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Transportation

Reaction Engines plan Mach 5 Airliner 221

What is? writes "A British company has designed an eco-friendly airliner that could make a trip from London to Sydney in under five hours. Reaction Engines has received funding from the European Space Agency to design the plane as part of the Long-Term Advanced Propulsion Concepts and Technologies project. The A2 airliner would be capable of carrying 300 passengers at speeds of up to Mach 5."
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Reaction Engines plan Mach 5 Airliner

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  • Nothing New (Score:5, Interesting)

    by lymond01 ( 314120 ) on Wednesday February 06, 2008 @12:56PM (#22322366)
    Lots of people have websites with cool drawings [google.com] of fast planes. I scanned the material on their site and didn't see anything concerning a flux capacitor, so my cynicism is slightly abated.
  • by Penguinisto ( 415985 ) on Wednesday February 06, 2008 @01:01PM (#22322454) Journal
    The original SST project (US) never got off the ground, and the Concorde was nothing more than a status symbol for those who could afford the ungodly high ticket price for the NYC-London (or Paris) run. The Soviet version (TU-144?) only had a limited set of routes as well, and Aeroflot killed it off (IIRC) about the same time the USSR crashed.

    The issues boiled down to two things that no amount of tech could alleviate: Noise issues (property owners near the airports got highly vocal about having to replace cracked windows from the occasional sonic booms), and price ($25k 1st class from NYC to Paris? And now you get to suffer the indignities of airport security too? Sounds like a masochist's dream come true...)

    Unless/until they solve at least those two issues (in spite of public pronouncement, it doesn't look like they have IMHO - yet), they're going to have a hard time with it's initial public image, fuel economy be damned.

    Sure the economics of volume may drop the price, and sure the noise problem can be solved through strict pilot discipline (e.g. no cracking the sound barrier until you're x miles away and at y altitude), but that won't change public perception that Concorde planted firmly in the public mind back during the 1970's).

    OTOH, the tech is cool, and I can see a very solid use for it for trans-pacific passengers... Seattle to Tokyo in 3 hours instead of 12? Frickin' awesome...

    /P

  • by explosivejared ( 1186049 ) <hagan@jared.gmail@com> on Wednesday February 06, 2008 @01:06PM (#22322518)
    If I remember correctly, math as well as NIMBY's contributed to the Concorde's poor effect on the environment. People weren't too keen on having sonic booms regularly occur over their neighborhoods as widespread commercial adoption occured, so Concorde flights had to take care to avoid disturbing high population areas. Any gains that this plan makes in engine efficiency will probably be offset by having to reconfigure flight plans from the most efficient to the least bothersome for residents.

    I just don't think there is a commercial viability for supersonic flight. The need to decrease flight times from 20 hours to 5 hours is just not enough of an incentive to cover all the associated investments and pitfalls of implementation.
  • by sundru ( 709023 ) on Wednesday February 06, 2008 @01:14PM (#22322602)
    It is possible with a carefully planned trajectory not to use the amount of fuel ur talking about.

    I think the objective is to cruise in very rarified or no atmosphere while flights like the concorde cruised @ 18kms
    this would be close to 70-80 kms or near the karman line. The dynamics would be vastly different.

    the engines would have to be hybrid between a rocket engine and ram assisted engine rarified and atmospheric operation.

    Although i can still see a problem in "reentry" hopefully they figure out a way to slow down and somehow expand the
    wing area to sustain low speed flights.

    Technical risks are high but it is possible.

    -Sundara

  • Thunderbirds are go! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by jaweekes ( 938376 ) on Wednesday February 06, 2008 @01:28PM (#22322770)
    It looks like the plane Fireflash [sfdaydreams.com] in one of the Thunderbird's [thunderbirdsonline.co.uk] shows. Okay, the engines are under the wings and not on the tail, but that's about it.
  • build soundproof tunnels in the sky that the planes can fly through.

    You joke, but I've often considered the idea of creating super-sonic mass-transit systems between cities. The idea that I visualize in my head is having a vacuum-sealed tube through which magnetically driven cars pass. Each mag-car would act as a ferry for one or more conventional vehicle. You'd drive your car into the station, drive onto the open mag-car platform, the mag-car would be sealed and pressurized, then moved into the launch queue. When your turn comes up, the mag-car moved through an airlock into the transit tube. The tube is kept in a state of low-pressure (perhaps even a near-vacuum) to allow the cars to move at high speeds with lower energy expenditures.

    As soon as you're through the airlock and into the transit tube, the mag-car is driven on the magnetic rails to high speeds. You are blasted to your destination in as little as a few minutes to an hour. When you arrive, the mag-car slows, moves into an airlock, exits the tube, unseals, and you are free to drive your vehicle off the platform. The platform is then replenished with air tanks and sent back with a new passenger from whence it came.

    Rather than having every city connect to every city, large cities would be connected to the nearest large city. Which would have commuters changing over from tube to tube at each city in order to reach farther cities. When they reach the city nearest their destination, they exit the station and drive the remainder of the distance. Total travel time for even the longest car trip would be cut by hours if not days.

