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Boy Scouts Introduce Merit Badge For Not Pirating 731

The_Slaughter writes "The MPAA has recruited the boy scouts of America to do their dirty work. Scouts will now be able to learn a merit badge for anti-piracy related activities, including creating public service announcements urging others not to steal movies or music. No word yet on if that includes helping the MPAA file lawsuits against 80-year-old grandmothers."
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Boy Scouts Introduce Merit Badge For Not Pirating

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  • Scouts Honor.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MECC ( 8478 ) * on Friday October 20, 2006 @04:23PM (#16520897)
    "Scouts also must choose one activity from a list that includes visiting a movie studio to see how many people can be harmed by film piracy. They also can create public service announcements urging others not to steal movies or music." And complete a lobotomy. [idiom.com]

    Do they also have merit badges for not thinking independently? Or one for having your IQ reduced to a single digit and being converted to a near-mindless automaton?

  • by crabpeople ( 720852 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @04:24PM (#16520919) Journal
    "create public service announcements urging others not to steal movies or music"

    Its not stealing, since you are not depriving anyone of the thing. Unless this merit badge is for going into record stores and lifting cds. Somehow I doubt it.

    The editors should be more careful with their phraseology.

  • fair use (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 20, 2006 @04:24PM (#16520921)
    I'm guessing that fair use won't be part of the learning experience.
  • by gstoddart ( 321705 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @04:24PM (#16520925) Homepage
    This reminds me of the children in 1984 who were trained to turn anyone who may have comitted a thought-crime.

    I realize the Boy Scouts like to try to teach morals and the like, but it doesn't sit well that the *AA's would be able to create a new merit badge and start indoctrinating them.

    Errie.
  • by justinbach ( 1002761 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @04:26PM (#16520953) Homepage
    Merit badges are typically awarded for the completion of a task (hiking, camping, good works, &c), not for passively NOT doing something. Is there a merit badge for not smoking? How about for not cheating on exams?
    These qualities are important, sure, but to dangle a badge as a carrot for not doing something wrong seems a like it's missing the point. Boy Scouts have a code and moral values (including those that would keep you from pirating software, smoking, and cheating) are implicit therein; further bribery, especially in the form of badges, seems unwarranted.
  • I'm an eagle scout (Score:4, Insightful)

    by CrazyJim1 ( 809850 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @04:27PM (#16520971) Journal
    I think this is very inane.
  • Re:The Horror (Score:2, Insightful)

    by tddoog ( 900095 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @04:29PM (#16521001)
    Do you think the education provided by the MPAA will be even handed?
  • by CastrTroy ( 595695 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @04:29PM (#16521015)
    Well, the word steal predates any laws which may use the word, and make the act of stealing illegal. I can say you are stealing my intellectual property by not paying me for it's use. It wouldn't technically be theft, in the sense of the law, but it's still immoral.
  • Re:The Horror (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Endo13 ( 1000782 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @04:30PM (#16521031)
    Right. You just turn all your kids over to us and we'll explain to them EXACTLY how copyright laws work. Of course, we'll also just tell you the parts that make our 'cause' look good, but that's how it should be right?
  • Feedback (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Wellington Grey ( 942717 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @04:31PM (#16521045) Homepage Journal
    Putting the fair use argument aside for a moment, who thinks it's a good idea to reward people for what they should be doing anyway. Should I expect to be rewarded because I didn't shoplift today or commit murder?

    -Grey [wellingtongrey.net]
  • by MattGWU ( 86623 ) * on Friday October 20, 2006 @04:33PM (#16521073)
    Yes, it's called the "You don't HAVE to do any merit badges you don't want to do." merit badge. The one requirement is you DON'T DO THE BADGE. It's a total gimmie, it's great. Nobody is holding a gun to some kids head to do the badge.

    My prediction: If it's easy, scouts will do the badge. You don't have to believe in it, you just have to do it, and damn if there's nothing better than an easy merit badge for that extra Eagle palm or whatever.
  • by User 956 ( 568564 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @04:33PM (#16521083) Homepage
    it doesn't sit well that the *AA's would be able to create a new merit badge and start indoctrinating them.

    The boy scouts of today are the politicians of the future. I can see where the RIAA is going with this.
  • by Scrameustache ( 459504 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @04:38PM (#16521155) Homepage Journal
    Its not stealing, since you are not depriving anyone of the thing.
    The editors should be more careful with their phraseology.

    It's straight from the article.
    And more to the point, it's the exact doublespeak that the RIAA wants to drill into these kid's heads, using them to spread their propaganda, astroturf style.
  • ftfa (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Wellington Grey ( 942717 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @04:38PM (#16521163) Homepage Journal
    The patch shows a film reel, a music CD and the international copyright symbol, a "C" enclosed in a circle. The movie industry has developed the curriculum.

    Shouldn't the boy scouts decide what their badges are? This is like McD's making the health curriculum for a school.

    -Grey [wellingtongrey.net]
  • by curecollector ( 957211 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @04:39PM (#16521189)
    ...and I'm sure that if he hadn't recently passed away, one of my state's Democratic ex-Congressmen (Gerry Studds [dkosopedia.com]) would be interested as well.

    Why does this have to be a partisan issue instead of a cut and dry, "creepy old man" issue? Furthermore, what does this have to do with the BSA and the MPAA? Jeez.
  • by Demon-Xanth ( 100910 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @04:44PM (#16521263)
    This is f'ing BS. They're making a merit badge for doing PR work for an industry that is completely incompetant at doing thier own PR work.

