it would cost roughly the equivalent of $5000 in 2007 dollars. At that price, you could buy a lifetime of so-called crappy modern refrigerators - and each one would pay for itself in the efficiency improvement over the previous one. I don't even want to know how much it would cost to run a refrigerator from the 20s... you really should take into account total cost of ownership.
I don't know where you get your shoes, either, but I've never had a pair with round vinyl laces. This actually has me curious. In any event, you can buy replacement laces for about a buck. Nice, flat, cotton laces. I also won't get into your (hopefully unintentionally) racist comments about Chinese t-shirts. Who still says "Chinamen"??? But if you really likes American-made t-shirts, can't you just buy American Apparel stuff? It's not exactly expensive - and you express a willingness to pay $50 for a well-made t-shirt... you're in luck, a 3-pack is like $40.
Two-handled shower faucets? Go to Home Depot? You can buy one-handled, two-handled, just about anything you can imagine... even temperature controlled. I happen to prefer the hotel-style single valve design... turn it one way for more heat, the other way for more cold.
Old-fashioned furnaces? You like them because they work when the electricity goes out. So do kerosene heaters. With the hundreds you save each month in heating bills, go out and get yourself a kerosene heater.
Re:Thanks, Captain Obvious. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:The same John Uribe? (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you missed the point entirely. Until it NO LONGER WORKS, he has not motivation to go try a newer one. If he logged onto the net one day and it said "Netscape no longer works with the Internet. It done gone and broke.", then he can still use that browser and it works for him.
Yes, the people are often older, but a lot of people work like that.
Heck my grandfather only passed in 2004 (not too far back - my grandmother passed 2 years afterwards) and up until that point he and my grandmother DID grow (or raised in the case of livestock) almost all of their own food, still watched a black and white television set, drove an old 1983 Ford, and did most of their cooking (and home heating) on a wood-burning stove. They canned their own vegetables in mason jars for the winter; they used to have a whole shed full of canned/jarred food. My granddad would hunt game or slaughter his pigs or chickens for meat. I think it was into the 1970's before they even got indoor plumbing.
Were there better ways to do things? Yep. But their way undeniably worked for them. They both lived into their mid-80's, were never hungry, and didn't live in debt. For some people that's perfectly fine and they don't need to go searching for something "better".
Re:Set in their ways (Score:3, Insightful)
Besides, not all construction is replacement. If you add a deck or a sunroom, or remodel the basement, you're looking at new things. Of course, like all analogies - mine is nowhere near 1:1. The point is that new things take time and effort (and often money), and we all can't be abreast of the latest (or even recent) developments in all fields. There aren't enough hours in the day. To think everyone will find interest in _your_ field or hobby is a bit vain.
Re:The same John Uribe? (Score:5, Insightful)
I have an iPhone, I'm running an Alienware laptop that is less than a year old. It started with XP Pro, which I was happy with, but then my son's Alienware laptop came with Vista, so I changed to Vista to be better able to support his system. I don't generally go for the newest things, not because they are new, but because I want a reasonable price on things I buy -- and the newest generally comes with a premium price, and because I want to understand why it's worth it to me to upgrade.
On the other hand, I'm running a linux server that's around seven or eight years old. Why? _Because_it_works_. It does exactly what it needs to do, is absolutely rock solid in stability, and I see no reason so go through the process of upgrading it. Oh, I'm beginning to think it might be nice to move to a different set of hardware -- the cpu fan went out a couple of years ago, so I've got an eight inch fan blowing in the case to keep the thing cool -- it's got less than 8 gb of space total, on three or four disks, and the things it does -- MySQL and web serving wouldn't be too hard to move to a new machine -- but it just works, so I rarely worry about it.
I'm not scared of change, but change for change's sake is silly.
Sean.
Re:The same John Uribe? (Score:3, Insightful)
How to explain. He does certain things every day with his web browser. It does all of those things well. Therefore it "works for him".
