Making the Sounds of Vista

Bengt writes "The sounds of Vista took 18 months to get right for Microsoft. Artist Robert Fripp recorded hours of sound, and assisted Steven Ball in choosing between several different options. A clapping rhythm was rejected for 'sounding too human', and a techno beat was removed from considering because it was just the opposite." From the article: "If it seems like overkill to go to all that trouble for a few seconds of sound, consider this: Microsoft estimates that the clips such as the e-mail alert will be played trillions of times in years to come. That's a lot of opportunity to annoy, offend -- or, if the job is done right -- please or appease computer users the world over. One major concern was that the startup sound not grow grating after a time. You want a sound that people will love the first time they hear it, but it's a paradox to also say, 'Oh and by the way, we need people to love it the tenth, or the hundredth, or the thousandth time they hear it,' Ball said."

Yep, work on that startup sound

[toby]

The poor saps are gonna be hearing that a lot... shortly after The BSOD Sound and the We Think You're a Damned Pirate sound.

Re:Yep, work on that startup sound

[shmlco]

Actually, it's nice to know that MS is paying attention to the details.

Now, whether or not they've paid attention to the right details is another question entirely... and one which will be answered shortly.

Re:Yep, work on that startup sound

[Opportunist]

Actually, it's nice to know that MS is paying attention to the details.

That's a bit like a car manufacturer worrying about the color of the seats while the breaks are still leaking.

Re:Yep, work on that startup sound

[man_of_mr_e]

Yes, I'm sure the car manufacturer would put all their fabric designers on the brake problem. That's a good use of their time.

Car analogies

[Lonewolf666]

The car manufacturer could hire competent mechanical engineers and cut costs in the fabric design department instead. Which might lead to a drab but technically superior car. I think that kind of decision tells a lot about a company and its priorities. Back to computers:
In the OS world, you can have
-a non-userfriendly (at least not beginner-friendly) but technically superb system. Think of classic UNIX as an example.
-or as the other extreme, a pretty, newbie-friendly but unreliable system, like Windows 9x.

O

Re:Car analogies

[man_of_mr_e]

The car manufacturer could hire competent mechanical engineers and cut costs in the fabric design department instead.

Do you really think it's a lack of money to pay engineers that prevents a company like GM or Microsoft from creating bug-free products? That's amazingly clueless.

Don't you think that Microsoft wouldn't pay whatever it took to hire people to make Windows the best product they could? Yes, they would. The problem is not money. The problem is logistics and resources. There are a finite number of skilled developers, especially those with skills in a particular area. There are also a finite number of people that can work on the same project without stepping on each others toes.

You can't just throw more bodies at the problem. That just makes matters worse. So, no. It's highly unlikely that cutting the budget for fabric design would do anything to improve the engineering staff.

More bodies?

[camperdave]

You can't just throw more bodies at the problem. That just makes matters worse.

Isn't it one of the tenets of Open Source, that with enough eyes on the code, bugs are shallow? Why would that work for Linux and other Open Source projects, and not for Microsoft?

Re:

[man_of_mr_e]

You're talking a totally different model there. Even so, you're not throwing bodies at the problem, bodies voluntarily go looking at the problem, then if they find something, present it to the benevolent dictator to cherry pick patches. There's no real project management involved (except for the core project developers). Many of the changes just fall in their lap when someone submits them, without anyone knowing the work was even being done.

Most corporate development can't work that way.

Re:

[kgbspy]

RMS, which I doubt touch code due to his missionary position

Erm... not an image I needed right before dinner...

Re:

[Schraegstrichpunkt]

In the OS world, you can have
-a non-userfriendly (at least not beginner-friendly) but technically superb system. Think of classic UNIX as an example.
-or as the other extreme, a pretty, newbie-friendly but unreliable system, like Windows 9x.

That's a false dichotomy, and there are several examples that prove otherwise. (Amiga, and apparently Plan9 and BeOS.)