    It's bad enough that MS hijacked the acronym "BSA".
  • by WilliamSChips ( 793741 ) <`moc.liamg' `ta' `ytinifni.lluf'> on Friday October 20, 2006 @04:44PM (#16521271) Journal
    Why does this have to be a partisan issue instead of a cut and dry, "creepy old man" issue?
    It's an election year for Congress, plus it's karmic retribution for the Lewinsky scandal.
  • by Score Whore ( 32328 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @04:47PM (#16521309)
    Sure you are depriving someone of something. You are depriving a number of people of having their expectation of being paid for offering their work being satisfied. Exactly like if you went to a store and stole a CD, it's not the CD they are feeling deprived of, it's the sale of that CD. Just like if you go to a barber and don't pay him, it's not his time you've stolen, it's the expectation that he'll be paid for his time that isn't being met. Just like when someone takes out a line of credit in your name, it's not your identity being stolen, it's the expectation that you are held accountable to what you do and not what someone else does that is violated.

    Businesses and people who offer services or products are not concerned with being deprived of things, it's being deprived of the sale of the thing.

    Get over the language games and talk about the actual issue.
  • by CowsAnonymous ( 697884 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @04:47PM (#16521319)
    This is pretty absurd. No doubt I have a new reason to write to the BSA.

    Luckily, the people that make these decisions are not the people that are leading individual troops. My Assistant Scoutmaster was a liberal radio columnist, far from the socialist "join the army" stereotype portrayed by some, and my actual Scoutmaster was often heard saying "I don't care what the requirements say". He'd rather the kids learn the material than blindly worship the step-by-step process if it meant skipping the crap so as to learn the meaty stuff. Of the three weekends spent doing the Computers merit badge, we might of discussed the "Is it permissible to accept a free copy of a computer game or program from a friend? Why or why not?" requirement for a total of three minutes.

    I'm strongly going to urge any sons I have in the future to join scouting, not only because it's where I met some of my best friends and was my first chance at taking a leadership position, but because it was just plain fun. However, I will also be the parent that attends the meeting, make sure that I agree with the way it's being run, and if not check out another troop. There are plenty around that one will "do it right", by my standards, and not by the book.
  • by gstoddart ( 321705 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @04:48PM (#16521327) Homepage
    I once heard a gay activist emphatically state that almost all child molesters were heterosexual

    I don't have any statistics one way or the other on that. Certainly, I often hear that these people are married and have children. Who is gay or not is up to them. If some people have an agenda whereby they want to define as many people as possible (or as few) as gay, that's their problem.

    My point is, this is not something which is representative of the community any more than the actions of a few priests are representative or Catholics, or the actions of Foley are representative of congress, or that blacks are more likely to commit crimes, or that Hispanics are probably illegal immigrants who are in gangs, or that all Muslims are terrorists, or that all Americans are gun toting fundamentalist rednecks. None of the preceding are fair generalizations to any of those communities.

    You can't go about painting an entire group of people with the same brush. But, this is slashdot, where it's more expedient to do so.

    Cheers
  • merit badges (Score:2, Insightful)

    by bobbonomo ( 997543 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @04:48PM (#16521329) Homepage
    Que? Slashdot. News for nerds. Stuff that matters. This story does not match on both counts and neither do most of the responses to it. C'mon guys. NEWS for nerds. STUFF that matters.
  • by TheAxeMaster ( 762000 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @04:49PM (#16521345)
    My mother used to say (and I suspect many did) that if I put half the effort of getting out of doing something into getting it done, I'd be done with it. I think the MPAA needs to listen to moms everywhere and put some energy into creating a business model that actually works with the changing times, not against it.
  • by Mateo_LeFou ( 859634 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @04:55PM (#16521453) Homepage
    So do you think there should be a merit badge about not-breaking every law, or just the most important ones (murder/rape/filesharing)?
  • by jbarr ( 2233 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @04:59PM (#16521513) Homepage
    The Scout oath states (emphasis added)...

            On my honor I will do my best
           
    To do my duty to God and my country
            and to obey the Scout Law;
            To help other people at all times;
            To keep myself physically strong,
            mentally awake, and
    morally straight

    So does this not imply a scout's obedience to governing laws, including copyright laws? Isn't providing this kind of merit badge redundant by simply reinforcing what the scout already promises? As I recall, the merit badges I earned for my Eagle Scout rank were meant to be skill-related...
  • by Dobeln ( 853794 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:00PM (#16521519)
    ...in misleading summary shocker! Keep watching for the latest developments! Seriously, you almost had me with that Battlefield 2142 "spyware" thing the other day, but this time I was more vigilant. Muahahahah!
  • by 644bd346996 ( 1012333 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:01PM (#16521547)
    Your comment almost perfectly hits the mark. The only thing is that there are still a few troops that accomplish the original purpose. They are actively being repressed by the higher levels, but there are ways to deal with them. It is only through the efforts of a few extremely patient and caring men, mostly Eagles, that some troops can stick to BP's ideals. Unfortunately, these men are almost entirely absent from the organization above the troop level.
  • by CheshireCatCO ( 185193 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:01PM (#16521557) Homepage
    I'm an Eagle Scout and I agree wholeheartedly. I'm proud of my Eagle and had a great experience in my (small) troop back in the day, but I refuse to donate any time or money to the BSA these days. Mostly, this is due to what I feel is an unforgivably intolerant stance towards gays, athiests, and agnostics and their almost-interolable exclusion of girl younger than Explorer-ages. On top of that -- as if it weren't enough -- there's crap like this. They really need to re-evaluate what they're doing and why. They've come dangerously close to being a knee-jerk, right-wing indoctrination organization. The program is still good at its core and lord knows kids need a way to get outside and learn life skills to supplement what's taught in schools, but I fear that the politics of the people running the show are getting in the way far too much.
  • by c6gunner ( 950153 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:03PM (#16521579) Homepage
    Difference is, Clinton lied on numerous occasions.

