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Microsoft Submits Windows 7 for Antitrust Review 166

Posted by samzenpus
from the check-it-out dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft has submitted the follow-up to Windows Vista to the committee that oversees its US antitrust compliance, to ensure the operating system is meeting the terms of the company's agreement with the government. According to last week's status report on the US antitrust case, Microsoft "recently supplied" the Technical Committee (TC) with a build of the OS, code-named Windows 7, and the TC will "conduct middleware-related tests on future builds" of the software. The move was revealed in papers filed in the US District Court for the District of Columbia. Those on the TC so far are the only ones privy to what the follow-up to Vista will look like, and Microsoft is mum on details of the software. But recent company moves and revelations hint at what can be expected from the software, which is due for release in late 2009 or early 2010. Lets hope Microsoft learns some lessons from the "Vista Capable" dilemma!!"
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Microsoft Submits Windows 7 for Antitrust Review

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  • dupe (Score:5, Informative)

    by wizardforce (1005805) on Wednesday March 12, 2008 @08:33PM (#22734548) Journal
    didn't we just have an article nearly exactly like this a few days ago?
  • How on earth does this kind of thing not get leaked? Dozens of people with copies of the software, masive portable storage devices commonplace...
    • Re:Leak? (Score:5, Funny)

      by MightyYar (622222) on Wednesday March 12, 2008 @08:37PM (#22734560)
      Apparently they don't send it to Academy members...
    • Re:Leak? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by grasshoppa (657393) <skennedy AT tpno-co DOT org> on Wednesday March 12, 2008 @08:37PM (#22734568) Homepage
      ...each copy with secret water marks throughout the software, traceable back to the folks that signed the NDA that promised the left AND right nut should they spill the beans.

      ya, can't imagine how that doesn't happen more often.
      • Yeah I'm sure they would be happy to see that Microsoft gave them a copy specifically tailored for submission to the antitrust committee. That's exactly what microsoft wouldn't be allowed to do.
        • I don't see why not as such a (presumably) early stage in the software's development where it's important not to have any leaks.

          Plus, who the fsck actually wants to run Windows 7 anyway? I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole, just like I never tried any betas of Vista..
          • Re:Leak? (Score:5, Funny)

            by DAldredge (2353) <SlashdotEmail@GMail.Com> on Wednesday March 12, 2008 @08:57PM (#22734726) Journal
            I would love to have a copy of Windows 7.
            • Re:Leak? (Score:5, Funny)

              by rocketPack (1255456) on Wednesday March 12, 2008 @11:02PM (#22735510)
              For as much Windows and Microsoft bashing that goes on in this community, it sure is funny to see how eager people are to get their hands on their latest beta.

              "Microsoft Beta" is a double negative, but I wouldn't count on the end result being positive...
              • by rucs_hack (784150)
                If the alternative is Vista, then yes, I'd like to get Windows 7. If only because the Kernel is apparently faster.

                My next pc purchase will be later this year. My chances of getting XP for it diminish as the months wear on. I'm not even slightly happy about this. I've used Vista, and I don't like it.

                Around this point people start thinking 'ooh, I'll type in "use Linux", and feel all smug'.

                Well, just as soon as you can make all the games companies release Linux native versions of their stuff, I'd go for it. U
              • For as much Windows and Microsoft bashing that goes on in this community, it sure is funny to see how eager people are to get their hands on their latest beta.
                People do it for a variety of reasons, some for the ability to brag about it. Some because they want as much advanced warning of what MS has in store for us as they can. A few probablly want it because they actually want to use it but I strongly suspect they are in the minority.

          • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

            by Tom9729 (1134127)
            > Plus, who the fsck actually wants to run Windows 7 anyway? I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole, just like I never tried any betas of Vista..

            I need some new coasters...
          • Re:Leak? (Score:4, Interesting)

            by Ron_Fitzgerald (1101005) on Wednesday March 12, 2008 @10:15PM (#22735194)
            I also have good feelings about Windows 7. Vista had really good features but failed in lot of ways for me. I really feel that Microsoft recognizes Vista's faults, listened to the real critics of it and this will show as such in the new version.

