Game Industry Folks Siding With the Wii 432
Gamasutra's semi-regular feature taking the pulse of folks in the game industry turns its attention this week to the PS3 and Wii launches. From the comments submitted to the site, it seems that many industry vets are generally more excited about the Wii than with Sony's offering. From the article: "'Definitely a Wii (already pwii-ordered). The price point of the PS3 and the lack of enticing launch titles makes me as interested in a PS3 as I am interested in getting a root canal.' — Ryan Conlon, Gearbox Software. 'I am buying a Wii because Sony is too arrogant, from their dev tools to the price point.' — Ed O'Tey, Electronic Arts. 'Wii — pre-ordered. I applaud the attempt to expand and explore game interaction with the Wii. I will not be purchasing a PS3.' — Jim Perkins, EA Canada"
Yes (Score:5, Insightful)
That THAT is why I want a wii (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, when people that are involved in making the games express prefference on the Wii, I sorta feel compeled to think that the Wii will have more games (and more importantly, a diverse selection).
the anounced titles for the next year (Wii vs PS3) has be interested in 3 games coming out on the PS3, and about 10 games on the Wii.
Based on this article..... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Yes (Score:5, Insightful)
With the Wii, though, Nintendo is pretty much forcing developers to innovate at least a little, in order to properly use the controller. If I want a graphics update, I'll get a new card for my PC. I go to a council for a distinctly different experience then a PC, usually based on the controller, since that is the real difference. And now, the Wii makes the controller even *more* different then the PC, which to me is an even greater reason to play. That and it doesn't cost *that* much money.
Re:Wii Campers? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Wii Campers? (Score:5, Insightful)
Jab at MS: I tried to pre-order but every store I went to said that after the Xbox360 scandal they've ditched pre-orders almost all together.
It is all Relative (Score:5, Insightful)
Nintendo is making the right move at the right time. Assuming they decide to come out with a wiii (i.e. next generation of console) faster than the others do, they will then be able to price is similar to this model and maintain their consumers. Honestly, $700 starter cost for a console is probably out of reach for around 80% of the average gamers. This is a market where you are going to make more money in the middle than at the leading edge.
Re:Wii Campers? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, I pretty much feel the same way as you (and I think most people do aswell)
The fact is that with how many units Nintendo is producing, and how quickly they should be able to restock, there is little chance of a long term shortage; what this leads to is that there is little opportunity for profit so less scalpers are interested in the system. With scalpers not camping out for days (or weeks) to get a system it is more likely that you will be able to get one on launch day without camping out yourself.
Ultimately this means that the Wii will have a (successful) launch that is very orderly; there aren't going to be riots or muggings, all that is going to happen is most people who want a Wii on launch day are going to get one with (potentially) some having to wait a week or two. This means that there is little that is news worthy so it gets less press.
I have wondered for a while what would happen if the press put a different slant on the stories that they release if you would see companies react differently; if the PS3 launch was reported as "Sony was incompetent and released far too few systems which caused massive riots at Best-Buy" rather than "The PS3 is the hot item to have, and its launch caused riots" would Sony try to ensure that the PS4 launch was orderly? If the Wii launch went well and news agencies reported it as "Nintendo had a successful system launch this weekend selling 950,000 systems; that is over twice as many systems as the XBox 360 or PS3 were able to sell in their opening days" would there be a greater focus on producing enough units to meet demand?
It seems to me that because news agencies focus on negative things that a lot of companies will produce negative things (shortages) in order to get coverage on the news; I'm not saying that Sony went out of their way to produce too few systems, just that if they only got news coverage for a good launch they would ensure that production was on schedule.
Re:Controller... (Score:3, Insightful)
I am a nintendo fanboy, I am gettign a Wii, I am stoked about the controlers. However, there is still that nagging doubt that if they don't pull it off perfectly, where you don't have to think about the controller more then the game, then there will be problems.
Some of my reservations were taken away by the fact that Nintendo announced that not all games will use the WiiMote (Smash Bros will use a clasic controller or a NGC controller). So they are not forcing developers to use it when a standard controller works better.
I also got to play around with a Wii last week (nintendo world store), and the controller DOES seem to work from a functional standpoint. It was responsive, it is not that heavy (It is a lighter then a standard controller, however you are holding it in 1 hand generaly), and it does seem to be acurate.