    Only die-hard evangelist Christians really gave a shit that Clinton had an affair. Granted, people with a political agenda would have hammered him even if he'd told the truth from the get-go, however, I for one had no problem with it. I think cheating on your wife is an immoral thing to do, but I understand why some people might do it, and it doesn't really speak to his competence as a president. Lying under oath on the other hand is something I have a huge problem with. I think (although I can't offer any evidence) that most people felt the same way. If he had told the truth from the beginning, I would have defended him instead of calling for his resignation.
  • by Maxo-Texas ( 864189 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:05PM (#16521601)
    Actually, more likely to be like the kids in "Jesus Camp".

    You get to people young enough- you define who they are and what they feel is right and wrong.
  • by R2.0 ( 532027 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:07PM (#16521633)
    Perhaps you missed my argument- my criticism was that, in his desire to combat the stereotype taht all gays are potential child molesters, the activist made an equally outrageous claim that homosexuals are almost NEVER child molesters. He seemed to be implying that a man who is sexually attracted to other men is somehow immune to being attracted to boys.

    You can't fight stereotypes with equally outrageous claims to the contrary - it just makes the arguer look stupid and diminishes his real, legitimate point.
  • by jandrese ( 485 ) <kensama@vt.edu> on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:07PM (#16521643) Homepage Journal
    To be fair, most troop leaders are average guys who are more interested in teaching kids how to tie knots and go camping. It's the higher ups who have gone completely off their rocker. I was a boy scout all the way until 18 and even then there were plenty of signs that the higher ups were not quite in touch with the real world. They used to have this funny requirement that the boys must believe in a monotheistic diety of some sort, although they were careful not to actually say "Christian God" outright. Down at the troop level that requirement was quietly swept under the rug. It's a shame the scouts have gotten saddled with this, because it is a great organization for teaching children leadership skills (patrol leaders have quite a big of responsibility) and a variety of useful skills for life. Everybody in the world should know how to tie a Bowline and Taut-line hitch, those two knots are invaluable in daily life.

    I guess the kids also get a lesson in how messed up upper management can be...

    Either way, no matter how messed up the Boy Scouts are, they still have nothing on the Girl Scouts. Talk about an organization that doesn't know what it's doing. They're still not sure if they should be teaching girls how to cook, how to camp, or how to not speak unless spoken to. It doesn't help that girls interested in the more exciting parts of scouting can join the Boy Scouts via the Venture program.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:09PM (#16521665)
    and bush hasnt lied?
  • by swillden ( 191260 ) * <shawn-ds@willden.org> on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:10PM (#16521683) Journal

    However, I feel that the scout organization has fallen so far from its original intended roots that it's nothing but a special interest shadow of its former self

    I was a boy scout, got my Eagle, have been a Cub Scout leader for the last few years and just recently became the Varsity Team Coach (Varsity is the 14-15 year-old boys), so I have a very good view of what Scouting actually is, as opposed to what it appears to be in the press.

    My take is that your perception is driven primarily by the special interests who have decided to attack scouting based on the two tenets of the program they don't like: homosexuality and religion. The scouting organizations actually have very little problem with either of those, and spend no time at all worrying about them. The prohibition on homosexual and pedophile leaders is very sensible, in my opinion, and the religious position is both open (must profess faith in *some* god) and not really enforced.

    Scouting is a great program that does a tremendous amount of good. It's precisely because it's such a valuable program that people who object to a couple of its tenets like to attack it. Don't take their attacks to mean that the program has changed.

    Anyway, I need to get back to planning next year's High Adventure camp. We're going to do a week-long, 100-mile rafting trip, most of it through the inaccessible canyons of the Colorado River above the Grand Canyon. I'm actually not so much planning it as putting together the framework for planning it, because the boys will do the real planning themselves.

    That's what scouting is about. Self-sufficiency, outdoor skills, teamwork, preparedness and the moral strength and integrity that are developed by doing hard things in a place that no one can cover for you. Oh, and fun. Lots of fun.

    Doesn't stop people from trying to use Scouting to score political points, but we try to ignore those people.

  • by Score Whore ( 32328 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:13PM (#16521723)
    Without getting too political, Bush has lied under oath as well. He swore to uphold the constitution, but then ordered that people be held without access to courts, attorneys, etc. It went to the Supreme Court and was deemed that those orders violated the constitutional rights of the people being held and the Bush administration then said "ok, we'll stop doing that." But the thing is, just because Bush felt that it was constitutional doesn't mean that it's OK until a court says otherwise. It means that he was in violation of those constitutional rights all along. Bush should be impeached for breaking his oath.
  • by Pollux ( 102520 ) <speter AT tedata DOT net DOT eg> on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:13PM (#16521725) Journal
    God forbid the Boy Scouts teach kids how to obey the law!