Microsoft simply doesn't want to spend the money required to make a quality OS. Either that, or they can't retain the necessary talent due to the

Re:Car analogies

[Teun]

then the jap's saved money by copying our engineering

Sorry to bust your bubble but the Jap's did something entirely different,
they looked at the British designs and execution thereof and knew what not to do.

Re:Car analogies

[kimvette]

Lotus: cars that shake their suspensions apart in the early '80s. Absolutely horrid QC for a while.
Jaguar: Lucas Electric components leading to the "Off-dim-flicker" jokes even in Jaguar clubs and mailing lists.

What makes you think Japanese copied your engineering? Unlike British and American cars in the '80s when the Japanese began to dominate the auto market, Japanese cars actually WORKED. They didn't get where they did by copying your country or by copying America, but listening to engineering and manufacturing consultants whom no domestic manufacturers would listen to because improving processes is "too costly."

Re:OS X & Linux don't have "startup sounds"

[bcat24]

Umm, my fresh Ubuntu Edgy install plays a sound when I login to Gnome. I'm sure other distros have startup sounds too.

Re:OS X & Linux don't have "startup sounds"

[Richard_at_work]

So its OK for the Mac trumpet to sound, because its not the OS? Nevermind that it might as well be because you cant turn it off, its mandated by the same people who produce OSX, and its as annoying as anything an OS can produce? Stop putting artificial restrictions on arguements.

well actually

[toby]

I neither said it was "not OK" for Vista to have a startup sound, nor that it was "OK" for OS X not to have one, nor that it was "OK" for the hardware to BONG!

I simply pointed out that the sound you hear, ain't the O/S. (To forestall spurious comment. Oh well.)

Re:OS X & Linux don't have "startup sounds"

[Joe The Dragon]

It is in the roms that used to have part of the os in them. There is also the crash sound that you hear if the system does not pass the book up checks.

Wrong

[Agram]

Not only does Linux have a number of start-up themes, but also, judging from the number of downloads, there is a genuine community interest in them as well. For instance, see:

http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=1 2584 [kde-look.org]

There are more here:

http://www.kde-look.org/index.php?xcontentmode=25 [kde-look.org]
(granted, some of them are bland copies of XP/OSX themes, but there are also some that are very much worth downloading)

Re:

[toby]

Mine doesn't.

Re:OS X & Linux don't have "startup sounds"

[drsmithy]

Yes, they do. Certainly every distro I've ever used that includes GNOME or KDE has some sort of startup sound when they login.

(That sound you hear when you turn on your Mac is NOT the operating system starting.)

Doesn't matter. As far as Apple marketing (which is why these sorts of soundbits exist) is concerned, Mac == OS X.

Re:

[kabz]

Yeah, it sounds really thin and jarring and annoyingly fussy. The current Mac bootup sound is just unbelievably better. You can go here [mactracker.ca] to hear all the different Mac chimes over the years. Most are pretty good, including the original Mac.

What was that?

[bcat24]

I keep my speakers muted, you insensitive clods!

Re:What was that?

[Salvance]

Don't tell Microsoft that, you might convince them to create visual effects to match each of their startup sounds!

NPR ran a story on the sounds yesterday.

[gardyloo]

Go to it, boys and girls! http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?story Id=6466901 [npr.org]

Clarification: just the startup sound

[gardyloo]

See subject.

I don't like it :(

[suv4x4]

Not that it's terrible, but while the background strings are ok, those four tones are like icepicks poking my ears.

It physically hurts to hear that over and over :P Good thing they decided to make it optional.

Ball said

[rolfwind]

"Oh and by the way, we need people to love it the tenth, or the hundredth, or the thousandth time they hear it."

I'll settle for "just not annoy me." If I'm supposed to love it, that sounds like too much distraction already.

Re:Ball said

[Meagermanx]

I think I love some sounds just because of what they imply. Like one of Pavlov's dogs, I get a little happier when I hear the "Your Friend Just Logged Into IM!" sound.

