Vista to Allow "One Significant" Hardware Upgrade 641
fiorenza writes "Ars Technica spoke with Microsoft concerning the controversial changes in Windows Vista's licensing, and they have learned that Vista will permit one 'significant' hardware change before requiring users to either appeal to Microsoft support or purchase another license. Automatic re-activation online will fail after one use. Microsoft is using a new algorithm to monitor hardware changes and enforce licensing compliance, and the company says that it is more forgiving now than it was with Windows XP."
New Hardware Found..... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:New Hardware Found..... (Score:4, Insightful)
As a small-business owner who spends all day just configuring/fixing/testing/developing/working, I can tell you right now.....This would pound the last nail into the coffin for using MS products for me. MS obviously doesn't care about people that have to make things WORK and have little time to do so. After I have spend a few hundred hours tweaking a mail server that will have to deliver 100,000 messages per day, or a web farm that has to work FLAWLESSLY and serve hundreds of millions of hits per month, this one thing that I would not want to have to deal with, especially when I have to add/change a network interface to accomodate a SAN development or some other change where we don't have time to worry about such nonsensical shit as "Will the OS allow us to do this"
Screw that. My shop will stay Linux anyway, but that is just BS!
- Eric
Re:New Hardware Found..... (Score:4, Insightful)
There are a lot of huge business who buy thousands of bulk licenses, and they are MS' favorite customers.
But worldwide, there are probably millions of small businesses who are subject to the same decision; that will impact MS VERY significantly.
This reminds me of a decade ago when people used AOL instead of local dial-up because "AOL has 8 million customers... your local ISP has about 2000... clearly, they're America's favorite choice" but neglect that adding up the many local dial-up ISPs everywhere constitutes tens of millions of customers.
MS won't change their mind because this one guy is switching his little business to Linux. But when thousands of his competitors, parteners and peers do, they'll start thinking about it.
I don't see why you can't tell Windows "Hey, I'm going to switch hardware now, please deactivate my old license on this (point to HD and folder) installation and switch it to this new hard drive/computer/set of hardware". If Windows phoned home periodically to check its authenticity, like it does when you update it, MS might have to upgrade their WGA servers & whatnot, but it would prevent all this aggrevation. If the deactivated license tries to update (or just phone home on schedule), it locks them out and directs them to MS support.
I feel fucked because people pirate Windows all the time, get to play all their games & whatnot (the only reason I have Windows, plus a few full feature drivers that aren't there under Linux) and know how not to get screwed by malware, but I actually paid for it against my will because it was the right thing to do, and yet I'm worried sick about what happens if my HD dies, or I want to move my install to another disk or something. You can call them once or twice, but if you do it all the time, they get suspicious don't they? I don't want to be flagged as a (potential) pirate. I'm used to reinstalling Windows a couple of times a year (albeit less often with XP), and I'm fine with that.
They sure aren't working very hard to come up with an adequate solution to their problem... I may not be their favorite customer, but I still paid like $150 for an OEM XP Pro, and I feel like what they're doing isn't ethical. That should be reason enough to find a better solution. Yeah I know, nothing's perfect and they don't have to.
I salute MS with my long finger.
Re:New Hardware Found..... (Score:5, Interesting)
Last week, our phone guy decided to reinstall the OS on our main voice mail server. Since it was running a "lowly" copy of Windows 2000 Pro, he decided that it needed a "server-grade" OS, and bought Microsoft Windows 2003 Server for Small Businesses. He installed in near the end of the week, and then took time off to put a new roof on his house.
Well, this morning, the machine in question shut itself off. I turned it on, it shut itself off again in a couple of hours. I looked in event log, and found that the machine was turning itself off because we violated the EULA by not setting it up as a domain controller.
Yep. Just because we didn't need to authenticate users, the machine keeps shutting itself off. Isn't that user-friendly?
no problem (Score:5, Funny)
Re:New Hardware Found..... (Score:5, Interesting)
Reg key:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Servi
In regedit, right click, give Administrators permission to the key and all child nodes. Then change the Start DWORD that will appear undernearth that to 4.