            This is not a sarcastic statement.
            • Re:Leak? (Score:4, Funny)

              by ColdWetDog (752185) on Wednesday March 12, 2008 @11:31PM (#22735710) Homepage

              I really feel that Microsoft recognizes Vista's faults, listened to the real critics of it and this will show as such in the new version.

              Hey, could you email with the name of the medication you're taking? I'd like to give it a try. It seems to work a lot better than the stuff my therapist gives me.

            • Microsoft seems good at fixing existing problems that customers raise. The problem is that, in so doing, they tend to introduce more unforeseen problems.
            • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

              I really feel that Microsoft recognizes Vista's faults, listened to the real critics of it and this will show as such in the new version.

              You mean, the way they did with XP? And 2000?

              I haven't installed Vista, but XP did still have tons of Microsoft propaganda -- I mean, informative tips -- while you waited, telling you all the great things about the OS you're installing. So let me guess: You feel that Windows 7 will be "faster, more secure, more fun," etc? You know, the way XP was?

              And this is a sarcastic

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by abigsmurf (919188)
            Windows ME was perhaps the worst version of windows to be release. They followed it up with XP which is possibly the best.

            Lots of people are hoping that Vista was just a stopgap and windows 7 will have all the cool stuff promised (virtual registry, WinFS and other stuff I'm sure other people can remember)
      • by HeroreV (869368)
        How difficult would something like that be to remove if they had 3 copies to compare?
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Kalriath (849904)
      Well, certain organisations have always had access to Windows source code (educational institutions, governments) on a "look, but don't touch" basis - after signing massive NDAs. So really, if it were going to happen, it would have happened already (more than once)
  • by vancondo (986849) on Wednesday March 12, 2008 @08:39PM (#22734572) Homepage
    The problem with saying hardware is 'vista capable' is that its not entirely clear what they mean. I have it on good authority that a room-full of MS lawyers have come up with a new term for selling hardware that the newest version of Windows may or may not run on:

    "Supports windows 7" means that if you put the software box on top of the hardware, the hardware will not physically crumble to the ground.

    --
    http://vancouvercondo.info [vancouvercondo.info]
  • As usual, M$'s software lags hardware by five to seven years. Expect a continued messy transition to 64 bit computing that will favor Intel, the other monopoly laggart.

    This is a lot like the transition from 95 to XP. How many times did Bill Gates declare the "death of DOS" or "16 bit computing"? The messy steps between included 98, NT, ME and W2K. It took that long to marginalize competing software vendors but the real cost should be measured in intentionally wasted hardware. Non free and free softwar

    • by Brian Gordon (987471) on Wednesday March 12, 2008 @08:48PM (#22734650)
      You're wrong about world perfect- MS Office has always been the premiere office suite. Have you seen Office 08? I don't get why Sarah Connor was trying to destroy The Turk-- it's obvious that Skynet won't start from a chess AI, it'll start when Microsoft adds just one too many features to Office and Visual Studio, and they become self-aware. The VS2008 installer is frankly terrifying with all the features flicking by in the installer animation, some of them are so insane and impressive.
    • by MightyYar (622222)

      As usual, M$'s software lags hardware by five to seven years.
      Well, thank God for that. Can you imagine if Vista used MORE available resources?

      I think that the drive for 64-bit will not come from MS or Intel, but from the memory manufacturers. When regular people start needing/wanting over 4GB of RAM, they won't have much choice but to go 64-bit.
      • by calebt3 (1098475)

        When regular people start needing/wanting over 4GB of RAM, they won't have much choice but to go 64-bit
        640K should be enough for anybody.
        • by MightyYar (622222)
          You give Bill far too much credit - he has never said anything memorable. Not one single utterance.
    • by DaveWick79 (939388) on Wednesday March 12, 2008 @09:28PM (#22734918)
      Free software may have had 64-bit versions - but was there any advantage over the 32 bit versions? Negligible in most cases. 32-bit software reworked to run on x64 isn't exactly cutting edge. Then once you had a x64 OS, you just ran 32-bit apps on it in compatibility mode.

      No, in the real world people count on their Windows apps to run their daily business. In your dream world, who is creating the everyday business apps to compete with the Windows counterparts that run nearly every business in the US?
      • mac os 10.5 and linux have a better 64 bit system.

