Vista's 40 Million License Sales In Context

Overly Critical Guy writes "Microsoft's figure of 40 million Vista OEM licenses sold has less impact when weighed against the expanded size of the PC market, according to IDC numbers. The myriad of factors involved in determining success in the market makes Microsoft's constant comparisons to Windows XP less reliable as a growth indicator — particularly with Microsoft refusing to reveal the number of actual activated Vista licenses. 'HP reported year-over-year PC sales growth of about 24 percent, or about twice worldwide PC sales growth. Whatever HP is doing right, it's more than just Vista ... If Microsoft wasn't so hung up on XP comparisons as the benchmark, it could really demonstrate that Vista sales are increasing. The first 20 million figure really represented four months of sales, and that could have been positive data because Microsoft protected its customers' holiday investments. For free! Instead of making that point, Microsoft got carried away with making comparisons back to XP.'"

Did the world end ?

[OeLeWaPpErKe]

I have one thing to say for microsoft selling 40 million vista licences in a week :

Well done

Because it is well done. I'm sure they're not playing entirely fair, but still, it's their success, they built it, they earned the reward for it. And it does look nice. Let them have their reward.

I'm a linux man myself. I doubt that will ever change. But I feel no need whatsoever to destroy microsoft.

Re:

[vivaoporto]

I have one thing to say for Microsoft selling 40 million vista licences in a week:

Holly crap!

Re:Did the world end ?

[gEvil (beta)]

Wow! Does Holly do that on demand? She could have a pretty lucrative film career...

Re:

[nutshell42]

And the harder MS's PR department spins the figures to proclaim total success, the less people will believe Steve (Chair-throwing Steve, not Turtleneck Steve) when he calls for more DRM to stop the rampant piracy of MS intellectual property which threatens the very kind of revolutionary innovation we've seen in Vista (like a 3D accelerated Solitaire).

Re:Did the world end ?

[GuyverDH]

It wasn't well done, or earned. It was blackmail pure and simple. Look, in the course of contract negotiations, all of the major PC vendors want the best possible price for an OS license. In order to get that best price, Microsoft has, in the past, forced the vendor to purchase a license for every machine sold, regardless of the OS to be installed. Even if you ordered your Dell or Gateway with RedHat/Ubuntu/whatever pre-loaded, the vendor would have to purchase a Windows license for that machine. If they didn't agree to those terms, they didn't get their price break, and may have been threatened with being left out of the OEM program altogether, meaning they'd have to buy full retail versions for each machine. No vendor could survive having to pay $200-$300 for Windows, and more for Office to include on their $600 pc.

Re:Did the world end ?

[GuyverDH]

The above information was obtained directly from an ex-employee of an OEM that was involved in the contract negotiations with Microsoft.

Re:

[lawpoop]

The above information was reportedlyobtained directly from an ex-employee of an OEM that was involved in the contract negotiations with Microsoft.

Fixed that for you.

Re:

[rolfwind]

Have you been hiding in a hole in the ground? Dell is going be selling Ubuntu Linux PCs....

Re:

[MazzThePianoman]

Not to mention DOS, the foundation of a lot of what MS is today was bought from somebody else for only $50k. Smart business but without social and moral responsibility it is really something to cheer about?

Re:Did the world end ?

[Bamafan77]

It wasn't well done, or earned. It was blackmail pure and simple. Look, in the course of contract negotiations, all of the major PC vendors want the best possible price for an OS license. In order to get that best price, Microsoft has, in the past, forced the vendor to purchase a license for every machine sold, regardless of the OS to be installed.

I never quite understood this bit of criticism about Microsoft. Blackmail is when you threaten to tell someone's spouse that he/she cheated on them unless they give you a million dollars. MS signed a contract saying that they'd offer discounts IF they didn't sell competing products. There is nothing evil about this. If you don't like the terms, walk. If you can't survive without the price breaks, why is that MS's problem?

And why are we feeling sorry for people like Michael Dell, again? Lest we forget, this man became a multi billionaire largely due to the "blackmail" contracts he signed with Microsoft. Gateway also made billions in sales from MS contracts.

Re:

[nanosquid]

And why are we feeling sorry for people like Michael Dell, again? Lest we forget, this man became a multi billionaire largely due to the "blackmail" contracts he signed with Microsoft.

Dell is rich because they are selling good products in a competitive market. Gates is rich because he managed to establish an illegal monopoly and continues monopolistic practices.

And this isn't about "feeling sorry" for Dell, it's about the fact that he is trying to offer alternative products that people want to buy, and Mic

Re:

[GuyverDH]

MS signed a contract saying that they'd offer discounts IF they didn't sell competing products. There is nothing evil about this. If you don't like the terms, walk. No... You got that wrong. MS Refused to sign a contract allowing Dell to buy MS products at substantial discount, unless they signed saying they WOULDN'T sell competing products. See how changing the wording makes this evil... If Dell hadn't signed, they'd have been forced to one of 2 things.. #1) Don't provide any MS products #2) Raise pr

Re:Did the world end ?

