Company Claims New Chip Converts Heat To Electricity 346
Dster76 writes to tell us that the startup, Eneco, has invented a solid state energy conversion chip which they claim will be able to convert heat directly into electricity or reach temperatures of -200 C when given an electrical current. While such a device could revolutionize many aspects of computing I'll keep my skeptic hat on for the time being.
Energy conversion devices (Score:5, Insightful)
The notion of using heat is so different? Surely the technology is quite different I'm sure, but I would not be quite so quick to be skeptical.
Computing? (Score:4, Insightful)
Long term plan ... what were they thinking? (Score:5, Insightful)
Hopefully investors will see through the zany longterm plan and focus on the merits of the product, it really does appear to be valuable across a wide range of industries.
Where is the energy going? (Score:4, Insightful)
Peltier? (Score:5, Insightful)
Can a temperature differential cause the device to operate in reverse?
Carbon Neutral? Really?? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Energy conversion devices (Score:5, Insightful)
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
That said, just because someone is a skeptic doesn't mean we are impossible to convince. Just show us the tech - put up or shut up, that simple. I think that is a fair test.
Afterall, it's good enough for skeptic James Randi with paranormal claims, it's good enough for me.
Re:Energy conversion devices (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Second Law of Thermodynamics (Score:3, Insightful)
You are confusing heat with temperature. Temperature is the energy content. Heat is its flow. This device converts temperature differentials into electricity; with heat.
KFG
I'm sceptical (Score:2, Insightful)
This chip, if it works = free energy for everyone, everywhere, and they work about battery life for laptops... wtf?
Re:Amd vs Intel (Score:5, Insightful)
What would make a difference if such a device could work for all wavelengths of radiation converting all nearby sources of light, radio, static RF, and heat into usable power. Not just a "solar cell" but a radiation rectifier. Even at 20% efficiency there would be plenty of energy to harness if the spectrum was wide enough.
Re:Yes but... (Score:3, Insightful)
Already hapening..
http://www.haimei.com/mobile_phone_accessory/manu
http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/review/shakelight_ni
http://www.jakeludington.com/gadget_envy/20050707
http://www.ambientweather.com/emra.html [ambientweather.com]
Aha!!! here's the killer application (Score:3, Insightful)
"The result is a solid state energy conversion chip that can operate at temperatures of up to 600 degrees celcius and deliver absolute efficiencies in terms of how much heat energy is converted to electricity of between 20 and 30 percent."
Now 20 to 30% conversion of a stored chemical fuel to electricity RIGHT ON A MICRO CHIP without any mechinaical engine is great. Good energy density even if you are giving up 80% of the energy. The only trick is figuring out how to chill the backside. But if you are only looking for small amounts of power maybe ambient chilling or convection is not so bad. Maybe you could even burn a little more chemical enerfy to power a turbine to cool it off.
Anyhow the uses for this are not microchips but very hot systems. And that's what makes it different from conventional peltier coolers: it's compact, monlithic, and runs so hot it can get good efficiency.
Re:Energy conversion devices (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Thermocouple (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Energy conversion devices (Score:5, Insightful)
You can get cooling down to cryogenic temperatures just by building a pyramid of peltier cells (with progressively fewer couples in each layer), all interconnected electrically. This was done 'way back when they were first invented.
This device is a more efficient vacuum-tube version, using nanostructure field-emission needles for the cathodes and built in a microscopic form-factor using integrated-circuit manufacturing techniques. It does the same thing, but using electrons in vacuum. (The heat kicks them off the emitter with a momentum high enough for them to pass through a field to a more-negative collector plate.) A vacuum is a GREAT insulator, so the efficiency is much better. (Or pump heat by applying a voltage to encourrage the electrons to jump off the needles at thermal vibration peaks, cooling them, and smack into the collectors, heating them.)
Also: Since it is apparently built of metals and ceramics rather than semiconductors you can run it very hot - like at the focus of a solar concentrator. That can beat photovoltaics by a bunch.
I've seen reports of this device before. I presume this one means either they need more funding or they've just solved a manufacturing problem, bringing them a step closer to commercial rollout.
Re:Energy conversion devices (Score:3, Insightful)
They would all restrict the flow of heat from the CPU to the heatsink, rendering it ineffective.
That's why you'd need a different design. I'm not a thermal engineer, and I presume you aren't either. But it's not really that unbelieveable that a cooling design could be implemented that would be able to do both at the same time.
Re:Energy conversion devices (Score:3, Insightful)
You'll still need a heat sink because the temperature on the other side of the device (the one not cooling the CPU) will increase more than the amount the cool side decreases (because both the CPU and the electricity applied to the device contribute to the total energy of the system). In other words, let the temperature of your CPU when cooled by a heat sink be t0. If you use this device to cool the CPU to t0 - x degrees, then the temperature on the other side (cooled by the same heat sink that was attached to the CPU before) will be t0 + x + y degrees, where y represents the less-than-100% efficiency of the device itself.
However, there is a reason to do this: you can get the CPU cooler than it's possible to do with a heat sink alone. In particular, it can get the CPU to run cooler than ambient temperature (which a heat sink can only approach asymptotically). Extreme overclockers use this technique sometimes, but the downside is that you have to start worrying about condensation killing your electronics.
Re:It can and does work. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Energy conversion devices (Score:3, Insightful)
You can think of it like a hydroelectric dam (or water wheel) if you like. Water flows, then you stick something in the way -- in order for the paddle wheel or turbine to generate electricity it must oppose the flow of the water -- forcing it to do work.