        Why can we have 32 bit and 64 bit in the same dvd / cd like how mac os 10.5 is and you don't have to pick 32 bit or 64 bit.

        With windows you need all 64 bit drivers I can see needing it for core system stuff but do we really need to have 64 bit printer drivers?
        Do we need to forced to use 64 bit joystick / other input stuff?

        What about other usb stuff that does not touch the core parts of the system.

        Do we really need a 64 bit IE that dose not work older plugs i
      • by vadim_t (324782)
        What exactly is "32 bit software reworked to run on x64"? That would imply there's some good reason to write specifically for x64.

        Writing for x64 is for the most part exactly the same as for 32 bit. Hello world is exactly the same. So is 99% of software. The only time there is any difference is when there's a 64/32 bit specific optimization. Some of that can be done portably (types like int32_fast_t that indicate "This needs to be at least a 32 bit integer, but use whatever is fastest for the arch" that can
      • Free software may have had 64-bit versions - but was there any advantage over the 32 bit versions?

        If you've got a real computer, there is no advantage. On my 64-bit SPARC, most of the software I run is 32-bit because you use less memory bandwidth and CPU cache storing 32-bit pointers than 64-bit ones. On x86, however, the 64-bit transition also doubles the number of general purpose registers, which can give around a 10-15% speed boost on most apps even including the performance hit from going 64-bit. If you want really good performance from an x86-64 system then (for most workloads) you want an ABI

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by sjelkjd (541324)
      WTF are you talking about, your post is full of non-sequiters.

      >>Expect a continued messy transition to 64 bit computing that will favor Intel, the other monopoly laggart.
      Vista and XP both shipped with 64 bit versions, specifically x86-64, which was developed originally by.....drumroll.....AMD! How exactly is ignoring IA64 for x86-64 favoring Intel?

      >>Some nonsense about 32 bit computing
      Windows 95 was 32 bit software. Maybe you mean using a protected memory model and pre-emptive multitasking(whi
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      You lost me at Lotus being superior software.

      It's a nice manifesto, but it's more about how you'd like the world to be than how it actually is or will be anytime soon.
    • OS X (Score:2, Interesting)

      I'm pretty sure OS X Leopard is 64 bit and has been one of the smoothest transitions to 64 bit yet. MS seems to be having some major problems getting driver support and application support for 64 bit, but OS X seems just fine.

      http://www.apple.com/macosx/technology/64bit.html [apple.com]

      http://www.macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/apples_mac_os_x_leopard_is_64_bit_done_right_unlike_vista/ [macdailynews.com]

      • by Macthorpe (960048)

        MS seems to be having some major problems getting driver support and application support for 64 bit
        Well, of course it's going to be different for Apple. If they had trouble getting driver support for all 30 different computers they supply, then they might as well throw in the towel now.
    • by Kwirl (877607)

      The problem for M$ is that we have all learned the same lesson and are sick of it.

      Speak for yourself, I don't have problems with Windows, I run XP Pro, XP Media Center, and Vista Ultimate, love them, with Vista being my favorite (yay crysis).

      People are not going to just go along with things. They are not going to throw their hardware out again for another buggy version of Windows.

      I built a new computer just to run Vista, dual core 3.7ghz cpu with 8 gigs of ram, x-fi sound card and sli 8600 video cards - installed OS, updated drivers, have been running with no real compatability issues for any of my games or applications (photoshop, office 2007, Sims 2 + 13 expansions, BF2, Crysis and TF2.

      Free software works all of it better now, so Windows 7 is just as dead in the water as Vista was. The industry is losing money, and their trust in M$ is gone.

      Oooooh wait, is this the long-await

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by Windowser (191974)

        I built a new computer just to run Vista, dual core 3.7ghz cpu with 8 gigs of ram, x-fi sound card and sli 8600 video cards

        Is this the kind of machine you need to run Vista decently ?

