IE7 Released and Available for Download 586
Luis Escalante writes "After over a year and a half, IE7 has been released to the public as of Monday afternoon. Download it directly here. Word hit the streets after several mangers of the IE division posted on the IE blog."
What happened? (Score:1, Interesting)
Go ahead and mod me down for Flamebait, but honestly - the very few people here that care about IE7 had it during beta, so this isn't huge news.
User interface? (Score:4, Interesting)
I think I'll stick to Firefox, thanks.
Ugh. (Score:3, Interesting)
Plus, watch out, it is reported that it will be a forced update November 1st. So less time than normal to ensure the final version is kosher with your web apps!
Re:Actually (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:User interface? (Score:2, Interesting)
Oh, but didn't you know... both Vista and Office 2k7 hide menus and favor tool bars like IE7! You're supposed to "get used to it"! We are Microsoft - Resistance is futile.
Not surprising (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:I can hear... (Score:4, Interesting)
You're probably thinking of this table [webdevout.net].
CSS Opacity (Score:5, Interesting)
Subtle Naming changes (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Alternate download link (Score:3, Interesting)
My First impressions (Score:4, Interesting)
2: UI is TERRIBLE - why???
File / Edit / View menu:
Displays below the address / nav bar, a break from convention from every windows app Ive used in the past. A break from convention is good if its progress, this is just change for change sake, it flat out doesn't work!!!!
Command Menu:
Uses Real Estate that could be used for tabs. I want my home button beside my back and forward buttons. I cant convert to a classic view instead of the half baked attempt at a UI, or change
Navigation (back forward reload etc)
Should be grouped together.
I could go on. The fact is, Microsoft have locked me down with this software to a specific experience regarding its UI. I cant change the size of icons, nor the position of toolbars etc. Why not MS??.
Its a joke, and I havent even started playing with CSS in it yet. I was hoping for MS to listen to the cries of the RC users regarding toolbar management, they obviously didn't "hear us"
Re:Anyone know (Score:3, Interesting)
This is a decent question. I'm a web developer, and the only reason I use Windows is to make sure Internet Explorer renders things properly. Sure, IE7 is a gigantic step up, but it's still not to the point I can say "Well it works in Opera and Firefox, therefore it'll work in IE."
Unfortunately it's not looking too likely we'll see Wine being able to run Internet Explorer any time soon, thanks to the bundled Windows Genuine Advantage software. There's lots of implications in emulating a "genuine" Windows machine, so it will be interesting to see how this plays.
Re:"funny" but true (Score:5, Interesting)
Maybe it IS integrated, after all...
Uninstall? (Score:2, Interesting)
Free Advertising for Firefox (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Be glad (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually I'm designing a site from the ground up. Trying to do everything* right. Semantic markup, accesibility, proper source ordering, user customizable/specifiable everything...AND trying to accomodate most all browsers or degrade nicely. Its currently just me, but I've got a few other people that are about to come in and start working on it as well.
I'm doing this on the side, so no I wouldn't be out of a job, just gain a lot of spare time. Actually even if I could guarantee that all of my users would use the same 100% standards compliant browser I'd still have to make some of the same decisions...layouts, color schemes, etc. not to mention just implementing features...
I've mainly been focusing on making sure my markup is *perfect*. CSS can't do everything, but the nice thing is that if done correctly, you can turn CSS off and still be able to use the site. Same goes for javascript. My first version will require no javascript and all future core features will be able to run without it as well. AJAX and all this "Web2.0" hype is going to take a backseat to functionality, they'll be added as needed in future releases. I also like to test the experience from using a PDA. What's nice about this approach is that my "full" version and "mobile" version are the exact same codebase.
To top it all off, it has been developed entirely using...drumroll...vi(m).
Every "web dev" should do what I am doing at least once, so they can understand how sites work and not use their WYSIWYG "tools" as crutches and actually understand (x)HTML, CSS, and javascript. Dreamweaver is killing the web!
Nasty CSS Bug (Score:3, Interesting)
The real fix is to revert your entire layout into tables and not use divs and spans. I just put "zoom: 1;" in my style sheet then marked it as "WONT FIX" blaming IE7 and the fact that reverting to tables is a dumb idea (especially when only a fraction of users will depend on the zoom tool).
Re:Actually (Score:5, Interesting)
It's 2006, and Microsoft STILL hasn't learned how to simplify its interfaces? On the contrary, they're complicating them even further.