[lawpoop]

Because the contract was negotiated by a monopoly. You don't have a choice when you're dealing with a monopoly. It's not a free market scenario, because there is no competition.

In a free market, you can say, "I don't like the terms your offering me; change them or I will go with the other guy." In a monopolized market, you either get it *at their price* or you don't. There is no negotiation or exchange. It's a dictation of the terms. In our market, MS is the sole provider of a usable Windows API.

Re:

[mackyrae]

Monopoly doesn't mean no competition at all. It means no substantial competition. Gates does not live in fear that he'll wake up tomorrow with only 10% of the market. Linux and MacOSX are not substantial competition. They're minorities. Windows is on 90% of computers, and that qualifies as a monopoly. Also, as the other responder noted, the software you buy off the shelf is usually for the Windows API. I've never seen software at Best Buy that said it was Linux compatible. I've downloaded plenty o

Re:Did the world end ?

[loconet]

"I feel no need whatsoever to destroy microsoft."

As a Linux user, who also makes a living out of using Linux as a tool every day, I don't find myself sharing the same feeling. When Microsoft threatens [slashdot.org] not only my work, my income, but also my way of life, I can't help to see the need to see Microsoft completely destroyed. It's a funny thing, this "evolved" survival instinct. It is hard to ignore.

Re:

[fyoder]

I can't help to see the need to see Microsoft completely destroyed.

Given the number of entities that depend on MS software, this would not be a good thing in the short term. But since it's highly unlikely, I won't lose any sleep over that possibility.

What would be good is for MS to gradually decline to just one provider of operating systems amongst several, all with similar market share. That would compel them to honestly pursue interoperability with other platforms. I think that scenario is one which we can hope for over the long term.

Re:

[WhiplashII]

As a human, we are finally able to force our surroundings to adapt to us, rather than us adapting to our surroundings. As nature gave us this, it is natural - and shows a marvelous work of evolution (or god, if you want).

So seeking to destroy Microsoft when it is being annoying is completely natural, and in line with the actions of a highly evolved being.

Makes me worry about you, frankly...

Re:

[dpilot]

You missed his point. He feels his current livelihood is threatened by Microsoft and his practices. Wishing to see Microsoft destroyed is an interpretation of protecting himself.

Next you say, He should be able to adapt the the changes Microsoft causes.

The simple reply is that it's like moving from a tropical paradise to a desert. Microsoft has impoverished the software landscape. Sure, in a Microsft world there are others, but they turn out to be minor players heavily rooted in a Microsoft sofware ecosystem

Re:

[nine-times]

I don't feel that Microsoft needs to be destroyed, either. It'd be nice if they started doing some useful work, though. Or at least quit sabotaging other people's work.

Re:

[Gablar]

I have a vista license. Microsoft together with my school were so infinitely gracious that they decided to give away 200 licenses for CS students( keep in mind that my school payed for those licenses, they were not gifts, they were just highly discounted). Not that I know all two hundred students but the buzz is that vista is crap, and I personally don't know anyone who installed it and didn't revert to XP.` SO of those 40 million copies, how many are real users? I can't help but to wonder.

Nice sample size!

[mattgreen]

Re-read what you just wrote. Step back a little, if you have to. You're a CS student, and you don't see anything wrong with generalizing results for 40 million copies based upon how it was received by 200 computer science students? What sort of logic is that? Just because it matches up with your perception doesn't make it sound.

Re:

[Gablar]

I agree the sample size is ridiculous,I didn't mean to imply that the 40 million copy sold is not a valid number. It's just that I find it highly unlikely that mine was the only school in the world to receive a deal similar to mine . What I really meant to say was that although they have sold 40 million copies it doesn't mean they have 40 million users, which is the benchmark they are really after if they want widespread adoption. The example was bad.

Re:

[nschubach]

keep in mind that my school payed for those licenses

You do realize it was you that paid for that license, don't you? They probably increased everyone's tuition and included that to try to sell the school as "giving students the tools". On that note, your school most likely also signed a deal with Microsoft (like a certain former school I went to) that stated something like: "If you want this discounted software, you have to remove Macromedia ___ from all PCs on campus."

Re:Did the world end ?

[Reliant-1864]

I bought a pre-installed Vista machine and replaced it with XP. Being a monopoly on the PC, sales are bound to go up for Vista simple because people are buying PCs, and Vista is coming with it. That their Vista sales are lower than PC sales, in addition to counting the sales, shows just how many PCs are shipping without Vista, the supposed default. When Microsoft has a 94% market, why are their Vista sales only accounting for half of the PCs?

