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Fans Cheer as Apple's iPhone Finally Hits Europe 381

Posted by CowboyNeal
from the fall-is-apple-season dept.
An anonymous reader sent in this article which opens, "Apple fans lined up through Yesterday night in Germany and Britain to be among the first in Europe to buy an iPhone, the must-have gadget that is set to shake up the mobile industry." Over 10,000 phones were sold in Germany by Friday afternoon. In France, however, the iPhone doesn't arrive until the end of month.
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Fans Cheer as Apple's iPhone Finally Hits Europe

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  • France's iPhone (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Jerm (58306) on Saturday November 10, 2007 @10:20AM (#21306195)
    I'm sure the fact that Apple will finally have to reveal how much the iPhone will cost unlocked / sans contract has nothing to do with the fact that France is getting it last...
    • Re:France's iPhone (Score:5, Interesting)

      by timeOday (582209) on Saturday November 10, 2007 @10:49AM (#21306327)
      So how much do you think it will cost? I think Americans are paying full price + large markup on the hardware, plus an extra-high monthly payment (even though the hardware is not subsidized), plus they are locked into it for years, plus they are paying with the weak US dollar.
      • Re:France's iPhone (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Yahweh Doesn't Exist (906833) on Saturday November 10, 2007 @10:59AM (#21306369)
        do people really think the one-off price (ignoring the contract) of the iPhone is high? it's about £270 for the UK, which is about what I paid for my 5G when that came out. but the iPhone features vs. 5G features (even given the time elapsed) seems a great deal.

        people always bitch about Apple hardware being expensive (possibly true if you think product design and building are services that should be provided for free and companies shouldn't make any profit).

        what do you think the one-off price SHOULD be for the iPhone?
        • Re:France's iPhone (Score:4, Insightful)

          by ZombieWomble (893157) on Saturday November 10, 2007 @11:11AM (#21306443)
          You specify "ignoring the contract" in your post, but that's the issue in most people's minds - you have to buy into a fairly hefty contract at a price point where UK operators typically give you the pick of any phone they offer for free to get the iPhone at that 'one-off price'.
          • >you have to buy into a fairly hefty contract at a price point where UK operators typically give you the pick of any phone they offer for free

            are you intentionally being dense or do I really have to point out that all mobile phones don't have the same specifications?

            how many of those "free" phones include a widescreen multi-touch video ipod and full web browser with wifi?

            even if you're one of the people who get angry when phones do more than dial numbers, surely you can still understand the concept that
            • by Afecks (899057)
              You can't quantify such things so getting angry because he overlooked them in this context is kind of pointless.

              How much is multi-touch worth vs. single-touch? It's subjective. To me it's worth nothing.
              • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

                >How much is multi-touch worth vs. single-touch? It's subjective. To me it's worth nothing.

                does it follow that the research, development and manufacture of the multi-touch technology is nothing?

                if you don't think something is worth having, the appropriate response is to not buy it, not claim it's too expensive.
            • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

              by neokushan (932374)
              Last I checked, quite a lot of those "free" phones had built in wifi, played music and video and even had some fancy thing called 3G and picture messaging.
            • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

              by ZombieWomble (893157)
              I think you missed my point somewhat - I was not attempting to make a value judgement on how much the iPhone is worth in comparison to other phones, I was trying to point out why making a comparison on just the one-off price was futile. The iPhone may indeed be worth its £270 price tag over a crummy bottom of the line Nokia or the like - but is it worth the £700 or so price tag it bears when you take into account the extra cash you have to put into a contract you won't get any use out of? Or, to
        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Shemmie (909181)
          I paid £220 for a HTC Advantage / T-Mobile Ameo a couple of months ago, with an 18 month contract. So that's a phone with Bluetooth, HSDPA, Wifi, GPS, 8 gig HD, 5 inch 640x480 touch-screen, 3 mega-pixel camera, VGA-out.

          The 8 gig onboard helps to make it a little more directly comparable to an iPhone.
        • Re:France's iPhone (Score:4, Insightful)

          by m2943 (1140797) on Saturday November 10, 2007 @01:16PM (#21307363)
          do people really think the one-off price (ignoring the contract) of the iPhone is high? it's about £270 for the UK

          For an EDGE-only phone with no installable applications, a 480x320 screen, no voice dialing, no A2DP, limited chat, no OBEX, no modem functionality, and lots of other limitations?

          Yeah, I think that's overpriced.

          about what I paid for my 5G when that came out.

          There are no 5G phone [wikipedia.org] yet.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by boer (653809)

      There are dozens of countries in Europe and the iPhone has been announced in three (including France). So I'm not sure what you mean by the French getting the phone last?

      Wikipedia has some facts [wikipedia.org] for you.

  • Apple fans lined up through Yesterday night in Germany and Britain

    Glad to see that there are people everywhere who get taken in by glitzy, superficial, overpriced, under-featured gizmos - just because the tech media says they're wonderful.

    Is there no hope?

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by andy.ruddock (821066)
      Is there no hope?

      Nope, none at all. Listening to the news on BBC radio 1 yesterday, they interviewed some guy and asked him why it was so important - "Because it's Apple".

      And this after the BBC had a "shoot out" between the iPhone and a Nokia (N95 I think) and concluded that it was pretty much form over function.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by DrDitto (962751)
      You sound a bit envious. I don't own an iPhone, but after playing with a friends for an hour or so, I'm astounded by the usability of the device. The screen is amazingly sharp, the interface is intuitive, and Safari works very well.
      • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

        by dwater (72834)
        I feel a bit envious, but not of the owner.