Re:New Hardware Found..... (Score:5, Insightful)
Difficult by Design (Score:3, Interesting)
But your post is +5 funny in my books none the less.
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So basically (Score:3, Insightful)
aside from the various "grey" hacks and cracks that *WILL* come out of this - this is a very poor choice for MS imo.
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Re:So basically (Score:4, Funny)
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I think you meant "PC Novice". The enthusiasts were the ones trying new and different technologies rather than the bland boring crap that came with the PC.
Re:So basically (Score:5, Informative)
Sorry to disappoint, but the hobbyists are now decades removed from the empire builders. The hobbyists' desires no longer add value to the PC. The true empire builders are now the businesses who order 10,000 Dell PCs and the 10,000 Windows licenses to go with them. If you want to have an impact on the future direction of Windows, go work for one of the Fortune 500 companies and bend the ear of one of the resident Microsoft reps. Like any business, they only listen when it's money talking.
By the way, Microsoft loves the big orders. They make boatloads of money with no expense. The nice thing about business customers is those 10,000 people already have their own support structure, and only a handful of headquarters people are authorized to call MS and bitch about problems. Microsoft can afford to spend a bit of money helping them, (making them look like they have gold-plated service,) and yet doesn't have to answer to the 9,995 idiots who would otherwise be punching the f'ing monkey and installing spyware.
Re:So basically (Score:5, Funny)
Clippy:
"It looks like you're fucking up the english language!!11oneoneone
Did you mean:
a) Intents and purposes
b) intensive porpoises
c) insensitive poopy-faces?
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For a business, given that most large businesses with a rolling upgrade/replacement plan, they will buy a PC, ru
One significant change of hardware (Score:2)
Especially those who say "to hell with all this nonsense" and switch themselves, their parents, and their siblings to Macs as I did. 5 PCs have gone dark, 5 new Macs online in their place, and my "family tech support" time has gone from approx 10 hours a month (and some six-hour marathons rebuilding virus-laden machines) to ZERO in the past year. A "win-win" scenario.
Actually (Score:5, Funny)
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If it looks like a sale, it is a sale, right? (Score:5, Insightful)
i'll give you a hint (Score:5, Funny)
the phrase "0-day" doesn't exist for nothing.
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Re:If it looks like a sale, it is a sale, right? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Sorry, gotta lay the blame squarely on myself for this one. I bought Microsoft products for many years. It won't happen again, I promise. Now that I have taken care of
It is NOT the government's responsibilit
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I never understood the idea of selling software, until I realized that software is never sold. For Microsoft, selling software would make no sense, because they couldn't really tell you not to decompile it, as long as you weren't breaking patent or copyright laws. Naturally, Microsoft doesn't want this to happen, since it would allow people to figure out their various proprietary protocols and formats [and then write a description and have somebody
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In -6 years.
-matthew
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*in the future
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Not really. Take a look at this little gem:
LIMITATION ON AND EXCLUSION OF DAMAGES. You can recover from Microsoft and its suppliers only direct damages up to the amount you paid for the software. You cannot recover any other damages, including consequential, lost profits, special, indirect or incidental damages.
That says that you're agreeing you cannot (not will not) sue Microsoft for damages. That you do not have a right to br
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Of course... (Score:5, Insightful)
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They 'beleive' in trying to find any way they can to extend their monopoly, as that is the only realm within which they have made a profit in a very long time.
Microsoft have never been in favour of the knowledgeable end user, ever. They like nice complient end users who don't know anything bar what microsoft want them to know.
I went to a microsoft presentation where they said they had no interest in employing 'hackers' (in
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Virtualization (Score:2)
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Re:Virtualization (Score:4, Insightful)
Of course, Microsoft is pushing hard. Soon, they will push too hard, and mass migration away from them wills start to occur (I know, I know, this has been said since 1992...).
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as it says in the EULA [theregister.co.uk], you cant use the Home or Premium versions with virtualization. only the $400 Ultimate version. but, apparently, there's no technical restrictions keeping you from doing it, just legal.
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If you do the virtualization correctly, it should be impossible for the host OS to know that it is running inside a VM. As far as Windows is concerned, it is running directly on top of hardware. The fact that the hardware in question does not actually exist in meatspace is merely a conceptual distinction, not a functional one.