Re:

[Firehed]

Hmm... the "I just had to reboot Windows again" sound probably won't be the highlight of my day.

Though, in fairness, the time I've spent in the Vista beta so far has been pretty good, and most of the effects are subtle enough to not be distracting but still visible enough for me to think "that was a nice little touch" the first couple times. Thankfully, Aero actually looks decent unlike the stock PlaySchool XP theme - certainly more professional. Unfortunately, the sound drivers for the laptop where I've

Most obnoxious startup sound

[AndrewR81]

Just don't make it like this guy's startup sound: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Mt1bgsvsWms [youtube.com]

Re:

[onx]

That should be the default startup sound on all macs.

Too human

[texaport]

You've got mail!

AOL's three little beloved words ranks right up there with "I love you" ...
That guy's gotta be wishing he had a better agent negotiating royalties.

Startup-sound

[cockroach2]

I would recommend reducing the volume by a tiny little fraction each startup, so the more annoyed people get with it, the lower at least the volume will be...

Crunch crunch crunch

[Channard]

And just when they're lulled into a false sense of security, that's when you replace the effects with 'Wally's 101 annoying cubicle sounds'and crank the volume right back up again.

Let's Ask Clippy

[Nova Express]

I see you're trying to perform Frippitronics! Would you like to:

• Feed guitar notes into delay, reverb and replay tape-loop system?
• Hire Brian Eno to help you?
• Reform King Crimson yet again?
• Sell out to Microsoft?

Personally, I'm going to wait until the remixed, remasterd versions of the Vista sounds come out with additional material in a special boxed set available only from Discipline Global Mobile...

Re:Let's Ask Clippy

[value_added]

I see you're trying to perform Frippitronics! Would you like to:

Well, you've been modded up, so someone out there gets the joke.

For everyone else, here's some Who The Heck is Robert Fripp [wikipedia.org] information.

Re:

[gEvil (beta)]

I wonder how long it will be before someone combines the Vista startup sound with the Windows 95 startup sound to give us the Windows 72 sound...

Pah...

[Chaffar]

If they're so anal about getting the sound "just right", why wouldn't the last step of the install process just ask you to pick a sound scheme out of a set of 10 or so different styles.

Hell they could even be the SAME notes, but with different instruments to suit the user's taste.

Re:

[PhunkySchtuff]

Why not let you pick - here's why.
Go to the mall, or jump on public transport. Sit back, relax and wait for someone's mobile to ring.
Now, out of the almost infinite range of ringtones that are available, how many people can actually exercise enough taste to pick a ringtone that's not offensive the first time round, let alone once you've heard it 50 times... 500 times... If I hear that fucking crazy frog or mosquito one more time, I'm going to dunk that person's mobile in a bucket of water.

Huh?

[Colin Smith]

'Oh and by the way, we need people to love it the tenth, or the hundredth, or the thousandth time they hear it,' Ball said."

Or... you let them change it?

 

I don't have sounds

[joe 155]

I just don't have any sounds on, I have a bleep sound when I get a new email, other than that I think a system should be seen and not heard

Re:

[Durrok]

My setup was the same until I recently added the last 15 seconds or so of the BSG theme song as the startup sound at work. Now whenever I log in it's like I'm getting ready to do battle with sexy Cylons instead of... posting on /. all day.

Re:

[PhunkySchtuff]

I have sounds for useful things, so I don't have to literally keep an eye on my computer to see what it's doing - I can divert my attention to other tasks and the computer will alert me when it's done doing what I set it to do.

For instance, there's a chime when I've finished burning a CD/DVD.
There's a sound when email arrives.
There's also a sound when email is sent - ie, not when I hit send, but when it's been uploaded to the SMTP server.
With the time Windows takes to start up, I like a login sound so I kno

Re:

[Durrok]

Yes and they should add a sound that sounds like a cat being beat on a steel drum for whenever a user installs spyware onto their machine.

Macs have it right

[payndz]

"Bwongg!" - everything's going fine.
"Bu-da-lah-ding, boh-dah-la-dong..." - you've got problems.

