RIAA Defendant Says Kazaa Settlement Bars Case

NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "The defendant in Arista v. Greubel has filed an answering statement. The statement says that the RIAA's case against him, since it's based upon his use of Kazaa, is barred by the RIAA's receipt of $115 million from Kazaa. Mr. Greubel also challenged the constitutionality of the RIAA's $750-per-song damages theory, saying damages should be limited to $2.80 per song. See the previous Slashdot discussion of that issue and Judge Trager's decision in UMG v. Lindor."

Fascinating Idea, But...

[smallferret]

Could someone who actually IS a lawyer respond about the validity of this defense? I read it and say "yeah, that makes sense," but that doesn't mean anything because I don't know all of the ins and outs of litigation.

Re:Yeah...

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no way for a person to win against the machine.

Especially with that attitude...

One point: computer geeks and programmers need to get used to the "feces flinging" technique of the lawyers. Write a program with multiple logically inconsistent statements and it will collapse in a screaming heap. Doing that is anathema to most programmers. But when mounting a legal defence (or attack), you're allowed make logically incompatible statements. You just keep flinging feces until something sticks. The fact you're arguing the case should be dismisseddoesn't stop you arguing that the damages awarded should be reduced 100x - EVEN THOUGH it's nonsense to talk of damages because you're arguing the case should be dismissed. Many computer geeks just don't get that. You're not programming a consistent logical system, you're feces-flinging. Remember that, and you can start to win much more often against the lawyer/CxO scum.

Re:Piracy Tax?

[Anonymous Coward]

in theory, yes ... in practice, no

administrative costs are excessive
industry collects revenues
system lacks proper accountability and transparency

imho, it's like many other good ideas that have been corrupted by greed

its one redeeming feature, there is less lawyer fodder

Re:Yeah...

[Rydia]

I like how providing people with multiple arguments about why you are right and allowing them to choose which ones they believe have merit makes someone scum.

Re:Has the RIAA won any court cases

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you ever read 1984? How on earth is this story anything like 1984?

Re:Piracy Tax?

[FreakerSFX]

You are wrong - that "tax" does not protect you from music companies. You should check into it before you get sued. They have been much less litigious in Canada but the current government is passing (has passed?) legislation to make it open season on file sharers.

Re:Has the RIAA won any court cases

[Astro Dr Dave]

No, that's actually the number Congress provided in the statute.

So? It may be the law, but that doesn't make it right. Indeed, the due process defense is interesting, and probably is a better solution to the RIAA lawsuits. In general, a defense based on Kazaa's payment to the recording industry is not a good idea IMO. After all, a paid-off bully has incentive to extort more money from you.

Re:Yeah...

[miyako]

yeah, it's sort of like how you see something in code every once in a while like:

int x=5;
if(x==5)
{
doSomething();
}
else
{
doSomethingElse(); //never should happen
}

It's essentially saying, "the fact is that X, but if all logic fails we'll recover as well as possible instead of just freaking out and dying".

Re:Has the RIAA won any court cases

[terrymr]

Moreover though, saying they should prove actual value lost is a nonsense and precisely that reason why a figure was legislated in the first place. You don't know how many people downloaded the song. You don't know how many of those people passed it on to others. You do know that the person put the music up for download onto a network where it was effectively available, without control, to millions of anonymous strangers.

Inability to prove your claim should not be grounds to relieve you of that burden.

Re:Has the RIAA won any court cases

[pdovy]

"On the other hand, Lindor cites to case law and to law review articles suggesting that, in a proper case, a court may extend its current due process jurisprudence prohibiting grossly excessive punitive jury awards to prohibit the award of statutory damages mandated under the Copyright Act if they are grossly in excess of the actual damages suffered" (from the linked article, statement by Judge Trager)

This to me implies that they don't neccesarily have to stick to the minimum, if they can show that the minimum is ridiculous.

Also - I think it isn't quite fair to say that if you uploaded 1 song to 50 people, and those 50 people upload it to 50 people, that you are responsible for all of those damages. Who is to say that they don't go after the 50 people you uploaded it to, and the 50 people they uploaded it to? If they did in fact, then they would be getting damages way in excess of the money they actually lost. Realistically, I think the defendant should only be responsible for damages *directly* caused by them - that is, their initial downloading of the song and their uploading it to others, if those others go onto share it yet again, they should pay the price, not the original seeder.

I've said it once...

[Anonymous Coward]

...and I'll say it again.

If people would STOP pirating music, the MPAA, RIAA, etc, would go away. Sheesh.

Re:No CD tax in the US

[Deagol]

The point is that these agencies are pro actively taking money from all of those who purchase media with the aforementioned media "tax" under the assumption that people are infringing copyright in some way with the media. If they have the omniscience to know that everyone is making unauthorized copies (and dinging us all for it when we buy media), they should suck it up and let everyone enjoy what they've already paid for, as they do in more enlightened countries like (I believe) Canada, and not be allowed to pursue downloaders/seeders. If they can't stomach loosing their settle-out-of-court-extortion income stream, they should lose any tariffs on media.

I guess my broader suggestion is that someone needs to challenge either the tariffs or the lawsuits, as the RIAA/MPAA shouldn't be able to have their cake and eat it, too.

Re:Piracy Tax?

[GeorgeS069]

why not have the CPCC pay a tariff towards each legally purchased CD?
Kind of like a reverse tax.
They collect the money and then subsidize the CD sales.
That would make sure that the truly more popular artists receive the money according to sales and not the radio stations play lists.
just an idea but,it might work.

Re:Has the RIAA won any court cases

[aussie_a]

As a fine for putting someone else's music up for download by potentially millions of anonymous strangers, it's not exactly out of line.

The RIAA is not a government nor a government agency. The RIAA cannot collect fines from individuals. Sorry, but the language we use is very important or else we'll start thinking things unconsciously. That's why anti-abortion people call themselves pro-lifers.

Re:Has the RIAA won any court cases

[rucs_hack]

loads of people refer to 1984 without actually reading it, which is interesting. It's as if the book has been boiled down into a single idea that can be easily applied to multiple situations.

It's wrong of course, 1984 is very complex, too complex for a single idea to be distilled from its pages. I love the book myself.

I more often compare the RIAA/MPAA/DMCA situation to Plato's Republic, which predates 1984 somewhat.