    As an Eagle Scout, I can say first-hand that the Boy Scouts DOES teach scouts how to obey the law. Here are a few examples:

    • One of the twelve points of the Scout Law (a moral code which all scouts pledge to follow and uphold) is that every scout is obedient, to leaders, and to the law.

    • Scouts, as they work towards their Eagle Scout rank, are required to obtain the Citizenship in the Community, Nation, and World merit badges (three separate badges) that teach scouts how the law is created, legal methods in changing and upholding law, as well as what it means to be good citizens in the community.

    However, I am personally sad to see special interest groups who are imposing a political agenda upon scouts. Once upon a time, scouting was about kids discovering themselves. While there was a core set of requirements which every scout was expected to achieve as they worked their way up the ranks (the basic skills of camping, first aid, being a leader...), there were hundreds of merit badges which scouts could work towards and earn, depending on what interests they had. A great example of this was when Spielberg, himself an Eagle Scout, helped create the Cinematography merit badge, for any scout who may have an interest in learning more about movie making. Looking back, the most amazing thing about scouts was all the opportunities I had to learn about new things, as well as all the people who willingly worked so hard to offer me those opportunities.

    Nowadays, I feel more and more that special-interest groups, including but not limited to the RIAA, are seeing scouting as a vehicle for "indoctrinating" their agendas onto future leaders of America (and believe you me when I say that Eagle Scouts truly are leaders). I was asked last year by a parent if I could be a merit badge counselor for the Computer merit badge. As the tech coordinator at my school, I thought it would be a great chance to catch-up with boy scouts again. I opened up the merit-badge book, and lo-and-behold, one of the requirements to obtain the merit badge was for scouts to be able to understand and give examples of piracy, whether it was burning CDs or P2P. This had NOTHING to do with learning about computers, how they work, learning about how to create documents, spreadsheets, and databases, and programming a computer. This was a political agenda, and it didn't sit well with me.

    Scouts are certainly educated every day about how to be obedient to the rules and be good citizens of this country. But I want scouts to find and grow their own ideals, not have them spoon-fed by the RIAA.
  • by Aram Fingal ( 576822 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:14PM (#16521731)
    Those belt loops were called "Skill Awards." For those who weren't in Boy Scouts, skill awards are sort of lesser versions of merit badges and they are required for the lower ranks. Merit badges are much more involved. I suspect you're right, the article probably has it wrong and the anti-piracy thing isn't really a merit badge at all.
  • by khayman80 ( 824400 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:15PM (#16521739) Homepage Journal
    Businesses and people who offer services or products are not concerned with being deprived of things, it's being deprived of the sale of the thing.
    Under your definition, it seems like I'm "stealing" from a music store if I tape record a song from the radio and don't feel the need to buy the CD later. They're being deprived of a sale either way, right?

    Needless to say, I don't agree with this reasoning. When I copy a music file, I gain music but the music company doesn't lose anything physical at all, despite their claims to being deprived of a potential sale. This is a purely hypothetical loss on their part, based on the assumption that if I couldn't get the music via mininova, that I'd have no choice but to buy it at full price, in which case they've lost the sticker price of the CD. I think this reasoning is flawed for several reasons:

    (1): Some music I would buy for $5 or listen to if it's free, but I wouldn't pay $20 for the CD. In some instances, music that I would pirate I would not buy, even if I was unable to obtain the music through P2P networks. This means that in a situation like this, the music company is only "losing" the amount of money that I would actually pay for the music. The problem is that the RIAA is treating their product as though it's a commodity, like it's water... and we have no choice but to either buy it from them, steal it, or die of thirst.

    (2): I could just as easily buy the CD from a friend or from a store that sells used CDs, in which case the RIAA has lost nothing.

    In short, I believe that you are correct that being deprived of a sale constitutes stealing, especially in the cases you mentioned. What I'm disputing is that copyright infringement necessarily deprives anyone of a sale.

  • by pyser ( 262789 ) * on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:19PM (#16521813)
    I think I'll substitute the "Make a Public Service Announcement" for a 200-word essay on Why the Digital Consumer's Bill of Rights is a good idea"

    Since you are already a MBC, you understand that you may not add to, delete or change the requirements. If the requirement were to say "Make a public service announcement", that's exactly what the candidate should do, not write an essay. How you go about it is between the MBC and the scout, but one requirement cannot be substituted for another unless it is specifically allowed.
  • by Maxo-Texas ( 864189 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:22PM (#16521853)
    No.

    Jesus. This is such a broken record.

    to use YOUR article for the example.

    It's like watching the barber cut someone's hair, and cutting your own hair and he sues you because he's a magical barber like magicians and expects to get paid for the REST OF HIS LIFE and 50 YEARS after HE DIES for cutting hair in a PARTICULAR pattern and way with particular tools.

    Not to mention that 99% of the stuff downloaded would never have been purchased at the desired price.
    Not to mention that 80% of the stuff will probably never be listened too or only listened to once.
    Not to mention that the 20% that is listened to will probably expand the market.
    Not to mention that lots of people are as moral as they afford to be and when they make more money, they'll buy the products if they like them since they want the "real" thing.
    Not to mention the products that you *can't BUY period* and can only get these ways.

    Seriously- if barbers were like musicians, the fact that they wet the right side of your head, combed it back, then combed a row and clipped it with no.6 scissors would be equivalent to a "chord" and they could sue other barbers for cutting hair using the same sequence of "chords" and ever barber who invented a new haircut (like "the bob cut" or the "monica cut" or the "shag cut" could copyright it.