But better yet is a decent sleep mode. "..."

Can Frippertronics save Vista?

[fohat]

While I'm most likely never buying this OS, I've been a big fan of Robert "Bob" Fripp for quite some time. For those who don't know who he is, He founded one of the premier "intelligent rock" bands, "King Crimson." He also worked heavily with Brian Eno and Peter Gabriel in the 1970's, creating some of the more brilliant music of the time. His solo work (and duo) relies on something he and Eno invented called "Frippertronics" which later evolved into "Soundscapes" in the 90's. I really can't wait to hear what he's come up with on this project, creating very short sound pieces seems a bit harder than the much longer pieces he normally plays.

The title of this post is a bit of a Lark, of course it can.

My choice for the startup sound of course would be the opening section of the song "Discipline" from the "Three of a Perfect Pair" album. And perhaps a good error noise would be Belew singing, "I repeat myself when under stress I repeat myself when under stress I repeat!"

But enough of this banter.

Re:Can Frippertronics save Vista?

[CrankyOldBastard]

You left out his work with David Bowie on the Heroes album, which is undoubtedly Fripps most listened-to work. There was an issue of Guitar Player magazine back in the mid 1980s which had details on exactly how he got that delay thing working, and had a floppy record of some astounding solo work. Listen to the David Bowie track "Moss Garden" to hear Frippertronics at full steam.

A good sign

[fermion]

It is this attention to detail that differentiates a quality product and something just chucked out the door. We see it on many types of products. For example, the miata has a tuned exhaust note. It cost a bunch of money, money that could have been used for executive bonuses, but Mazda instead invested it in the car.

We see this often with computer and programs. Thinking about how long it take a computer to boot up or wake. Thinking of how many key clicks it takes to get from one place to another. Thinking of the opportunity costs of forcing users to enter 30 character validation keys at every turn.

As long they have funded the sound as additional work, and not just redirected the effort from another project, I see this as a good sign. It could mean that MS Windows will be a tool that people like to use, and not just one they have to use.

Re:

[Dunbal]

We see this often with computer and programs. Thinking about how long it take a computer to boot up or wake. Thinking of how many key clicks it takes

      Thinking about how many megabytes the "patch" is going to be...

Are startup sounds really necessary?

[theurge14]

"One major concern was that the startup sound not grow grating after a time."

How about getting rid of the sound? What else does a startup sound inspire other than the sour feeling of having to restart the PC all the time?

Re:

[Xenolith]

Turn them off yourself. You have the power.

Re:

[omicronish]

How about getting rid of the sound? What else does a startup sound inspire other than the sour feeling of having to restart the PC all the time?

On older builds of Vista it was impossible to get rid of this sound, but after enough complaining they added a checkbox in the Sound control panel. See this [windowsvistablog.com] for more details.

Re:

[theurge14]

I would equate the roar of an old car more to the PC's post beep than I would the Vista startup sound, but perhaps you are right.

Does anyone know the name of the sound Macs play when you press the power button?

Good god

[melted]

Hire a decent musician, spend 18 months and millions of dollars futzing with stuff he recorded and RELEASE A TURD anyway. That's the unique Microsoft development process (tm).

Ask Slashdot !

[alexhs]

Especially when you just have to check for Slashdot polls [slashdot.org] to get it.

People want techno (26%) !

a techno beat was removed from considering

A mistake ! At least take a Heavy Metal tune, then ! (23%)

Everything else is worse than silence (19%).

About that Windows 95 sound...

[sammy baby]

This link has popped up a few places today, but just in case you missed it: the SF Chronicle did an interview with Fripp [sfgate.com] back in 1996, in which he talked about developing the startup sound to Windows 95.

I'm kind of a Fripp fan, so I got a kick out of reading this:

Q: How did you come to compose ``The Microsoft Sound''?

A: The idea came up at the time when I was completely bereft of ideas. I'd been working on my own music for a while and was quite lost, actually. And I really appreciated someone coming along and saying, ``Here's a specific problem -- solve it.''

