Visa Cuts Off AllOfMp3.com 394
denebian devil writes "On the heals of allofmp3.com's press conference trying to clean up its image, Visa has suspended its credit card service to allofmp3.com. From the article "[Allofmp3 is] no longer permitted to accept Visa cards," said Simon Barker, a Visa International spokesman. "The action we've taken is in line with legislation passed in Russia and international copyright law."
Almost simultaneously, allofmp3.com has announced that it is shifting over to an ad-supported model. For those who don't want to (or can't) buy allofmp3's DRM-free music, they are providing DRM-laden music that can be played only within a restricted player provided by the website."
For everything you want to buy... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:For everything you want to buy... (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:For everything you want to buy... (Score:5, Informative)
alltunes is also shut off (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15323093/ [msn.com]
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Chronopay only takes:
Mastercard
Diners
JCB
Maestro / Solo / Switch / STB
No VISA
Re:For everything you want to buy... (Score:5, Informative)
XROST? (Score:3, Interesting)
I saw the XROST option on there a while ago, but I don't know anything about it or how it works.
Also, I recall at one point there was an option to use some type of "online currency" that was sold in the U.K. at gas stations and retail stores, meaning that you could buy them with cash, and then you went to a web site and typed in the number on the card you bought, and could transfer the money to AllOfMp3.com -- that seems like a pretty good way of doing cash-transations on the web. Pity it'
Re:XROST? (Score:5, Informative)
Not so long ago, XROST still worked with PayPal. Currently, it works primarily with prepaid cash cards - the type you mention - but also with Click&Buy, which is available in the US. I've got family in Europe, so for me it's easiest to Skype them and ask for one of the cash cards.
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Re:For everything you want to buy... (Score:5, Informative)
No, they didn't. Mastercard is the only credit/debit option that works, as of 5 minutes ago.
Re:For everything you want to buy... (Score:5, Informative)
Well... here goes. That's what fraud protection is good for.
Well, it worked. Now I've got to figure out $25.25 worth of music that I want. I wish they had audiobooks.
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Though you may say that I am pretty ignorant about the accusations against them, I keep an eye on any *official* news regarding their legality. I find their service of good quality (ogg encoding anyw
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Do you actually believe that some of this money gets back to the bands/producers?
AllOfMp3.com's Legality (or lack of) (Score:5, Informative)
So, to recap, it seems that media in Russia is still somewhat regarded as belonging to the people. However, this is not true in many other countries.
I cannot say I blame them with the gustapo **AA about.
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How's that amazing? Visa makes money off of every transaction. I'd say that they only quit because someone put pressure on them, not because they want to stop making money on those transactions.
They want money just like every other corporation. I'm sure that they don't entirely care where the money came from. I'm pretty sure that you can still use Visa to pay for pornographic content that may be illegal in your particular region of the co
Re:AllOfMp3.com's Legality (or lack of) (Score:5, Funny)
Not for me thanks.
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Possibly because Visa in the US is being floated on the stock exchange. I guess that is because the USA is moving in a rather insular direction, and they didnt want Visa in the rest of the world to be hit by legal problems in the USA. See the recent problems with online gambling for an example of the kind of exposures companies like Visa have if they wish to do business in the U
Re:AllOfMp3.com's Legality (or lack of) (Score:5, Informative)
Visa makes money off of every transaction.
"Visa" doesn't make money on transactions. The various organizations who own the Visa brand are banking consortia. Their job is to manage the brand name, define payment standards, validate implementations of those standards, and generally do whatever makes sense to facilitate their membership's ability to make money. The Visa organizations are primarily funded by dues paid by the member banks.
When you make a Visa payment, the money passes through two or three sets of hands. It goes like this:
The merchant acquirer and issuer both make money on the transaction, and the clearinghouse, if any, takes another small slice. The issuer obviously also makes money on finance charges if you don't pay your balance off right away.
All of this just highlights the fact that none of these players have any interest at all in shutting off the flow of money to allofmp3. The acquirer that allofmp3 uses is a Russian bank, so they have no legal issues, and plenty of interest in taking a slice of allofmp3's business. The various issuing banks are individually anonymous in the situation, they figure their only responsibility is to make sure that the transactions are not fraudulent -- mainly because they don't want to end up potentially footing the bill for the fraud. The clearinghouses just want to push transactions from point A to point B.
Each player can point to the others and say that it ought to be their decision as to whether or not payments from a certain merchant should be accepted. The most logical decisionmaker as to the legitimacy of the merchant is the acquirer -- and that's the Russian bank for whom there's no legal issue!
I find it quite surprising that Visa International decided to step in and order their members (the organizations who pay them!) not to accept allofmp3.com payments.