        On that kind of hardware I could install Kubuntu then Asterisk and build a PBX for an office of at least 300 agents, put a TV card in and install MythTV so I can watch shows on MY schedule, configure Samba to act as the domain controller with roaming profiles for the agent's desktop machines (if they are running Windows), s

  • by Alsee (515537) on Wednesday March 12, 2008 @08:43PM (#22734610) Homepage
    Windows XP was released Q4 2001,
    Windows Vista was released Q1 2007,
    Windows 7 is scheduled for Q4 2009,
    Windows 8 is scheduled for Q1 2011,
    Windows 9 is scheduled for Q4 2011,
    Windows 10 is scheduled for Q1 2012.
    Windows 11 and 12 are scheduled for Q2 2012,

    -
    • by click2005 (921437) on Wednesday March 12, 2008 @09:23PM (#22734892)
      Windows 13, 14, 15, 16 & 17 in Q3 2012...

      By Q1 2014 Windows will be on version 791.

      1 week later Windows Update will begin a constant update process that never ends.
      It will continue to consume all resources and hardware added to all nearby hardware until it achieves critical mass.
      These individual Windows 'Mersenne' installations will because of gravity begin to drift towards each other, merging
      into one giant super-bloat. This will become the next version of windows nicknamed 'Neutron'. This will slowly begin
      to assimilate all matter on Earth followed by the rest of the solar system (except Mercury... Steve 'Sweaty' Ballmer needs
      somewhere Hell-like to vacation) and then the Orion Arm. The final version of Windows will be a super-massive black hole
      know as Singularity. Unfortunately Singularity will never get past beta status as anyone attempting to use it's UI (known
      as Hawking Radiation) will be sucked in. Around this time, the EU will finally get around to fining Microsoft $11 billion
      for monopoly violations and destroying the planet and its competition.

      Linux will continue to exist and evolve into a single particle of anti-matter floating through space until it crashes into Vger.
    • Re: (Score:2, Redundant)

      by r_jensen11 (598210)

      Windows XP was released Q4 2001,
      Windows Vista was released Q1 2007,
      Windows 7 is scheduled for Q4 2009

      Ignoring fact-checking and that Vista was more than 2 years past due; if Windows 7 comes out on time, wouldn't that mean that there is virtually no incentive for companies to switch to Vista? I know that corporations are very conservative and rarely jump ship to a new technology when it's untested, but seeing how much/little Microsoft's done to smooth out quirks with Vista, methinks that companies wouldn't have many more problems if they jumped over Vista to Windows 7, and it would also cut down on re-tra

      • by Maxmin (921568)
        The fact that Windows 7 is coming out soonish gives credence to the rumour that it's a re-dressed Vista with lower hardware requirements.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by ozmanjusri (601766)
        wouldn't that mean that there is virtually no incentive for companies to switch to Vista?

        There's no incentive now. Releasing Windows 7 won't change that.

    • by mcrbids (148650)
      Ok, so they're submitting Windows 7? Knowing that we start with Windows 3.x, we should probably assume:

      Windows 3.x = the first windows that didn't completely AND utterly suck. Windows 3.11 only completely sucked.

      Windows 4.x = Windows NT/2000/XP.

      Windows 5.x = Windows 95/98/ME

      Windows 6.x = Windows Vista

      My guess, anybody care to confirm?
      • by perlchild (582235)
        I remember windows 5 being NT(code name cairo, so what became 2000, but announced in 1997), 95 was windows 4(both were worked on at almost the same time, but had different code lineage)
        No idea which one was 6, but vista could make it, if you include all the features they took out. It's funny that vista is the first version of windows that included features NOT on the 1997 list, so it could be the 6.0/

        P.S. the actual version numbers were included in release documents from microsoft at one point, we shouldn'
      • by EvilIdler (21087)
        Win2000 and XP both have 5.x version numbers. Look at any MS DLL.
        95/98/ME is a different family. The current Windows versions are
        all descendants of NT.
  • Wrong attitude (Score:1, Informative)

    by calebt3 (1098475)

    Lets hope Microsoft learns some lessons from the "Vista Capable" dilemma!!
    Let's not. Consumers have to have a limit to the abuse they are willing to take somewhere (probably hovering near infinity, but every little bit helps).
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by rob1980 (941751)
      Yes, God forbid a company should reform its bad behavior and be better corporate citizens. Can't have that, can we?
  • bittorrent leak in 5, 4, 3, 2....
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Think about it... If Vista proves Microsoft can't control the market, and force people to buy it, problems solved!
    • by DAldredge (2353)
      Vista both sold more copies and had more revenue in it's first year than OSX and all the commercial linux distros put together.
  • by BroadbandBradley (237267) on Wednesday March 12, 2008 @08:51PM (#22734678) Homepage
    A big part of antitrust is windows overrides default browsers and such, and forces it's own bundled applications on the user by making it difficult to discover how to make your software run well on the OS when it's not clearly documented (secret hooks only available to MS).