So, only time will tell, and I still am slightly woried, but I think it will prevail.
Re:Reminds Me Of A Conversation... (Score:4, Insightful)
An AC pretending to be a vidogame developer
So Mr Game Developer why do you need a 4 dimentional matrix to store transformations in a 3 dimentional game? What size of matrix do you need for a 2 dimentional game?
The vast,vast,vast majority of of console developers are buying PS3s. Especially with the whole Linux development stuff to go with the amazingly powerful hardware
Not to be blunt, why would any developer spend $600 to have a linux system whey you can do (pretty much) exactly the same thing with a $200 PC?
Most of us make very good money and have very good home media equipment and are already starting to pickup BluRay movies.
100% proof that you are not a game developer
I used to be one, now make about three times as much money as a independant contracting web developer; game developers are paid poorly, and have little time to watch movies because they are worked to death
Re:Yes (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, but not as much as you may think.
-I love Belgium beers. The U.S. buys Budweiser.
-I loved Firefly. The world loves Desperate Houswives.
-I have art over my mantlepiece. The suberbanites put a large mirror there.
-I love that little place down the street. The U.S. loves Applebees.
It really doesn't matter what you think of the Wii. The lines waiting for teh PS3 this morning were completely full. The prices on eBay are already legendary. You won't see that with Sunday's launch of the Wii.
I wouldn't make the mistake of thinking that origionality or quality actually "count" in the grand scheme of things. But that doesn't mean that you can't enjoy your Wii anyway.
(I would caution those who champion the Wii to take a closer look at what they're doing. They're saying it's great before they've even seen a unit in person. Some guy in another thread insinuated that PS3 purchasers were acting like sheep. Proclaining the Wii as "superior" without haveing every played it is absolutely no better)
TW
Re:Reminds Me Of A Conversation... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not a war, the Wii is not a side (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Well maybe it is. (Score:5, Insightful)
1. The programing model is totally different from anything you have ever done.
2. Textures. It takes artists more time to do a more detailed texture. So what if it is only 5 times bigger? Yes it takes more work. Does it take five times? Maybe not. Will it take at least twice as much time? Probably so.
3. Blue ray! How many plants can press blue ray disks? What about the media costs?
The 360s programing model is a little different but not nearly as revolutionary as the Cell.
The Cell has a huge amount of potential but getting to that is not going to trivial.
The 360 will have the cost of the HD content and a little bit of cost with a slightly different programing model. The big bonus is that a port to of from the PC will be pretty easy.
The PS3 is a lot more complex and probably doesn't have as good of development environment as the 360.
Devs like Wii because it's better for them. (Score:4, Insightful)
This doesn't mean ordinary GAMERS should necessarily prefer Wii. A lot of gamers only go for the AAA titles that can afford to have great graphics AND excellent gameplay, plot, etc. For them, it comes down to a much more difficult personal preference between new controller schemes and advanced graphics.
Oh yeah, and a few hundred bucks and a six-day line outside a Gamestop in a gloomy strip mall.
Re:Wii vs PS3 (Score:3, Insightful)
Assuming the Wii does end up appealing to the general public, it will end up in the #1 spot simply because that's 95% of the market.
real problem with the PS3 (Score:2, Insightful)
Then ship a million of them in December at the regular price. Why is Sony taking a loss on this first shipment when they don't have to? All they're doing is giving away the margin that resellers are making on eBay.
Re:Well maybe it is. (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Wii vs PS3 (Score:5, Insightful)
Also the wiimote makes it difficult for hardcore games too because reaction time and angle are important in using it. It will vary on what you are playing. WIth the ps2 and gc I feel the point of most games is to hit the right combinations of buttons at a very fast speed. With this I can focus on using my arm and focusing on winning and not memorizing arkane buttons at the fastest speed possible like in mortal Kombat. Yes, I know that game is 10 years old but I began to hate console games after playing as it became the new thing with console makers overloading their controllers with bottons. It was dumb and pointless.
Games like NFL sports title and Mario Kart will rock on this!
Re:Well maybe it is. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Yes (Score:2, Insightful)
That demonstrates a difference in supply, not demand. Demand for the PS3 can't really be measured at this point, aside from the vague statement that it is "bigger than the supply." Since the supply of the Wii will be much larger -- by some reports a full order of magnitude larger -- the demand would have to be absurdly high to result in huge lines and skyrocketing eBay prices.
