Blender Compared To the Major 3D Applications 296
LetterRip writes "Recently TDT 3D published a comparison of the major 3D digital content creation applications such as Maya, 3DS Max, and XSI, and of course Blender. Blender came out surprisingly well, although it definitely still has some weaknesses."
Personal experience (Score:1, Interesting)
Cinema4d gets my vote, hands down. Great usability and very fast rendering.
Blender talks the talk, but damn learn to walk and stop crawling.
Re:It's the UI that kills it (Score:5, Interesting)
It's painful to LEARN, not use (though there are a few UI annoyances, like the non-standard save/load menu). I'd suggest if you really want to learn it, throw the tutorials (they often offer irrational, hard or just bad ways of doing things) and old knowledge out the window and learn it. Once you know it, you may understand why they kept the interface.
It's all bunk (Score:5, Interesting)
For 3d models to earn their name as "assets" they need to be created with infinite resolution. This is not hard. Constructive Solid Geometry [wikipedia.org] is a well understood technique for modeling and is typically used in CAD applications. An object described even at what would be considered a course level of detail of typical CSG modeling is orders of magnitude higher resolution than the typical game model. What's more, they can be incrementally improved, whereas the b-rep [wikipedia.org] that is typical for a game model today is a one shot affair.
Today, the vast majority of CSG models are created for raytracing architectures which, although they give stunning results [yafray.org], are too slow for realtime applications such as games. Even the attempts to create realtime raytracing systems are aimed at rendering b-reps because of the opportunity to perform an acceleration stage which greatly reduces the scene complexity. B-reps are a win for realtime applications, but just because your application requires a b-rep doesn't mean artists need to get their hands dirty pushing polygons.
Two solutions exist which can render CSG models in realtime.
The image-based rendering algorithms with implementations (such as OpenCSG [opencsg.org]) which take advantage of z-buffer and stencil-buffer hardware in popular GPU cards. The image-based systems are more compatible than raytracing with the current 3d graphics rendering state of the art, but still require intricacies to integrate that have prevented them from appearing on the market.
The other option is the automatic generation of a b-rep from a CSG model. This has the advantage that it requires no change to the 3d graphics rendering in games and the algorithm can be parametrically tuned to produce b-reps that are fast for different applications. For example, the same CSG model can be used to generate b-reps of different Level Of Detail for when the object is close up vs far away, or for pre-rendered applications such as cut scenes or trailers.
It just happens to be really hard.
Re:It's the UI that kills it (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, not only are these programs 4 stars to the industry leader 5s (and often beating them in many features), for people starting out with the blender or GIMP in highschool, 15 yrs old say, they have to factor in that blender will undergo 5 or more years of development before they hit the job market after uni. They'd be insane to learn a closed source one, which might go bust in that time, as opposed to coming into the market with 5 years of Blender and GIMP under their belt (and blender and gimp with all those new features).
So basically if you are already in the game, keep using the industry standards photoshop and maya etc. Remember they only got the blender sourcecode in late 2002, so as much as it's improved since the first open source release it will improve again in 5 yrs. And with a larger user base and more devs, it will likely move even faster.
Spend $30 on a good book for blender another $30 on the gimp, maybe another $30 on a python book to script both apps way further than your peers using close source stuff - go to the forums and make some good friends above and at your skill level for other advice. Then with the $1000s you were going to spend on close source edu versions and expensive manuals for them, don't forget you have to upgrade when you graduate, into something else maybe an investment account. You'll end up with better skills, better software, more friends and more money.
Industry people your calculation is simple, to stick with your software till you feel the open source stuff is good enough for you to make a move. Simple as that. But one thing you should do is shut the fuck up discouraging other people from using it like there is a chosen way.
It's the future ppl. kthxbye.
Blender UI :-( (Score:2, Interesting)
Again, I can't stress enough what a pain Blender's UI is compared to these other programs. I normally try to recommend FOSS programs to people, but this is one of those programs I'd only recommend if the person couldn't afford one of the other programs here.
Re:It's the UI that kills it (Score:4, Interesting)
It's been a while, so maybe they have better resources now. I'd be happy if they did.
Re:On the Interface (Score:1, Interesting)
However if you are used to it, the system works quite well, but you will run into difficulties if you want to switch to another software package.
Re:TAG THIS KDAWSONSUCKS (Score:-1, Interesting)
Hint: 3DS Studio Max does NOT cost 5000 euros, it is NOT twice the price of Maya Complete. The article is a completely last-minute fabrication with little real information.
Re:Blender came out surprisingly well ? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Blender rewarding once learnt. (Score:3, Interesting)
Doing that, I'll have to say that my productivity is better, in magnitude of 3X, in comparison with 3DS MAX. This applies especially to 3D modeling and mapping. I could not recommend Blender more, and as conclusion - interface is great, but you will have to take (some) time to learn it (half an hour in blender, for previous MAX user, is not enough). But one day of fooling around, doing tutorials, and you will become very productive). I would not change anything if that wold change the productivity and current speed and ease of use.
If you want to comment the UI, just take few days to explore it, do some tutorials, and you will see that this is the best (and fastest) way of doing things.
Everyone bitches about the ui, but... (Score:4, Interesting)
I "grew up" with 3d Studio MAX - Maya, Rhino, etc. all make my brain BLEED - not just because they're Not MAX (the way The GIMP is Not Photoshop) but because they're Not MAX the way Emacs is Not Vi.* 3d is HARD, dammit - hard to code, hard to learn. I'm picking up Silo pretty fast, but mostly because Silo seems to make it a point to do intuitively a lot of really basic things that are a massive assraping pain-in-the-ass to do in 3d Studio MAX.