    If windows media player is able to achieve better performance through some type of black magic that other media players don't have access to, how will this be tested on a pre-release secret platform? Same with browsers, office suites, or any other MS application.

    Have these copies been distributed with the complete source code so secrets can be uncovered? Even if that was the case, who would pay for the man hours to sift through millions of lines of code? Even with a full source code audit, the released binaries could be completely different anyhow.

    I think the only solution to restore fair competition is massive fines that go directly to marketing and development of competing platforms. Paying consumers who have been locked into the MS trap still leaves them trapped.
     
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by wizardforce (1005805)
      fines don't mean anything when years of monopolistic business practices are punished by taking about a week's worth of cash from MS. the best solution of them all is to just break the fscking company into many different pieces and make damn sure they don't reassemble like AT&T did. when you have the company producing the OS competing with another that makes applications with another that handles gaming etc. the OS company *could* try locking people into their OS with APIs but the software fragment wo
      • by unfunk (804468)
        the problem with the "let's break up Microsoft into its various components" argument is that the Windows and Office divisions make so much money that they prop up the other divisions. It was aaaaages before the Hardware division made money, but now I wouldn't give up my MS keyboard and mouse if you paid me to. The XBox and XBox360 are proven money sinks too, for the time being. This is not to mention really cool shit like Live Labs [live.com] and Microsoft Research [microsoft.com]...
        • the problem with the "let's break up Microsoft into its various components" argument is that the Windows and Office divisions make so much money that they prop up the other divisions.

          I don't see why that is a problem. Dozens of promising companies have been purchased by Microsoft and their innovative ideas then never saw the light of day. If MS is using money from their monopolies to prop up unprofitable enterprises in other markets, then it is a good thing for those businesses to be forced to profit or fail on their own as it will drive them to innovate.

  • by WillAffleckUW (858324) on Wednesday March 12, 2008 @08:53PM (#22734688) Homepage Journal
    From the business pages of the Wall Street Journal, it appears that many countries in the EU are ditching Microsoft and going with Linux.

    So one wonders if this will all become moot at some point, as the invisible hand of the marketplace chooses a wiser solution.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by hany (3601)

      Yup, market will choose a better solution. But it takes sooooooooo looooooooong. :/

    • From the business pages of the Wall Street Journal, it appears that many countries in the EU are ditching Microsoft and going with Linux.

      It is possible. Choosing to walk away from Windows or at least MS product lock-in formats is the closest thing the EU has done to an effective anti-trust remedy against MS.

      So one wonders if this will all become moot at some point, as the invisible hand of the marketplace chooses a wiser solution.

      The point of monopolies is that for any given user/consumer the monopolist can make the wisest decision be to choose them, regardless of the real merits of the products offered. A monopolist undermines the free, capitalist market by introducing artificial problems with competing products. Some are very simple such as IE. In a normal,

  • by SpeedyDX (1014595) <speedyphoenix@NOspAM.gmail.com> on Wednesday March 12, 2008 @08:53PM (#22734700)
    Dilemma. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
    • by cromar (1103585)
      The Oxford American Dictionary entry for dilemma really cracks me up :) Apparently the misuse of the word can be traced back as far as the 17th century...
  • Code Names? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Roadmaster (96317) <roadmr@tomechang ... 14a.com minus pi> on Wednesday March 12, 2008 @08:58PM (#22734738) Homepage Journal
    So, back when Windows had lame numbered version numbers (Win95, NT 4.0) it had jazzy codenames like Chicago, Cairo and whatnot. Now, that the official releases have jazzy official names (Vista, XP, whatnot) codenames have turned into... WINDOWS 7? so what gives?