If you want to see numbers on popularity, try and get the numbers on people buying boxed Vista, and compare it to people who bought boxed XP. I seem to remember boxed XP flying off the shelves for people wanting to upgrade, but who's buying boxed Vista? Microsoft won't release those numbers because it will show how much of a flop Vista has been, and its only because of their monopoly that it's getting sold at all. Vista is a huge example on the amount of damage Microsoft is inflicting on the industry by having a stranglehold on the OS that ships. They're forcing people to pay for an inferior product on purchasing a PC, then charging them for XP when they want to replace it

Re:

[aarroneous]

>>I have one thing to say for microsoft selling 40 million vista licences in a week : No one said anything about selling 40 million licenses in a week. Stop starting idiotic rumors. The 40 million number is total number of licenses "sold" since they started last year, including all the free upgrades. The truth is that Vista is a flop, and no amount of spin will change that fact.

Re:

[someone1234]

>But I feel no need whatsoever to destroy microsoft. Me neither, they'll destroy themselves. I don't know if the 40m is good or bad, and i don't care at all. I care with this new fangled patent threat, it shows that they feel cornered and unsatisfied with their Vista sales.

The PC world still turns...

[mollog]

Microsoft selling software is like Exxon selling gasoline. Except that Exxon has better sense than to brag about their monopoly.

But this is a case of "...methinks the lady doth protest too much..."; Microsoft is worrying about losing their monopoly to free software (linux, especially linux servers) and better software (Apple's OS). The louder they talk about market share, but more suspicious it looks.

To me, there are some other pretty important developments that have been going on, such as yesterday's report here on Slashdot about the NYSE replacing IBM mainframes with IBM AIX and with Linux.

I don't know how many people were around when Microsoft successfully spiked the Unix market with their FUD about workstation NT running on RISC processors. At the time, the Unix server and workstation companies were talking about converging their various flavors of Unix. This would have allowed more and better cross-platform compatibility of distributed application software. Microsoft countered with a campaign to run Windows NT on RISC processors as an alternative. DEC, HP and others squandered resources on this effort and the Unix market withered. Microsoft's campaign even had consulting businesses like Gartner Group predicting that NT would replace both Unix and the mainframe in a few years time. HP even went so far as to try to munge its PA RISC processor with the Intel x86 processor (Itanium) with the goal of running both x86 and Unix code on one platform. Intel never delivered on the early promises of that project, but they got HP's processor technology for their troubles.

Looking back, you have to hand it to Microsoft for the brilliant way they marginalized Unix. Problem is, they never did supply a replacement server platform except for some lousy versions of NT on Intel processors (And into that void slips Linux.)

I'm guessing that Windows XP represents the peak of Microsoft's work. Vista was years late, and the future of processors; cell, multi-core, distributed computing, internet-based applications, cell phone computers - will be beyond Microsoft's narrow, one-user/one-cpu, world view. Office productivity software has matured, gaming programming is moving onto GPUs and Microsoft's operating system is becoming less and less relevant.

Re:

[cthellis]

Microsoft selling software is like Exxon selling gasoline. Except that Exxon has better sense than to brag about their monopoly.

ExxonMobil is huge, exerts much influence, and makes dickloads of profit, but they have nowhere NEAR [reuters.com] the stranglehold Microsoft does.

Re:

[dn15]

Because after all, Windows Vista only uses one core if your processor has more than one. Any other cores are secretly used by the OS to generate pure evil.

As was the case with XP Home, Vista Home will only use one processor. It will take advantage of multiple cores on that processor, but ignores any more than one physical processor. That seems pretty silly to me since tons of free Linux and *BSD distributions will let you use multiple processors, and in the Mac world the same copy of the OS happily uses a

Re:

[rm999]

I am really happy to see someone on Slashdot being mature about this. Yeah, most of us are against Windows, but when people claim that 40 million sales are a flop (just because it is MSFT) - or display any other form of sour grapes - it makes us look bad as a community.

Wishing that Vista was a failure does not make it so.

Re:

[HermMunster]

Microsoft is a self-destructive organization. What I mean is that their whole company persona is one of negativity and threats against their users, and those that don't use them. Only one type of company threatens those that don't use their product--a self-destructive one. It would be like the gas companies calling you thieves because you use the gasoline of another company that maybe copied your process for processing gasoline (which by the way you probably copied years ago). With the new rules for det

Re:

[gerrysteele]

The digg.com fugees must have came here too

Don't kid yourself.

[fwarren]

Microsoft not releasing the activation numbers is a sure sign that they are not good.

Beyond that, things even look less rosy. Yes there are plenty of places that have Vista licenses and have not bothered to load them, xp woks just fine.

My own personal antidote, I deal with 4 machines (laptops) that came with Vista. My wifes laptop at home, she could only put up with it for about 2 weeks. She dual boots Ubuntu and XP. With the XP only used for popcap games.