Cars (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Cars (Score:4, Insightful)
> What?!? Doesn't make sense? That's because when you buy something you should be able to do what you want with it.
Sorry dude, the infection has already spread. Go buy a house, cash money. Think you own it? Only if you bought a chunk of land in a very red state far away from any town.... of course most places like that are subject to being declared a wetland, wildlife preserve or national park with no prior warning.
That house you think you bought was probably built by a developer in a major development project. They retained first dibs on it, selling you limited 'rights'. And if you will notice you agreed to annual fees to a 'homeowners association' that can and will tell you exactly what sort of renovations you can and can't do, what vehicles you can park, etc. Many even regulate against you erecting a TV antenna.
And if that isn't enough, if your home is inside a city you may only use it for non-commercial purposes. And regardless of whether you live in a city/town, don't forget you get the 'right' to pay and pay property taxes to find any and all crazy schemes the government can invent.
So yes, shrink wrap EULAs are horrible, but only because you can't see em until you pay, but we already bent over and surrendered the idea of property rights a century ago.
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Excellent analogy.
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I could understand if say one licenses popped up on 10 different subnets with 10 different configurations one evening that there would likely be a pirating issue.
But If I upgrade my memory card last spring, and my primary hard drive this fall, I'm screwed.
The original anology is not perfect, but it is not completely inacurate. My car for instance has gone through three engines, two interiors, dozens of tires, a full suspention rebuild, a new sterio, etc... over the years that
Re:Cars (Score:4, Funny)
...
I got better.
-br
Errr... (Score:2)
I suppose that's true, in the sense that I'm required to either "appeal" to the valet parking guy or purchase another car.
Vista cannot stop an important software upgrade (Score:2, Troll)
Shoot themselves in the foot. (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm poor man (Score:2, Insightful)
Man, it sucks being poor.
How is this more friendly than XP? (Score:2)
You get more than that with XP. How can Microsoft claim that this is more friendly?
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Because (they claim) fewer upgrades will require re-activation. They (claim to) have an improved algorithm that produces fewer false violations. That said, this sounds like the straw that breaks my proverbial camel's back.
Not exactly news (Score:3, Informative)
See this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/29/microsoft
and this: http://www.gripe2ed.com/scoop/story/2006/10/24/04
and this: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=158 [zdnet.com]
MS is doing their best to kill Vista when/where they can. I wonder if they have OS/2'itis.
My Windows activation experience (Score:5, Informative)
I did upgrade my computer at one point, and the activation failed, so I called Windows support. I was quickly connected to some outsourced support technician who asked me the CD key of my XP CD, as well as the serial number and release (I think?) number. After giving him this info, he gave me a new CD key, which I assumed to be one shot only, like the previous one I had.
I have since learned that this is apparently a get-out-of-jail-free CD key, because I am able to install the same CD onto any machine with any hardware configuration and always pass Windows activation. And if Vista will be more lenient than XP was, then heck, I'm more than happy!
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I need to be "forgiven" to upgrade? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's uncomfortable to be in the situation that when I want to upgrade my computer, I need to be "forgiven".
--
The best of the Bush comedy videos [futurepower.org]
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"More Forgiving" (Score:2)
"Nice computer you have there
no one really knows (Score:2)
"Furthermore, users who go through such upgrades will be allowed to re-active their copy of Vista up to 10 times."
I really dont think its as big of a deal as a lot of people are making it out to be. Here's an example of how it worked in XP:
"User swaps the motherboard and CPU chip for an upgraded one, swaps the video adapter, adds a second hard drive for additional storage, doubles the amount of RAM, and swaps the CD ROM drive for a faster one.
Result: Reactivation is N
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"User swaps the motherboard and CPU chip for an upgraded one, swaps the video adapter, adds a second hard drive for additional storage, doubles the amount of RAM, and swaps the CD ROM drive for a faster one.
Result: Reactivation is NOT required."
And here is another example of how it worked (or rather, didn't work) in XP:
Upgraded from a direct connected single hard drive to a RAID card and 2 drive mirrored array.
