The Cult of Kindle 283
DaMan writes "ZDNet's Hardware 2.0 blog is pondering the Kindle this week. There have been many attempts at an ebook reader in the past; why does Amazon think it can do any better? Given the high cost and DRM issues, will cachet be enough to win them financial success? Will the 'Cult of Kindle' help guarantee Amazon's success in the ebook reader market? 'A group of people willing to give it a five star rating just because someone else didn't, willing to back up every design, engineering and marketing decision that Amazon made, willing to defend the Kindle with their last dying breath. The Kindle doesn't cost money, it saves money. That 0.75 second flash as the pages turn isn't a downside because it gives you an opportunity to take in the previous page. It doesn't harm your eyes, in fact, it fixes them. Ergonomic issues that other reviewers have bought up are dismissed by the Cult of Kindle as flaws with the reviewer, not the device. The Kindle is perfect, and the Kindle 2.0 will be a little more perfect.'"
Manufacturer (Score:5, Funny)
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They're called fanboys (Score:5, Funny)
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Fanboys is one thing .. but it sure didn't take long for someone to label them a "cult". I personally was very excited about the device until I learned about its DRM and behavior-watching aspects. That is enough to make me warn people away from the device.
I think the best thing for the ebook industry would be for Apple to release a tablet-style device for this purpose. DRM would be tolerable (and fully circumventable), the device's design would be much more elegant and practical, and it would operate much
Lol, I bought the Sony ebook reader (Score:3, Informative)
Of course I have no GSM in the reader, but I don't need it, do I ?
and you have a plethora of tools working under linux to make your books and mangas compatible.
300US $. and then you take the books wherever you want, even on Sony's book library (bastards offer you "free" books from their "classical collection", everything you can get for free on Gutemberg...).
So, Kindle was a miss for me. I don't need a gad
Re:Lol, I bought the Sony ebook reader (Score:5, Informative)
If you haven't seen this baby [wikipedia.org] you really should take a look, and be sure to click through to some of the photographs of it with the link at the bottom.
I absolutely will not, under any circumstances, willingly purchase a device that uses DRM or locks me into using one vendor to buy books the way Amazon's Kindle does. Not when it's so easy to make a device that does what I want it to do instead of what the vendor wants to be done to me.
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Would be nice just to have a device that reads html and PDF without the DRM crap.
For me the backlight is missing. I know it is to reduce eye strain, but it would be a good feature too.
Re:They're called fanboys (Score:5, Insightful)
Battery life with a backlight is a whole different issue.
That being said, as much as it pains me to say I'd rather by the Sony e-reader than the Kindle. Somehow it just seems less restrictive.... who would have thought Sony would get it more right than Amazon.com?
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I really want a reader that can zoom-in and out of PDFs, search on its contents and pretend to be both a usb disk when you want to transfer files and a printer when you just need to print something to it (where it becomes a PDF file you can read from the disk part) and that doesn't cost more than a fully functional notebook computer.
Is that too much to
PDF won't happen for a while (Score:3, Informative)
> and Sony's offerings more or less useless.
Two factors prevent this in the current generation. The e-ink screens are SLOW. Not lcd slow, but hundreds of milliseconds slow. Panning and scrolling around a PDF would be a nightmare and the current generation is orders of magnitude to low in both the resolution and size departments to present an 8.5x11" page in a readable form.
Then there
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I already don't take much time for a single page of a paperback, but while I think that a paperback has an acceptable amount of text on a page, I don't see how something with like 25% of display area would be good.
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There's a eBook reader for the touch/iPhone (Score:2)
Overall, I'm pretty happy with my iPhone as a single-gadget solution. When I had a Treo, I appreciated the ability to read eBooks on my phone, (my main non-phone use) but really wasn't too happy with the browser experience. Having the ability to use OWA to check my work email wasn't an option with the (lame) Palm browser, whi
Re:They're called fanboys (Score:5, Funny)
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I have a Zune and actually do really like it. I recommend it to others who are looking for a portable music/media player. I don't go around ranting and attacking those who would detract from it though. Maybe i just don't have the drive to be a decent fanboy...
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One thing which does annoy me about it is that you have to do a registry hack just to make it visible and explorable as an external HD which I think all MP3 players should do by default for interoperability.