    Then they could sue the hell out of anyone who cut hair that way (including people who cut their own hair) and they would add a .25 cent fee to any hair cut of that style for the rest of their lives and for 50 years after they die which would be paid to a big "hair cut production company" that had rights to that style of hair cut.

    Why are musicians SO MUCH better than a barber who invites a new style of hair cut?
  • by c6gunner ( 950153 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:25PM (#16521897) Homepage
    There's a big difference between saying "no I did not have relations with this woman" while knowing you did, and saying "I swear to uphold the constitution", and then doing something which in your opinion doesn't violate the constitution and then having someone else determine that it does. One is intentional, the other accidental. One is a deliberate lie, the other is an accidental failure to keep a promise.

    Unless, ofcourse, you can show that Bush deliberately set out to violate the Constitution.
  • by monoqlith ( 610041 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:25PM (#16521909)
    I can't let this one go. Republican strategists tried for all 8 years of Clinton's presidency to nail him, they hated him so. The fact that the most credible charge they could come up with was lying about the Lewinsky affair(which was, I admit, stupid and unnecessary) is a testament to his relative integrity as a politician. He was under such heavy scrutiny from the Republican congress that they would have nailed him to the cross had he done something else even remotely as morally reprehensible. But none of preceding accusations levied against him held water, so they were left with the stupid Lewinsky tapes. This is not to excuse him, but to simply show that we once had a competent and relatively honest creature for our president.

    This all lies in contrast, of course, to our current president, whose resignation you apparently aren't calling for. He hasn't been held accountable for a single false, misleading, or outright deceptive public statement, of which there are plenty to cite. Some say that these lies have directly resulted in as many as half a million deaths. The only reason he has gotten away with them is because he has encountered virtually no resistance or scrutiny from Congress, and has skillful deceptive tactictians who, in a very real, cynical, Machiavellian sense, have artfully deceived the entire world, America included, into turning over as much power as possible to them and their cronies. Heavy accusations, I know. But unlike many of the Republican accusations against Clinton, these [bushwatch.com] hold [bushlies.net] water [amazon.com].

    So what I suppose you are really complaining about is that Clinton got caught.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:26PM (#16521921)
    Why do people lump homosexuals and pedophiles into the same group?

    As an adult hetrosexual male, do you have the desire to fondle a female child?
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:27PM (#16521939)
    My point is, this is not something which is representative of the community any more than the actions of a few priests are representative or Catholics, or the actions of Foley are representative of congress, or that blacks are more likely to commit crimes, or that Hispanics are probably illegal immigrants who are in gangs, or that all Muslims are terrorists, or that all Americans are gun toting fundamentalist rednecks. None of the preceding are fair generalizations to any of those communities.

    However, many of those allegations are fair to the leaders of their respective communities. The Catholic Church has covered up the actions of a few priests (all the way to the top - they swear an oath to protect the church, above an oath to protect children), the Republican leadership may have covered up the actions of Foley, and certainly leaders of several Islamic countries have said such things as "death to Israel! kill $PERSON_X!", and many of our own politicians have encouraged the gun-toting fundamentalist redneck in all of us so we will be easy to control.

  • by Vainglorious Coward ( 267452 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:28PM (#16521953) Journal
    It's straight from the article. And more to the point, it's the exact doublespeak that the RIAA wants to drill into these kid's heads

    Indeed, the MPAA-developed "curriculum [mpaa.org]" begins :

    Intellectual Property is no different than physical property

    Intellectual dishonesty is no different than child abuse

  • by Maxo-Texas ( 864189 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:34PM (#16522021)
    And how about when something is legal and moral (copying "It's a wonderful Life") and then some big corporation comes in and makes it illegal?

    How about a song that's legal to copy-- but the same song sold in a "reissued collection" has a new copyright so it is not legal to copy?

    This really applies to old cartoons big time. They are legal via certain paths- but not via other paths. in some of them, the music is legal and then when they are *reissued* the cartoon studio purposely re-records the EXACT same music and lays it back over the cartoon so now it has modern copyrights which will extend another 50 years?

    How can you be morally upright and true when you are dealing with incredibly scummy people who bribe congressmen and corrupt government?
  • by ThisIsNotMyHandel ( 1013943 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:35PM (#16522049)
    This just makes me sick. The MPAA says they are losing billions of dollars. I call bull shit on that. People are still flocking to buy DVDs. People are still going to the theaters. Maybe if they made quality movies that are reasonably priced they would get more support. It is not as if they are losing billions of dollars. They are just making less billions of dollars if that makes since.
  • Eagle Scout (Score:5, Insightful)

    by CherniyVolk ( 513591 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:40PM (#16522111)

    I'm not an Eagle Scout; more by choice than anything. Years ago, I took a honest interest in scouting, but was very disappointed in the whole scheme. While some might assert that scouting isn't supposed to be a focus on survival skills, why else for all the survivalist training such as cooking without stove, camping with minimal supplies, hunting etc.? OK, so there are much better clubs to join that can better teach you how to eat dirt, weeds and to build a sheltor out of leaves and bark... but I was still rather annoyed at how little the Boy Scouts prepared a young adult for if they did get lost in the woods and had to get by a few days.