At work, there is my laptop, which now runs only Ubu

7 articles on Vista sales

[suv4x4]

If my memory serves right, this is the 7-th article talking about Vista sales alone. Not Vista bugs, not Vista speed, not Vista features, just Vista's initial sales.

I think I speak for the majority of Slashdot's readers, that we don't fucking care about Vista's sales that much.

They mean nothing and the actual trend will be known in 8-9 months from now (you can be sure Vista will see decent adoption either way, because if it doesn't Microsoft will be forced to address the worst problems in a SP).

So please stop wasting our time with this. We can live on without reading yet again about Vista's sales, in context, or out of it.

Re:7 articles on Vista sales

[goombah99]

Time to say Hasta La Vista, Baby.

Re:7 articles on Vista sales

[heinousjay]

I'm with you, dude. This is beating off a dead horse.

Re:7 articles on Vista sales

[u-bend]

Talk about niche pr0n. Horses are common enough, but dead ones? Whew, my world just got a little bigger.

Re:

[HermMunster]

Lol, but I sort of envisioned it as a Pig With Lipstick. Haha, Vista is a pig with lipstick.

Re:

[Shados]

People on Slashdot seems to care a WHOOOOOOOOOOOOLE lot when the news is abotu Vista -NOT- selling, though...

Re:

[lilomar]

Agreed.

Can I ask you a question?

[Overly Critical Guy]

I think I speak for the majority of Slashdot's readers, that we don't fucking care about Vista's sales that much. [...] So please stop wasting our time with this. We can live on without reading yet again about Vista's sales, in context, or out of it.

Then can I ask you something? Why did you click the Read More link on the front page, read the summary, click Reply, and type out an entire post if you don't fucking care? I have a much more effective solution to your problem--use the scrollbar on the right side of the window to move right past the article you don't like.

You're welcome!

Re:

[suv4x4]

Then can I ask you something? Why did you click the Read More link on the front page, read the summary, click Reply, and type out an entire post if you don't fucking care?

I provided "feedback", in the hope it improved Slashdot. If we all just ignore the noise, a point comes where the noise completely masks the useful articles. Then what do we do?

Re:

[Overly Critical Guy]

Your feedback would be more effective by ignoring the articles you don't want to read. All you did for Slashdot was give them more page views and a higher comment count, proving the article was worth posting.

Re:

[suv4x4]

Your feedback would be more effective by ignoring the articles you don't want to read. All you did for Slashdot was give them more page views and a higher comment count, proving the article was worth posting.

Oh yea, solid logic there. DIGG should've kept erasing comments of their users then, that generated quite some traffic to their site.

Re:

[suv4x4]

How about /. throws up yet another story about potential sales of the iPhone (which is not released yet) and the story will be a hit. I've seen at least 50 stories about projected iPhone sales and current and past iPod, iTunes, and Mac sales along with the Zune as well. Those should be as equally news worthy as Vista sales correct?

Not really. Thing is, I don't think people like reading the same thing over and over on whatever the topic is.

The fact that sites and magazines think recycling Apple and Microsoft

Re:

[Gilmoure]

What about Carmageddon? I think there's a Linux version.

Uh, guys?

[Otter]

"Microsoft's figure of 40 million Vista OEM licenses sold has less impact when weighed against the expanded size of the PC market, according to IDC numbers.

Ummm, the only reason anyone cares about those numbers is because of their impact when weighed against all the gloating from clowns who were estimating sales in the low three-digits.

Re:

[jedidiah]

Force-fed OEM sales will garauntee millions of sales. So getting excited about how many units Microsoft pushes out the door really isn't very interesting. The collective reaction should be "so what?" or "how can people NOT buy the turd?".

It's been this way for more than 10 years.

Re:

[Otter]

Remember this [slashdot.org]? Or this [slashdot.org]? Or this [slashdot.org]?

Re:

[R3d M3rcury]

Clearly, actual Vista sales to consumers are disappointingly low [...]

Yeah, but y'know, operating system upgrade sales have always been low. I heard it took Windows XP over a year to hit the one million mark. That's not to say there were only 1 million people using Windows XP after a year. It's that only one million people went out and bought the upgrade.

The vast majority of Windows users don't upgrade their operating system. They upgrade their computer. If they want Vista, they go buy a new computer to run it on. It's alot easier than buying the upgrade and discoverin

Please Explain

[asphaltjesus]

Why the media takes Microsoft's word as reliable in any way shape or form?

Maybe it is just a matter of there appears to be little market for _actual_ news as opposed to what is fed to the media from corporate/government sources.

I'd like to hear some opinions because I don't want to be that cynical.