Article is Flamebait! (Score:5, Informative)
Disclaimer: I've never used the product in question or even amazon.com for that matter. This was just a particular revolting piece of garbage.
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Re:Article is Flamebait! (Score:5, Insightful)
Slashdot is a discussion site, not a news site, if you haven't realized yet.
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I do a lot of traveling and invariably end up taking a paperback and hardback with me and have been looking at readers for some time. I was getting close to buying the Sony 505, and then read up on the Kindle. *For me*, it fits my needs.
Is there great stuff about the Kindle? Yeah! is there mediocre to bad stuff ($400 price)? Sure thing. But in the creature comfort/benefit
Will they ever listen? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Will they ever listen? (Score:5, Interesting)
To be fair, it's also a cell phone that you can't make or receive calls with.
I wonder how much more affordable the Kindle could have been if they had cut the EV-DO radio and network stack from the hardware design, and didn't have to incorporate the cost of a lifetime service agreement with Sprint into the price of the unit?
People don't seem to have any problem plugging their MP3 players into a USB port every once in a while to synchronize new content; so who decided that it customers would not tolerate doing the same thing with an e-Book reader?
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People typically don't add new music to their usual playlists very often (weekly if you're young, hardly ever if you're old?), but many people read daily periodicals. More and more people are starting to read things like blogs, which update several times daily... (And I'm not talking abour web surfing here.. Just reading static content on one site.)
Re:Will they ever listen? (Score:5, Interesting)
What people REALLY want is something e-paper about 13x19 tabloid size at 300dpi & reflective that can roll up. Better yet, have 2-3 that network to share a books on different pages. The current e-books are too small to be useful for anything other than reading sitting down.. like a book, and don't have things like tabs to mark sections of multiple open books. For most "geeks" to use this instead of books (like say O'Reilly material) you'd need to have 6-10 books open and 5 places bookmarked in each with both pages visible and stacked so you can quickly switch between them... just like a stack of real book when working on a project. It also needs to be the 13x19 because without that it eliminates using it for any kind of blueprint/charting work (another thing people would pay big $$ for)
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What happens when an accident occurs and you break the thing, or it's stolen? Even if you backed up your ebooks, they're now useless to you, and you're out $400+Books, rather than just $400, or even ~$40 for the 4-5 books you can carry around(or 1-2 hardcovers).
That would kill it right there for me. Fortuantly, my books have no DRM*.
You'd be better off to have some sort of account type system like iTunes. As a bonus, if your reader is s
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I've been assuming this is a DRM issue. If you control the media-insertion path (fnarr), then you've got a better shot at keeping the DRM from being cracked, because the user never has unrestricted access to the media-plus-key, and therefore can't attempt to separate the media fr
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That's what really disturbs me about the always-on
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This device can save storage space for books! That is the key selling feature to us. I agreed to it because I mostly buy computer books and Amazon actually has some. The sony product only has idiots and dummies books. It is limited t
Re:Will they ever listen? (Score:5, Insightful)
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That attempt at sarcasm would be funny, except that people never did come around to radio on the TV. TV developed its own content while radio maintained its dominance of music until the CD era. You lose more funny points by failing to note that radio is still a major form of portable music for most people, and for the same reasons that books are still the dominant for
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Many people I know (including myself) who love books and want to love an ebook reader. Some day an ebook reader will succeed. We just haven't had one with all of the right features yet.
I don't think $400 is too outrageous, but $200 would be better. The wireless features are a huge step in the right direction... But they still need to work on contrast, page turning speed, size, style, battery life (for an ebook reader this better be measured in "years". As an integer >= 1), capa
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They're trying for the next iPod. Wouldn't you? (Score:4, Funny)
Amazon has been watching the iPod and iPhone phenomena, and it wants the same thing. What company wouldn't? Whatever you say about Apple, they know how to make stuff sell.
The quote above is exactly the fanboi-ism that Amazon is looking for: "This gadget has absolutely no flaws, except for whatever Amazon deems are flaws, and then we will curse those flaws after the fact."