The thing from the agency said, ``We want a piece of music that is inspiring, universal, blah- blah, da-da-da, optimistic, futuristic, sentimental, emotional,'' this whole list of adjectives, and then at the bottom it said ``and it must be 3 1/4 seconds long.''

I thought this was so funny and an amazing thought to actually try to make a little piece of music. It's like making a tiny little jewel.

Re:About that Windows 95 sound...

[Adam Hazzlebank]

Brain Eno not Fripp designed the Windows 95 sound...

Re:

[sammy baby]

Okay, I'm feeling pretty dumb right now.

On the other hand, Eno and Fripp aren't exactly strangers. So hey, at least I was in the right neighborhood. :)

Re:

[ggy]

This link has popped up a few places today, but just in case you missed it: the SF Chronicle did an interview with Fripp back in 1996, in which he talked about developing the startup sound to Windows 95. I'm kind of a Fripp fan, so I got a kick out of reading this:

Pity that you're not a Brian Eno fan, as that interview was with him...

They are correct

[nurb432]

I know that the current startup sounds make me want to puke, and im sure that i am not alone.

Dont want your customers throwing up everytime they use your product.

Let me guess...

[Mikachu]

Let me guess... the BSOD sound is going to be "One More Red Nightmare"? :)

Preview of Vista sounds

[springbox]

Comparison with Windows XP [istartedsomething.com]. I do actually find applications making various sounds useful, because it means I don't have to keep checking or stare at them to check for significant events. There are a lot of sounds in Vista that, by comparison, seem like they're trying to "hide" from the user. Some of them are much less noticeable. In particular, I noticed that the "battery low" and "battery critical" sounds were pretty generic and surprisingly upbeat.

No thanks.

[SocialEngineer]

I've been a musician for about 13 years now, a composer for 6, and a music snob for many years beyond that, and I can safely say that I think they have succeeded at failing to create a lasting startup sound.

For the era, The windows 95 startup sound was good - especially in stereo. While it was somewhat obtrusive, I think it was the best out of all the startup sounds MS has bundled with a Windows OS.

The 4 note progression, if trying to follow the syllables of "Win-dows Vis-ta", should (disclaimer: in my opinion, mind you), be quite different. The ascension progression should (disclaimer: more opinion) hang on the last note (Think "I want my M-T-Veeeeeeeeeeeeee"). Just dropping the progression and sinking into the background chords in the manner they have chosen rubs me the wrong way.

Now, if they had chosen a progression that doesn't continue to ascend, such as the tradmark NBC sound, I think they would have it. When that "C" is struck, it creates a musical sense of relief and completion (disclaimer: my brain says so).

The ascension feels like it is choking, to me. Almost like the way a person would ask a short question - "Windows Vista?"

Oh well. I disable all startup sounds on computers anyway, as they take up RAM, and tend to not blend with whatever music I'm listening to at the time. :)

Too bad they didn't think to let us vote

[willutah]

Microsoft missed a chance to build hype for Vista -- they could have posted all of the candidate startup sounds and then let users pick by majority vote. It would have driven a ton of traffic to their Vista promotional site. (Heck, they could have even pretended like we had a say kind of like the way management does in most of corporate America).

To me the sound they picked kind of evokes an emperor with no clothes - it is four notes long: sol-do-re-sol. Kind of sounds like a rip off of the beginning of the

Haha, thats easy!

[Shados]

You want a sound that people will love the first time they hear it, but it's a paradox to also say, 'Oh and by the way, we need people to love it the tenth, or the hundredth, or the thousandth time they hear it,' Ball said."

Just make the sound be an autogenerated one, with a person that says something like: "Thank you for using Windows Vista. We appreciate it so much, that you can call us, and provider the following code to get 15$ check mailed in to you! ", and the the sound says the voice. I can swe

Anticipating repitition speaks volumes

[Dracos]

(pun possibly intended)

MS insisting that the startup sound be tolerable after 1000 times hearing it alludes to the fact that they know how unstable and badly architected Windows (including Vista) is. There's got to be an internal memo regarding how often in a given time period the average user would hear the startup sound.