    That being said, it's just a sci-fi dream. It's possible, but there are some very real engineering and market forces working against such a project. :-)

  • by turgid ( 580780 ) on Wednesday February 06, 2008 @02:10PM (#22323258) Journal

    The last major triumphs of British engineering to actually get built were Concorde and the Advanced Gas-cooled Reactors.

    Ever since then the can't-do-won't-do attitude of Britain's "financial service economy" curtails any great technological projects. The only things that get built are science projects, with meager government funding.

    Reaction Engines/Bristol Spaceplanes have some very interesting engine designs like SABRE. These are the people who designed the RB545 for Hotol (another great British triumph of procrastination over achievement).

    Mark my words, this will sit firmly on the drawing board and will probably be reinvented in 20-30 years by the Chinese. The American's won't have it since they didn't invent it.

    It sucks to be British unless you're in Banking or Insurance. Still, mustn't grumble. At least we're not French or German or foreign. Time for a nice cup of tea and a sit down.

  • by caffeineboy ( 44704 ) <{ude.uso} {ta} {22.eromdiks}> on Wednesday February 06, 2008 @02:33PM (#22323516)
    It might be splitting hairs, but most of our hydrogen comes from steam reformation of methane, not from electrolysis of water.

    Your point about electric cars I don't really get. Sure you have a longer tailpipe with an electric car, but if your thermal efficiency and CO2 or whatever pollutant you care about per mile is less, you are still winning. There are other technical challenges for electric cars, and a lot of people might not see that you have to look at the bigger picture, but even when you do EVs look pretty good.

    reference on EVs here [evworld.com]

    and yes I recognize that is an EV advocacy site, but their point is correct. IC engines have a thermal efficiency of about 15% or less. It's not hard to beat that with a stationary plant.

    Now, about the present article - I'd like to see some analyses that say that you can actually fly a supersonic plane a good distance on hydrogen, and how the hell you think you can make that economical.
  • by Urban Garlic ( 447282 ) on Wednesday February 06, 2008 @02:42PM (#22323624)
    The engine-noise problem (as distinct from the sonic-boom problem) has a fascinating feedback loop in it, which made the Boeing folks crazy during the American SST project in the 1960s. The problem is, every time you develop some engine technology which mitigates the high-exhaust-velocity issue and its attendant noise problem, some clever engineer applies that same solution to the already-quieter subsonic jets. Then the regulators notice that airliners are much quieter now, and implement stricter noise constraints, which are easily met by low-exhaust-velocity + noise-reduction-technology aircraft, but can not be met by the supersonic high-exhaust-velocity + noise-reduction-technology aircraft.

    So noise becomes a moving target, driven forward by your own advances to try to reach it.

    This is discussed in detail in Erik M. Conway's terrific book, High Speed Dreams [amazon.com].
  • by astro_Hels ( 1234514 ) on Wednesday February 06, 2008 @03:04PM (#22323952)
    The A2 vehicle uses four Scimitar engines which are essentially precooled turbo-ramjets. These allow the A2 to fly hypersonically as well as fly economically and quietly subsonically. There is no 'rocket' phase. A hybrid precooled active compression and rocket engine is used on the Skylon SSTO vehicle as designed by Reaction Engines. Precooled engines are the key technologies here and you can learn more about them from the Reaction Engines website. The A2 is the result of a detailed analytical study as requested by the EU, which includes all the manufacturing and operational considerations. The decision to pursue this project will be subject to the economic production of Hydrogen fuel and of course whether people decide there is an appropriate market for it. The current ticket cost would be no more than business class at todays prices. You should get reading about the Skylon spaceplane as the purpose of this vehicle is to provide economic access to low earth orbit, allowing far more science to be conducted for the same cost and resource than is currently possible with expendible launch vehicles.
  • by Rene S. Hollan ( 1943 ) on Wednesday February 06, 2008 @05:08PM (#22325572)
    I'd wager, based on the "programmer" job candidates I've interviewed over the years, that the average /.er couldn't bubble sort themselves out of a paper bag.

    Over some 20 years, I met one, count 'em one candidate who correctly coded a Shell sort without blinking in an interview.

    My question is basic, "Code a routine to sort a set of objects of any type of your chosing, based on a means of ordering them (comparison function). Use the language of your choice. The routine should be correct, and you be able to describe it's worst-case performance in O(n) notation. It need not be the most effective way of doing it."

    Unfortunately, the candidate above made the fatal interview mistake of expounding on his personal school project "FTP server with dynamically loadable file-type handlers, based on requested file extensions" (to dynamically generate content based on extension), as a "servlet-supporting FTP server" to a different interviewer -- with a marketing backround -- who, for some reason, was trying to conduct a technical interview, when he should have been getting a feel for the candidates business sense.

    This other interviewer dismissed the candidate as a fraud because "everyone knows" that web servers use servlets and ftp servers "don't".

    Sadly, we had a policy where every interviewer had to "green light" a candidate for them to be hired.

    And people wonder why so much software is crap.

I have hardly ever known a mathematician who was capable of reasoning. -- Plato

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