        Rather on behalf of other just-as-or-more-worthy phones that get little or no attention for no good reason (apart from hype).
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Jugalator (259273)
        I'd miss 3G pretty instantly for a phone with this extreme price tag, and can't believe how people jump onto it when it's missing such common features.

        Also, it doesn't have a choice of carrier, Flash, Javascript, wireless synchronization due to poor Bluetooth usage...

        Stuff being common on mobile phones years ago and that many mobile-oriented web sites pretty much assume it can do.

        Seriously, I do feel they're being cheated on the feature set. The only thing this one seem to have going for it is three things:
        • by NDPTAL85 (260093)
          Only a true geek would consider looks and user interface to be middling points for a device. Oh and the 3G? The iPhone's EDGE browsing has been shown to load pages at least on par with a Treo's 3G Blazer and Windows Mobile 3G IE. So its not like those phones are actually faster at browsing the web than the iPhone just because they have 3G. Those phones have 3G hardware but the software leaves much to be desired.

          Apple is all about great experiences with their devices. I had a Treo. Bluetooth sync'ing was SLO
          • Treo 3G Blazer and Windows Mobile 3G? I haven't even heard of them, or heard of anybody else use them. Actually I haven't seen anybody use any Treo nor any Windows Mobile device. If you want a true 3G phone then you take one phone from Nokia or Sony-Ericsson.

            When talking about how iPhone with EDGE beats down 3G, I won't buy that. When you have good 3G networks that are not congested, as they usually aren't, 3G and especially with HSDPA there is no question which network connection blasts the other. It shou

      • That's right, if he has a complaint which doesn't match your view, he must be envious.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by jonbryce (703250)
      At the Apple shop in Regent Street, yes there were lots of people waiting. However, go round the corner to the Carphone Warehouse and O2 shops in Oxford Street, and they weren't any busier than normal.
    • The like the iphone, Apple and wanted to buy one?

      Just because you dont like them doesn't mean others may. ( And no, i dont have one, nor will i get one, but i can appreciate otehrs liking/wanting them )
    • by ceeam (39911)
      Yes, there are "better" WinMobile or even Symbian phones for geeks. I'm not at all sure my mom (or my dad for that matter) will ever be able to figure them out fully. I played with iPhone and I don't think it's for me, but I can clearly see why people would want it - screen is really good, phone part (hw & interface) is _great_, it's _small_, does not look gay (unlike most Nokia models) or brickish (S/E), interface is _new_ and quite impressive, touchscreen works great and does not need stylus - you can
      • my mother and my father both have phones with windows mobile on it (htc blue angel and htc wallaby) for almost two years now. they needed only about half an hour to learn to use them.

        and no, they aren't geeks or something, my mother is a medical doctor and my father is a naval navigator, currently unemployed.
    • by gmuslera (3436)
      Ive already seen people everywhere who gets taken in by glitzy, superficial, overpriced, unsafe and under-featured OSs, just because the tech media says they're wonderful... so, no, there is no hope, just hype.
    • just shows there are gullible people everywhere

      Sure are - you know how many people buy expensive, bulky dysfunctional piece of crap phones just because they have more entries on a feature checklist?
    • by Stevecrox (962208)
      02 were opening at 9:02pm I walked past the O2 store yesterday around 4pm and there was a mum with her daughter waiting outside as things happened I walked past the same store about five past nine and the only customers inside were the mum and daughter. I don't think its going to make that much of an impact over here since the general consensus I've heard from my non techy friends is don't waste your money on a rubbish phone by a iTouch instead and have a good phone.
  • by RevHawk (855772) on Saturday November 10, 2007 @10:30AM (#21306223)
    That so many are so excited to get an iPhone...

    And so few are outraged that that traffic (or at least the connections) will more than likely be logged by the government against the will of the people.

    There's no outrage though - we get an iPhone!

    Sad.
  • by Marbleless (640965) on Saturday November 10, 2007 @10:31AM (#21306229)
    ... who clearly has never had a girlfriend ;)

  • by dotancohen (1015143) on Saturday November 10, 2007 @10:31AM (#21306235) Homepage
    Actually, I understood that the launch wasn't so great [aximsite.com].
    • by estarriol (864512) on Saturday November 10, 2007 @11:04AM (#21306401)

      This is easy to explain. The iPhone brings nothing new to the table in Europe, where all of its features are available generally in other phones, and most are common in any high-end phone. In America, which for some reason appears to be 2-3 generations behind Europe in the mobile phone arena, this isn't true.

      iPhone in America = OMFG this phone has everything, even a camera!
      iPhone in Europe = Pretty, cool, doesn't do X as well as Nokia or Y as well as Sony Ericsson and OMFG the price!
      • by IANAAC (692242) on Saturday November 10, 2007 @11:28AM (#21306549)

        iPhone in Europe = Pretty, cool, doesn't do X as well as Nokia or Y as well as Sony Ericsson and OMFG the price!

        I generally agree that cellphone tech lags in in U.S., but you realize that pretty much the same high-end Nokia and Samsung phones sold in Europe are also sold in the U.S., right?

        It's not the phones themselves that are hampering the tech, it's the carriers.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by nine-times (778537)

          I generally agree that cellphone tech lags in in U.S., but you realize that pretty much the same high-end Nokia and Samsung phones sold in Europe are also sold in the U.S., right?