And no, this is not a direct correlation to Gnome/KDE startup sounds, which would only be played when Gnome/KDE or X is started, not the entire OS. OSX, iirc, embeds the Mac startup

Re:

[spectecjr]

MS insisting that the startup sound be tolerable after 1000 times hearing it alludes to the fact that they know how unstable and badly architected Windows (including Vista) is. There's got to be an internal memo regarding how often in a given time period the average user would hear the startup sound.

The Windows startup sound plays when you login these days. And some people (eg. me) restart their machine at home every day. Why? Because it costs money to run the thing. *shrugs*

Startup sounds I want

[Anonymous Coward]

(mainly for computers for which I'm not the only user)

- Earth-shattering kaboom
- Beethoven's 9th (yes, all of it)

much too high frequencies

[perler]

is i just me or are these vista sounds [istartedsomething.com] teeth grinding high? PAT

Re:18 months....

[rvw]

Well in fact this is the reason of all the delays! The other problems etc, they were just to give the composer a bit more time. As you can hear, it really was worth the effort!

Re:

[RonnyJ]

Is it too much of a stretch to think that Microsoft employs both programmers *and* a few sound artists?

Re:Sounds?

[Tim C]

No offence, but your post (and it's upward moderation) underscores a lot of what is wrong with a lot of open source software to my mind. The little bits of polish really do matter to most people; they may not notice it when it's there, but they sure as hell notice when it's missing.

You do realise that MS employs both programmers and sound engineers, right? And that devoting some time for a sound engineer to try to make sure the sound scheme is as good as possible does not detract one iota from the amount of effort that the programmers can put in to their parts of the project, right?

On a project of this size, aesthetics and engineering considerations are not mutually exclusive, you can have both. The problems only come when you have too few people, the wrong mix of skills, or too little time/money. None of these are problems for Vista.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

No offence, but your post (and it's upward moderation) underscores a lot of what is wrong with a lot of open source software to my mind. The little bits of polish really do matter to most people; they may not notice it when it's there, but they sure as hell notice when it's missing.

There is a big difference between polish and flashiness, the former applies to functionality as much as anything else while the later does not.

The problems only come when you have too few people, the wrong mix of skills, or too l

Re:

[fbjon]

But you can't just "allocate more resources" to a software project from another project and have it magically produce better results. Especially since the resource drain of a few people spending 18 months perfecting short sound clips is pretty much nonexistent.

Re:

[Tim C]

There is always a trade off between where you allocate resources

That depends on how much time and money you have to devote to the project. Time clearly hasn't been an issue for Vista, and given Microsoft's resources, I very much doubt that money has either.

Yes, of course for most projects there are constraints on how much effort can be expended, and the same is certainly true of Vista. However if you think for one second that resources have been diverted from making the OS secure (as in the OP's complaint)

Re:

[billcopc]

It's foolish to think they took resources away from technical development to focus on sound engineering. We're not talking about some jobless geek's weekend project, this is Microsoft. If they need a sound guy, they hire a sound guy independent of the dev team.

I think my issue is that if they spent 18 months working on a bunch of sounds, someone (or a group of someones) had to have been paid during that time. How much of that cost relates to the sticker price of Vista ? Do the sounds make me more produc

Re:

[smash]

From memory, the development cost of vista has run into the billions?

1 sound geeks pay x 1.5 yrs = anywhere between say 75k and 300k.

A piss in the ocean....

Re:

[myowntrueself]

You do realise that MS employs both programmers and sound engineers, right? And that devoting some time for a sound engineer to try to make sure the sound scheme is as good as possible does not detract one iota from the amount of effort that the programmers can put in to their parts of the project, right?

Wow thats really interesting.

I'd always got the impression that Microsoft would preferentially pull people off of the *security* teams to focus on getting the sound just right.