Re:They're trying for the next iPod. Wouldn't you? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Your missing the point. When Apple licensed one click [ecommercetimes.com], neither Jobs nor Bezos wanted to spend any real money, so they decided on a technology swap. The onl
What about PDAs? (Score:4, Insightful)
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I don't need the high res, the black and white eink displays are easy on the eyes. Try reading an entire novel on your PDA. The battery won't last through the entire book yet it will with one of these.
The kindle though is fugly. It looks like MSFt designed it. Illiad isn't bad but way t
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Try reading an entire novel on your PDA. The battery won't last through the entire book yet it will with one of these.
Ever since I got my Palm Zire (Im on my second now), my "books read per year" has improved greatly.
Grant you, the small screen and 320x320 resolution takes time to get used to, but I can read almost any format (some need converting, but that's quite easy), but its cheaper than the Kindle and I can read any book I want, not only those that Amazon wants to sell me at a paperback price.
Re:What about PDAs? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:What about PDAs? (Score:4, Interesting)
Because the TX has a weeny little screen and some of us are old enough not to want to stare at weeny little screens for hours on end. Sure, I've read books on my Palm (a TX in fact), but it's not my Reader of Choice (which is, in fact, a paper book).
I'm not particularly interested in doing anything with a Kindle other than disassembling it, but a decent E-reader just has to appear Real Soon Now (TM).
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Gah! Why does this have to come up every single time?!?!? It's very simple: Different people like different stuff! OK?
I've toyed with reading ebooks for over a decade--with my old Palm, with an Axim (with a gorgeous 640x480--200 DPI!!!--screen), and with my iPhone. None of them are any good for me. (Key words there--for me.) They don't show enough text at once and I just can't read it comfortably: I'm eit
As someone said before... (Score:2)
Then, an ebook reader [eink device]is not for you. (Score:5, Interesting)
If you think this, then it is clear that this technology is not for you. I read a lot of this in slashdot but what people fail to see is that there is a specific market for this kind of devices. Specially for the ones that allow making some kind of notes.
As an example, both of my parents are biologists (they go to field trips to that strange place called "the nature" quite often). They sometimes stay camping when doing field trips which are usually done to catalogue species and the like. One of the main problems in those trips is that students may have to take their field guides (which are supposed to be special editions for field work but, are akin to our "SQL pocket edition " manuals, with lots and lots of pages). The problem is that sometimes they have to take two or three guides with them making it really painful to pack 5 Kgs of books...
Now, they usually can not take a laptop because trips last for a lot of time, and they need access to the books quite often. Hence, a laptop which battery lasts for 4 hours at *most* wont be useful. However a device which lasts 15 hours or more will be very very useful.
That is why, when I showed my parents and my flatmate (who is a zoologist) the OLPC, they got fascinated as it really solves quite a lot of problems for them. Specially, my flatmate goes into the Selva Lacandona and stays there camping and examining animals for weeks. A computer which can be powered by turning a crank and which power lasts longer (they do not need fancy graphics, even black and white is great) will be the perfect sollution.
The problem is that from our closed computer cube world, this kind of devices only make sense as gizmos. But there *are* several uses for this technology.
Re:Then, an ebook reader [eink device]is not for y (Score:3, Funny)
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Use the Preview Button! Check those URLs!
Be careful of what you purchase (Score:3, Funny)
Attention reviewers buying ergonomic issues, I have a wonderful wholesale offer you can't refuse...
Paper Rules (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, you could argue, that an e-book could hold 10 million books. But, what of it? A book by itself is something that holds more than enough for you to read for a few hours, and you get the smell and feel of the paper, the binding, the immediacy, history and intimacy. An e-book is just another plastic appliance, lacking in craft.
Re:Paper Rules (Score:5, Funny)
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I applaud manufacturers of eReaders. A perfect one hasn't come out yet but each new model seems to learn from the mistakes of the last. Nevertheless, a mini tablet PC fits in my pocket better than one book, never mind ten million of them.
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If you are trying to provide an argument from the environmentalist angle I'd suggest you'd look more at the manufacturing process of the Kindle and its energy use as well.
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Why is that? We already grow lots of paper trees on paper tree farms, just like corn or wheat or whatever else.
