Follow Slashdot stories on Twitter

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Microsoft It's funny. Laugh.

MS Awarded "Best Campaigner Against OOXML" 190

Posted by kdawson from the pull-gun-aim-at-foot-pull-trigger dept.
HansF writes "Microsoft itself is the surprise winner of the FFII's Kayak Prize 2007, offered by the FFII in its call for rejection of Microsoft's OOXML standards proposal. The software monopolist is honored as 'Best Campaigner against OOXML Standardization.' FFII president Pieter Hintjens explains, 'We could never have done this by ourselves. By pushing so hard to get OOXML endorsed, even to the point of loading the standards boards in Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland, Portugal, Italy, and beyond, Microsoft showed to the world how poor their format is. Good standards just don't need that kind of pressure. All together, countries made over ten thousands technical comments, a new world record for an ISO vote. Microsoft made a heroic — and costly — effort to discredit their own proposal, and we're sincerely grateful to them.'" If Microsoft doesn't send a representative to claim their 2500-Euro prize at the FFII General Assembly in November, FFII will give the money to Peruvian earthquake relief.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

MS Awarded "Best Campaigner Against OOXML" More

MS Awarded "Best Campaigner Against OOXML"

Comments Filter:

  • Y'know.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Cleon ( 471197 ) <cleon42.yahoo@com> on Monday October 01, 2007 @09:09PM (#20818275) Homepage
    In addition, MS has helped IT security improve more than any other company.

  • I wouldn't be too smug (Score:5, Insightful)

    by earthforce_1 ( 454968 ) <earthforce_1@y[ ]o.com ['aho' in gap]> on Monday October 01, 2007 @09:14PM (#20818313) Journal
    They nearly won, and it isn't over yet - there is another vote coming up in Februrary.

    • Vista makes me smile. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Erris ( 531066 ) on Monday October 01, 2007 @10:28PM (#20818855) Homepage Journal

      I don't think the ISO organization will allow M$ to damage their reputation that way. The OOXML vote is an international scandal and the people who count are not going to forget it. The whole business has already been damaging to ISO and they would do better to bury ooxml.

      Just the same, I don't feel smug about how easily they damaged ISO. When I want to feel smug, I contemplate Vista's failure and what that means for the whole next generation of M$ crap and lock in.

      Vista is one of the best things that ever happened to free software. It's later, more restrictive more expensive and less functional than anyone could possibly have imagined. There is zero enthusiasm for it and a plenty of rejection.

      • Re:Vista makes me smile. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by suv4x4 ( 956391 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @12:30AM (#20819567)
        Just the same, I don't feel smug about how easily they damaged ISO. When I want to feel smug, I contemplate Vista's failure and what that means for the whole next generation of M$ crap and lock in.

        I'm not sure why it looks "easily" to corrupt ISO to you. It did take a lot of effort behind the scenes, give them credit where it's due.

        • I'm not sure why it looks "easily" to corrupt ISO to you. It did take a lot of effort behind the scenes, give them credit where it's due.
          In GP's defence, yeah, in some parts [noooxml.org] of the world it was ridiculously easy to pass OOXML. Microsoft didn't have to do much.

          • and it was risk free. (Score:3, Insightful)

            by Erris ( 531066 )

            ... in some parts of the world it was ridiculously easy to pass OOXML.

            In the US, the Wintel press has cranked up nonsense about how ooxml's demise was "political", which spins everything upside down. A company that owns it's own broadcast network, a sizeable number of newspapers, and spends a billion dollars a month in advertising does have it easy when it comes to blanketing the world with it's opinions.

            The attack was also easy because there is little downside to it from their persective. They hate

        • And it still wasn't enough. But I can't stop assuming that Microsoft just wasn't competent enough and next time it will be much easier with all the experience they gathered.

      • Re:Vista makes me smile. (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Technician ( 215283 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @01:56AM (#20820001)
        Vista is one of the best things that ever happened to free software. It's later, more restrictive more expensive and less functional than anyone could possibly have imagined. There is zero enthusiasm for it and a plenty of rejection.

