MySpace Predator Caught By Code 374
An anonymous reader writes, "Wired News editor and former hacker Kevin Poulsen wrote a
1,000-line Perl script that checked MySpace for registered sex offenders. Sifting through the results, he manually confirmed over 700 offenders, including a serial child molester in New York actively trying to hook up with underage boys on the site, and who has now been arrested as a result. MySpace told Congress last June that it didn't have this capability." Wired News says they will publish Poulsen's code under an open-source license later this week.
The only thing suprising about this is... (Score:1, Insightful)
Is this legal? (Score:2, Insightful)
didn't have the capability (Score:5, Insightful)
Thus spake the article:
No amount of rummaging through any database is going to detect someone who registers under a false name, so no MySpace will NEVER really have the ability to find all the sex offenders, unless they can somehow verify that people are who they say they are when they sign up. Though they do now have the ability to catch the really stupid ones it seems.
Re:Is this legal? (Score:3, Insightful)
Kind of depends. I mean, you intend to make information public when you publicly post it on MySpace, right? So why would you be upset when people start looking for that information? Search engines used to be able to find personal webpages when those were all the craze.
The truth is, if you are concerned about privacy, don't make your personal matters public. Share only what you're willing to tell people, and hide things that should only be shared with a select few behind passwords. Then if someone breaks your security (even if it's fairly simple security), you at least have a case for your privacy being violated.
A little perspective (Score:1, Insightful)
On the other hand, if I had to worry about anybody, I'd worry about our senators. A way higher proportion of our elected elite prey on the young than we have caught doing so on MySpace. In case you hadn't been paying attention, here's a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Foley_scandal [wikipedia.org]
We spend way too much time worrying about things that aren't much of a problem and way too little time worrying about the things that can really get us.
I think these quotes says it all (Score:5, Insightful)
And then there is Jacob, one of the kids this 39 year old had "friended":
So Jacob's parents can't be bothered to, you know, go see wtf this kid is doing on MySpace? The earlier comment snippet makes it seem like the parents of this kid are totally off the hook here, but guess what? Wether your kid is hanging out at the local corner or someplace online, you really need to know where they are and what they are doing. And then there is the whole issue about not talking to stangers in the first place; apparently his parents have completely missed the boat in that area. Scary.
Whack myspace hard (Score:4, Insightful)
MySpace needs to be whacked, hard. Harder.
The lazy, lying bastards should be shut down, made an example of. At the least, they're now liable because someone showed it could be done, and because they were too lazy to do it themselves, they now have a liability exposure for any child that was preyed upon through their web site.
Re:didn't have the capability (Score:4, Insightful)
That's all we ever catch. The stupid ones. Well, that and the really unlucky ones. The ones that are smart enough to kidnap some kid from some non-surveillance location, abuse them, and release them far away from either the pickup point or the place where they abused them are seldom caught - and the ones that are so successful at their emotional abuse that the victim (regardless of age) never even reports the abuse. I'm not sure if that's intelligence or just skill at manipulating people.
Ever watch 60 Minutes? They had a special on a sting they did and guys just kept showing up at the house all day. Some of them even saw a cop, or some other guy, and waited for a while, then came back. I mean, what kind of idiot do you have to be?
Re:didn't have the capability (Score:3, Insightful)
However, what bugs me about the article is it saying things like:
I call BS: as a parent it is your responsibility to know where your kid is, and to teach them how to avoid child predators. If your kids spends time online every night, wouldn't it be a good idea to talk to him/her and find out what they are doing online, and who they are talking to?? Yet another article claiming, "don't worry parents, it isn't your job to keep your kids safe online!" isn't helping the problem at all.
Re:Good Job Kevin (Score:5, Insightful)
Now why is that, exactly?
We know that child molestation has occurred for untold eons. Humans are therefore resilient, resistant to such things, for the sake of survival. And at the risk of getting flamed, I want to point out the evidence that most victims of such mistreatment do in fact go on to lead normal lives. Natural selection sternly requires it.
So. Why is child molestation such an obviously hideous evil?
Is it just because we in the West are presently obsessed with sex?
I swear I am not trolling. I myself am actually a victim, from age 8, but I seem to be fine (although my level of slashdotting may be a sign of a deep malfunction). Ever since I realized that I survived unscathed, I have been wondering for a long time why this subject gets an automatic "OMG teh molestation!!!11!" response, when it is actually such a commonplacde in human history.
It almost -- ALMOST -- smells like we are protesting too much.