Re:

[csguy314]

I wouldn't say there's little market for it, but there's certainly incentives for media companies to go along with those big corporate sources. Especially since those media companies are one in the same with the big corporate sources. And the line between big corporations and the government continues to become blurred, especially with the current US administration.

Logical Fallacy

[asphaltjesus]

Therefore, Microsoft has an incentive to tell the truth about things like revenue, which would affect its stock price. If it knowingly lied, people would go to jail.

You must be new here.

The "truth" you speak of is a Accounting/Finance obligation, NOT Marketing. So, marketing can, and does frequently abuse the facts.

I'm not sure why it is you trust them, their security and interoperability proclamations have been complex lies for years. Their Vista proclamations are more of the same. At best they can be called misleading half-truths. Hopefully, the spirit of intentionally misleading consumers hasn't reached the Accounting/Finance department.

Re:

[bogjobber]

What planet are you from? Yes, they can say misleading things about security and interoperability, because those things are subjective. That's what marketing does, they try to make everything look as shiny as possible. But they can't lie about something that is easily and accurately measured such as sales figures. If they did that they would face some very heavy penalties, not only from the government but more importantly from the shareholders.

Another Failed Assumption

[asphaltjesus]

But they can't lie about something that is easily and accurately measured such as sales figures.

Yes, they most certainly can. Marketing can call "Sales" whatever they want. Much like politics, some vague approximation of the truth legitimizes their behavior, but no one goes to jail for their crazy claims.

Accounting, OTOH, will report sales in a GAAP way, but that way is very non-specific and intentionally allows any company some secrecy balanced with accountability and transparency. The GAAP rules allow f

Why is this here?

[gr8_phk]

Not many on slashdot care a whole lot about Vista sales.
Even fewer care what MS marketing says about Vista sales.
Nobody cares what someone else says about what MS says about Vista sales.

Re:

[thammoud]

Please mod parent up. I am equally sick of Vista sales. I hope that there are more interesting things going on out there. Please stop this boring crap.

Re:

[linguae]

Not many on slashdot care a whole lot about Vista sales.

I disagree. Since most of us are either students in computing fields, or work in some aspect of the computer industry, we are all affected by how well (or poorly) Microsoft sells Vista. If Vista sells well, we'll all have to use it, eventually, whether we like it or not. Microsoft still has that power. However, if Vista does not sell well, then a good number of us won't have to worry about touching it.

So, yes, the sales of Vista do impact Slash

Re:

[Reality Master 101]

However, if Vista does not sell well, then a good number of us won't have to worry about touching it.

It doesn't matter how well Vista sells at the moment. It's inevitable that all new computers will sell Vista, just like it was inevitable that new computers sold XP. We had exactly these same stories when XP came out. After Vista achieves a critical mass and everyone is used to it, everyone else will slowly upgrade..

It is simply impossible in the current world that Vista won't eventually be the mainstr

Re:

[Reality Master 101]

Vista is so disappointing that even the fanboys are ignoring it and sane people are forbiding it in their work places.

Where is this mass disappointment? It doesn't exist in the normal world. Sure, there's a lot of wishful thinking, but there's not exactly huge lines outside Best Buy returning Vista. Like I said, we had EXACTLY the same stories last time. "XP is getting slow adoption", "Everybody hates XP's new crayola user interface", "Even new computer manufacturers are offering Win/2000 or ME instead

Re:

[Reality Master 101]

Right not, it simply is not cost effective to upgrade to Vista.

Oh? And why was it cost effective three years ago when XP came out? What's different? All the PHB needs to hear is "better security" (which is true, although not perfect).

Furthermore, since MSO2007 does not create documents in the file formats that the government accepts, there is no point to using MSO2007.

Au contraire, Office has a plugin for ODF.

Re:Why is this here?

[$RANDOMLUSER]

So that makes your post "what someone says about what someone says about what MS says about Vista sales", which makes my post "what someone says about what someone says about what someone says about what MS says about Vista sales"...

Re:

[Red Flayer]

Not many on slashdot care a whole lot about Vista sales.

That's funny, why then were there som many comments to the last Vista sales article?

Even fewer care what MS marketing says about Vista sales.

Agreed... except, of course, that what they say about their sales affects what other people think about their sales. Such as, for instance, the people signing the POs for new systems this year. Plenty of management types will isten to this, and assume that since Vista is selling so well, it must be a good thin

SO DON'T READ IT OR POST TO THE FUCKING ARTICLE

[Overly Critical Guy]

Why do people whine about stories they don't like IN THE COMMENTS FOR THAT VERY STORY? If you don't want to read something, fucking scroll past it on the front page!

Many people care about this because it's a sign of Microsoft's downward spiral and their inability to release worthy updates to their flagship products. We sat through five years of marketing promises, and now we're sitting through months of sales promises, all while this company is threatening us through non-specific patent claims. And you w

Thus Sayeth The Marketers...