        One of the best parts is WGA. Microsoft doesn't have the users who build their custom machines, but decide against the cost of the MS retail boxed version taxes. Spending $600-1200 on a custom box build soon finds the cost of an OS and Office suite a good part of building that can no longer be migrated from the old box. Alternatives to expensive restrictive software are now part of the cost decision.

        I used to upgrade hardware re-using my legal copy of Windows 98. XP and Vista have ended that process. XP now simply means it is residing on the oldest slowest machine in the house as it is not upgradable (without playing mother-may-I with Microsoft who may say no way). Vista is the same dead end. I am test driving Ubuntu Dapper Drake (the long term support distro), Fiesty Fawn (newer but has issues), and Freespire (out of the box rich Web browsing with codecs and flash) on my new home built hardware. XP will retire on the hardware it arrived on. In it's lifetime it only got a hard drive repalcement due to hardware failure and a memory upgrade. It won't be moving on to a Core 2 Duo box simply due to the EULA, vendor hardware specific recovery disc, and WGA to enforce it.

        Thank You Microsoft for closing the door on software re-use, right of first sale, and encouraging me to expand my horizons. I have learned the advantages first hand of not runing with administrator privilages, Software not vendor tied to hardware, open standards, community developement, GNU GPL, and no longer dealing with a per seat restrictive EULA.

        Thank You Red Hat, Caldera (pre SCO), Novell SUSE, Mozilla, Sun Microsystems, IBM, ODF, EFF, Adobe, and everyone else who made this possible.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Aladrin ( 926209 )
          I have to ask... What issues does Feisty Fawn have that Dapper Drake didn't? I found it to be solid and usable, and I ran it on 3 systems at once. (Work, home, and home 'server'.) I ran Dapper on 2 of them prior to that, and while it was stable, I find Feisty more useful. (Eyecandy, packages Drake doesn't have in the repos, etc.)

          I've got Gutsy installed at home now, and the 'server' off (just using the desktop for that as well), but Feisty at work still... SO looking forward next month to when I can j
          • What issues does Feisty Fawn have that Dapper Drake

            If you don't use the eye-candy and set it up from the default 2 desktops to 4 or 6, then you get desktops without toolbars. It's hard to switch desktops if you don't know the keyboard shortcut and the toolbar is missing. The networking is a little changed for SMB workgroups, so I can log into my server and transfer files just fine on my Dapper Drake box, but for some reason my Fiesty box hangs in a transfer. It crashes one Simple Share NAS of mine every

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Aladrin ( 926209 )
              I suspect you use Gnome and not KDE, eh? I think that may be the difference for interface... I'm not sure there's even a way to make KDE only show the taskbar on the primary desktop.

              As for the NAS... That's really odd. I've only rarely tried to connect to an SMB share from Linux... Mostly I'm hosting them. Afraid I can't be much help with that.
            • If you're running all Linux boxes, why use a backwards engineered Microsoft network protocol?

              Move everything over to NFS and use rsync for backup.

              Works like a charm, no matter what version of ubuntu or any other distro you're using. Break the paradigm in your network storage just like you broke the paradigm in your OS choice.

              Just a suggestion.
              • Move everything over to NFS and use rsync for backup.

                Agreed as soon as I install it. For some reason Ubuntu came with SMB client installed but not NFS client.

          • Re:Vista WGA (Score:3, Informative)

            by Technician ( 215283 )
            I think your fear of calling MS is unfounded. The phone people are tools and getting your registration updated is as simple as saying 'This is the only hardware this OS is installed on.' when they ask.