That said, I have only two complaints about blender.
1. The open/save dialogue (as has been said elsewhere) does suck a load of flaming ass. Weapons grade Anthrax ass.
2. Like almost all modern 3d apps, you need a three button scroll-wheeled mouse to get ANY use out of the app at all. Which makes the app unuseable if you're using an input device, with, say... two buttons [kensington.com]. While that's all fine and good, it ought to be fairly trivial to poll the bus, check for pointing devices, and pop up a nice little "FOR OPTIMAL USE PLZ ATTACH 3-BUTTON SCROLLWHEEL THINGER. [DIAGRAM WITH FUNCTIONS OUTLINED]" if inadequate hardware is detected. If Blender did this, it would put it well ahead of commercial apps for first-impression useability.
* Pick any two apps that generate the same results but go about it using completely contradictory and counterintuitive methods. Same principle.
Re:Automatic translation is funny (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:It's the UI that makes it (Score:5, Interesting)
I wrote a program that converts TheSims models to OBJ format and back again. As part of that, I had to 'learn' a modeller and chose MilkShape3D. I say 'learn' because it took only a few minutes. I've also played with a few other modellers and they all had the same concepts, and the basic functions were all easy to find. (Add polys, move vertexes, apply textures, etc.)
I picked up Blender because I'd heard such good things about it. I spent 2 hours trying to figure out how to apply a texture to a model, another half an hour searching the web for the info, and another hour following a tutorial step by step to figure it out. I tried again without the tut and had lost it already.
Blender's UI is so completely anti-intuitive that it's impossible to just use, you MUST be trained. (Or self-trained.) This may be acceptable for those who never use computers and only want to use Blender, but the rest of us expect to be able to figure it out without a printed manual.
I wonder if it's just chance that the Gimp also has tons of interface complaints?
standard (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Everyone bitches about the ui, but... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:It's the UI that kills it (Score:3, Interesting)
I have no experience with 3D modeling at all, but I'm interested in it. If Blender really is that hard to use, I want to be discouraged from using it, because I don't want to waste months trying to learn it.
I don't mind an unintuitive interface. Vi took be about 10 minutes to get the hang of, but it was the standard editor at my university at that time, so we got a list of all the important commands and it was easy to ask someone for help. GIMP, on the other hand, I never got the hang of. Perhaps because I just started it and didn't have a good tutorial or tutor. I'm looking at thousands of buttons and have no idea what any of them do.
So for Blender, what I'm really interested in is: is there a good tutorial that shows me the ropes? If I don't know what a button or option does, is there documentation that tells me what it does, and what that means because I don't understand the jargon at all. And if I want to do something and don't know how, is there some sort of help that explains how to do it? That is what I'm interested in: is Blender good for a newbie like me?
And also: once I've learned it, am I more or less productive than with the alternatives? Because with the months-long learning curves that the article mentions, $800 for a more productive system is a pretty smart investment once you're out of college. I can afford $800, but I can't afford too waste months struggling with something that turns out to be too painful to use.
Re:It's the UI that makes it (Score:5, Interesting)
We have very similar backgrounds. I was a Surveyor in about the same era, and got into 3D modelling via mine design and surveying software (Surpac, DataMine). I started my own 3D software collection with Imagine, then Lightwave on the Amiga. I used Truespace from a coverdisk, tried C4D, and a few other packages.
I still haven't settled into using a single tool. My collection includes Hexagon modeller, Sketchup Pro, Bryce, Cinema 4D, and yes, Blender.
Each has their strengths. For some people, the time cost of learning the tool is higher than it's worth. It sound like that's the case for you. For me, I like being able to be productive anywhere and on any computer, and Blender on a thumb drive does that for me.
In any case, now that I'm used to it, I find there's things I can do quicker in Blender than with the other tools
Re:Blender rewarding once learnt. (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:It's the UI that makes it (Score:3, Interesting)
Funnily enough, that's what I thought the first time I encountered vi....
It's a shame the interface doesn't work for you. I'm not a professional graphics guy, sound is more my bag, but I used to do compositing for a living and my brother currently does 3D graphics professionally and both of us agree blender is an excellent tool - especially in terms of productivity. Once you get past the need to learn special keys and modes and such, it really is so quick to do things that take forever in other interfaces. I guess it's horses for courses.
Just remember to run it on Linux - I don't know about OSX, but it's very slow on windows
Re:uphill both ways. (Score:3, Interesting)
I can use a sliderule, also.
Re:Blender UI :-( (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:It's the UI that kills it (Score:3, Interesting)
Wise insight. Like learning to ride a bicycle.
Re:it's all in the details (Score:3, Interesting)
The professional user base for Blender is fairly large, it is just a different target market.
The fluid dynamics was a number of full years of developer time. You've clearly never developed any significant feature for a 3D application.
All of the features listed are used in production environments, the feature animation movie Plumiferos made use of pretty much every feature including fluids, cloth, the particle system, etc.
Actually Maya and Max don't have that either - the number of users for the advanced features for all of the 3D applications is quite small. For fluids people will tend to switch to RealFlow, for Cloth people will tend to use Syflex
Here is what 'real 3D artists who have been in the industry for years and depend on their 3D application system for their living.' actually say
zaon [zaon.org]
the post is by ZaonDude who is famous (among 3D artists) for comparison of high end 3D renderer quality.
LetterRip