    • by MightyYar (622222) on Wednesday March 12, 2008 @09:10PM (#22734826)

      so what gives?
      Chicago, Detroit, Nashville, Daytona, Cairo, Whistler... all city names. And now, Windows 7.

      It's either the sad descent of a formerly energized company into a plodding circle of despair, or... an ominous hint of sinister plans to take over and rename a major city.
      • by ari_j (90255)
        It's neither. What's actually going on is that Microsoft has unbundled the code name components of Windows. Now, you can get a value-added code name add-on pack. Once you install the add-on, you will have Windows 7 "BFE", properly named after a city as you'd expect and wish you had received with the core OS like you did in prior versions.
      • Welcome to Windows 17. We hope your stay is a pleasant one.

        It's safer here.
    • Now, that the official releases have jazzy official names (Vista, XP, whatnot) codenames have turned into... WINDOWS 7? so what gives?
      Microsoft copies Apple again. As I understand it, Apple didn't start marketing Mac OS with numbers in earnest until System 7 (1991) [wikipedia.org].
    • So, back when Windows had lame numbered version numbers (Win95, NT 4.0) it had jazzy codenames like Chicago, Cairo and whatnot. Now, that the official releases have jazzy official names (Vista, XP, whatnot) codenames have turned into... WINDOWS 7? so what gives?
      Welcome! Welcome to City 17 ... It's safe here ...
  • It's a "dilemma" only if you look at your customers as cash cows and don't give a damn about their interests.
  • by Whuffo (1043790) on Wednesday March 12, 2008 @09:17PM (#22734862) Homepage Journal
    Anyone who has been around for a while knows that there's a wide gap between when MS projects a new product being released and when it actually gets shipped. And then a third date when they actually finish the product and ship the service packs to make it work right.

    So why worry about Windows 7 now? It's years away - and it'll be essentially stillborn when it finally does arrive. By then, other better alternatives will be readily available for a far, far lower price.

  • 2009/2010? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Zero_DgZ (1047348) on Wednesday March 12, 2008 @09:31PM (#22734926)
    So that's it? All that to-do about Vista and how it's the Next Big Thing and it's slated to be replaced by "Windows 7" inside of a year and some change from now? That'll mean that Windows Vista was in production longer than it will be in service.
  • If they try to build Windows 7 on top of Vista the way Millennium built on Windows 98, they're doomed.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Timbotronic (717458)
      TFA quotes an analyst who thinks it'll be built on Server 2008 with a significantly pared down UI. That's actually very good news - the MinWin kernel [arstechnica.com] may be nothing new to Unix users but it's a very welcome break from the bloat of Vista.
      • by hyades1 (1149581)

        I hope you're right. In view of other statements in the article, I thought it unwise to give a great deal of credibility to what is at best third-hand information, or even outright speculation. Nobody sourced the TC or Microsoft, even indirectly, for a Windows 7 - Server 2008 link.

        That said, such a move would make excellent sense. I was one of the unfortunates who had to use Millennium until I made a brief stop at Windows 2000 on my way to XP Pro. It was a good, solid OS that did everything the compa

      • TFA quotes an analyst who thinks it'll be built on Server 2008 with a significantly pared down UI. That's actually very good news - the MinWin kernel may be nothing new to Unix users but it's a very welcome break from the bloat of Vista.

        I'm not sure how the first statement is relevant to the rest of your post, since Windows Server 2008 is, under the hood, pretty much the same as Vista SP1 (so much so that when you check the OS version, it'll say 2008 SP1...). So whatever technological problems exist in Vis

  • Great. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Kanasta (70274) on Wednesday March 12, 2008 @09:36PM (#22734962)
    So now the US government is reduced to doing testing and QA for Microsoft!
  • by moosesocks (264553) on Wednesday March 12, 2008 @09:44PM (#22734990) Homepage
    What exactly does this discussion have to do with the "Vista Capable" debacle?

    Sure, Vista is a slow, bloated operating system that offers very few tangible improvements over its predecessor.

    However, the "Vista Capable" debacle grew out of the fact that Microsoft's marketing droids decided to vastly overstate Vista's ability to run over slow hardware.

