Blu-ray's Hardware Woes Stacking Up 196
An anonymous reader writes "The bad news just keeps on coming for Blu-ray. First, Sony halved its U.S./Japanese launch shipments of its Blu-ray powered PlayStation 3, blaming a shortage of blue lasers. Then, in the last two weeks, both Sony and Pioneer delayed the releases of their new Blu-ray players, refusing to cite reasons. And this week, at Blu-ray backer LG's annual dealer show, a previously announced LG Blu-ray player was nowhere to be found. LG product development director Tim Alessi had this to say: 'We will provide an announcement when the time is right.'"
PS2 DVD vs PS3 Blu-Ray (Score:3, Insightful)
I could be wrong, but it seems like including Blu-Ray may be the biggest mistake that Sony made on the PS3; it will increase the cost of the PS3, reduce the supply, and has so little content for it that it probably will not increase sales. If the PS3 was to be released in Q4 of 2008 Blu-Ray would have probably been an amazing addition, but in Q4 of 2006 it seems like a massive disaster.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
There's no practical difference between the DVD Consortium/Forum and the Blu-Ray Disc Association. This is the DVD Consortium founding member list:
# Hitachi, Ltd.
# Matsushita Electric Industrial Co. Ltd.
# Mitsubishi Electric Corporation
# Pioneer Electronic Corporation
# Royal Philips Electronics N.V.
# Sony Corporation
# Thomson
# Time Warner Inc.
# Toshiba Corporation
# V
BDA support vs. BDA oppostion (Score:2)
HD-DVD support:
Canon Inc.
Digital Theater Systems
Hitachi Maxell, Ltd.
Kenwood Corporation
Mitsubishi Kagaku Media Co., Ltd.
NEC Corporation
Onkyo Corporation
Paramount Home Entertainment
Sanyo Electric Co., Ltd.
Teac Corporation
Toshiba Corporation
Universal Pictures
Warner Home Video Inc.
The Weinstein Company
Warner Bros. and the Warner Music Group are associated with both Blur-Ray (tha
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
There was competition from DIVX. However, once people realized that you could only buy DIVX players and movies at Circuit City, and that you had to pay every time you wanted to watch one, and that you couldn't play your "gold" unlocked discs in any other player except your own, and that DIVX movies didn't come with extra features, etc - people caught on quick.
The problem with HD-DVD versus Blu-Ray is two-fold:
The first issue is that both standards ar
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm a big supporter of the 360, but I have to admit that the Blu-ray drive might actually prove to be a big advantage to Sony in the long run. It makes the PS3 much more future-proof than the 360, which is already hitting the wall on game storage space. Along with the decision to include a hard drive STANDARD (MS's biggest bonehead move with the 360 was actually taking a step BACKWARDS with the tard box), this could prove to ultimately be a ver
Re: (Score:2)
If Sony can actually produce the system they claim, then it will be so much better than the 360. I'm keeping my 360 though for when Halo 3 comes out. Boo yaka.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You obviously haven't played PGR3. Oblivion's got nothing on the load screen bonanza that is PGR3.
Anyway, interesting take on the PS3 HDD; I hadn't put 2 and 2 together on that one yet.
Re: (Score:2)
I completely agree, PGR is a bit of a mess. When you try and restart a race on the same course it still takes ages to 'reload' it, and there isn't even any dynamic movable scenery to re-position (other than maybe the odd scripted plane that flys overhead)! It's much worse than the origional MSR on the Dreamcast or PGR on the X-Box, as much as I like the Live stuff the progression system is not as good either, i
Re: (Score:2)
Or 6, or twelvtey, or whatever it's up to now, I should say.
I liked the origional TOCA game, until it stopped being about racing touring cars and started forcing you to play through all the stages with eveything from karts to grand prix cars to old muscle cars (which all handle widly differently, and you can't just pick and choose which style to play a series of races in, you have to play them all in order).
Oh and PGR3 is way too stingy on the cars now
Re: (Score:2)
Re:PS2 DVD vs PS3 Blu-Ray (Score:4, Insightful)
Sony is either smart or very dumb. The jury is still out (despite what most /. members think, like myself).
However, we need to look at it like this... what would have happened if Sony did NOT put blu-ray in their PS3? HD-DVD would have garnered a large early lead against Sony and probably would have killed of Blu-Ray. It's just one big obvious strategy. Sure, the gamers are largely unhappy about it, due to the increase in cost, but if they have a Blu-Ray on their game system (whether they want it or not), and they start to build a Blu-Ray DVD collection, they're more likely to purchase a Blu-Ray stand-alone since they already started a Blu-Ray collection.