          A lot of those phones, though, aren't sold through the carriers in the US, and therefore most American consumers never see them.

      • The iPhone brings nothing new to the table in Europe, where all of its features are available generally in other phones

        Really? Which other phones have a multi-touch screen? Which other phones have a good web browser? Which other phones have iTunes?

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Poorcku (831174)
          Like that matters here in Germany. People here say: 399? no thanx that is my 1/4 of my salary, I'll happily wait. The touch screen is good, but good browser? I use opera mini, itunes? wtf should i do with itunes? No ringtones? Germans are very fond of their own ringtones :) No 3g? oh come on. And the list goes on an on. This is not madness. THIS IS EUROPE ! ;)
        • htc touch has something like that (biotouch), you can run opera mobile on htc touch (and all other windows mobile phones) and who cares about itunes?
          btw as you can install software as you like to your windows mobile phone, you can even install a media player which can play ogg.
          can your iphone play ogg?
        • by BorgDrone (64343)
          Which other phones have a multi-touch screen?
          None, but it's not that big of a feature, sure it's nice, but certainly not a selling point.

          Which other phones have a good web browser?
          Every single Series60 phone since november 2005 has a browser that uses the same rendering engine as the browser on the iPhone (WebKit which based on khtml).

          Which other phones have iTunes?
          Motorola ROKR E1 for one. But of course, iTunes is a brand name so you won't find many with 'itunes'. Phones with MP3 functionality, however, ha
        • A multitouch screen is not a selling point, although a UI built using one might be.

          My last two phones have included Opera, although I believe the updated firmware replaces this with a WebKit-based browser (just like the iPhone). I tend to use my phone as a bluetooth modem and browse the web with my laptop or 770 though, so I've not bothered updating it.

          Is having iTunes a major selling point for a phone? My current phone can play music. I've used the functionality a handful of times. Would a better UI

      • by wfolta (603698) on Saturday November 10, 2007 @12:28PM (#21306969)
        The iPhone does several things that no other phone in the world does. But that's not the point. Those "super-advanced" European cellphones don't do anything that 5-year-old phones do. Perhaps locate themselves a bit more accurately. Perhaps have a higher-rez camera. Perhaps have a faster Internet connection with a half-baked "web browser".

        The point is that the iPhone does mostly what other phones do in a new way. The phone works like a cellphone would if it had just been invented, unlike other cellphones which are essentially a lot of bling and tech-spec thrown onto foundation/philosophy from 10 years ago. And that's why the iPhone is all that. And that's why you'll read reviews on European sites that say things like "my head says no, but my heart says yes." The iPhone makes sense, and has a unique feel, even if it falls short in certain individual categories.

        In terms of actual new things, the iPhone has visual voicemail. All of those other "advanced" phones have voicemail that works like a 1970's cassette-tape answering machine.

        The iPhone has a proximity sensor to turn off its light and touch surface when it's next to your face on a call. (Perhaps other phones do this. I have not seen or read that any do.) It has accelerometers so it knows what way it's facing (landscape or portrait), which may actually exist in other phones, but is certainly not widespread. The iPhone has a consistent, fingers-only interface with things like pinch and stretch (which are unique).

        Just look at how you move through photos or through tabbed web pages: they made it work the same. Other phones don't even have real web browsers, much less tabbed web browsers, much less one where they've rethought how you move between tabs so it's clean and consistent with the rest of the phone.

        In the end, I'm glad to hear the naysayers. The more the better -- up to a point -- for my stock investment. Apple stock does so well because so many people underestimate Apple. "Death spiral", "iPod-killer", "iTunes-killer", "nothing new iPhone", "market share too small and can't grow", "no halo effect", etc, etc.

        (Not to mention this is iPhone 1.0 and it's competing against Nokia 15.0 (or whatever) and Windows mobile 6.0 (?). Not that much different from the initial iPods, which did not exceed then-current MP3 players in many aspects, but did do it in a more stylish and polished way.)
        • by metlin (258108) on Saturday November 10, 2007 @01:44PM (#21307563) Journal

          In terms of actual new things, the iPhone has visual voicemail. All of those other "advanced" phones have voicemail that works like a 1970's cassette-tape answering machine.

          Agreed, that's a great feature. Unfortunately, for that to be accomodated, you needed the telco to modify the way their voice-mail system works. The fact that Apple has a cult following (and the hype around the iPhone) was want made AT&T change their voice mail system for the iPhone. I can assure you that if $PHONE_MFR had talked to telcos about this prior to Apple, they'd have just said, "But $OTHER_PHONE_MFR doesn't ask for this - why should we go along with you?" Just saying.

          The iPhone has a proximity sensor to turn off its light and touch surface when it's next to your face on a call.

          My Blackberry Curve does this, and does it quite well.

          I have not seen or read that any do.) It has accelerometers so it knows what way it's facing (landscape or portrait), which may actually exist in other phones

          I've seen them elsewhere, but I do wish that more phones came with them. That's a truly useful feature, but it would be pointless in most phones except touchscreen ones because why would you want to type sideways when your alphabets are facing down, right? Applicability and all that.

          The iPhone has a consistent, fingers-only interface with things like pinch and stretch (which are unique).

          Some of those interfaces are nice and very useful. Others? Not so much. Especially Apple's touchscreen keyboard. I just tried out the iPhone at the store before deciding that I liked the new Blackberry better. The biggest reason for choosing so? The keyboard. I could not type a long enough mail without a goodly amount of mistakes. Now, using a stylus could have changed that, but the keys were so small that it was hard for me to type on them anything more than a few words without a mistake. It's quite possible that it's just me, but a lot of people that I've talked to have cited similar problems.