            That may be OK for a retail boxed version that comes with an install disk. This isn't OK for the OEM factory installed system. Just try to use a Dell recovery DVD on a homebuilt box. The EULA forbids the OS transfer and the recovery DVD program won't recover to another machine. With that in mind, the WGA

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Aladrin ( 926209 )
              Ah, so you aren't mad at MS, you're mad at Dell/Gateway/etc. I worked for a small shop and we bought OEM disks and there was none of that problem. In fact, I use the same disks with a (legal) Dell OEM code to reload Dells without the cruft and have no problems. I've done it for dozens of boxes, each with their own Dell OEM code from the release of XP until just recently, and never had an issue. I've also used that dell OEM code to install XP on a replacement box for dead Dells and never had a problem.

              Mi
              • I worked for a small shop and we bought OEM disks and there was none of that problem. In fact, I use the same disks with a (legal) Dell OEM code to reload Dells without the cruft and have no problems.

                Tell me more about reloading OEM Dell XP without the Cruft! Can it be done with the discs that shipped with the PC, or do you have to buy a replacement copy from Dell sans cruft?

                • Re: (Score:2)

                  by Aladrin ( 926209 )
                  Just get a generic OEM disc... I don't think Dell provides those at all. We buy them from NewEgg for customers that wish to purchase a new PC. A copy of the discs doesn't have any hidden codes embedded or anything, so will work with any matching OEM code.

                  Dell Windows XP Home OEM codes will work with any Windows XP Home OEM disc, etc. This is not entirely true, actually, as they ran out of codes and now you need the new Home OEM disc with all the new codes to guarantee new codes will work, and I don't ha
                  • I recommend keeping a Home OEM and Pro OEM copy around at all times, just in case, and just use the legal code from the PC Case to do the reinstall.

                    It's not legal for me to have both the Home and Pro copies. I'll have to check into the price of the OEM discs. I presume they are priced for the media only and contain no license as the license is in the sticker on the machine.

            • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

              by Ephemeriis ( 315124 )

              Just try to use a Dell recovery DVD on a homebuilt box. The EULA forbids the OS transfer and the recovery DVD program won't recover to another machine.

              I'm not sure what recovery DVD you're referring to... Perhaps something for Vista, or Media Center Edition? All of the Dells I've seen in the last year or two come with a recovery CD that works just fine on any machine. It's basically a regular WinXP install CD with a Dell label on it.

              We've got a bunch of these Dell recovery CDs floating around the office

              • Perhaps something for Vista, or Media Center Edition? All of the Dells I've seen in the last year or two come with a recovery CD that works just fine on any machine. It's basically a regular WinXP install CD with a Dell label on it.

                XP home edition on about a 5 year old Dell. I'll have to grab the disk. I haven't used it since the hard drive was replaced. I thought it was a Norton Ghost hard drive image, not an install disk.

                What you need to do is enter the OEM license from the sticker on the PC you're rel

                • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

                  by Ephemeriis ( 315124 )
                  You are correct, I did miss the point.

                  If you're moving to a new home made whitebox then you cannot move your licensing. OEM licensing is tied to the hardware itself.
                  • I'm building a newer PC and do all the time. Re-using XP from an OEM Dell on the new hardware is forbidden last time I checked.

                    This is why I thanked Microsoft. Instead of biting the bullet and throwing away a copy of XP with the Dell and then buying a new copy of XP for the new hardware, I tried the alternative. WGA and the tie of XP and Vista to the OEM Dell, HP and other machines is good for Open Source. You can migrate your data, but not your Microsoft OS. Thanks again for the nudge out of the nest.
                  • I didn't know that, since I had a dell OEM copy running on a homemade white box for a year before I moved over to Edgy... Never had an issue.

                    • ...I had a dell OEM copy running on a homemade white box for a year...
                      Some of the older Dell discs do not even ask for activation. On the newer discs there is nothing preventing you from typing in the license key on the sticker attached to your Dell box...or someone else's Dell box...or looking up a valid license key online...or bypassing WGA entirely... But none of that makes it legal. OEM licensing is supposed to be tied to the hardware.
                    • I didn't know that, since I had a dell OEM copy running on a homemade white box for a year before I moved over to Edgy...

                      I didn't know it would install on other hardware. I'm so used to all the other Norton Ghost disks that are vendor specific that fails on anything that isn't the genuine model it was made for.