    Looking back on those days, I realize that the Boy Scouts is heavily capitalist, despite any hopes a young scout might have for actually learning something for outdoor life. I remember the joy of seeing the Boy Scout emblem on my new portable stove, knife, compas etc. It never really dawned on me till after the fact, the Boy Scouts were actually far more mainstream than what people might expect. For a real life comparison, they are like the Air Force with air conditioned, reinforced tents in "war" rather than the Marines left to cover up with whatever they might, their jackets, a rock... anything but no air conditioner. I also came to realize everything in the Scouts was geared towards making me think like a malible consumer. A consumer which even if he isn't "sold" by advertisement, will still buy whatever is in the advertisement. A consumer who thinks that name brand is everything (does it have the Boy Scout Emblem!?). The dangers in this, is also an intiment involvment with the authorities behind the hype, and I assert no organization, no company should be above either the People or the Government. It is often in Capitalist Nations that people tend to bag on the government and forgive the Company without considering the fact that all their horrors were becuase of the Company rather than the Government; America doesn't go to war becuase of public support, but becuase of entire industry wide consensus (A lot of private/public companies making money off of our campaign in the Gulf and that money is not going to expand Middle Class. This is fact.).

    Yeah, I learned how to pitch a tent, tie a few knots, and clean a wound. But, honestly, I could have figured that out along the way anyways... the depth of how much they teach in the Boy Scouts I believe is a hidden agenda as well. "You're too stupid to do much else, and trust Big Business and it's ability to make sure you won't ever have to decide which flower or weed you can eat. If you do end up in the woods, your car broke down and left you stranded becuase of Government regulations. In the meantime buy this handy Boy Scout Portable Stove, Boy Scout Portable Water Purification Kit and Boy Scout Compas to help tide you over till Big Business will rescue you."

    The Boy Scouts is really a political/economic condition course for a particular ideology. The fact is, most capitalists embracing nations have Youth Programs all, in some way, dubbed as "scouts". Communists, tend to go for "pioneers". They all expose simple survival aspects which more give an impression of the phenomenal attraction to "Tips'n'Tricks", while underneath the stage tricks and simple wood carving classes... there's a political, philosophical, economic lesson vehemently pushed and ingrained in the childs mind.

    Sure you get a letter from the President for making Eagle Scout. Those that are trying to push their message are often proud of their efforts; yes, it's worth something to put on your resume, there are benefits adding to real life incentive to encourage parents to toss their children into these programs.

    Bottom line. I didn't learn all that much while in the Boy Scouts. If you went against the grain you were punished for it. For example, most of the kids in my district ran around with State Fair, Stainless Steal, Rambo "Survival Knives"... it seemed the ONLY non-Boy Scout peace of gear authorized for use du
  • by schwaang ( 667808 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:40PM (#16522115)
    My first reaction was like that. It seems like Scouting, which I admire, is being misused for propaganda (other than the obsolete proto-militarism that it was created for).

    But after thinking about it, this IS an interesting merit-badge subject because it involves both something relevant to today's kids (MP3s) AND an issue of ethics, which is a strong point of Scouting.

    Ethics come most into play when the temptation is high and the risk seems low. Piracy is a great example. So it's a teachable moment for ethics, which aren't taught explicitly in many places these days.

    Of course, if the whole thing comes packaged by the ??AA then it will suck, because it won't question the ethics of the laws themselves.
  • by jZnat ( 793348 ) * on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:41PM (#16522129) Homepage Journal
    One is a deliberate lie, and the other has set us back hundreds of years.

    Yeah, I completely see how perjury is far more severe than shitting on the US Constitution on a daily basis while in the federal government.
  • by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:41PM (#16522135) Homepage Journal
    think cheating on your wife is an immoral thing to do, but I understand why some people might do it, and it doesn't really speak to his competence as a president. Lying under oath on the other hand is something I have a huge problem with.

    I don't think that lying under oath is wrong in all situations, especially since if you don't take the oath they just throw the proverbial book at you. This is a case in which they were asking Clinton questions that were none of their fucking business. Answering them would have disgraced not only Clinton, but also his wife and his lover, not that she was too worried about disgrace - she was only concerned about money once the whole thing came to light.

    An old, old concept of honor is that you cannot reasonably be held to an oath made under duress of force, which is precisely what we're talking about here.

  • by c6gunner ( 950153 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:42PM (#16522153) Homepage
    "If there was *any* question, he should have consulted his staff, or the court, BEFORE he decided."

    Do you seriously beleive he didn't consult his staff?

    "If he is such a "man of faith" (as he's blabbed about time and again), it should have been against his belief system to torture, hold people without due process, etc, in the first place."

    Not really. What you call "torture" has was done in many past conflicts without anyone raising a peep. And holding "illegal combatants" indeffinitely isn't a violation of any laws. I suppose you would have preferred that we just execute them, since the Geneva Conventions say it's ok?

    "I think the "stupid look" he portrays is just a cover for someone nearly as insane as Sadam, Hitler, etc. "

    Well. You're certainly entitled to your opinion.
  • by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:43PM (#16522161) Homepage Journal
    There's a big difference between saying "no I did not have relations with this woman" while knowing you did, and saying "I swear to uphold the constitution", and then doing something which in your opinion doesn't violate the constitution and then having someone else determine that it does. One is intentional, the other accidental.

    Oh, it's all become clear to me now! Bush accidentally ordered and approved of illegal wiretaps against citizens of the United States! Bush has been accidentally allowing people to be incarcerated and held without trial! Silly me! I guess he just slipped.