          Just look at how you move through photos or through tabbed web pages: they made it work the same.

          Yes, consistency in Apple UIs is a big plus, I won't even disagree with that. They also find unique ways of applying that to other applications in a very intuitive way.

          Other phones don't even have real web browsers, much less tabbed web browsers, much less one where they've rethought how you move between tabs so it's clean and consistent with the rest of the phone.

          That is not true. I've seen (and used) several phones with very efficient full-browsers. Now, some of them do not let you have Flash on them, which is a pain, but hey. Secondly, with today's data speeds (and data plans), having the full website be displayed may not necessarily be a good idea, after all.

          In the end, I'm glad to hear the naysayers. The more the better -- up to a point -- for my stock investment. Apple stock does so well because so many people underestimate Apple. "Death spiral", "iPod-killer", "iTunes-killer", "nothing new iPhone", "market share too small and can't grow", "no halo effect", etc, etc.

          Well, I think that has more to do with St. Stephen of Jobs than anyone else. To be fair, Wallstreet rarely ever talks of Apple in those terms. That seems rather restricted to the tech industry.

          (Not to mention this is iPhone 1.0 and it's competing against Nokia 15.0 (or whatever) and Windows mobile 6.0 (?). Not that much different from the initial iPods, which did not exceed then-current MP3 players in many aspects, but did do it in a more stylish and polished way.)

          Indeed. On the other hand, something like Nokia N95 [wikipedia.org] does kick the iPhone in its balls - and it is independent of the provider.

          I could go on -- but the point is that while the iPhone is

          • Agreed, [Visual Voicemail is] a great feature. Unfortunately, for that to be accomodated, you needed the telco to modify the way their voice-mail system works.

            VV was around before the iphone (CallWave, Simulscribe) and Google/GrandCentral's implementation [grandcentral.com] works on any phone currently, for free, and it's good. VV is just not that hard to do. It's easy if you have a real 3G connection, so that you can download the audio on-the-fly in response to user clicks. What's impressive about the Apple/AT&T implemen
        • The iPhone does several things that no other phone in the world does.

          Yes, in the etch-a-sketch app, you can shake it to erase the screen. That's pretty cool... if you're three.

          In terms of actual new things, the iPhone has visual voicemail.

          VV was around before the iphone (CallWave, Simulscribe) and Google/GrandCentral's implementation works on any phone currently, for free. It's just not that hard to do.

          Other phones don't even have real web browsers, much less tabbed web browsers

          Opera *invented* tabbed brows
        • In terms of actual new things, the iPhone has visual voicemail.

          So did my phone in Japan when I lived there... 2 years ago.

          Heck, I could listen to the answering machine as it was recorded, just like in the movies. And afterwards, I got each message listed with caller and length of message, and I could tap the screen to play/delete the messages I wanted. I honestly could not believe what I heard when I read comments on slashdot about voicemail being a "new" thing.

          I'm curious about the iPhone because it's slick. Not because of any "new" features, but because the impleme

      • by risk one (1013529) on Saturday November 10, 2007 @12:32PM (#21306997)

        The iPhone isn't about features. Of course, other phones have camera's and music players and whatnot. The iPhone is about getting it right. I have a simple Samsung phone. I picked it because I wanted a phone with a music player and a decent amount of storage. When I got it, I realized that feature listings aren't everything. The interface is impossibly complicated, the music player is enormously whimsical, it's impossible to get it to play a specific playlist, once it's playing you can't turn it off, file transfer between phone and computer works only if you're lucky and, well, the list goes on and on.

        That's why the iPhone is different. It not only has the features, but they're designed to be used. They got it right. The iPhone really is beautiful and exceptional, not because of all its features, but because of how they work and how well they work. Most phones are designed to be bought, the iPhone is designed to be used.

  • Good story (Score:5, Informative)

    by no-body (127863) on Saturday November 10, 2007 @10:32AM (#21306237)
    I heard other things about this:

    Bus charters to bring buyers to stores were cancelled.
    It costs over Eur 1,600 in contract fees.
    From DE press:
    "The big run like the startup in the United States, however, didn't show"
    "US hysteric, DE deep-relaxed"
    "People using software to break the SIM-lock and use cheaper services"
  • Exchange rates... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 10, 2007 @10:36AM (#21306259)
    Have they changed the price to reflect the plummeting US dollar? In Canada, the (recently updated) Macbooks are still priced as they were when the Canadian dollar was a fraction of the American. I don't mind Apple making a profit on superior hardware, but a $350 markup just because one is forced to order within a certain locale rings too reminiscent of DVD region codes and all things loathsome.
  • Canada (Score:4, Interesting)

    by whisper_jeff (680366) on Saturday November 10, 2007 @10:38AM (#21306269)
    All fine and dandy, but when does the iPhone goodness come to Canada? Impatient Canadian minds want to know.
    • by mgblst (80109)
      Just drive or catch the bus the few 100km. Or wait a few weeks, and the exchange rate will mean you can pick one up for a $100CDN instead.
  • no more whining (Score:3, Insightful)