[Penguinisto]

Seriously - marketing gets paid to put a happy face on any sales news - be it wonderful, good, bad, evil, or SCO-Unix style.

Twisting statistics, taking 'em out of context, anything, anything at all to make things look good. IMHO, Vista sales aren't drastically bad, but they aren't meeting (let alone exceeding) the hype, either.

Thing is though, marketing could literally kill MSFT in the long run. Right now, IMHO, Ballmer need to be fired, and whoever takes his place need to sit down, figure out what all

Re:

[heinousjay]

Clearly you have uncanny vision and a knack for running large companies few men could match.

Re:

[Dan Ost]

Wait 'til he gets going!

Re:

[Timesprout]

Thing is though, marketing could literally kill MSFT in the long run. Right now, IMHO, Ballmer need to be fired, and whoever takes his place need to sit down, figure out what all MSFT is spending cash on, and jettison all departments that aren't making money. Instead, we see MSFT believing its own delirious hype, and may well end up deluding itself clean into oblivion.

I'll bet the headhunters are just breaking your door down now with requests to head up multi billion dollar corporations after reading your

Re:

[Penguinisto]

Who would have guessed it was all so simple.

In the large view - it is. IBM did it (and in some ways are still doing it), Novell had to do it, Apple had to do it... what makes MSFT so immune?

(so how about something cogent next time - or are sniveling attempts at sarcasm all that you're capable of?)

/P

Re:

[Timesprout]

Well lets see. You proposed a strategy for a new CEO and retrenchment. SOP for a company in financial difficulty. You bring a hachet man to break the company up, close loss making divisions and sack half the workforce to reduce costs. Its just astonishing to me that Wall Street does not concur with your vision of what MS needs but then they are ususally loathe to break up successful organisations with proven leadership. Perhaps you know something about Microsoft's accounts that no one else does.

IBM did it (

Re:

[Penguinisto]

Well lets see. You proposed a strategy for a new CEO and retrenchment. SOP for a company in financial difficulty. You bring a hachet man to break the company up, close loss making divisions and sack half the workforce to reduce costs.

Eh? When did I mention sacking "half the workforce"?

Its just astonishing to me that Wall Street does not concur with your vision of what MS needs but then they are ususally loathe to break up successful organisations with proven leadership. Perhaps you know something about Microsoft's accounts that no one else does.

I'm only looking at the basics - MSFT has exactly two money-making divisions - Windows and Office. Everything else is losing money to various degrees. R&D and new ventures I have no problems with, but obvious flops like the Zune? C'mon... you can't possibly justify keeping that thing alive. MSN Internet? Even AOL is getting out of that business, and if it weren't for Qwest and the likes of Best Buy dragging it along as a bundle or rebate bennie,

Re:

[orclevegam]

Right now, IMHO, Ballmer need to be fired, and whoever takes his place need to sit down, figure out what all MSFT is spending cash on, and jettison all departments that aren't making money.

Microsoft has been a monopoly for so long they don't know what they do anymore. The whole business is built around the concept that they own the desktop and can just muscle anyone else out of the scene, rather than spending money to develop superior products. The problem is, some competing products have managed to squeeze in and provide people with some actual choices, and people have started to ask some questions about what exactly it is Microsoft is providing. Now, if Microsoft can recover from this or n

Re:

[Penguinisto]

Now, if Microsoft can recover from this or not is hard to say, they could be on a downhill trend (although it's a very big hill, so they won't hit bottom for a VERY long time), or they may turn around and actually provide some compelling reasons to stay with their software.

Inertia will keep 'em alive for quite a long time, and it's true that they may never really die off completely. Unisys once was an 800-lb computing gorilla. Towards the end, the most influence they had in the IT world was the GIF patent (among a handful of others), but aside from legacy systems here and there, no one gave a damn about them - they got passed by. What do they do nowadays? Tandem was once a big player, as was Amdahl, Cray, Wang, Texas Instruments, and lots of other companies who made their

Article from April 18th

[Tribbin]

Only 244 Genuine Windows Vista's Sold in China

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/18/151221 6 [slashdot.org]

Re:Article from April 18th

[figleaf]

There was a subsequent story on slashdot which said that the article you linked was incorrect.

Are they counting my non-license?

[parvenu74]

Does that 40,000,000 figure count the license that was bundled with my Dell laptop? I bought my lapper in March and at the time Dell's website didn't have the option to have it pre-loaded with XP. The FIRST thing I did was wipe the hard drive and load XP, and I suspect thousands, if not millions of people have done that to the machines they've bought. Moreover, even if I wanted on my machine I would get an OEM copy of Vista Ultimate, in which case MS gets to show that they've sold two licenses to me. How many of the rest of you are in this boat?

MS is doing what they do best: marketing, marketing, marketing and not letting quality control or the facts get in the way.