Trees are EVIL (Score:5, Funny)
Trees are evil. They are always taller than we are, which means, they always look down on us. They hard and practically unbending, meaning they are inflexible.
They stand before humanity, and mock them, continually. And yet, you support these things?
I enjoy chopping down trees. The mighty axe puts any in its place, and I enjoy wood furniture and flooring as a symbol of my domination over nature.
Maybe not (Score:2)
I am not against tree farms, but if we could get away from using wood from generic mass produced items I think we would be better off.
OTOH, I love a good park.
"Most of that paper is farmed. I suppose next you'll be telling us we'll have to forgo the luxury of killing vegetables because they taste good."
if we could supplant them with a product that is cheaper sell, quicker to make,
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That's exactly what the slide rule and abacus devotees used to say about the computer. Fancy that.
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This boils down to a form vs. function matter. Reading is reading, whether in a book or on an ele
Speed without distraction (Score:2)
The Sony ebook reader, and apparently the Kindle, just isn't there yet: click "next page" and you have to wait, you can't just flip thru pages really really fast, and the page transition makes this horrible wierd flicker that lasts ju
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The problem is the technology involved. Devices like the iPod have been successful because it's impossible to play pre-recorded music without some kind of powered device (whether that power is provided by a battery, mains power or a hand crank). There's always been a need for some form of technology, and that technology has been evolving continuously for centuries.
Books don't require any powered device, meaning that the need for an e-reader just hasn't been there and hence very little development has ha
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Yes, you could argue, that the car is faster and more efficient. But what of it? A buggy by itself is something that works wel
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Wave line wavy line wavy line
YEAR: 1910--
"Yes, you could argue, that an automobile could travel at 10 miles an hour. But, what of it? A buggy whip by itself is something that you whip hard enough for you to get someplace in just a few hours, and you get the smell and feel of the leather, the horse, the immediacy, history and intimacy. An automobile is just another infernal contrivance, lacking in craft."
Bitter (Score:2)
Cult? (Score:2)
But does anyone else think that the Kindle looks like an all white speak-and-spell? It really looks like a cheap 90's designed kids toy to me. And not in a retro way -- in a Made-in-Taiwan kind of way.
Biased reviewers? This is news, how? (Score:2)
There is no objective reporting. You can only report your understanding, and while you can be well-informed and well-rounded, you can't avoid subjectivity entirely. (Don't tell Ayn Rand!) The best you can do is be up-front about where you're coming from
Prediction (Score:5, Interesting)
All eBook readers will come with heavy and draconian DRM (as mandated by the book agency) until one vendor (also with heavy and draconian DRM) significantly corners the market through a beautifully easy to use device, tied in store and large volume of works.
This one company won't licence their DRM to anyone else and uses their huge market presence to force book publishers to accept the price points and the restrictions they want.
Given that the only way to get books out to everyone with that reader and avoid partnering with the one big company, publishers will find themselves having to accept that they're going to have to start looking at DRM free books.
Sound familiar?
(All I can say is thank god for Apple not licensing their DRM. If they'd done a Microsoft and licensed it to everyone who asked, music publishers would never ever have been contemplating DRM free media)
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...until one vendor (also with heavy and draconian DRM) significantly corners the market through a beautifully easy to use device, tied in store and large volume of works.
Hmmm....who does this sound like? Apple, pay attention here. You're in a postition to totally take over this market, the way the ipod destroyed competition in the mobile mp3 player market. You already have the device (iPod/iPhone) that has a proven interface, reliability, and the hip/cool/somehow-still-elitist-even-though-everybody-has-one factor. You already built the store and delivery mechanism (iTunes) that everyone can use.
Apple, do you want to own a developing new market in a month, when oth
Readthemall (Score:2)
No other autoscrolling feature makes any se
Have used Kindle for 48 hours (Score:5, Informative)
In reading other reviews, I think most of the reviews I have read are talking about the "eBook" concept in general. That, to me, is separate from a review of the Kindle. I have no idea of "eBooks" will catch on, or if people will generally like them. If you like the idea of an eBook, I thought the Kindle implemented the eBook concept quite nicely.