Result: had to waste time on the phone with Microsoft get
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I pretty much did all of that, and never had to re authorize. I even swapped the primary HD with a bigger one.
What about non-upgrades..? (Score:2)
This really might not be THAT much of a problem... (Score:3, Insightful)
The biggest benefit of a PC over buying something like a Mac was specifically upgrades. The ability to purchase a new video card for a relatively low price when games start requiring more than you can handle, etc. So effectively, this makes the PC lose its greatest benefit. That's absolutely ridiculous.
Fuck you, Microsoft. Some of the other stuff that was new in their license kinda bothered me a bit, but it didn't really affect me much. But I'm a casual gamer, and this makes it impossible.
Re:This really might not be THAT much of a problem (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:This really might not be THAT much of a problem (Score:2)
Is this still true? I haven't tried to upgrade a component for a while (without at the same time reinstalling the OS onto a new HDD and all)--the last upgrade I did was to slot in new memory, and that went off without a hitch. I can see something like a video card being much harder, but my last video card replacement was under W2k, if I remember correctly, and probably required just a few reboots with a minimal amount of time spent using soft
"Bite Not The Hand That Feeds, Children." (Score:2, Insightful)
We will tell you when and where you may apply your licensed software. Do not try to trick us, because we will know. This hurts us more than it hurts you. It's for your own good. This is the only way we can protect our ability to deliver robust, secure software on-time and on-demand.
Thank you Linus. I mean, seriously. Thank you. Whose chaps would we be sucking if it weren't f
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I am altering the deal... (Score:5, Funny)
...pray I don't alter it any further.
Proving once again... (Score:3, Funny)
It's not off topic, just think about it for a moment.
Godwin's Corollary (Score:2)
Ha Ha. Only Serious. (Score:3, Insightful)
Hmmm, that got mod'ed mostly as "Funny", yet when I read it, chills ran up and down my spine.
I think there's rather more truth than not in the parent post. Remember, Microsoft owns that "copy of Windows" on that CD; you do not. Microsoft just lets you use it, for a fee. That's the deal, and they reserve the right to alter the deal at any point. That's what the EULA says, and the congress and the courts have largely agreed with them (or been pa
That second upgrade (Score:5, Funny)
second upgrade. [apple.com]
Heh. (Score:2)
Not to mention (Score:4, Informative)
My Monopoly (Score:2)
Does anyone believe that Microsoft would sell any copies of an OS that forced you to pay for a new copy just because you upgrade to a better computer, without the force of its monopoly? Probably because all the MS bloatware makes your old one run too slow.
MS abused its monopoly by illegally bundling Internet Explorer. And by anticompetitively blackmailing HW vendors i
windows activation (Score:5, Insightful)
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All this is, is an annoying way to "educate" (i use this lightly) people who don't know about how microsoft junk is being licensed. Aside for the phone call, you'll be able to do whatever with your CD... this is just for show more than anything else.
Imagine the lawsuits.... (Score:2)
Hmmm, how can we generate more revenue?
I know, we make it so that they can never re-install the OS on the same hardware without buying a new license.
Then we design in new security flaws (what? We don't need to design in new security flaws? They're already there? - cool - no extra work needed then) - wait for the operating system to fubar itself, and then collect another license fee when the user re-installs it.
Let's see - with a low estimate of 20 million users, at twice month re-insta
Now imagine a GPL v2 OS imposes the same (Score:2)
With DRM, it is possible to do this...
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Long Live Windows 2000, I guess (Score:3, Insightful)
It looks like forced activation and DRM is the wave of the future. MS gained their monopoly by creating an operating system (DOS and Windows up and including 2000) that can be ran on any old PC. MS used to not care about charging you for another license of Windows when you upgraded your PC multiple times; they figured that it was great that you were using Windows instead of OS/2, NEXTSTEP, DR-DOS, or the other alternatives at the time. Since they gained 95% market share, they repay you by implementing restrictive activation schemes that get worse with each release of Windows.