It was more of a do or die strategy. The PS3 was the only thing they could guarantee that their technology would get penetration. Lets face it, when it comes to spending money, it's only gamers who would justify $600 for a video game system, just like they spend $400 for the latest video card for their PC or buy/build a $4,000 gaming rig. That doesn't mean YOU (or more appropriately MYSELF) would spend that much on a brand new system, but that's not to say there isn't people out there that would.
I just talked to a friend of mine who waited in line at Toy-R-Us for their PS3 system. While doing so, he found a famous Green Bay Packers Wide Receiver (American Football) trying to buy their PS3 system off them for $100 extra. He ran into the same guy later at the Casino and found out he bribed a Circuit City employee to put his name at the top of the Pre-order list.
This same friend, who purchased 2 PS3 (he went with his cousin), are doing the whole E-Bay thing, where the pre-orders are selling for upwards of $3,000 now. So, the point is, Sony will sell their PS3's. Did they hurt their PlayStation franchise to push their Blu-Ray player? Absolutely. Will their PS3 survive? Without a doubt. Will it loose market share? No question about it, at least for the short term. Does this put Sony's Blu-Ray in a competitive position to become the 'next' format. Yes, without doing this, it would not have been as likely to succeed. In this way, they didn't have much choice. If Blu-Ray succeeds, that means Sony will be making enormous profits for decades. If the PS3 loose a large market share, it will still retain some and it can still gain ground in the future with huge price drops. This isn't a PS3 strategy. This is a Blu-Ray strategy.
I'm not planning on buying one, at least not for probably 3-4 years. I only bought a PS2 a month ago. =P
Cheers,
Fozzy
Re: (Score:2)
As a Wisconsinite and a Packers fan, I have to ask - who was it? We're sort of short on famous wide outs, right now, so am I safe in assuming it's #80? Or are we not talking about a current player?
Re: (Score:2)
That would be a safe assumption. =D
OR... (Score:2)
It would have been better for the consumers, better for the 3rd party manufacturers. We have yet to see if it would have been better for Sony ornot, but I firmly believe they are going to regret the whole Blu-ray fiasco.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
However, we need to look at it like this... what would have happened if Sony did NOT put blu-ray in their PS3? HD-DVD would have garnered a large early lead against Sony and probably would have killed of Blu-Ray.
Re: (Score:2)
No, they are not going to drive the market, but they are going to be part of the market. IF there are no problems with the PS3 Blu-Ray player, then you are going to convert gamers to Blu-Ray instead of HD-DVD, unless they own an HD-DVD setup before their PS3 purchase.
The point about eBay is th
Re: (Score:2)
I doubt Sony is hoping that the content available for on Blu-Ray will increase PS3 sales. It's more likely they're hoping that a few million Blu-Ray-capable PS3's will increase content sales, and allow them to win this format war.
Re: (Score:2)
Another difference is that when the PS2 came out, there were *tons* of multi-disc PS1 games. FFVIII was 3 CDs. The CD format was already insufficient when the PS2 came out.
I have never seen a PS2 game that required 2 DVDs... let alone 3.
Re: (Score:2)
Either Crazy or Crazy Like A Fox (Score:2)
Beyond all of this, Sony has a history of doing this in their engineering. They come up with a
Re: (Score:2)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-Ray_Disc [wikipedia.org]
The Blu-Ray specifications were not finalized in 2003 so how could they have released a Blu-Ray recorder?
My point was that the first DVD movie player (that played movies) was released in March 1997 with the PS3 being released in Q4 2000, the
Re: (Score:2)
http://www.blureporter.com/blu-ray/news/117 [blureporter.com]
How can you have a Blu-Ray drive before you have a finalized Blu-Ray disc spec?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The very first paragraph after your link [wikipedia.org]:
The first Blu-ray Disc recorder was unveiled by Sony on March 3, 2003, and was introduced to the Japanese market in April that year. On September 1, 2003, JVC and Samsung Electronics announced Blu-ray Disc-based products at IFA in Berlin, Germany. Both indicated that their products would be on the market in 2005.
They SHOWED a DEMO in 2003, but even then they said they would not have any products unt
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
How do you define a "better" technology? It can be argued that the lower costs of the discs and players of HD-DVD make it a "better" technology. Regardless, I don't see the relevance of this point in what I said because it would have been a mistake to include HD-DVD on the PS3 as well; it would have increased the cost (to a lesser extent), reduced supply and provided little content which would sell more PS3s.