I thought the platform was very nice. This is not a laptop, it is a book. And, for reading books, I thought it did a great job. I liked the the form factor for reading. It was comfortable to hold and comfortable for reading. I really liked the ability to "impulse buy" books. I only downloaded samples (as it wasn't my Kindle or Amazon account), but it was fast and enjoyable. I also liked the ability to change the font size. It allowed me to place the Kindle in a position that was comfortable on my arms and comfortable for my eyes. I really can't say I cared if it did PDF natively or not. I read PDF's on my laptop. I'm not sure why this has become some huge deal. I didn't feel Kindle was trying to replace all things paper.
Human Nature (Score:2)
Basically, these people have bought the kindle and like it, or at least don't hate it enough to throw it away. What they really DO like is the fact that buying it puts them in a group of people who have a cool device and therefore they get a feeling of belonging. They identify part of their own self-worth with the "coolness" and value of the device
My review... (Score:2)
It's a really neat device and if you're a bookworm and do any sort of commuting (where you can read) or traveling, this device will provide an endless amount of entertainment. As long as you're connected - my boss later found out that the Sprint network doesn't work at his house. My boss also doesn't like the ergonomics: when you turn it over to tur
Best eBook read ever (Score:2)
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Difference is title availability and price (Score:2)
There are two immense difference between the Kindle and all previous ventures.
First, the availability of titles is at least an order of magnitude larger than with any previous ventures. Themeans that the chances the title you want to buy is available is much higher.
In my informal personal tests a few years ago, I found that that about 3/4 of t
Hmmm (Score:2)
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At least according to Neil Gaiman:
"http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2007/11/me-in-manila.html"
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From a Sony E-reader user: they can be useful (Score:3, Insightful)
1. On vacation they're absolutely brilliant. I was out of the country for two weeks. The reader plus charger took almost no space, especially compared to the space ten or eleven books would have taken. I had my notebook with me as well, and was able to buy additional books -- which let me keep going on a series I particularly liked.
2. The slow page refresh isn't terrible, and I gather the Kindle is faster than the Sony.
3. I like the feel of the Sony reader. I suspect the Kindle is clunkier, but I defer to Pogue in the NYTimes who said it was fine. The screen works well in open daylight, and I quickly enough was able to ignore the medium and get into the content.
4. It looks like Amazon is given customers a price break on e-books. Sony charges as much as a paper book.
Bottom line: they're more useful than would appear to a non-user -- especially during travel.
And to the cult thing: I suspect like most people, I am not particularly loyal to any online store. I am willing to pay *slightly* higher prices to Amazon for both the convenience and their excellent handling of (very rare) problems.
Why I got a Kindle (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, why did I get the Kindle?
First of all, the argument that book-readers like physical books isn't always true. I read a lot of law books (big, heavy, unwieldy things that are miserable to handle). I need to read the content. I hate the physical book. I have to lug several around with me when I travel (my backpack is fantastically heavy) and I can't read them in bed without wearing out my arms after a few minutes. The Kindle solves all of these problems. This applies not just to law books, though. Even moderately heavy hard-backed books are difficult to read in bed for long durations.
As to the Kindle vs. other devices, I keep seeing people claiming that their iPhone is sufficient. Maybe they don't get eyestrain reading backlit lcds, but I do. The e-Paper is much easier on the eyes. It's not QUITE at the level of printed books (and you have to be a little forgiving of the typography--the Kindle doesn't seem to have a hyphenation dictionary), but I can read it for long durations without going blind.
Finally, the biggest attraction for the Kindle is that it has the books I want or need to read. Amazon has law books (at least some, and hopefully more will be coming soon). They also have novels, etc. that I want to read. I looked into other e-books in the past and the major reason I didn't get them (even if their specs are better on paper) is because they don't have the content I want or need. The Kindle (mostly) does.
As for the other issues, I would like PDF ability, but from what I understand there is no ebook reader that handles PDFs really well, and you CAN convert PDFs to Kindle's format if you need, though it is a hassle. The Kindle's web browser is decent, and makes a nice backup when I'm not around a WiFi spot, but there is Sprint service (and it's free). I also don't care about the looks of the Kindle (it actually looks better in person, I think, but even if it didn't, I want it for its function, not its form).