    by fermion (181285) on Saturday November 10, 2007 @10:40AM (#21306277) Homepage Journal
    We know from the american introduction that
    • The phone will only work as long as Apple wants it to work
    • The Phone will cost a fortune to use outside of the local area
    • The phone is programmed to check mail and deliver revenue to your service provider even when it is "off"
    • The phone is a closed environment, and will probably require several days with a loaner phone, at additional cost, to repair.
    • this phone does not have the advanced features that everyone seems to find so critical in other phones, such as user generated custom ringtones.
    I am sure there are others, but that is a good start. If you buy Apple products, like I do, it is better to go in with eyes wide open, rather than whine later. Most of these things are beyond the Apple SOP, which is why the iPhone, to me, is not nearly such a great product, but those who do buy it surely can no longer be surprised.
    • by tsa (15680)
      Finally a person who keeps his head together about Apple. I couldn't agree with you more. While I do like Apple's hardware a lot, the restrictions much of Apple's software imposes on me annoys me. Examples are the well-known iTMS/iTunes coupling, the fact that Airtunes only works with iTunes and is only configurable using an annoying program you get with it (no HTML interface), and that you need Apple's BootCamp to have multiple OS'es on your Intel Mac. But I put up with it because of the nice hardware. How
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Archon-X (264195)
        You can use Airtunes w/ Thirdparty software. It's even open source, IIRC.
      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by naden (206984)

        well-known iTMS/iTunes coupling

        False: There is no coupling between iPhone and iTMS. The option is there but you are in no way obligated to use it. And with respect to iTunes: iPhone Drive [ecamm.com]

        the fact that Airtunes only works with iTunes

        False: Airfoil [rogueamoeba.com]

        and is only configurable using an annoying program you get with it (no HTML interface)

        Debatable: I personally have no problems with Airport Utility for the very few times I need to reconfigure my router.

        and that you need Apple's BootCamp to have multiple OS'es on your Intel Mac.

        False: Parallels [parallels.com], VMWare [vmware.com]

        However, I will not buy an iPhone unless I can put third party software on it

        Done: AppTapp [nullriver.com]

        and get one without a SIMlock and without a subscription.

        Done: iPhone Dev Wiki (you need AnySim) [fiveforty.net]

        • Re:no more whining (Score:5, Interesting)

          by tsa (15680) on Saturday November 10, 2007 @12:31PM (#21306991) Homepage
          well-known iTMS/iTunes coupling
          False: There is no coupling between iPhone and iTMS. The option is there but you are in no way obligated to use it. And with respect to iTunes: iPhone Drive


          I wasn't talking about the iPhone.

          the fact that Airtunes only works with iTunes
          False: Airfoil


          That's extra software you have to pay for, and it's not made by Apple.

          and is only configurable using an annoying program you get with it (no HTML interface)
          Debatable: I personally have no problems with Airport Utility for the very few times I need to reconfigure my router.


          To each his own, but I find it annoying to have to start a separate program for configuring the Airport thingy. Luckily you're right, It's not often needed.

          and that you need Apple's BootCamp to have multiple OS'es on your Intel Mac
          False: Parallels, VMWare

          That's not the same.

          However, I will not buy an iPhone unless I can put third party software on it
          Done: AppTapp

          Not supported by Apple, not out of the box.

          and get one without a SIMlock and without a subscription.
          Done: iPhone Dev Wiki (you need AnySim)


          Tell me where to get an iPhone without a SIM lock and without a subscription.
          • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

            by Qwerpafw (315600)
            Do you know why you need Apple's bootcamp to use another OS on a Mac? Because Apple uses Intel's next-gen BIOS replacement, EFI. Almost nobody else uses EFI.

            BootCamp adds in legacy BIOS support, which is necessary for Windows. Tell Microsoft to pull its head out of its ass and support EFI.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by naden (206984)

      The phone will only work as long as Apple wants it to work

      And why wouldn't Apple want it to work ? IMHO it doesn't appear that Apple is deliberately trying to brick phones. Rather that they are on their own path of issuing firmware updates which happen to conflict with what the homebrew community is doing. If you have seen what is going on to get it to work you would understand.

      The Phone will cost a fortune to use outside of the local area

      As will EVERY phone on a roaming plan. If your sensible you will unlock the phone and use a local SIM card. I'm holidaying in Thailand and paying very, very cheap rates for phone calls.

      The phone is programmed to check mail and deliver revenue to your service provider even when it is "off"

      T

    • by gotw (239699)
      Some caveats for the EU apply here. Mobile carriers in the EU tend to be national (certainly the case with O2 in the UK), it will cost the same to use an iPhone anywhere in the UK. I wouldn't want to make wild guesses as to how many people regularly travel between EU states, but throwing that to the wind I'm guessing that with language and border issues (especially in the UK) this mobility is much lower than in the US. A second point being that as of very recently roaming charges within the EU are regulated [wikipedia.org]
    • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

      by Idaho (12907)
      Mod parent down please. It's a nice troll - I wonder by who he is paid to post here.

      However, as apparently a lot of people believe this bullshit:

      * The phone will only work as long as Apple wants it to work

      You mean that if you update the firmware of a hacked iPhone, it might break? Same as for other phones then (although people hardly ever upgrade their cellphone firmware, so nobody normally notices).

      * The Phone will cost a fortune to use outside of the local area

      As does any oth
      • * The phone is programmed to check mail and deliver revenue to your service provider even when it is "off"

        This is bollocks.

        No, it isn't [nytimes.com].