I say, no thanks. Me and thousands of other people will still hold on to our Windows 2000 disks. Even though I don't use Windows anymore (too bad Boot Camp for Mac doesn't support Windows 2000), I know plenty of people who haven't gone to XP because of this. Activation negatively inconviences (and sometimes even locks out) those who legally buy their software (no activation scheme is perfect); those who illegally obtain their software can just download a cracked version or a corporate version of it. I don't want treated as a pirate as a customer. But that is how MS wants to treat us. Oh well. I'm not buying any new versions of Windows or Office for this Mac; I'm sticking to Windows 2000 and Office 2000.
Viva Windows 2000!
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Just install on top of your borked XP system without reformatting.
I have all the live CD alternatives, but if you only have a Win2K disk you can still save your stuff.
How many upgrades does it take.. (Score:3, Insightful)
New algorithm (Score:4, Funny)
if ($windows_version = 'vista')
{
$pirated = true;
} else
{
$pirated = true;
}
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Well, then a Mac becomes my change ... (Score:2)
I've already seen Vista preview editions at work, and I'm underwhelmed by it. If they're gonna lock it down so that I can't legitimately replace borked hardware without them getting a cut, they'll get nothing out of me.
I'll run XP until they drop support for it, and I'll migrate to a
I'm having a hard time giving a rats ass (Score:2)
I for one am having in a hard time caring because I'm unlikely to run vista anytime soon, or have to support it. My primary environment is Linux, and while I do run Windows XP (at work), I do not depend on it. If they give me a new system at work with Vista on it, then I'll run it, but I won't spend my own money to buy a copy
No Biggie (Score:5, Informative)
It's not like the big Billy G has tapped into the line with a lie detector ready to call in a SWAT team or anything. Well, if he was, it was very convincing - anything's possible I suppose.
This is a real non-issue (Score:3, Informative)
Allowing one significant change for anyone is in fact more lenient than they were previously, as long as they continue to allow unlimited hardware changes for corporate users. For them to do otherwise would be crazy.
"The change of a single component multiple times (e.g. from video adapter A to video adapter B to video adapter C) is treated as a single change." - Microsoft [microsoft.com]
As long as the above still holds true, you could update your video card multiple times and it would still only register as that one significant change. If however, you also upgraded your soundcard it would register as a second change and would require reactivation.
"Approximately 2 percent of activation requests are due to hardware changes or other reactivations." - Microsoft [microsoft.com]
I'd wager that most people who are the kind of folks to upgrade their hardware also have corporate licensed editions of windows or are smart enough to know how to reload XP Pro or at least smart enough to pick up a phone and call Microsoft.
Just so I'm clear (Score:3, Interesting)
Tagging for this story (Score:3, Informative)
assholes, vista, microsoft, windows, drm (tagging beta)
Acts of God? (Score:3, Insightful)
Under this act of God, beyond my control, M$ would have required me to call and beg for a new key.
No thanks. It was overwhelming enough to purchase a tower, reinstall the OS and the apps, and recover from backups. And that was during a job hunt so the PC was critical to my career during a very stressful period. The last thing I needed is to deal with re-activating the OS.
My upgrade path after W2K will be Mac. I have no desire to jump through activation hoops. Brilliant M$, you've just reduced your monopoly on the PC OS market...!
Recent experience (Score:3, Interesting)
The motherboard in my son's PC went tits up, so he ordered an ASUS barebones box and an Athlon 64 CPU from NewEgg. We took everything else from his old eMachine chassis. (hey, it was a gift from his uncle)
Anyway, we booted from an original XP CD we've owned for years. The PC it was originally installed on has long since been salvaged for parts and is no more. We installed the OS, an SP2 CD I keep handy, then connected to the net to get another 68 updates and such. Windows Update did it's "Genuine Advantage" update and....validated the XP license with no problem.
I was prepared to browbeat an MS employee into realizing the original PC the license was installed on was like the snows of yesteryear, but it a non-event.
The box has been running for 2 weeks with no issues. It's been through at least one Windows Update pass since then with no alarms or MS Gestapo banging on the door, black helicopters circling, etc.
I would think a completely new system build (the eMachine came with a restore CD that only works on an eMachine) would have tripped an alarm for MS but that's apparently not the case.
Hopefully, Vista will be as well designed! LOL.
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