Re:AllOfMp3.com's Legality (or lack of) (Score:5, Informative)
Also, here is an excerpt from the Wikipedia entry for Visa [wikipedia.org] decribing Visa's complex corporate structure.
*
Legally, Visa comprises four non-stock, separately incorporated companies that employ 6000 people worldwide: Visa International Service Association ("VISA"), the worldwide parent entity; Visa U.S.A. Inc.; Visa Canada Association; and Visa Europe Ltd. The latter three separately incorporated regions have the status of group members of Visa International Service Association, whereas the unincorporated regions (Visa Latin America [LAC], Visa Asia Pacific and Visa Central and Eastern Europe, Middle East and Africa [CEMEA]) are divisions within VISA.
--Pat
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(picking myself up off the floor)
Its amazing that a soulless multinational mega corporation took money ?
They only fall in line when the lawyers deem the risk larger than the reward.
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Is there such a thing as a VISA card in Russia? I mean if you live there can you get a VISA card? I would guess yes but don't know for sure.
If the legality depends on your location does it depend on where you live? the billing address of your VISA card? the location of the Bank which you have your VISA card through? or the Head office of VISA?
Or does it just matter
Re:AllOfMp3.com's Legality (or lack of) (Score:5, Insightful)
>allofmp3 even though it is legal for you to use that site?
What does were you live have to do with it? What law makes it illegal for you to buy the music from Russia if you live in another country? Or are you claiming that USE, Turkey, Japan, South Africa (or whatever other non Russian country you might prefer) have some law forbiding you to purchase from another country? And what would that have to do with copyright who for sure doesn't have such limitations (we are talking of purchase of single number of copies of each song and for personal use, just like if you have bought the CD while in Russia and bring it home with it, just mentioning it so that you don't have to claim anything about import and I have to reply to tell about what is covered by the import part in copyright law and what is not).
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Sigh, I meant USA of course.
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Two questions:
1) In which jusrisdiction(s) was the law being broken?
2) Which law(s) in that jurisdiction(s) was/were being broken?
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1) US
2) Import laws (goes something like "copies that couldn't legally have been made in the US, can't be imported to the US". Since the Russian law doesn't apply in the US, you can't import copies made under that law.
It is certainly not legal for commercial use, I don't recall seeing an exception for consumers but there might be. I think there's some similar rules on counterfeit goods, you can be fined for importing it even if you have bought it as a private consumer. Of course
Re:AllOfMp3.com's Legality (or lack of) (Score:5, Informative)
>legally have been made in the US, can't be imported to the
>US". Since the Russian law doesn't apply in the US, you
>can't import copies made under that law.
Why do people who don't know the law, insists on making up their own version of it? Here is a link to the relevant law you probably think you are telling about:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode17/u
Note the exceptions (2), which would be applicable to anyone buying music over the net in single quantities of each work. Thus, it doesn't count as importation and the restrictions you refer to are not applicable and irrellevant.
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They didn't want you to point out that bit.
Kinda like the C&D I got from Farmers, they quoted a whole lot of crap from Title 15, but when you look there are two halves and they were quoting from the commercial half. The other half says: comparitive/critical/commentary/educational/etc. uses are exempt.
The entire C&D with annotated commentary is available here:
http://farmersreallysucks.com/cgi-bin/QAD_CMS.pl?p age=E1_First_Takedown.html [farmersreallysucks.com] Basically the same concept, just a different reason.
-nB
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>been shifting legality issues to you.
What responsability? There is no responsability for a purchaser of music that is applicable. A buyer is for example not distributing the material. Use in it self is not a copyright issue. So what specifically are you thinking of?
>Visa has now chosen to recognize this issue and not be party to breaking the law.
What law are you as a buyer breaking? None.
>However, th
I'm not sure a US court would agree with the last (Score:2)
Once you bring your purchase into the US, US law applies. For instance, it might be perfectly legal to buy a fully automatic AK-47 in Russia (I suspect not, but it makes a simple example) , but importing such a weapon into the US would require jumping through numerous hoops. Indeed, unless you're a registered firearms collector or have the appropriate license, owning such a firearm would be against the law and you could expect the
Re:I'm not sure a US court would agree with the la (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, but please tell what specific law you have in mind, there really is none.
>The fact that you bought the item in Russia doesn't necessarily
>mean that Russian law applies.
The purchase is done under Russian law if done in Russia. That is allofmp3's responsability. If a person then wants to use what they buy there to break the law in another country is that persons responsability. In the case in question, there is no such law violation though since it is perfectly legal to brgin a copy of a song or music into USA from other countries.
>I'm not a lawyer, but I believe that the AllOfMp3 site violates
>the spirit, if not the letter, of international copyright law.