2. The market is different than it was bac
Re: (Score:2)
Nevermind that the Toshiba HD-DVD player sells for $500... Sure the Blu-Ray players are more expensive, but it makes more sense to compare a product with a competing product than to compare it against itself. That said, the Sony BR player can be pre-ordered for $999... Why in the world would a player built int
Really? (Score:2)
HDDVD has had delayed drives as well.
I mean, I hate Sony as much as the next person, but this is really a non-story. I really hope Blu-Ray fails, but I not running around making up shit to help it on its way, and if I did, it would be better than this.
Re: (Score:2)
The PS3 though is in a much more precarious position. Timing is critical in the console industry right now. Sony are doing everything they can do ease supply shortages. That's what this story is about, Blu-Ray players have been delayed indefinitely (probably a few months) so that there's less of a shortage of PS3
Re: (Score:2)
But if Sony is successful at positioning it as a media hub, then many more people might buy it. At $600 it's a steal if it lets you play your various media files on machines on your network (this is getting more and more common as households get multip
Re: (Score:2)
Did it? AFAIK they use the same laser diodes so it should have similar problems but I get my news only from the zonked news dept. (I'm not really in the market for a player so I just read what's posted on /.) and it definitely sounds like Blu-Ray has more problems.
Is this just a wave of attack-/vertisments payed by MS/Toshiba? Is it just Sony that has problems with the diodes? Is it some other problem and they just say it's the diodes for some reason? Is it the necess
And I saw my first HD-DVDR on the shelf .... (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
hoping to avoid unbearable noise (Score:2)
So, if the PS3 (the versions that hit the stores, not the showroom ones) makes less noise than the xbox, I will be throwing that in the trash.
Re: (Score:2)
Tell you what. When you decide to throw your xbox in the trash, let me know. I'll gladly pay shipping for you to send it to me, instead.
Re: (Score:2)
Well I might not be throwing it in the trash. I have someone who wants to buy it from me in case I decide to get rid of it.
Re: (Score:2)
Are you serious about not supporting Sony and then turn around and support Microsoft?
Lets see now.
The PS3 will not only run but have a company support Linux on it.
It will run a subset of OpenGL and thus offer better migration to OSX and Linux for games.
It will offer an open solution to Internet.
But, if you want to support Microsoft then that is your option. I mean they have never done anything unethical.
Then again you could just go to Nintento. They would never do anything unethical
Re: (Score:2)
*Fap* *Fap* *Fap*
"It will run a subset of OpenGL and thus offer better migration to OSX and Linux for games."
That ain't the problem to getting games to OSX and Linux. The problem is that in the case of Linux, for example, a Linux game was considered 'successful' if it sold 10k copies. The audience is that small. The most successful game, so far, sold a whopping 40,000 copies.
"It will offer an open solution to Internet."
Free, not open.
"But
Re: (Score:2)
Wow... good thing all you pro Sony boys don't have crappy lubricant.
"Stuff like this makes me want a PS3 even more now."
The idea of Fapping over Linux on the PS3 makes you want one even more?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Here is a short summary.
Nintendo and Sega had a war going on for many years, and Nintendo went to Sony to produce a CD add on to their current console. They did this because Sega released a CD version of a console and they needed to show their customers that Nintendo could do the same thing. There were a ton of pictures of the device and then they even said it would improve the graphics of the Nintendo. So a lot of customers bought in to the fact that Nintendo was "just a
Re: (Score:2)
Sony isn't killing anyone. Nintendo is ticking along nicely. Their consoles cost a lot less to make and tend to actually make them money at launch time. Nintendo might sell less units - but they're going to be WAY out ahead of Sony in this war because
Re: (Score:2)
While the prices in the US are still $500/$600, all models include HDMI output now.
Re: (Score:2)
come on guy. Just rewind time a bit and you can replace Sony with Nintendo.
Nintendo showed EVERYONE the CD/Graphics update for the Super Nintendo for YEARS! They had all these specs that showed it was 32bit and it would crush Sega. The difference
Re: (Score:2)
Everyone? Anyone I know that even knows that they were working on one only knows because it's part of the history of the Playstation and they found out about it long after they bought a PS1 and they were looking at some FAQ. Or because I told them :P
By contrast, far more gamers seem to know about the 64DD. And I'm not talking about DOA beach volle
Re: (Score:2)
Really! You are now down to name calling. That says a lot about you.