To make a similarly meaningless statement that skews the other way: On Monday morning, it is extremely likely that more people in North America will own a Wii than will own a PS3. This is just as accurate as your claim, but it similarly fails to convey any useful information for comparing Wii and PS3 popularity.
Not that I'm saying the Wii will be more popular than the PS3. I'm just saying we have nothing to base a comparison on at this point, and nobody will until supply for both consoles is to the point where you'd expect a typical North American video game store to have at least one of each in stock at any given time.
Give it time (Score:2, Insightful)
The PS3 has had a terrible launch and I think it's pretty obvious the project was rushed. There's little there that would attract a casual gamer to the PS3. The people buying right now are scalpers, hard-core gamers, and the moms and dads who buy from the scalpers because junior insists on having the latest and greatest gadget regardless of it's merits.
However, in a six months to a year we'll see some amazing games come out for the platform that make use of Cell's full potential. That is when the PS3 will make it's real run. Stock supplies will be up, the price of the console will be down, and a lot more people will have HD-capable televisions that will benefit from the PS3's Blu-ray drive and HD output. There will probably be a better general understanding of HD as well, with many more HD-DVD/Blu-ray drives on the market, perhaps convincing people that PS3 price tag is worth it after all (when they see the cost of a standalone player).
Of course these "industry insiders" say they're going the way of the Wii at launch, but I'll bet anything they all have a PS3 within a year.
Im not impressed by anything that's out yet. (Score:0, Insightful)
Re:real problem with the PS3 (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Well maybe it is. (Score:5, Insightful)
It is for this reason many shows need to hire additional makeup artists and even completely redo sets when HD came around. So yes, a rough looking wall in Standard may just be a photoshop "cloud effect" but in HD, you need the cloud effect, the noise added, some scratches here and there(but well distributed as to not tile funny), etc... Equally, you have to streamline how many of those superlarge textures get fed into VRAM at one time, etc...
It is a huge huge shift from Standard to HD.
Also, devkit costs: The 360's dev costs aren't bad for a console. The Wii is fantastic for a console(2000$ to get started with hardware and all, however I omit manpower in that figure), while the PS3's costs are exorbitant. I remember reading something from Gamasutra a while back about how it would cost you 12 mil just to get STARTED on a competitive PS3 game all things considered. As a reference, Final Fantasy 7 cost 14 mil back in the day and that was considered a supermassive budget.
Add to that that any company with a GC devkit can get started now with just a few addons and you're set.
Re:A Question (Score:3, Insightful)
Nintendo just doesn't release hardware that isn't ready for release.
Re:A Question (Score:3, Insightful)
Because there's little history of problems with Nintendo consoles.
Frankly, there's little history of serious problems period. Prior to the last generation, game consoles were still expected to be like every other home electronic appliance: You bought it, you brought it home, and it worked. Games, too. They were expected to just work. The stability of the hardware/software in consoles was always a major argument in their favor over PCs.
So the fact that so many people had to replace their PS2s within a year, and Xbox 360 owners were experiencing problems, is a new thing. Now I partly blame it on companies like MS who are used to a "release-then-patch" philosophy. Certainly when the consoles got online capabilities that was the first thing I expected to happen, and it was. Sony, I don't know what their deal is, they've been troubled lately. Nintendo, they still seem to very much want to give people the old-school console experience of it "just working". I think they would be embarassed to have to release patches to fix major launch problems.
But we'll see what actually happens.
Re:It's not a war, the Wii is not a side (Score:3, Insightful)
This is not merely about your selection of what makes you happy, and here's why:
I know I'm probably missing some points, but I think I've at least given a partial rebuttal. Purchasing is not merely about filling a whim, we are collectively directing the industries. That should be kept in mind.
- John
Re:real problem with the PS3 (Score:2, Insightful)
With consumer electronics, the marketing is everything. If you present it correctly, the customers will buy into any pricing scheme you want. Everyone knows the price will drop over time anyway, just as it did with the PS2.