Re:

[Crispy Critters]

"Does that 40,000,000 figure count the license that was bundled with my Dell laptop?"

Oops. Apologies for the error.

Editors, please change the headline to "Vista's 39,999,999 License Sales In Context."

Seriously, Microsoft is probably not concerned about the tiny percentage of people who know enough to convert their machines to dual boot with Linux. They really don't care about people who pay for a Vista license and then use XP (you're still paying to feed the monopoly and still using monopoly software

Re:

[AutopsyReport]

I thought about doing the same thing when I bought a new laptop a few months ago, but then I realized Vista is actually a good operating system and there's no sense in taking a step back to XP. The security warnings get annoying quick, but a few minutes of searching on the Web took care of that. With Aero disabled, Vista looks almost identical to XP. And I'm certain few people have reformatted to XP given that they just paid for a copy of Vista.

Re:

[parvenu74]

I thought about doing the same thing when I bought a new laptop a few months ago, but then I realized Vista is actually a good operating system and there's no sense in taking a step back to XP. The security warnings get annoying quick, but a few minutes of searching on the Web took care of that. With Aero disabled, Vista looks almost identical to XP. And I'm certain few people have reformatted to XP given that they just paid for a copy of Vista.

You're not developing software for Windows XP platforms and targeting shops that have already stated they won't even think about adopting Vista until SP2. Windows 2000 Pro still has over 2 1/2 years of support left. Windows XP Pro is good until 2012. Why the hell switch operating system right now just because there's something newer available -- especially when the newer O/S is so well documented to not work with lots of mission critical software?

Re:

[AutopsyReport]

I'm talking about regular consumers, not businesses. Your point is valid but out of context here.

Speaking of Dell....

[Tmack]

HP reported year-over-year PC sales growth of about 24 percent, or about twice worldwide PC sales growth. Whatever HP is doing right, it's more than just Vista ..

Its what HP is doing right... not being DELL.

I "bought" vista but I don't use it

[gvc]

I bought a new computer the other day. I wanted something that would "just work" so after a couple of hours of screwing around with Vista I installed Linux. Unfortunately (or fortunately) the resize on the Vista NTFS partition rendered Vista unable to boot.

No loss. I have my Linux system and it just works.

I would've probably stuck with XP had the computer come with it. Adapting to the gratuitous changes in Vista was way more effort than I wanted to invest. Aside from everything being moved around, Vista had security pop-ups every time I tried to do anything. I don't believe these pop-ups really add security as they give you no meaningful option other than to say "OK."

But they sure do get in the way. Especially if you want to do unattended or remote operations, as I do frequently. Now I understand that with a few more hours research I could've probably found workarounds, but I could not get VNC to work in server mode, or sshd to install as a service.

I did not *ask* for a new, incompatible, version of Windows. It was forced on me.

Ironically, the expedient choice has now changed -- at least for me -- from just accepting the pre-installed system to installing Linux.

Re:I "bought" vista but I don't use it

[SEMW]

Now I understand that with a few more hours research I could've probably found workarounds

Or you could just, you know, switch it off [imageshack.us]. 10 seconds at most.

I don't believe these pop-ups really add security as they give you no meaningful option other than to say "OK."

...No options other than OK -- apart from 'Cancel', you mean? I'm not sure what other choices there could be, either you elevate the process or you don't...?

Re:

[gvc]

There are several options I might have taken, all involving more work and delay, neither of which was an option in this particular circumstance. I used to buy greybox computers but now the package deals at box stores provide better value, fewer headaches, and are available for cash-and-carry. In order to avail myself of those particular boxes, I was forced to buy Vista.

That's what a monopoly is all about. Making alternatives sufficiently unattractive that they are no longer viable choices in a large numb

Numbers

[techsoldaten]

Damn, I hate Microsoft and wish they would go away and all, but 40 million is an impressive number for 4 months of sales. As long as they are not making it up, that is a respectable achievement regardless of how it compares with sales of other operating systems.

M

Often "Marketing" == Lies

[Futurepower(R)]

From the story: "Microsoft refusing to reveal the number of actual activated Vista licenses..."

It often seems to me that the entire job of some marketing people is to be deceitful. We can be SURE that if the number of actual activated Vista licenses was high, Microsoft would be talking about the number with everyone.

We can then suppose that the number of people actually using Vista is very low. Probably companies are buying new computers and installing their old corporate licenses of XP.

It was enormously expensive to our company to deal with the bugs in Windows XP until Service Pack 2 was released. (The cost of ownership of Windows XP SP2 is still many, many times higher than the cost of a license.) We have been burned by Microsoft many times, and are not about to get burned again with Windows Vista, so we are waiting to consider it until the second Vista service pack is released.