Re:"funny" but true (Score:5, Interesting)
Since other browsers don't come pre-installed on Windows computers, IE tends to be a neccesity (whether Windows should make it easier for applications to rely on other 3rd party browsers is a separate issue). As such, a system reboot is neccesary as the rendering engine itself, exposed as a library, must be updated. Basically it just ensures nothing is using the browser control at the time of update.
Virtual PC (Score:3, Interesting)
Especially don't do it if your Windows license is from MSDNAA (academic) because you only get 1 activation which is not renewable. In other words, I'm screwed. (Mac user, just have Windows for testing my web sites in IE, and no I will NEVER pay to get a copy of M$ Windows)
Re:Security patches (Score:5, Interesting)
HTTP content cannot be included in an HTTPS page (see the Internet Explorer Blog article).
Now expect the sound of thousands of admins whining as their critical mixed-content webpages fail to load, and the sound of millions of dollars of new servers and SSL accelerators to support SSL encryption of all the dancing bears on web servers that are signed into with HTTPS, but have all their image content on HTTP.
And oh, yes, expect the sounds of millions of tech support people with Indian accents getting phone calls from irate Americans and asking the inevitable question "Have you rebooted your computer, sir?" I hope Microsoft will pay for the new fiber-optic cable to support all the tech support calls.
This is going to be fun to watch, especially for web pages designed with old pieces of Microsoft design garbage like FrontPage.
Re:No problem... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:My First impressions (Score:5, Interesting)
Which brings home an interesting point. Are we going to see complaints that "IE7 doesn't work right" because of millions of sites using IE6-specific hacks? I mean, "they" used to pull that crap with Opera and Mozilla and Firefox a lot, claiming it was their fault. Can't wait to see the downfall this time, when IE7 gets a taste of Microsoft's own medicine.
understandable, still embarassing (Score:3, Interesting)
I double-boot Windows and Linux at work. I use mostly Linux (SuSE) and their automatic update feature is quite painless - you only have to reboot on kernel updates, which aren't that common. However, it always pisses me off when I restart to Windows and I have to restart another 10 times to install all patches that came out in the meantime. This is godawful embarassing, no matter the excuse, especially for a 'modern' operating system.
10 Minutes from Installation to UnInstallation (Score:5, Interesting)
1) Install IE7 since it's out of beta - downloads and installs in about 2 minutes.
2) Reboot PC - 1 minute
3) Enable menu bar - 2 minutes trying to get it to move to the top. Nope
4) Try to change search engine to Altavista - 2 minutes - exception thrown just typing a letter in the search menu.
5) Remove IE7 - 2 minutes
6) Reboot - 1 minute
(I guess I might have also added the about 5 minutes svchost ran my cpu to 100% after the first reboot)
How horrible.....
Re:"funny" but true (Score:5, Interesting)
The kind of issue you describe is solved automatically by the filesystem on Unix systems. If one process deletes a file that is opened by any process, then that file will be unlinked from the filesystem, but remain useable to the process that was already using the file. The file is not actually deleted from disk until all processes stop using it.
Among many other things, this means that you can safely upgrade a library, or even a program, that is running. The old processes will keep running the old library with no issues but any new processes that are created will automatically use the new one. Once all old processes die, the space used by the old library is returned to the filesystem.
There are gotchas with the 'Unix way', like correctly handling configuration files that are only open on startup and shutdown, but these issues can be handled with a bit of care.
Under Linux, people routinely upgrade Firefox or even the X windowing system while the programs themselves are still running. Afterwards, they simply restart the program in question to run the new version.
How widely will this be used? (Score:5, Interesting)
How widely will IE7 be installed? I think a relatively large percentage of the Windows userbase will be unable to install it because of the WGA stuff. You might end up with a long term 50/50 split between IE6 and IE7.
Re:That loud rattling sound? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:"funny" but true (Score:3, Interesting)
Last time I upgraded Firefox on Windows (which, admitedly was a long time ago) you had to close Firefox and any program using it before starting the upgrade. But no matter what FF does, the upgrade method I described in my previous post _doesn't_ work under Windows. Removing a file that is opened by some other program _will_ fail under Windows. You need to either shut down all programs using a library, or install the new library to a different location. I don't know which one of these methods FF uses, and it doesn't matter. Neither method would be workable for a library which is used by every non-trivial application on the system.
What about Win 2k? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Subtle Naming changes (Score:3, Interesting)