Re:Well maybe it is. (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm assuming here that you mean that as an insult. If not, move on to my next paragraphs. If so, it's a pretty weak one. I don't know what one would describe as a kiddie game, but I hope you don't define it as silly graphics and no blood. Otherwise Chess, Poker, Go, Tetris, Pac-Man, etc., etc., etc., would all be considered kiddie by you even though they are some of the most popular games ever. Not to mention that Resident Evil and Eternal Darkness aren't what I would call suitable for kiddies. But then you probably think Wind Waker is kiddie because it has cartoony graphics, rather than base it on its gameplay. If a game is fun (I assume that you think kiddie games are not fun) for you for any other reason than gameplay, then you're not much of a reliable source for game information.
They replaced a simple controller with one that is much more complex and will probably be more intimidating to "casual" gamers than the classic "D Pad", and say that they hope to outsell the competition by appealing to lots of "non-gamers."
Have you ever tried to get someone who is not a gamer to play with a D Pad controller? It sucks. If you are not used to D-Pads they are hardly what I would call intuitive. Tell someone to play tennis with a D-Pad and then tell them they can play Tennis with the Wii-mote by making the same movements as if they were playing it in real life and see which one they would rather use. Tell someone to point your onscreen weapon at the enemy and fire with the D-Pad and then tell them to do the same thing with the Wii-mote, only their actions onscreen will mimic the real life actions they take with the Wii-mote and see which one they would rather use. I don't know how you could NOT see that the Wii-mote is much more intuitive.
similar technologies have been attempted in video arcades for years, and "gimmick" controllers usually don't sustain all that much interest
But a console where the "gimmick" was in every box has never been tried before. Now everyone who writes a game for the console knows that the player has at least one Wii-mote so every game developer can develop for it.
Re:Yes (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Yes (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:It's not a war, the Wii is not a side (Score:2, Insightful)
As for this article being pure hype and mere noise generation... It appears to be coming from a third party (Gamasutra), with (hopefully) little ties to Nintendo (although I do realize advertising revenues may be tied with this). This third party has went around to the actual game manufacturers (EA, etc.)who will be producing games for all three systems, and thus have no major affiliations. It would seem to me that an article produced with little ties to either side, is most likely not purely a noise generating article. Although I wouldn't argue that some of them most probably are.
I believe that in most news there are at least some relevant facts to be had... You just have to be wary what you buy (pun intending, thank you).
- John
Re:College Student (Score:3, Insightful)
The only people on campus you'll see with those $600 consoles like the PS3 are the kids who have parents who also bought their car/rent/textbooks/food/beer/tuition and don't have to ever worry about working and going to school at the same time.
It's the "other" November election... (Score:3, Insightful)
People who think that the Wii and the PS3 are aimed at wildly different markets should get their heads checked. The whole "we're not competative" thing was started by Nintendo to make themselves look like the "nice guys", but they're competing head to head with the PS3 in the same demographics. Both are aiming at hardcore gamers (no matter what anyone says about the Wiimotes being "kiddy", most of their fans are long time, dyed-in-the-wool classic gamers), with the Wii simply being more successful at being able to reach more casual gamers. But let's not fool ourselves, people who have never played games before are just as unlikely to buy a Wii as a PS3. They're like sports teams, everyone has their favorite, and are gunning for it to whoop the other... regardless of their age, gender, sexual orientation, or otherwise. The PS3 is going to be more attractive to younger gamers due to Sony's meathead, testosterone-laced design philosophy, where-as the Wii is going to be more favorable to the 23+ crowd who grew up with classic games. But these differences are subtle, and mostly they're gunning toward the exact same people.
It's the "other" November election: Sony vs. Nintendo, Republican vs. Democrat. Who's philosophy will dominate the game industry? Who's philosophy will dominate the government? I've taken sides, have you?
Re:It's not a war, the Wii is not a side (Score:5, Insightful)
Because the console that is "the winner" will always be the one for which the most game titles will be released, therefore improving the odds that it will be the one for which the best game titles will be released.
Re:It's not a war, the Wii is not a side (Score:4, Insightful)
One thing I'll mention: when I bought my DS, some people said to me "but the PSP is so much more powerful", and I could have afforded the PSP. But the DS gave me what I wanted. However, I can see how some people would probably have caved in under the pressure from friends pointing out that they didn't have the "most powerful". That's a bit sad. Maybe that's what this is really about, people wanting bragging rights to having the "best" console instead of considering "what is the best console for me?". (Or conversely, "who is this console best suited for?")
Re:Yes (Score:1, Insightful)
And which of those features required all new, more powerful hardware?