Crunching the Numbers on a Hydrogen Economy 396
mattnyc99 writes "In its new cover story, 'The Truth About Hydrogen,' Popular Mechanics magazine takes a close look at how close the United States is to powering its homes, cars and economy with hydrogen — including a calculation of where all the hydrogen would come from to meet President Bush's demands. Interesting that they break down the future of hydropower not by its advantages but by its challenges: production, storage, distribution and use."
Electricity + Water (Score:5, Interesting)
Then again, so would a huge flywheel or a bunch of batteries.
What about Iceland? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Hydro... power? (Score:3, Interesting)
Coal to oil (Score:2, Interesting)
With oil running out in +/- 43 years we are already started very late to start working on good solutions. I think that we, in the end will be working with the coal liquefaction solutions. Creating oil from coal is already done on large scale in South Africa.
We will not be able to change all current diesel driven machines to a other power source so I think this will become to gap closer until we find a better solution. I really wonder what the governments around the world are doing on this subject? Can some people please comment on this to give some insight?
Storage as a "compound" (Score:2, Interesting)
USA thinks about it, Iceland takes action (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Electricity + Water (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Crisis is in Transportation sector. (Score:2, Interesting)
And this is only the case if there is what they predict there will be.
Re:What about Iceland? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Electricity + Water (Score:3, Interesting)
Ultimately, this depends on population density and the efficiency advantage of the large-scale approach.
For any generation method limited by Carnot cycle efficiency, this is true. But fuel cells do not have this limit, and their efficiency does not increase very much with their size. Also, given that most homes already have some sort of chemical energy (natural gas or oil) delivered for heating, they could use the same stuff, reform it and generate their own electricity, which would eliminate line losses.
A better approach (Score:3, Interesting)
Hydrogen is not an energy source, it is transmission medium. We already have a highly effective transmission medium: electricity. Improvements in our electricity generation and distribution systems would be a simple, incremental means towards a more diverse energy generation portfolio.
The main problems are battery technology for mobile applications, and long distance transmission. The inability to ship electricity across the continent divides our nation into geographic markets; it is not possible to harvest wind energy in North Dakota and sell it in California. In my state of Massachusetts there is a huge brouhaha over a massive ocean based wind farm right off the coast of our prime tourist area. This farm would be unnecessary if we could buy wind power from distant land based wind farms.
The answer would be a national superconducting electricity grid.
One advantage of a national super grid would be that it would create a superior storage medium for renewable but variable sources, such as solar voltaic, wind and tidal power, by converting them to natural gas and diesel fuel reserves with near perfect effiency.
Huh?
It's simple: we have already natural gas and diesel plants that burn fossil fuels and supply a major fraction of our electricity. If they don't burn as much fuel because a distant, renewable source is providing power to the local grid, the difference in fuel is saved. From a national viewpoint, if that renewable energy had been magically converted into diesel oil, tbe practical result wouldn't be any different, on the "penny saved is a penny earned" theory.
A superconducting grid may also be the missing incremental step towards increased hydrogen use. The superconducting transmission lines would have to be cooled. If liquid hydrogen were used as a coolant, then it would provide an alternative (but less efficient) form of energy storage to saved fossil fuels. The producers would provide a mix of hydrogen and electricity and inject them into the transimission line. On the receiving end, the hydrogen would be gasified and converted into electricity at a rate sufficient to maintain cooling in the transmission line.
This would provide a local source of liquid or gasified hydrogen that could be piped or tankered to power hydrogen fleet vehicles at the outset. An example might be post office delivery vehicles, for whom a daily range of a couple of hundred miles is acceptable; or possibly some mass transit buses that take many short distance trips and could be refuled during the day. If there were other local uses for the hydrogen, then the local terminal would request more and the producers would alter their electricty/hydrogen mix. However if hydrogen is outstripped by battery technology, then the basic infrastructure is still useful.
The best part of this is that it could be done much faster than a fossil fuel to hydrogen transition.
Re:Hydrogen Not A Fuel? (Score:4, Interesting)
bmw and honda... (Score:2, Interesting)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_station [wikipedia.org]
Increase in price is the problem (Score:3, Interesting)
This is a true statement. However, what you're not really discussing -- and what really lies behind the worries of people discussing Peak Oil -- is what the social consequences of that increase in cost will be.
As energy becomes more expensive, the lifestyles that we currently have (particularly in the United States) become untenable. This could be particularly catastrophic if the run-up in prices occurs quickly, rather than gradually. The increase in energy prices could also trigger hyperinflation, lower real purchasing power, and decrease the quality of living of millions of people.
In short, even if the world doesn't run out of energy -- even if the lights don't suddenly go out, without proper planning ahead of time, it might become too expensive for most people to keep them on.
The threat is not that there won't be any energy, the threat is that it'll be so expensive, only a very few people will be able to afford it.
Re:Hindenburg explosion not H2 but FeO3&Al (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Hydrogen transportation (Score:3, Interesting)
Jamaica produces Sugar from cane and sells it at a loss (weird Jamaican politics that I won't get into). However Appleton estate is profitable, unlike the rest. Why? they grow sugarcane to make rum. That rum attracts premium prices.
Rum is technically byproduct of the waste from sugar production. Just like Molasses and Bagas (wood substitute). Since these goys figured out how to cover the total cost off a single byproduct any money made from selling the other stuff is pure profit.
Same concept in my post.