    The only thing more offensive than a politician willing to tread all over our freedoms in order to make a buck is the apologists who excuse all of his wrongdoing because it fits their political agenda.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:45PM (#16522189)
    The original copyright laws were socialist in nature as the constitutional purpose was the promote science and art, by allowing limited publishing monopolies.
    But, as the limits kept being extended/extinguished, the publishing monopolies became something that was treated more like property,
    and something of a an artificial "capitalist" market did appear to form.

    But note that after the point when the monopoly no longer serves any innovative purpose, this is a complete artificial government monopoly, with no more purpose/value than allowing someone to "own" the color red or allowing someone to patent the layout of the solor system.

  • Funny and shameful (Score:3, Insightful)

    by stephantom ( 919445 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:49PM (#16522235) Homepage
    Being a member of the scouts and an activist for the piracy movement all at once I don't welcome the decision of the BSA to join forces with the MPAA/RIAA/whatever. Scouting is ment to communicate, exchange and explore culture on an international level. The reason why the scouts could become such a huge movement was - and ever will be - cooperation and communication with other people in other regions/countries. Killing down ways to freely (and anonymously) share our culture is in no way compatible with even the most basic ideas of scouting, as I see them. Everyone can rest assured that we scouts are free human being who were taught to think for themselves. We believe in critical thinking, at least most of us do.
  • Bullshit, asshole. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by TheNoxx ( 412624 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:50PM (#16522247) Homepage Journal
    Just how, exactly, does an inquiry into a land deal end up with questions about sexual tendencies?

    So you have a problem with him lying about something that the trial in question had absolutely nothing to do with? Even though you would have done EXACTLY THE SAME FUCKING THING AND SO WOULD EVERY OTHER MAN ON EARTH?

    I've fucking had it with you hypocritical, uneducated Republican shitheels hamming it up on Slashdot, as if you had one fucking ounce of moral fiber in your being.
  • by CGameProgrammer ( 650971 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:54PM (#16522313) Homepage
    Person A buys a laptop:
    - Dell gets $$$
    - Person A gets a laptop


    Person B wants a laptop. He steals it from Person A:
    - Dell does not get any more money
    - Person A loses the laptop they paid for
    - Person B gets a laptop


    Person A buys a CD:
    - Artist gets $$$
    - Person A gets music


    Person A rips the CD and uploads the contents to a file-sharing service. Person B downloads it:
    - Artist gets no money
    - Person A still has the music
    - Person B also has music


    As you can see, the creator getting no money in both examples, but in the first example Person A loses his item, while in the second scenario it's Person A that's actually allowing Person B to download a copy. Person A is the pirate, not person B.
  • by orzetto ( 545509 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @05:56PM (#16522353)
    Just like if you go to a barber and don't pay him, it's not his time you've stolen, it's the expectation that he'll be paid for his time that isn't being met.

    In this case, you would have stolen a service, not a ware, and it is still stealing because the barber had to do work for that instance of the service. However, if you could somehow download a good shave and haircut every morning, and a barber sued you because of that, then you would have a similarity to IP infringement. And I can imagine the world laughing at a barber trying to prevent people from shaving themselves and requiring them to come to his shop.

    Just like when someone takes out a line of credit in your name, it's not your identity being stolen,

    This is even simpler than the previous example, this is outright theft out of my pocket because I receive a direct damage. Violating IP is not directly damaging anyone, though one may argue about the indirect effects.

    IP is different from material property in that it can be endlessly multiplied. It's like bakers and fishermen suing Jesus Christ for stealing their bread and fish.

  • by Doomstalk ( 629173 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @06:06PM (#16522463)
    Boy Scouts are in troops. Cub Scouts are the one's that have packs.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 20, 2006 @06:10PM (#16522525)
    The prohibition on homosexual and pedophile leaders is very sensible

    That sounds a lot like my organization, which has a ban on blacks and murderers. Quite sensible.
  • by HiThere ( 15173 ) * <charleshixsn@@@earthlink...net> on Friday October 20, 2006 @06:10PM (#16522537)
    People keep saying that.

    Voltaire was raised by the Jesuits, and people keep saying that.

    Adolph Schicklgruber grew up as a Jew. And people keep saying that.

    Statistically it may be true, but frequently there comes a time when a person decides to define himself by violently rejecting (some part of) what he was taught. The more coercively it was shoved down his throat, the more violent the reaction.
  • by sfjoe ( 470510 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @06:19PM (#16522659)
    It seems rather obvious to me... because the potential sexual interest, particularly between the leader and the older boys, may interfere in a variety of ways, some mild, some severe.

    I think this statement illustrates the homophobia in our society in general and Scouts in particular. For example, few people would raise an eyebrow at a heterosexual male coaching a high school girl's basketball team. Yet somehow gay men are supposedly unable to control themselves when around young men. I am reminded one time when a gay friend of mine was presented with this issue by a homophobe who was deathly afraid he would get cruised if he was arounf gay men. My friend told him, "You know, none of you straight men are nearly as hot and irresistible as you think you are".

  • Memories. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by An Onerous Coward ( 222037 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @06:29PM (#16522775) Homepage
    Back when Napster was still an interesting thing, my mom (a lifelong scouter) asked me where I'd gotten a bunch of oldies music. Here's how I remember the conversation:

    "It's called Napster. It's a place where you can download free music off the Internet."

    "Is it legal?"

    "Not really. They'll probably have it shut down in a month or two."

    "Well, hurry and get what you can."