I'm not the only one who thinks that Microsoft is abusive, of course. Woody Leonhard of Windows Secrets [windowssecrets.com], in the most recent paid edition, called himself a: "card-carrying member of the 'Association of Windows Victims' ".

Two words:

[peacefinder]

Software Assurance .

How many software assurance accounts are active for Windows XP Home or Pro? If I'm not mistaken, every one of those would provide an upgrade license to some flavor of Vista. That in turn would, I'd think, be counted as a "Vista license sold."

Two things to consider

[nickull]

First, Mac has been steadily eating into the PC market for the last 3 years with notable gains in Laptop share. Tim Oreilly stated (for better or worse) "watch the Alpha-geeks". The Alpha geeks at RSA, Java One and other conferences are largely using Mac laptops. At a recent code challenge at Java One 2007, my observation during one heat was all but one of the contestants were on Macbook Pro's.

The second item is a statistic I read somewhere stating that in the next decade, about 50% or more of the people

How many were Free Upgrades (TM)?

[jsewell]

If you remember, between the time Vista was released to enterprises in the Fall of 06 and release to the public in early 07, most computer vendors offered "Free Upgrades to Vista" if you bought a PC with XP. I'd like to know how many of these "40 million licenses" were paid for and how many were free. Was MS charging a higher price for OEM XP if it came with a free upgrade to OEM Vista? Or were you getting two OS licenses for the price of one?

Re:

[sprior]

I think you're close to the mark, but just missed it. I'm sure every one of those upgrade certificates have been counted as a sale of Vista, but of all the machines sold with those certificates what percent do you think actually got the upgrade discs, and of those what percentage do you think actually broke the shrink wrap on the discs? Look around your office, what percentage of the folks you see would actually perform a system upgrade like that?

40 million licence sales?

[Ant P.]

You mean like how Sony sold 500000 PS3s a few months back?

Here is what my developers did.

[accad]

I got two brand new machines with Vista Business for 2 of my developers.
What was the first thing they did? They installed XP on the 2nd disk, called Microsoft and asked for an activation key based on the Vista license they have.
Yes you are allowed to "downgrade" to an older version of Windows if you have a legitimate copy and an authentic media of the old/other OS you want to install.
If you don't believe be read the EULA.
How many people did that? Bought a brand new machine with Vista, downgraded..etc?
Looks

Re:

[JustNiz]

They don't care if you actually use it or not. They've already got your money.

I have one

[nanosquid]

I got a Vista license with a new PC. I activated it, played at it, found it sucked, and installed Ubuntu over it. Another satisfied Microsoft customers.

Because Microsoft protected its customers' holiday

[ShakaUVM]

"Because Microsoft protected its customers' holiday investments"

They did? Actually, they did a good job pretending they'd give you a deal if you bought XP over the holiday.

I ended up just buying Vista for less than what they offered through the well-maybe-it'll-be-free holiday-bought-XP to Vista upgrade path.

Re:

[jedidiah]

Which is of course pure bull...

Any Vista sale is just a sale that would have been XP anyways. If anything, Microsoft is losing money on this proposition since these are units they would have pushed anyways. When you're at the top of the hill, the only way you can move is down.

Microsoft is just trying to avoid the obvious conclusion that they are stagnating while milking a saturated market.

Rumor at the time was...

[localroger]

Bill Gates named the company after his manhood.

Badda-Badda-BING.

Re:

[peragrin]

Actually Vista will be mostly profit for MSFT by the end of year.

40 million units sold of primarily the only two good versions business and Ultimate. So 40 million times $200 a piece, is 800,000 million dollars. MSFT is nearly at 1/5 the 5 billion they spent on creating Vista.

Yet Dell sells 14.4 billion dollars worth of physical hardware and makes a profit of just under $700 million.

Vista Sales for MSFT in four months is worth more than all of Dell's sales for a year.

Is Vista overpriced?

Re:

[molarmass192]

I'm with you ... I know 1 (that's one) individual who runs Vista. Everybody else in my circles and my company run either XP, OS X, or Linux. On top of that, I work in high tech where most of the early adopters are. The interesting thing about that 1 install, is that it's running in Parallels on OS X, not natively. So, I'd like to know WHERE those 40 millions licenses went considering that by all accounts 1 in 10 people should be running Vista but I'm hardly seeing about a 1 in 200 adoption rate. BTW, that p

Re:

[bmajik]

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".

I'm runnng Vista on 2 work machines and 2 of my home machines. It needs more ram than XP. It's prettier. My Hp 7150 doesn't work with Vista. Getting CCCP setup in Vista media center is easier than it was on XP Media Center.

My 4 year old work laptop sleeps/wakes/hibernates faster and much more reliably than it did under XP.

None of my Vista installs were OEM. The two home machines are stuff i built out of newegg orders.

I'm sure none of my Vista installs count in the