                      I'm going to try Edgy when it's out of Beta. Maybe at the rebuild, I'll dual boot to run Turbo Tax.
                    • Gutsy is in beta, Edgy is one release back (6.10 = Edgy = Released October (the 10) 2006 (the 6)), Feisty is current (7.04 = Feisty = Released April (the 04) 2007 (the 7)), Gutsy is coming out this month (7.10 = Gutsy = Released October (the 10) 2007 (the 7)).

                      This has been brought to you by an Ubuntu user.
                    • Gutsy is in beta, Edgy is one release back

                      My bad. I mixed up the names. I skipped Edgy and simply went from Dapper (still running) and put Feisty on the new Core 2 Duo box. I'll try Gutsy when it's out of Beta later this month. Maybe it will play nicer with my NAS.
                    • Could be, I don't have any NAS stuff running in my house, the only network storage I use, I mount through NFS so it looks local.
            • Either your information is way out-of-date, or you're buying computers from Alternate Universe Dell instead of the Dell in our universe.

              Dell has included the full OS CD/DVD with every computer they've sold since Windows XP came out. That's the main reason I buy from them and not their competitors. (And I think it contributes a good amount to their success.) The "recovery CD" that came with your Dell doesn't include Windows, it includes all the machine-specific drivers only. The Windows CD/DVD that came with
              • The "recovery CD" that came with your Dell doesn't include Windows, it includes all the machine-specific drivers only. The Windows CD/DVD that came with your Dell will work on any piece of hardware as long as you have a valid OEM number.

                This I didn't know. It has been about 3 years since the hard disk failure and re-install.

                Technically, OEM numbers aren't transferrable between computers, but in reality Microsoft will always re-activate it if you ask.

                It is prohibited in the EULA. It was a big part of the "
        • without playing mother-may-I with Microsoft who may say no way

          Have you called them? They approve the reactivation 100% of the time, even if you tell them you're blatantly breaking the license. (I've had them refuse Office once, again when I was blatantly breaking the license, but never Windows.)

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by db32 ( 862117 )
          The funny thing is when I explain half of these things to people they just proudly assert "I can do that with Windows" explaining that they just have to do illegal things. I for one am thrilled that WGA and the draconian crap is getting tighter. People will start to see the noose around their neck.

          My only encounter with WGA was watching illegal copies not get flagged or otherwise harassed while my wife's legitimate copy on her Dell flagged and MS explained that we would have to wipe the drive and reins
  • that kind of humor makes one go jump with joy for having chosen IT field to work in

  • Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (Score:5, Informative)

    by tech10171968 ( 955149 ) on Monday October 01, 2007 @09:23PM (#20818393)
    I've already started seeing .docx format attachments in my email at the office. Never mind the fact that my office is nearly 100% Linux/FOSS (except for the sole Windows machine running proprietary apps requiring outdated API's); I'd figured that since the vast majority of companies I've seen haven't (yet) started to migrate to Office 2007 then maybe sending .docx fils to everyone might not be such a smart move. For now we simply kick these emails back along with a friendly reminder that we don't do .docx or OOXML here, and will never accept anyhting in that format. Microsoft says the 'O' in 'OOXML' stands for "open". My ass...

    • The medium is the message (Score:5, Insightful)

      by DeepBlueDiver ( 166057 ) on Monday October 01, 2007 @09:52PM (#20818627)

      I'd figured that since the vast majority of companies I've seen haven't (yet) started to migrate to Office 2007 then maybe sending .docx fils to everyone might not be such a smart move.
      Each time MS releases a new Office version, many corporate assholes^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H managers set a policy of using the new format on any communication. They don't care if you can't read the content, in fact, they hope you cant.

      Their message is "I am cool. I use the newest stuff. My dick is bigger than yours".
      • Really? What corporations? I've worked in several and this is new news to me. If you meant to say that many companies using MS software also purchase Software Assurance, then they upgrade to the newer version of the software (That's what SA gives them) after a pilot run, then sure. I agree.