    My mom is as honest a person as I know. I just don't see this merit badge winning a whole lot of hearts and minds.
  • by Dunbal ( 464142 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @06:30PM (#16522781)
    The scouts ask you to take your religion....whatever it is....to be one of the top things in your life.

          Provided you actually have a religion and aren't an atheist. Because atheists' beliefs don't count. They're not worthy of respect.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 20, 2006 @06:32PM (#16522823)
    Only in "backward" America Scouting is still separated into gender... BSA vs. WAGGGS. The rest of the world is mixed gender Scouting, except for a few real third-world places. And to prevent issues of sexual relationships between (male/female/gay/lesbian) leaders and the boys and girls, we only accept asexual leaders... Yeah right...
  • by Chanc_Gorkon ( 94133 ) <<moc.liamg> <ta> <nokrog>> on Friday October 20, 2006 @06:44PM (#16523005)
    Actually, these councils and troops who do come out anti gay and making you be a Christian (NOT a national policy by any means) are not actually following the TRUE scouting principles. Making anti gay remarks or remarks against any person is not good scouting behavior. The only thing that the scout law asks of scouts is that they put their religion at a high level of importance....whatever it is. You CAN say they ask that you believe in god.....not the Christian God, the Jew God or Allah....GOD. The only people who may have an issue is atheists and your post advertises this well. Atheists, Gay Scouts and others should not be turned away. Also, as I am a leader now, there's NO WHERE on the form where it asks your sexual orientation. It does ask that you make a commitment to a religious faith and anything concerning religion in the scouts is non sectarian. Also, as the BSA is also a part of World Scouting, there's no rule in the BSA that states you MUST be a Christian. They just ask that you hold a religious belief. Don't believe me? Read the leadership application: http://www.scouting.org/forms/28-501D.pdf [scouting.org]

    BSA gets a bad rap because of some councils that have some ass hats running them.
  • by crawling_chaos ( 23007 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @06:52PM (#16523103) Homepage
    I can only hope that every Bush voter has a friend or loved one maimed, murdered, or mutilated by the violence Bush stirred up in the Middle East with this unneeded war.

    Well you had me agreeing with you right up until the point you wrote this bullshit. You're a pretty sorry excuse for a human being if you really believe that. Did you ever think that those innocents you are wishing harm upon might not have agreed with the idea of the war either? Or do you just consider them "collateral damage" making you no better than the man you condemn?

  • by swillden ( 191260 ) * <shawn-ds@willden.org> on Friday October 20, 2006 @06:54PM (#16523125) Journal

    According to the statistics at least 10% of those women may be Homosexual, so whats your point?

    Homosexual girls' coaches also don't get to keep their jobs, or at least have to deal with restrictions like not entering the girls' locker room while the girls are changing.

    Sometimes when we don't see things its because we don't want to see them, not that they are not there.

    And sometimes when we do see things it's because we want to see them, not that they are there.

  • BS (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Dr Floppy ( 898439 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @07:01PM (#16523193)
    As an Eagle scout, I can guarantee that the only reason anyone would get this badge is to make a joke about it. They wont be able to sell the book and it will drop into history.
  • by Peter La Casse ( 3992 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @07:58PM (#16523861)
    They just ask that you hold a religious belief.

    As an atheist I don't see this as an acceptable requirement. It is discrimination.

    If necessary you could point out that atheism is a religious belief.

  • Re:I PLEDGE.... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by NoMaster ( 142776 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @10:13PM (#16524851) Homepage Journal
    IMHO
    Well, it's just as well your name isn't Karl Marx [wikipedia.org] or Friedrich Engels [wikipedia.org], isn't it?

    (You really should read their books; they're much more interesting than you might believe, and you might even learn something! For example, that the various Open Source models - yes, even the ones that allow such attached "capitalist" trappings as Red Hat or MySQL - are much much closer to Marx & Engels' concepts than anything seen before.

    The "dictatorship of the proletariat", the bit that everyone seems to get stuck on and hung up over, is itself merely one (Marx thought inevitable; Engels wasn't so sure...) stepping stone on the path to Communism

    Read the books, and you might come away with the feeling that Linux itself is an expression of one of those stepping-stones...)

  • by Firehed ( 942385 ) on Friday October 20, 2006 @11:07PM (#16525221) Homepage
    Agreed. I didn't bring up being an Eagle because it was largely irrelevant, but the required badges are certainly more involved than Basketry (which I earned no less than five times in a single week of summer camp). Several of the badges require a minimum of ninety days involvement (personal fitness comes to mind, though I'm sure there were others).

    I won't get concerned until the "Respect for Intellectual Property" badge becomes Eagle-required. At which point I'll personally go down to headquarters and find out what the hell's going on, and tell them to get back to their proper (ie, founding) values. Scout's Honor.
  • Re:I PLEDGE.... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by WWWWolf ( 2428 ) <wwwwolf@iki.fi> on Saturday October 21, 2006 @05:26AM (#16526817) Homepage

    The way I see it, copyright is "communist" in that it's supposed to primarily be a mechanism to control corporate greed, i.e., "you have a temporary limited control over your (or your company's) intellectual property, but note that it's only limited and only temporary - you cannot hold complete and utter control over your creation, and your exclusive rights will expire one day, liberating it for all to use."

    Of course, the corporations don't exactly like this shiny outlook and are busy trying to erode whatever rights the consumer has and extending the terms toward perpetuity...

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