Appearances sure can be deceiv

Re:Sounds?

[kevinadi]

The problems only come when you have too few people, the wrong mix of skills, or too little time/money. None of these are problems for Vista.

or if you're in denial and believe in your own superiority over everyone, like how some open source people have become. Note the replies that came after your post.

Let me quote:

There is a big difference between polish and flashiness, the former applies to functionality as much as anything else while the later does not.

and

Your post underscores a lot of what is wrong with this M$/propietary software movement, that is, you keep stating the obvious, changing aesthetics and pretending its some new 'kewl' hip new thing, and over all, trying to be elitest bastards.

And many more to come.

I'm almost certainly will be modded as troll, but I don't really care. This is exactly the reason why open source will never rule the world, the mentality of "we are superior" and "strike down those that say otherwise". Or even "silence those that criticize the obvious flaw in our thinking". Oh, and the lemmings mentality that praise everything Apple.

Instead of discussing WHY MS put so much effort in this area, it is instantly scoffed at and judged without the slightest clue. Scoff all you want, people. These guys are making millions of dollars each year, while most of you DO NOT. There must be something they're doing right, so if you want OSS to succeed, steal some of it instead of dismissing it like 5 year olds. Nevermind their monopoly tactics, their product DOES have some merit of its own, which are left as exercise for the readers.

The response of slashdot to criticism is very predictable. Watch how my comment is modded down to oblivion.

Re:

[dbIII]

This is exactly the reason why open source will never rule the world

It's just a subset of the sharing of scientific knowlege that makes our society what it is today - why would it want to rule the world?

Re:Sounds?

[Dhalka226]

The response of slashdot to criticism is very predictable. Watch how my comment is modded down to oblivion.

You forgot about the part where if you say "go ahead and mod me down" or "I'll probably get modded down for this," you in fact get modded up. It's one of those Slashdot peculiarities.

Form ahead of function

[dbIII]

No offence, but your post (and it's upward moderation) underscores a lot of what is wrong with a lot of open source software to my mind. The little bits of polish really do matter to most people

Yes, there a re a couple of ways of looking at applications, and in my opinion you are wrong. You can spot a newbie developer by the proposed screenshots posted before there is any code - a dog ugly app that works is a lot better than something with a lot of grey menu items you can't touch becuase they are not impl

Re:

[stubear]

"...and over all, trying to be elitest bastards."

Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, pot.

Re:

[suv4x4]

This seems to underscore Microsoft's focus on flashiness over function, to me.

What is "this", which underscores Microsoft's focus on flashiness to you? That Robert Fripp spent 18 months on it? That they did an article about it?

Oh no! How could they've an article about it and so on, when Robert Fripp and that clueless reporter should be working on improving the security of Windows Vista!

Get a clue.

Re:Sounds?

[g_adams27]

> This seems to underscore Microsoft's focus on flashiness over function, to me.
> I would hope that far more development would go into security, efficiency, and reliability.

I think you have a misunderstanding of how software development works. It's not as if Microsoft Executives said "Stop working on the security, boys, and start frettin' those guitars!" They're independent teams - working on Windows sounds isn't going to pull resources off the programming teams.

> Adding new and exciting sounds is pretty far down the list of what would make me want to run out and buy a new OS.

No, but it's going to contribute to your sense of comfort with that OS; and if that doesn't apply to you specifically, it WILL apply to most Windows users. What's going to make people feel like they're using a well-designed OS? I can guarantee that for the vast majority of people, it's not going to be clever kernel I/O scheduling algorithms or an efficient garbage-collection subroutine. It will be the look and feel of what they see (and hear) every day when they turn on their PC.

> Especially since we've had the ability customize the sound scheme since what, Windows 3.0?

Accounting for statistical outliers, approximately.... nobody does that. So, the default sounds had better be pretty good.