What spirit? Are you claiming that there is a spirit that says any product with a work protected by copyright can not be moved from one country to another? I suppose someone should tell that to all the stores on international airports selling music CDs. For the record, no, there is no such restriction or anything at all about such restrictions in copyright laws, treaties or that like.
>That being the case, you're correct that the user isn't breaking the law. It's just a
>convenient way for AllOfMp3 to shift the blame:
So allofmp3 is not breaking the law and the buyer is not breaking the law, who is and what law?
>We can't be responsible if US or EU users are downloading content that they shouldn't.
What do you mean "shouldn't"? Either there is some law making it illegal or there is not. It happens to exist no such law.
Re:I'm not sure a US court would agree with the la (Score:2)
Bah, just use Mastercard (Score:2)
"Mastercard, it is everywhere the law is gray."
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Read that last paragraph, if you've been in the United States & using AllOfMp3.com, they've been shifting legality issues to you. Visa has now
Thanks Visa! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Thanks Visa! (Score:4, Insightful)
Beatport (Score:5, Insightful)
I never had any issues with paying for my music. I had issues with the DRM that was applied to that music. AllofMP3 offered that same music without DRM. If they turn out to be illegal (because the group they pay royalties to turns out not to have to license the music to AllOfMP3) then so be it.
I found an alternative, that better suits my taste of music and is completely legit, but a lot more expensive.
http://www.beatport.com/ [beatport.com]
Dave
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1) No DRM.
2) Legal (with no grey areas like AllOfMp3.com).
3) Multiple high quality encoding options (192 AAC being my choice).
4) Long, high quality previews.
5) A genius Flash interface that lets you browse, preview a song, continue browsing while it's previewing, add to card, and checkout -- all without a single browser refresh.
It IS usually twice as expensive as iTunes. But it's still a good deal, given most of the tracks are pr
"Heals" ~ "heels"? (Score:5, Funny)
* groan *
My inner grammar Nazi is involuntarily goose-stepping after reading that.
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pain (Score:3, Funny)
PayPal? (Score:2, Interesting)
I realize it probably would not work but it is a posibility.
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I doubt AllOfMp3's accounts there lasted ten minutes.
I think XROST is their way of getting around the financing problems of directly accepting credit cards or PayPal. You can (apparently?) buy XROST "cards" using either a credit card or PayPal, and then turn around and use that card at AllOfMp3 to load your account.
I'm not sure whether this is a totally safe tactic; it seems
Aaaayyyyyy. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Aaaayyyyyy. (Score:5, Funny)
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Back to piracy then... (Score:5, Insightful)
Great move RIAA...
Take care,
Brian
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And you're right, nobody wants DRM music. Apple's iTunes Store proves this with only 1.5 billion songs downloaded so far.
My guess is that this move by the RIAA won't increase the P2P traffic by more than 0.01%.
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1.5 billion songs downloaded from iTunes only means a lot of people just don't know it yet.
They will find out when their PC crashes and they lose all the music on their hard drive, get a new computer, install iTunes then auto-sync their IPOD and lose all their music. Or when in a few years there is another cool non-apple media player on the market and they try to move their music to their new player and find they can't.
Thats when people that already hate DRM and know a few of the tric
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They will find out when their PC crashes and they lose all the music on their hard drive, get a new computer, install iTunes then auto-sync their IPOD and lose all their music.
Or they could just back up their music files and restore them on their new computer. iTunes has a utility that does this. All the user has to do once they've been restored is authorize the computer
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>how many knew it wasn't legal even though they
>were paying for the songs?
What was illegal about it? What law was being broken? How? And by whom?
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I havent downloaded new music online for 2 years. Myself and a group of friends simply ship around a few USB hard drives. I just recieved 180gig of music I do not have from a friend in the best mp3 quality I can get and the id3 tags are all right. I wil lbe loading on about 20 gigs that another friend does not have and ship the drive along after I am done.
Easier, faster, better quality and the RIAA cant detect it. PSP sucks... F2F is far better.
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great timing ;( (Score:2)
I was able to update my pay
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>where US police cannot go, and which may or may not respect US
>law, does not mean that it is legal, or that US citizens
>are not committing US crimes.
However, in the case of allofmp3 there is no crime going on either in Russia, nor in any other country when a person buys a song from them. Or perhaps you could point out more specifically which law in Russia and which law (in for example USA) that is being broken?
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Riddle me this, If what allofmp3 is doing is so legal in the US, why isn't there a US company trying to compete with them for US sales?
Re:great timing ;( (Score:5, Insightful)
They aren't in the U.S. There are no treaties involved, no trade agreements either. U.S. law does not apply outside of the U.S., with the exception of us kidnapping people around the world and torturing them to death, which apparently is legal whether anyone else in the world objects or not.
