Hiring (Superstar) Programmers 570
Ross Turk wrote, "We've been looking for senior engineers to work on SourceForge.net for a while now, and it's been a lot more difficult than it was a few years ago. Has the tech market improved so much that working on a prominent website is no longer enough to attract the best talent? Is everyone else running into the same problems, or is it just here in the Valley and other high-tech corridors?" This is a question that I've seen coming in a lot; the economy has not picked up everywhere — so how are other people handling this? Going outside the traditional Valley/Route 128 corridors? Outsourcing? And how do you find people — beyond just using job boards? (Full disclosure: That's our job board thingie, as you probably have figured out.) Or do job boards alone work? Some people have been swearing up and down that CraigsList works — and there's always something to be said for nepotism.
craigslist is not good (Score:1, Interesting)
It got bad enough for me that I stopped looking on craigslist and anytime I go back just to check it out - it seems to not have changed. There are quite a few 'tech/programmer' based headhunters in the more computer savvy areas of the country, I'd give them a shot on top of the normal web based options.
Job Board Spam Sucks (Score:5, Interesting)
I have my resume up on monster -- clearly as a sysadmin. I get messages about insurance sales, modeling, marketing, and Amway-style multi-level-marketing jobs. Also, there are recruiters up there harvesting resumes, with no actual jobs. I got so mad that I had to do something about it -- so I did.
Recruiter-Rater [zhrodague.net] is a rate-your-recruiter type of website. Have good dealings with a recruter? Please post about it, we'd love to hear your success story. Got a recruiter repeatedly wasting your time? Post about that too. Bad recruiters need to be shamed out of existance, and good recruiters should see their commissions increase.
Seriously. I would get an email about a job in my area. I'd apply, send-in a resume, sometimes talk to the guy on the phone -- and never hear from them again, until they have another req, starting the cycle again.
I've been at this job-hunting game for a while, and just recently I've almost completely given up as a wage-slave, except that I still need money to live. Of course, being here in Pittsburgh certianly does *not* help, but it is easier to be broke and still live pretty well here, than it is to be broke and live in places like Boston.
All the smart people have left IT (Score:4, Interesting)
Because they could.
The best engineer I know left the profession during the last downturn. He was a doctor, so he returned to medicine.
I think a lot of other smart people changed profession.
It's the law of unintended consequences again.
Plenty of Great Jobs (Score:2, Interesting)
Most people are happy enough where they are--good enough pay, good enough benefits, and currently there is a lot of stability... it's hard to get people to want to make the effort to move unless they are Really excited about what you are doing and there is more than just a financial benefit to them. I think, at least right now, pay and benefits are important--but an interesting opportunity can pull the right people. Sounds like you are doing all the right things, it just takes a lot of time for people with good jobs to find a new opportunity when they aren't looking for it. Fact of the matter is, most awesome designers/developers are working on awesome projects and not browsing job boards.
Good luck.
Re:Hubris! (Score:3, Interesting)
Real, boring, bank type work is picking up, and although it is not very exciting, it is _very_ well paid.
A web start up needs to compete with that.
Re:All the smart people have left IT (Score:5, Interesting)
Ignoring a potential talent pool (Score:3, Interesting)
Time to up the H1-B quota again??
Programming puzzles (Score:2, Interesting)
Of course, for operations and other areas of the company, it's still hard to attract the right eyes.
I'm looking for part time (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Ignoring a potential talent pool (Score:3, Interesting)
the ibanks and hedge funds are taking us all ! (Score:1, Interesting)
Many close friends are now working for M$, Google, etc. but the fiercest hiring demand has actually been from the financial sector. Undergrads these days typically get 6-figure comp (first year) from the ibanks and hedge funds. The attrition rate is high, but those who thrive as traders can rise up to 7 to 8 figures in less than a decade. It's not quite up to the levels of Messrs. Page and Brin, but you can certainly secure a mortgage with that kind of cash
Re:Hubris! (Score:2, Interesting)
There's a very high turnover rate, and I believe the 50 - 100 (yes, 100) hour work weeks may have something to do with it.
Re:Hubris! (Score:3, Interesting)
FLAME ON!
IANA developer, but on the admin side, higher pay may be indicative of many factors including time and scope of responsibility. The factor to which I find a lot of lip service is paid is skill. I have worked for several companies that "hired me for my skills". The job descriptions were very particular with respect to skills required, and in some cases, my skills were tested prior to hiring. The scarcity of admins with my skillset drives up the price, which seems like basic economic stuff. The reality was that I was still expected to support and fix lots of stuff that was outside of my skillset, because the higher on the ladder the problem got, the less they care about skills and the more they care about money, as in how much money the problem is costing, or how much money they pay me. "It's a computer. Fix it."
Re:Hubris! (Score:2, Interesting)
What exactly does "competitive" mean? I almost always interpret it as meaning "average"--or just slightly above. And that's not enough to peak my interest at this stage of my career.
Re:Ignoring a potential talent pool (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course, the fact that you think that someone who's clearly advocating allowing more people into the country to work is in favor of illegal immigration pretty much proves you're an idiot in the first place.
Re:Dilbert covered this (of course) (Score:4, Interesting)
The message was clear, we only hire highly mediocre candidates.
Then they were shocked that when they offered a voluntary separation package 249 out of 251 IT employees volunteered. The two that didn't volunteer were a single mom and the only guy who had work from home privileges.
They had to change the VSP to take people with the most seniority first.
There was actually one case that I know of where the person who had the second highest seniority in a group bribed the guy in front of him by offering to pay him a portion of the separation package to let the second guy get out of the company!
Re:I dunno (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Hubris! (Score:2, Interesting)