        You and 90% of the other responses I've seen modded "Insightful" should just stop the reverse-FUD. You're only scratching each others backs and doing nothing to educate others of the benefits to alternative solutions. If

    • Re:Some have already sipped the Kool-Aid... (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 01, 2007 @10:39PM (#20818937)

      "open". My ass...
      That's the idea, yes.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by grcumb ( 781340 )

      "open". My ass...

      Change the punctuation a bit, and that's Microsoft's game plan in a nutshell....

  • the foot should have been on top of gate's head...

  • Microsft? A hero? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by WK2 ( 1072560 )

    Microsoft made a heroic -- and costly -- effort to discredit their own proposal, and we're sincerely grateful to them.

    If I see an armed mugger robbing two women, and then run away screaming, and the robber looks at me for a second, giving one of the women enough time to open a can of woop-ass, that doesn't make me a hero.

    • Re:Microsft? A hero? (Score:5, Funny)

      by Dak RIT ( 556128 ) on Monday October 01, 2007 @09:52PM (#20818629) Homepage
      A but you see there's no third party in this situation... the robber and the hero are one in the same.

      A better analogy would be the Yen Buddhists, who believe that the accumulation of money is a great evil and a burden on the soul and they therefore, regardless of personal hazard, see it as their unpleasant duty to acquire as much money as possible to reduce the risk to innocent people.[1]

      [1] With apologies to Terry Pratchett

  • They could win another award (Score:5, Funny)

    by Rolman ( 120909 ) on Monday October 01, 2007 @09:54PM (#20818639)
    If OOXML finally dies, shall we give Microsoft a Darwin Award [darwinawards.com]? Or perhaps a Richard Dawkins Award since it's a dying meme?

  • NO!!! (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Don't send the money to MS!!! Send it to me - I trolled bravely and gratuitously against/for whatever the thing is, and I've already send my money to Peru. Email me here to get contact info:

    ac@slashdot.org

  • On behalf, (Score:5, Funny)

    by sumdumass ( 711423 ) on Monday October 01, 2007 @10:24PM (#20818833) Journal
    I just got off the phone with Mr Bill. He said I am supposed to accept the award for Microsoft. The only problem is that I am busy on the night it would be awarded. I could make a teleconference appearance but sadly would need assistance in getting the money back to Microsoft. If it is wired to me, I couldn't get through customs and we all saw that movie with tom hanks who had to live in an airport.

    If anyone with a valid checking account could help with this, I am willing to give them a small convenience fee of 10% plus any expenses. Please down load my personal instant messaging program [wikipedia.org] and shoot me a message. If you have difficulty installing it, you can email me directly at 419 at nigeria.embasy [wikipedia.org] Notice I used the "at" instead of the "@" sign in the email address to avoid spammers and scammers.

    Thank you in advance to anyone able to help.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by RuBLed ( 995686 )
      I see that you're in dire straits now. I'm a very helpful person and would happily comply to your requests, I had even installed your program in my laptop and I like it. I would also like you to know that I'm very good at handling family fortunes, if you wont mind I could take care of your family's wealth. I'd even send you my laptop too, how about it?

  • FFII? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Speare ( 84249 ) on Monday October 01, 2007 @10:43PM (#20818961) Homepage Journal

    Is this the Japanese numbering of Final Fantasy II, or the USA releases?

  • "YEE-HAW!!! Let's go buy us some votes!!!" by The Redmond Cowboys

  • Unfortunately... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by vegiVamp ( 518171 )
    The problem is that this doesn't change much.

    They're still going to deploy it as the default document format for the new Offices. Lots of small and large companies are still going to upgrade their software at some point. OOXML is still very likely to become the new de facto standard due to common usage.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Xtifr ( 1323 )

      OOXML is still very likely to become the new de facto standard due to common usage.

      Whatever they came up with was likely to be a de facto standard of sorts. But blocking this from becoming a de jure standard is still a somewhat surprising victory, and we should celebrate winning a battle, even if the war is far from over.