Firefox adds whole new capabilities. But it still does those things he does about as well as Netscape does. Therefore, to him, there is no advantage to Firefox.
Yes, Firefox does a host of things he has never considered. So? Microsoft Office does a host of things most of us never use too. Do you automatically upgrade your MS Office suite because the new Office has added yet another function that a professional typesetter might use once a year, but you'll never use at all?
The truly lovely thing about being a late-adopter is that you don't have to put up with the headaches of bleeding edge tech. Buggy programs, neat new designs that don't work in the Real World (tm), that sort of thing.
When I realize how much of my time I've spent dealing with bugs just to use the Latest And Greatest, I wish I'd decided to be a late-adopter.
Re:Thanks, Captain Obvious. (Score:3, Insightful)
It becomes less about pragmatism and more about fear of change. And in some cases, the longer you wait to make that change, the more difficult it's going to be.
Using AOL dialup, when there is any other option, is a bad idea.
I would say I'm neither an early adopter nor a late adopter, and I think that's a smart place to be. Early adopters get burned with stuff that's not ready for production yet, late adopters miss out on any genuine improvements.
Re:one hopes the next change (Score:3, Insightful)
You may have a point. Until then, sometimes reasonable people will need tools to deal with the criminal actions of unreasonable people. Look at police response time to 911 calls, and what can happen before police show up. Or even notice that societies still need police.
After all, it takes every member of a group to decide to get along, but only one person to decide they want conflict.
Total Late Adopter here (Score:4, Insightful)
My laptop, with a 133Mhz Pentium, 48MB RAM, and an 800 x 600 screen, was bought used 10 years ago from a friend who was in grad school (and thus on a tight budget herself). I've been using it quite a bit recently, to learn Lisp programming on (X + IceWM + Emacs).
The internet connection is 100MBps optical fiber, but I just plug my PC in directly for PPPoE -- no wireless router or anything like that.
Got an iPod last year - a 512MB Shuffle which was a hand-me-down from my girlfriend. Until then, my portable music player was a Sony MiniDisc-Walkman, which I still use for live recordings.
My cell phone is seven years old, and it cost nothing when I got it.
Stereo is a 15-year-old Nakamichi receiver, still in good condition -- better than the flaky Sony DVD player I bought four years ago.
OK, maybe I'm just a cheapskate. But really, I can't think of anything that I'd really want to go out and buy - that sort of thing happens only about once a year. (And I could well afford any such thing if I wanted it.) Basically, everything still works, and until it stops working, I feel it's a waste to replace it.
Re:The same John Uribe? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:criminals love guns (Score:3, Insightful)
Your heart is in the right place. I really believe that. My experience leads me to believe differently but I still respect your viewpoint as forward-thinking, a goal for the future. Still, I think you overstate your case when you say
Some years ago a man who wanted nothing more than my death unloaded a shotgun in my direction. I was not in danger. He was a drunken fool, unable to aim and too far away to be effective. I had the option to conceal myself and chose it.
At no time, however, did I think to myself "I should go over there and use the force of my thought to dissuade him from shooting at me." Oddly, perhaps, that thought never crossed my mind. "I wish I had an option other than running and hiding" did occur to me, along with "If the .44 revolver in the trunk of my car was, instead, in my hand, I'd be in a better position."
Some years before that my mother was gang-raped in the washateria of her apartment complex. Of all the thoughts and feelings she had at the time and since and has been willing to discuss with me, the notion that she should have used the force of her thoughts to stop them has never been mentioned. She has, however, from time to time expressed regret that she neglected to take her .45 with her that day when she did the wash.
I reject the notion that either of us is evil, dumb, or insecure because we place value on the concept of possessing the means to meet violence with superior violence. I submit that we are quite secure that our view of the world is reasonable when it leads us to the conclusion the owning a gun is a good thing for good people.
I grant that you are correct that owning a gun is a bad thing for bad people. Find a way to make them give up theirs first and maybe we can make some real progress.
Agreed. But that provides no justification for denying the noble man the use of arms. Quite the opposite.