Re:

[bob65]

No, but it's going to contribute to your sense of comfort with that OS;

Exactly - does a car with a tightly put-together interior with high-quality materials and a door that closes with a reassuring "thud" , steering that's nice and heavily weighted, and brake pedals that are tuned to the nice amount of stiffness and sensitivity make most people feel more comfortable with that car?

Think Mercedes-Benz cars. How nice do they feel? Now look at how often the break down and how low they are on the quality

Re:

[kisrael]

This seems to underscore Microsoft's focus on flashiness over function, to me. I would hope that far more development would go into security, efficiency, and reliability.

With a company the size of Microsoft, it's not the zero-sum game you imply. Your sound team has very little if any overlap with the engineers who make the damn thing work.

Adding new and exciting sounds is pretty far down the list of what would make me want to run out and buy a new OS

I don't think it's going to be marketed as a selling point

Re:

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

"I would hope that far more development would go into security, efficiency, and reliability."

Um.. yeah, I'm sure the sound effects guy could have just hopped right on to a computer and started writing better security.

Re:

[jlarocco]

Well, it's not as if they can ask their sound engineer and composer to write kernel patches is it, so they may as well earn their keep...

Are you being facetious? If they fired their composers and sound engineers, they could pay for a few more developers, security revieiwers, designers, or other people to help make the OS more secure.

The concern about sound also implies that somewhere up the management chain, some idiot is thinking "Man when are they going to get the sound done?" instead of "Are ther

Re:

[TheRaven64]

If they fired their composers and sound engineers, they could pay for a few more developers, security revieiwers, designers, or other people to help make the OS more secure.

If they burned a large stack of money every day, they could still afford to pay all these people. Unfortunately, their codebase seems to be in a state where adding more people doesn't address the problems.

Re:

[smash]

Are you being facetious? If they fired their composers and sound engineers, they could pay for a few more developers, security revieiwers, designers, or other people to help make the OS more secure.

This is microsoft. If they wanted to, they could just employ a few more developers, security reviewers, designers or other people anyway.

Its not like they're short of funds to do so.

This is microsoft's flagship product. Microsoft has a war-chest of billions of dollars, that is still growing last I heard

Re:

[Lonewolf666]

After listening to the sound in TFA, I'm amazed by how annoying it is.
Ignoring for a moment the fact that the composer is known, I'm imagining they told their kernel programmers to throw some sounds together ;-)

cellular automata based composition

[toby]

By Wolfram Research, makers of Mathematica. Surprisingly addictive. [wolframtones.com]

(Some compositions [wolfram.com] I made.)

Re:

[novus ordo]

Thank you for that link. It conveniently crashed Firefox.

Re:

[spectecjr]

Why don't they have a composer come up with a motif and they then use a random seed to resynthesise the sounds within certain parameters each time it plays? But of course that could be innovation and we all know Microsoft don't do that.

DirectMusic (part of DirectX) has allowed you to do that kind of stuff for.. well... years. At least 8 of them, in fact.

The thing is, you don't want the startup sound to deliberately grab your attention by randomly morphing each time you start up. You want it to slowly sink i

Re:

[YrWrstNtmr]

... why not let me use my own sound clips?
Why am I stuck with the musty-sounding Vista start-up sound clip that Microsoft thinks I will like?

That's been a function since at least Win95, maybe before.

Re:

[CaymanIslandCarpedie]

I remember changing sounds in Win 3.1

Re:

[Iron Condor]

Why am I stuck with the musty-sounding Vista start-up sound clip that Microsoft thinks I will like?

You aren't. You have been able to choose your sounds through Control Panel | Sounds since as far back as at least Win95.

Re:

[QuietLagoon]

The ability to change the Start-up sound in Vista has been removed.

Re:

[pilkul]

They have changed the behavior. In the build of Vista I'm using, it's possible to turn off the startup sound but not to change it. According to a few sources (e.g. here [scobleizer.com]), they were also considering making it impossible to turn off without a registry hack; I'm not sure how it's going to be in the final release.

Re:

[6Yankee]

All your base are belong to Chuck Norris.