        This is a major turnoff. Travel in Europe is very easy and many people do it. My parents just noticed that it's a 3 day weekend, and decided to visit Portugal. A weather check, a bit of googling to see how much the hotel might cost, and they left. When you can easily travel on a whim without doing any real planning, how will the phone do abroad becomes pretty significant.

        • by naden (206984)

          No, it isn't.
          Yes it is.

          This 'bug' was fixed in release 1.1.1 with the preference to disable EDGE/GPRS when roaming. If you, your parents or anyone else is silly enough to assume that international data roaming is cheap then perhaps just stick to travelling in your own country.

          Roaming (and the associated costs) has been an issue since well, well, well before the iPhone.
          • Everybody knows roaming is expensive.

            Everybody also assumes that when a phone looks off, that it's actually off and not accumulating roaming charges by checking mail.

            But good to know it was fixed
        • by Idaho (12907)

          No, it isn't [nytimes.com].

          Yes, it is.

          The important thing here is the "when it is off" condition.

          That article you are referring to is about an iPhone that definitely was not turned off. Note that "screen is black" does not equal "is turned off". This is true for mostly any (cell)phone built in the past 10 or so years.

          Also, the same (huge bill) thing would happen with any other smartphone that is set for roaming when you take it abroad - if it has automatic e-mail checking etc. enabled. And yes, you can also

    • The phone is programmed to check mail and deliver revenue to your service provider even when it is "off"
      Nope. The phone has an option (Off by default) to check mail when the phone is on standby. When you switch the phone off, it doesn't do anything. Finally, since all plans include unlimited data, it delivers no revenue anyway.
    • Some of what you're saying isn't really fair. I'll translate your statements into something more closely resembling the truth:

      The phone will only work as long as Apple wants it to work

      The phone may cease working if you try to hack it in unsupported ways.

      The Phone will cost a fortune to use outside of the local areak

      AT&T charges a fortune if you use international roaming.

      The phone is programmed to check mail and deliver revenue to your service provider even when it is "off".

      If you don't underst

    • Most of the things you mention are against the law in europe, so consumers can fully hold Apple accountable if they don't get what they expect, namely a phone that follows EU law.

      Just because Apple can pull these stunts in the US does not mean it can do them in the EU.

      Do you really think the EU would let Apple get away with it after it has gotten MS to finally submit? Remember, thanks to the lovely EU system, we CONSTANTLY have elections, so there is always someone somewhere who wants to pretend he really

  • No 3G (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Mung Victim (821757) on Saturday November 10, 2007 @10:50AM (#21306331)
    It looks like a great product, but the lack of 3G is a show-stopper for me. Hopefully this will be included in the next generation.
    • by Jugalator (259273)
      Wow, especially for a European release, that's nasty. Seriously. A huge disadvantage. 3G is extremely common in Europe in this class of mobile phones.
  • Not like the US roll out is it?

    I actually think the French will get the best deal. The worst part of the phone for consumers is the exclusive contract with the networks.
  • by DJoy (1112125) on Saturday November 10, 2007 @11:03AM (#21306397)
    In the UK, we're used to getting our phones for free. Now, nobody is expecting to get an iPhone for free, however, this contract does show a marked change... Here, when we take out a phone contract, we get a phone for free ( higher the rate of contract, the more expensive phone you can have ). The carrier will lock you into the contract for usually 12 months ( sometimes now 18 months ), in order to recoup the cost of the phone. That's fair enough, good value, everyone happy. If you *buy* a phone here, you aren't locked into a contract, and can switch provider or have Pay-As-You-Go etc. With the iPhone, you have to *pay* for the phone, *and* you get locked into a min 18 month contract. So what cost is the carrier recouping? The fees it's paying to Apple, that's what. In the first instance, the benefit and the cost-penalty go to the consumer. Fair play. In the second instance, the cost-penalty stays with the consumer, but the benefit moves to Apple. Someone somewhere is rubbing their hands with glee, but it's not the little guy on the street. Sorry, it's a nice shiny device, with a very cool interface, but it's lacking in some important features, and I know a bad deal when I see one.
    • In the UK, we're used to getting our phones for free. Now, nobody is expecting to get an iPhone for free, however, this contract does show a marked change... Here, when we take out a phone contract, we get a phone for free ( higher the rate of contract, the more expensive phone you can have ).

      This is misinformation - In general in the UK, the more expensive your tariff, the cheaper the handset. Whilst this does mean some handsets have no additional cost, the top end ones usually do unless you're on a crazi
  • It leads to irrational actions and purchases.

    I try to be a fan of as few things as possible, and instead buy on the technical merit.
    • I try to be a fan of as few things as possible, and instead buy on the technical merit.


      In defense of the fan: always purchasing on technical merit is time consuming. If you value time more, and have had a good track record with a company, then I see no reason not to be a fan.

      -Grey [silverclipboard.com]
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by DaleGlass (1068434)
        There's track record, and there's being a fan.

        Track record means that as a quite happy owner of an HP laptop, I'll probably be slightly more likely to buy from HP next time as well. But that doesn't mean I won't look for reviews of multiple manufacturer's hardware, and definitely doesn't mean I'll buy the first HP laptop I see.

        I also generally favor AMD hardware, but bought an Intel laptop because at that time the Intel option was clearly superior.

        A true fan, IMO, is somebody that buys from $COMPANY because
  • by Vspirit (200600) on Saturday November 10, 2007 @11:13AM (#21306453) Homepage
    link(in danish): http://politiken.dk/tjek/digitalt/telefoni/article424644.ece [politiken.dk]

    Basically it says that the phone is now available, unlocked. thanks to parallel imports and indirect use of the french directive.