I am glad you at least admitted about the PS1 having some better 3d support. For a system that was around 1/4 less expensive at launch, that says a lot.
Also, I know remember why most people didn't like Sega fans.
Re: (Score:2)
No, name calling is when I call you a fucking idiot, because that's what you are. Telling you that you have no idea what you're talking about is simply a factual statement.
Yes, it had one feature that the Sat
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Sounds familiar... (Score:5, Funny)
Any hope for a combo player? (Score:2)
Until they sort this thing our, I'm going to sit on the sidelines waiting for a format to emerge as the real winner.
Re: (Score:2)
IMO this is probably the quickest and safest solution if you really want to get into HD movies. I anticipate this "war" will end up more like the DVD-R vs DVD+R war then it will like the VHS vs Betamax.
No Wonder They're Low on Blue Lasers... (Score:4, Funny)
Hmmm (Score:2)
I would lean to them thinning the market, for Christmas. It makes the demand go up and causes a frenzy of buyers looking for it. As well as news about how the hot Christmas item, the PS3, is in short supply. Many reviews from writers wanting to cover the new items and not look like they are behind, etc.
It is a marketing ploy and old news.
Re: (Score:2)
Oh well, Sorry.
Re: (Score:2)
Like this? http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=212 [vgcats.com]
Dual layer problems with Blu-ray... (Score:2)
Has that been solved? Is that the reason for the delay? I am not trying to spread FUD, but other than a quick blurb four months ago I've heard nothing else about the problem.
HD-DVD and Blu-Ray... (Score:2)
Much of the delay for Blu-Ray players is because Sony, one of the few manufacturers of these lasers, is keeping production for the PS3. Other Blu-Ray manufacturers are stuck without lasers.
I don't see anything to indicate that this will benefit the HD-DVD camp - they've got laser shor
Um...? (Score:2)
Still hoping both the current "HD DVD" formats die (Score:2)
Then, maybe, these companies can go back and design a more consumer-friendly medium that people can actually buy and use without worrying that they're going to get their legs busted because they didn't pay their protection money to the various **AA for the right to look and listen THIS week. Oh, and for the tech geek in me, one that really DOES offer significantly better image quality.
Right now, t
Re:Still hoping both the current "HD DVD" formats (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I figure, if TPTB continue making stuff that isn't really consumer friendly, the consumer really should stop consuming the crap they're being shoveled.
Makes sense to me (Score:2)
It's the software, stupid (Score:2)
Everything the HDMV runtime does has to be replicated by the BD-J runtime, like 2 products in one. Furthermore, you just can't do everything BD-J needs to do in pure Java. As they learned more about the BD-J spec
BetaRay (Score:2)
Blu-ray is the way to go... (Score:2)
First of all, the extra capacity allows for more textures, more information, cutscenes,
Second, the drive speed can be relatively low and still be able to read more information than a normal DVD. This is the reason why the Xbox 360's DVD driv
Re: (Score:2)
Sony hasn't learned anything. They are not using a "it won't get to market until it is done" approach here because they are gentlemen.
What is happening, is that Sony is suffering from their long-time habit of announcing products that are FAR from being complete. In the past they have been able to produce the product (with features removed) for th launch date. But this time they've finally been bitten in the butt, and they just can't do it.
In my mi
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Hilarious! (Score:2)
Well executed.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't think you know what you're talking about. I mean, your description of what sony is doing is correct but I think your analysis of why they are doing it is way off.
You say "S
Re: (Score:2)
But this time it may have backfired. Or at least I hope it did.
Re: (Score:2)
From what I hear, the lesson is to run your format and cost projections past the porn industry... then go with what they decide.
Re: (Score:2)
Flaw in your business plan (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Plan B would be to stand outside the shop with a baseball bat.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
That's okay, I'll hit them with my Xbox, which is much much bigger. Military superiority! My backup weapon is an original Xbox controller.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not sure what reason people have for rooting for HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. The standards are virtually identical in most respects (including their reliance on blue laser diodes meaning each are equally affected by shortages). Neither is an industry standard, and neither does either have a compelling reason you should use it ov
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The chances of a DRM-less open standard are zero. Look at every music format going all the way back to the wax cylinder. They were all proprietary in their day and often there were competing standard
Re: (Score:2)
Blu-Ray is meaningless too and I hate typing it. I'd abbreviate it to BD if anyone knew what I was talking about. Perhaps in a few years they might.
Re: (Score:2)
$ony
Uh oh. Meme alert.
You forgot a call to toupper(char) (Score:2)
Dual Layer and Codec (Score:2)