      For that matter, for all its flaws, MSOOXML is an improvement over MS's older formats. While it may not be transparent like ODF, it is, at the least, fairly translucent compared to their earlier, opaque formats. The fact that they've gone as far as they have towards t

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Ilgaz ( 86384 ) *

      The problem is that this doesn't change much.

      They're still going to deploy it as the default document format for the new Offices. Lots of small and large companies are still going to upgrade their software at some point. OOXML is still very likely to become the new de facto standard due to common usage.

      For it to happen, they should do some guerilla coding. MS refuses to ship viewers for competing systems? Code a Cocoa (OS X), native Windows 95/98 (yes, old) and a JRE 5 application and make sure it is the easiest thing ever to install and use.

      What they do instead? They completely misunderstand Mac business scene, announce Aqua version will be stable in Q4 2008 and lag the 2.3.x OS X/X11 release a week or more while "Windows" version is released on time.

      I can't understand why OS X version is lagged? First

  • For all the noise they made it was the FFII who publically put money on the table, in the form of this award, with the goal of recruiting people to subvert the standards process. It is good to see that they have seen sense and chosen this route of getting out of their fix, good to see a little humer from them as well.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by qcomp ( 694740 )
      if you had read the press release you would have seen that there were indeed numerous genuine candidates (i.e., noOOXML-campaigns in several countries), which said they didn't need the money - and which, for all their activism and ingenuity, didn't manage to create the same level of disgust with the format that Microsoft schieved with all the committee stuffing and other shenanigans [noooxml.org] and the total lack of reasoned argument for the proposed standard.
      The best way to show that someone is an idiot is often to

  • MS is experienced in shooting their own foot (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @04:28AM (#20820605)
    Let's face it, folks. MS had the OS market in a stranglehold. They could've gotten away with pretty much anything. Bundling with hardware? No problem at all. Actually made the Average Joe user happy. Crappy bundled software like players and browsers? Zero problem either. Who doesn't know that there's better alternatives is happy with what he got. Mandatory registration? Already a bit of a nuisance to the average user (especially if he doesn't have internet access), but still bearable. Anyone will make a single phone call to use his computer.

    But then they stepped across the line where the average user grins and bears it. After a major repair, another call. After a few more, the spanish inquisition starts. People start to get nervous. They didn't do anything wrong, yet they feel as suspects for copying software. Software they bought honestly. People also care whether they can do what they used to do. Now DRM is hanging over their heads, and they start looking at their friends who use Linux, who don't have to call, who don't have to register, who get tons of software for free and legally so, and with the various installers the distributions have, it's also only a mouseclick away.

    People start to look around for alternatives. Being the moderator of a "non-geek tech board", I got a pretty good idea what bugs the "Average Joe" users and what direction they take. For about a year now, we have had a vastly increasing number in postings containing questions about Linux, which distribution to take, how to install it and how to get it going, quickly followed by quite happy notes how easy it was.

    I've been trying to talk them into it for a few years now. Until recently the response was mostly "What for?". Now there's a reason. So if anyone helped Linux become more of a mainstream system, it's MS.
  • by turning up to collect the prize, then donating it to charity for themselves?

  • *Kayak* award? (Score:3, Informative)

    by GogglesPisano ( 199483 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @09:49AM (#20822261)
    Point of order:

    This [kayakcam.com] is a kayak.

    These [noooxml.org] are canoes.

    That is all.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by pieterh ( 196118 )
      You're absolutely accurate. In fact this morning someone asked me "why does the site not have a photo of the kayaks?" and I answered, "because we used canoes, not kayaks, but we liked the sound of 'kayak' better. And, if I put up a photo, some smartass is going to point and say, 'dude, those are canoes, not kayaks'".

      I just love being right on a rainy Brussels afternoon.

Slashdot Top Deals

Arithmetic is being able to count up to twenty without taking off your shoes. -- Mickey Mouse

Close