And, to clarify the issue, think of it as people *phoning* a Russian server and listening to recorded music on the phone for a fee. Imagine them recording the sound with an old-fashioned tape recorder. This would break no law in the U.S. or Russia. It's not even a metaphor, it's what we're doing.
Re:great timing ;( (Score:5, Insightful)
this isnt' a troll post people, get a clue.
it IS true that the mpaa is not the same as law enforcement. and visa is also not law enforcement.
if I wanted to buy playboy mags, will visa 'use their morals' and stop me? no? oh really!
how is this any different. they claim some law is being broken but they can't ennunciate what, exactly that is.
again, I say - if a law is being broken, call the cops. visa is NOT my police force and I object to them even thinking they are allowed to wear that hat.
you KNOW that pressure is put on visa from the record industry. in that light, I see the mpaa/riaa as no worse or better than the 'russian mob'. you can't claim you are following what's good and right and yet be pressured by NON LAW ENFORCEMENT LOBBY GROUPS.
either you are a money brokering business OR you are in the morality and law enforcement business. you cannot be in both. and shouldn't be.
(just because you (mods) may disagree with me - that does NOT make this a troll post. sheesh!)
alternative (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:alternative (Score:4, Informative)
Visa Cuts Off AllOfMp3.com (Score:2)
Oh well, it was fun while it lasted
Sound of P2P application starting up
Maestro (Score:2)
No problem for me (Score:5, Funny)
No way to pay online now? (Score:4, Funny)
Reminder: AllofMP3 uses broadcast rules (Score:5, Informative)
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Yeah, Right (Score:2)
Crack coming in 5...4...3...
So who's going to foot the bill now ? (Score:2)
So who's going to foot the bill now then ?
Seriously, what do
All of MP3 heals? (Score:2)
I'm so glad this didn't come on the heels of some other bad news.
What about ICANN? (Score:2)
My $0.02 (Score:5, Insightful)
Delays in reporting news (Score:2)
--
http://unk1911.blogspost.com/ [blogspost.com]
Visa - it's not everywhere you want to be... (Score:3, Insightful)
If you want to make brand money as a cash replacement (which I assume is what their money cards are attempting to do), then you have to be a open carrier (allowing the end users to deal with the legal responsibility of their use of money). Once Visa picks and chooses what uses of their currency to allow, I have no way to know what the value of their currency is (because I don't know what I can do with it), and there's less point to using it over using cash (potential safety is helpful, but like a gift card, limitation in usage is a significant loss in value).
By announcing this loudly, they're telling their cash card holders that what they're holding isn't really cash, though Visa wishes to sell it as such. Maybe Visa's users will get the message.
Hypocrisy (Score:4, Insightful)
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I missed it, and I only have $4 left.
How are you suppoed to use XROST when the site has no way to redeem it at allofmp3?
JON
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Steve Jobs was right with the 0.99$/track pricing. Unless you're a huge music consumer (and I do use consumer in the real sense, i.e. fast-food never-stop-eating-even-though-it's-crap sense), paying 0.99$ is less trouble than trying to find a good encode of a song you want, not to mention the morons who normalize their tunes before
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But for single tracks the i
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Not many people have $10,000 to fill up an ipod.
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Thanks for playing the "I''ll try to use the same 5-years old lame FUD about the iPod" game.
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I'd rather go get free music on overclockedremix.org than 0.25$/tracks on eMusic.
Or... (Score:2)
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Powerful friends and in powerful places... MPAA in Bed with VISA...
Nothing new. In most western countries, people pay taxes either directly or indirectly (through recordable media taxes) to that nation's respective recording lobby, which then generally pockets the money. It's actually fairly interesting that the US has fairly lax laws on that, not requiring such on any data CDs, hard drives, etc.
Rights depend on laws (Score:2)
Actually that really depends on the laws of Russia. In the US AllOfMP3 might well be able to sue and demand service... but then again possibly not, I'm not sure there are laws that compell you to deliver service outside of things like anti-discrimination acts.
It will be interesting to see what Mastercard does.
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Visa's structure is actually not unlike the MPAA or RIAA.
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Only possibly, only some of the time. What is a rip-off? The loss of something, right? Well, if someone downloads an MP3 from Allofmp3.com that they would otherwise never purchase otherwise (due to the price difference and high-quality DRM-free product that Allofmp3.com offers), then there is no loss t
Who cares? (Score:2)
The artist (or whomever they have signed away their ownership rights to..) is the owner of the music. The whole system is fucked, so people justify ripping off the corporation, which in turn rips off the artist
If you, as a musician, are willing to do business with people who you admit are ripping you off right at the get-go, I have no sympathy for you. Give these goons fifteen bucks so you can get your dime? Not a chance in hell.
Re:RIAA should subpoena list of people from visa (Score:4, Insightful)