Sure, the Kindle isn't for everyone. If you read mostly paperback novels, one at a time, the Kindle isn't for you. If you read enormous, unwieldy books that you have to lug across the country when you go home for Christmas vacation so that you don't fail your exams, the Kindle is wonderful. Same if you don't travel, but just like to read big, bulky books without having to sit up. Anyway, yes, there are legitimate reasons for the Kindle.
*Yawn* (Score:2)
As for the idea that the Kindle "saves" money, it depends on whether the person with it primarily reads hardcover books they buy. If so, then it *might*. But that assumes the Kindle service doesn't disappear in four years, and it also assumes that readers are willing to pay for blogs and newspapers they mostly receive free online right now. In additio
Sony Reader is closer... (Score:3, Insightful)
The next version of the Sony Reader has the possibility to be great, but Sony will complicate it rather than refine it and won't come up with a reasonable DRM scheme (which, iTunes, despite it's wrinkles, is perhaps the most palatable today).
It's the price, stupid (Score:2)
All this hype now, positive and negative, only serves to keep the gadget in the limelight until the next generation is announced. That's when we'll see if it really has staying power, because like the iPod it should be tiered.
It'll be those budget models that makes or breaks it. Remove the EVDO connection, shrink the screen a bit, and get the price down to $99 for the "mini" optio
Re:What it doesn't do: (Score:5, Interesting)
Wrong. [everymac.com]. That newton was 480x320. The screen was physically smaller. It didn't have nearly as much contrast. The battery life isn't the same (the Kindle is measured in page turns, it will hold a page image practically forever). Newtons were great (I had one), but don't kid yourself. They aren't equivalent.
The Kindle is interesting. The keyboard is ugly. The screen refresh time still seems like a problem for me (although I know it is a problem with all E-Ink stuff now). I think the Sony device looks much better. Still, these are quire an advance. My brother has one of those RocketReaders (or whatever) from ~2000 that is thicker than my MacBook Pro, heavy, ugly, and has a LCD screen about as nice as the Newton.
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(don't have one, won't get one, but I did flip though the manual)
Re:What it doesn't do: (Score:5, Informative)
1. The Sony Reader displays PDFs natively. The small screen makes this nearly useless except for especially formatted PDFs. PDFs can be converted for the Amazon Kindle and the results are generally not all that bad, except for complex formatted PDFs. (But most PDFs are formatted as 8 1/2x11 inch paper; to read that properly you'd need a 14" diagonal screen--and instead of a handheld device the size of a small book, you'd need something the size of a laptop.
And guess what? A cheap laptop fits that bill perfectly.
2. The Amazon Kindle in fact does allow you to annotate a page. Select the line using the menu scroll wheel, then select "Add Note". You can then enter a note that then stays associated with the line. On the main page a small 'note' icon shows up on the page. You can also browse your notes by selecting "Menu" at the bottom of the page, then select "My Notes & Marks"; this shows a list of all the notes that you've taken. Selecting the note allows you to go directly to the page where the note was set; you can then read your note. (The Sony Reader doesn't allow you to do this because it has no keyboard.) Both devices allow you to bookmark a page.
3. You can browse web pages; use the menu wheel to select the line where the link is on, then select the line. A pop-up menu will then show a list of the links on that line, as well as give you the option to look up the meaning of any of the words on that line. Not exactly as elegant as using a pen or mouse input device to click on the line, but it does work.
4. Sprint EVDO is more than fast enough and has wider coverage than a hodge-podge of WiFi hotspots. The price to surf using the Sprint cell network is built into the device--meaning that it is effectively "free."
5. The resolution is 600x800x2bits/pixel, for 4 levels of gray, which is the current limitation of e-Paper. What makes e-Paper cool is that in direct sunlight or in a bright room, the e-Paper is extremely easy to ready. The downside is that it is unusable without a nightlight in the dark, and it is much lower resolution (and has no color resolution) compared to LCD.
The Newton (which I also had) had a smaller screen, shorter battery life, did not have the ability to surf the 'net and had no content.
(As a footnote, this is the thing that fascinates me about Slashdot: if a post sounds informative, it gets marked informative--even if the content was clearly pulled out of the poster's ass...)
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Can you enlighten me?
I may be buying an eBook in a few months.