    The price is 5900 DKK, approx ~1150 USD.
    Thats the price without a calling plan - look mum, no hands!
    You are free to do what the fuck you want.

    but then again..
    Where's the 3G, and why would I have to criminalize myself
    should I like to add my own little helper applications not
    provided by apple. This system is way to closed.

    So they can have their phone and marketing,
    I'll see if they fix the issues with it being
    so controlled, and I'll stay with the Nokia N95,
    until something better will appear in the market,
    still N95 beats Iphone.
  • Obligitory (Score:5, Interesting)

    by zerocool^ (112121) on Saturday November 10, 2007 @11:19AM (#21306489) Homepage Journal
    Maddox' take on it:

    http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone [thebestpag...iverse.net]

    An objective comparison:

    --------- | iPhone | Nokia E70
    Resolution: | 320x480 | 352x416
    Storage: | 4 or 8 gigs (fixed). | Unlimited. The E70 can use hot-swappable 2 GB mini SD cards, so you can have as much storage as you want.
    Can customize ringtones with your own mp3s: | NO | YES
    Can record video: | NO | YES
    Screen turns into a smudgy piece of shit after a few minutes of use: | YES | NO
    Can send MMS messages: | NO | YES
    You have to send your phone to Apple when the battery dies and risk getting your phone lost, stolen, or damaged in transit: Yes. No.
    Plays MP3s: | YES | YES
    Holds your phone hostage to Apple for new software updates because Apple won't allow everyone to develop applications for it: | YES | NO
    Voice dialing: | NO | YES
    Can record voice: | NO | YES
    Instant messaging: No. Yes.
    Can't do fundamental tasks like copy & paste text: Yes. No. Double negative, bitches!
    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by blind biker (1066130)
      Screen turns into a smudgy piece of shit after a few minutes of use: | YES | NO

      See, now there's a feature where the iPhone beats the Nokia E70.

      *ducks*
  • Those plans/tariffs are really expensive:

    so you have to pay at least $72 per month, get only 100(!) minutes of free talk, outrageous extra minutes, pitiful 40(!) sms messages and $36 for some Bereitstellungspreis (babel:supply price). True, you get "free" data over slow EDGE.

    I just wonder how the owners will feel after a few months when the reality distortion field collapses.

    The source is here:

    http://www.t-mobile.de/iphone/showTariffs.do [t-mobile.de]
  • $600 again!? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Raven737 (1084619) on Saturday November 10, 2007 @11:33AM (#21306575)
    I live in Germany and have been using my unlocked 4GB iPhone since September with my Work provided E-Plus sim card.
    I am amazed at prices the expect people in Germany to pay, i mean i payed $299 + tax (i think it was like an additional $17)
    when i bought my iPhone in the US (ok so the 8GB was $399) but now they expect people to pay $585!!!
    And somehow i know they are not going to reduce the price in two weeks!
    Now i know why they call it Rip-Off-Europe, next to a PS3 thats crippled and costs twice as much as in the US/Japan,
    this would simply go into my 'like hell i'm paying extra for THAT' list.

    But, I'm just glad i bought mine over there, for (at current rates) just 203 Euros.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by petes_PoV (912422)
      Todays FT newspaper (www.ft.com) has a price breakdown for the UK price.

      The phone itself costs £269, including all taxes.

      You have to take out an 18 month contract, which will cost between £35 and £55 per month

      The total cost can therefore be £1259, excluding any additional call charges you may rack up (like when you think it's turned off but isn't really http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/10/1216224 [slashdot.org]

      For the US equivalent, at todays exchange rate is > $2600

  • iPhone in Nürnberg (Score:3, Informative)

    by Poorcku (831174) on Saturday November 10, 2007 @11:36AM (#21306599) Homepage
    i would like to give you some info on what i have seen in Nürnberg on the day of the launch/day after. First of all, the "T-Punkte", the T-mobile shops as they are called were no more busier than ever.At any given time, 2-4 people were playing with the demo phones asking stupid questions like: "can i use a local prepaid card when i am in Italy, where i go 2-3 times a year?" you should have seen their faces. Because europeans tend to travel inside the EU a lot more often and they do tend to buy local prepaid cards in order to benefit from the local charges.

    And on another note, in Köln on the day of the launch, they had 800Iphones on stock. After the big lines at midnight went away, they have sold 200 iphones. So there was not the craze as in the usa.
  • London yesterday (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mikeselectricstuff (556110) on Saturday November 10, 2007 @11:40AM (#21306617) Homepage
    I was walking around London's West End last night - up til about 4PM there were only about 50-70 people in the Apple Store Queue, almost outnumbered by staff,stewards and press. A few other phone shops had barriers and door staff from around 5PM but no sign of anyone interested in queuing. By 7PM many of the phone shops were not exactly crowded, with half the staff outside leafletting and trying to persuade people in to have a look. Considering there are currently >600 unlocked ones on Ebay UK, it isn't exactly surprising the 'official' launch was a bit of a flop, as anyone really interested would already have an imported one.
  • by Peregr1n (904456) <ian.a.ferguson@gmail.com> on Saturday November 10, 2007 @12:11PM (#21306841) Homepage
    Firstly: I admit, I bought one last night. I'm an Apple fan; but NOT a fanatical one.