    Had Microsoft been a bit more conservative with their estimates (subtly admitting that their operating system is a cow), there never would have been a legal issue. Vista on its own isn't a great product, although its faults do not constitute a breach of the law (had the product been absurdly unstable or insecure, that might have been the case, although by most accounts, Vista either holds the line or improves over XP in these regards).

    TFA discusses the possible engineering & design decisions that are being put into Windows 7 as new features. Odds are that many of these features haven't even been coded. Likewise, given that the design document has *just* been finalized, I can't imagine that the marketing guys have had much (if any) time to figure out how to spin the new product.

    Here's a hint: Look at the features that were dropped from Vista (some of them were actually quite innovative).

    Personally, I hope that Windows 7 is a decent, solid operating system, and corrects for Vista's faults. Microsoft has had a tendency to appropriately compensate if one of their products flops. NT4 spawned into a beautiful desktop-ready os with the release of Win2k, and after destroying all evidence that Windows Me! ever existed, Microsoft launched XP, which is arguably the most successful desktop operating system to date.

    Also, Apple needs a kick in the pants. They're getting complacent, and the Quality Control on the last few releases of OS X have been abysmal by their former standards.
    • by unfunk (804468)

      Personally, I hope that Windows 7 is a decent, solid operating system, and corrects for Vista's faults. Microsoft has had a tendency to appropriately compensate if one of their products flops. NT4 spawned into a beautiful desktop-ready os with the release of Win2k, and after destroying all evidence that Windows Me! ever existed, Microsoft launched XP, which is arguably the most successful desktop operating system to date.

      Thankfully, the biggest difference between WinME and Vista is that Vista actually does some things really, really well. WinME didn't even do a good job of being shit - it 'sorta worked' most of the time - even I can make an OS that doesn't work at all!

  • tried windows vista and they've already got win7?
  • by Zhe Mappel (607548) on Wednesday March 12, 2008 @10:52PM (#22735434)
    With Microsoft having been chosen as the exclusive Homeland Security contractor, what is the point of this pretense over antitrust? Even before this absurd contract, it was cogently pointed out (by Ralph Nader and Jamie Love; see: http://www.linux.com/feature/23279 [linux.com]) that the government shouldn't be putting its eggs and our tax dollars in the Microsoft basket. Now, of course, Washington is in bed with the devil. And it's pretty hard to tell the devil he's not a good lay.
  • this annoys me... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by unfunk (804468) on Thursday March 13, 2008 @01:58AM (#22736392) Journal
    ...and I'm sure I'm going to have half of slashdot jumping down my throat, calling me a Microsoft Sympathiser for saying this, but...

    ...shit like third parties having their way with Windows is probably a very big reason why Vista isn't as great as it could be. The media companies stuck their big noses in, and we got Protected Media Pathway or whatever it's called... I can't copy files around my computer without Windows having to check for copy protection or whatever it's doing, and the antitrust-friendly "Default Programs" thing has somehow managed to make it harder to set file associations than before.

    The thing with Vista is; what it does well, it's really really good at. Windows Explorer finally does what I want it to do, and the audio mixing panel is a boon from the gods... it's just that all this is overshadowed by the stuff it doesn't do well, which is arguably not entirely Microsoft's fault.

    I'd like to see what Vista would have been like if everybody kept their noses out of it during development.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      ...and I'm sure I'm going to have half of slashdot jumping down my throat, calling me a Microsoft Sympathiser for saying this, but... ...shit like third parties having their way with Windows is probably a very big reason why Vista isn't as great as it could be.

      I understand your argument and it does make sense. I even agree that some of the new features in Vista are better than what is offered by the competition (I submitted feature requests to both Kubuntu and OS X and Windows asking for those types of audio controls years ago). I think where we disagree is that you seem to have some sort of an idea that antitrust regulation is supposed to be hurting MS and making their products worse or something.

      The point of antitrust actions is to force a company to compe

  • If you are still caught up in this MSFT vs the rest of the world BS, you have not learned anything. When did the gov't start looking into their practices? Yesterday? I think not. By now any normal person who uses Windows should know the BS that MSFT has continuously provided in a nice and a very expensive wrapper. You have to be out of your fucking mind to believe that the latest version of the OS provided by MSFT will be bug free. The software is bloated and always late. MS Office crashes and your work

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