    I bought mine in Southampton, where there's an Apple store. I did go there with the intention of buying one there, but the queue was longer than outside O2 or Carphone Warehouse (the only other two sellers) and the staff had obviously been hyped up to whoop and holler and run along high-fiving the queue, which might herald excitement in the US, but in the conservative UK is distinctly embarrassing and probably put a lot of people off queueing.

    I bought mine at an O2 shop and there were more staff (at least 15) than people queueing, even at quarter past six when I turned up (the launch was at 6pm). The staff looked a little embarrassed.

    What was most irritating was that I simply wanted to hand over my £270 and take away the damn phone, but while I was waiting I was besieged by O2 staff asking if I was OK, offering me muffins, trying to demo the iPhone, trying to get me to sign up to some expensive insurance deal, trying to sell me accessories, trying to lick my ass... if they had put all these staff behind sales terminals, they would have sold them a damn sight faster and probably sold more of them, as several people got bored and wandered off!

    When the Apple shop in Southampton opened for the first time, and when the Nintendo Wii was launched in a variety of local shops, I saw excitement and queueing that deserved this kind of reception. However, it was patently obvious that Apple have vastly overestimated the demand for the iPhone in the UK; I haven't seen the local papers today but I suspect Apple won't be delighted with the coverage (I saw some photographers having a field day making the queue look as small as possible).

    As to why, I'm sure everyone knows, but here's a recap as to why it's not the saviour of the UK's mobile industry;
    1. We're used to either paying for the phone, or the contract, but not both;
    2. We're used to accessing mobile internet on 3G, which was rolled out wider and earlier here than across the USA;
    3. There have been several competing devices launched recently, which appeal to a range of demographics; for example, techies will like the N95 while fashion victims will like the Prada wotsit;
    4. It's quite chunky as phones go - which might sound pernickerty but the market here is very much geared towards fashionable, neat phones (for example, no manufacturer would dare launch a phone with an aerial here within the last few years as they look so dated, while I hear they're still available in the US).

    A final thought on a different note though; I have no doubt that the iPhone will be a success here, it's just Apple misjudged the launch a little. Apple have the marketing power that other manufacturers only dream of, and at the end of the day, the public have little regard for technical features or even cost, it's what they perceive to be fashionable and/or popular that will be a success. And I hope it is; despite it not being perfect, it does a few simple things well, and is a pleasure to use.
    And me? I say, roll on the open API :-D
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by VJ42 (860241) *
      A honest Apple fan in this topic. How refreshing, all the others are trying to tell me how the iPhone conquers all. Your view is much more realistic and closely mirrors mine on the topic, I was at work today (yes, I work Saturdays). But during my lunch hour I popped by the O2 shop outside West Quay (Yes I live in Southampton too) to see if there were any fanboys I could taunt*. There weren't; during the five minutes I lingered I didn't see a single customer, and to be blunt, that's not surprising.
      I have a
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Durzel (137902)
      A friend who works for Carphone Warehouse (who shall remain unmentioned) received an email on launch day from "the powers that be" saying that he expects staff to push for "80% penetration on insurance, 50% penetration on accessories". It's no wonder you were harassed into getting insurance...

      The title of this thread is proof positive that hype overrules fact. There was nothing like the sort of chaotic scenes that came with the US iPhone launch, at most stores it was business as usual with no queues [dialaphone.co.uk]. Whe
  • by tommyhj (944468) on Saturday November 10, 2007 @12:49PM (#21307141)
    Here in Denmark they tell us NOT TO UPDATE FIRMWARE! Because it might lock the phone to AT&T, and the local phone company has to reset the phone back to 1.0.x firmware... So basically, you buy a half-finished product, stuck at launch firmware... SUCKS!
  • A Londonian armed with a camera debunks the hype.

    http://72.14.209.104/search?hs=sUq&hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.dialaphone.co.uk%2Fblog%2F%3Fp%3D750&btnG=Search
  • "applenewsisboring"? (Score:5, Informative)

    by SanityInAnarchy (655584) <ninja@slaphack.com> on Saturday November 10, 2007 @01:27PM (#21307449) Journal
    I'm getting a bit sick of seeing that tag on every "Apple" story.

    Look, up there at the top -- see the Slashdot logo? Look immediately below that. The leftmost link should be your name (or you need to get an account, you Coward). And just right of that, "Preferences".

    Inside Preferences, click on "Homepage", and scroll to "Customize stories on the homepage".

    And in there, click the leftmost radio button next to "Apple". Scroll down again, and save your changes.

    You can now shut the fuck up and stop trolling the Apple stories, because you won't even see them.
  • by Tryfen (216209) on Saturday November 10, 2007 @02:12PM (#21307809) Homepage
    Of all the phones I've use - and I've used most of them - the iPhone has the best UI. No doubt about it. It, as they say, just works.

    But, sadly, the UI is a trade off against everything else. I won't list all the ways in which the iPhone is deficient in the current mobile market - but trading them all off against the UI *and* and £230 price tag is lunacy.

    Would you use Vista if it cost £230 more than Ubuntu? It's prettier and easier to use?

    No? Didn't think so.

    I've no doubt Apple will sell a fair few of the things, and I've no doubt that the promised 3G version will be a spectacular improvement. Similarly, by 2009 I expect all smart phones to be colloquially known as "iPhones" just as all MP3 players are "iPods". But right here, right now, the N95 and any other high cost phone blows the iPhone away in terms of functionality and price.

You can bring any calculator you like to the midterm, as long as it doesn't dim the lights when you turn it on. -- Hepler, Systems Design 182

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