Re:unless it was called "ia_archiver" (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Whack myspace hard (Score:5, Insightful)
In fact, the question could be posed whether they would have liability if they went hunting for "sexual predators" and made a public spectacle of someone who could be guilty of nothing more than propositioning a police officer posing as a street walker - in other words, someone who could be required by their state to be registered as a sex offender but has shown no predilection towards the exploitation of children or forcing sexual contact on someone.
Re:Good Job Kevin (Score:3, Insightful)
It is a fear response.
On the other hand, if there is a way to find out repeat sexual predators who are looking for new prey then shouldn't we use that method?
I'm going to make a general comment - I find MySpace unbearably creepy and exhibitionistic. I wonder if its purpose was to provide titillation and unhealthy fascination in young people because it appears to be doing an excellent job at that.
Re:Is this legal? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Easy? (Score:2, Insightful)
Also keep in mind, while I haven't read the testimony, "They don't have the ability" means the don't have the code written to perform those tests today, nothing more. Not "A million monkeys could never develop that code because its impossible, now, then, and in the future". And filtering for child molesters potentially puts them at risk, if they miss one the patents are almost certain to sue (you should have protected my kids! I shouldn't have to raise them and look after them...)
Re:May I be the first to say... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Good Job Kevin (Score:4, Insightful)
My personal feeling on this specific issue is that I don't think MySpace has any true responsibility to monitor this, any more than other social networking programs/websites (like the many IM programs). The only real recourse society has in this case (barring violation of MySpace's rights) would be to legislate them into things like requiring credit cards for access (thus supposedly proving adult status), boycotting the service or going "vigilante," rooting out the pedophiles Dateline style.
Re:I think these quotes says it all (Score:3, Insightful)
If a kid's parents don't know (s)he's gay, you really think they're going to know about his Myspace page?
Re:MySpace should check for more than this! (Score:1, Insightful)
I agree to some extent, the parents should definitely be very heavily involved in any relationship a 12 year old boy has with a 40 year old man. Furthermore, for a 12 year old boy to develop a relationship with someone he met online is extremely risky.
Having said that, mentoring relationships can be extremely valuable. Some of my parent's friends, for example, have provided me with incredibly valuable guidance - not just direct advice but also as examples of how to live and solve life's problems.
Basically, I think younger people should seek out older people for guidance much more often than they do but, for younger children in particular, the parents do need to be heavily involved.
If some 12 year old boy contacted me on the internet, I would want to talk to his parents before I had any kind of interaction with him at all. On the other hand, if some 17 year old boy contacted me to discuss a scientific topic then I see nothing wrong with corresponding. If I did start to become friends with the 17 year old then I would want to get to know his parents but, although I would restrict my interaction to technical topics (no advice on relationships), I wouldn't rule out a casual friendship.
Re:Good Job Kevin (Score:1, Insightful)
While your post as a whole was well written and insightful, the number of people who eat meat and feel absolutely no remorse argues against any general sympathy for living beings.
eh. (Score:3, Insightful)
Really, really scary looking guy, convicted of several counts of incest.
But, HE didn't have an account, his image was used without his knowledge or permission.
Re:A little perspective (Score:3, Insightful)
A little perspective? Make that little girl that he targets your daughter and we'll see how your "perspective" changes.
Re:didn't have the capability (Score:5, Insightful)
I do not need to be red flagged and reviewed based on these criteria. I can think of a variety of reasons why an adult could potentially have many people on their friends list who are underage. Do some of them coincide with people who "could be" sexual predators? Of course they do, but that is because sexual predators are attracted to positions that afford them opportunities -- and not because we should be red flagging every teacher, priest and family member that uses a website!
You know what else? Alot of children turn to these people with sexual concerns during maturity. Not everyone speaks as formally in private as I am right now, people do talk about sex, and sometimes people are just crude. You want to investigate every football coach who gets asked about the birds and the bees, or has some kid moon him via webcam?
Innocent until proven guilty; remember that always. Having people on your buddy list and being crude on the internet isn't anywhere close to probable cause. Not for the commu^H^H^H^Hterrorists, not for witc^H^H^H^Hmuslims, and not to 'think of the children'.
~Rebecca
Re:Reporters should not be agents of the state. (Score:3, Insightful)
If a reporter sees a crime on the street and reports it, that's good citizenship. If a reporter goes crime-hunting to fabricate a story, that endangers every other reporter out there trying to act as an independent observer.
I hope that addresses your false dichotomy.
Kevin's release conditions aren't any different from any other felon. He's not on supervision, and doesn't have to report crimes he witnesses. As should be obvious from his prior reporting.
Hope this helps.
-- Adrian
Re:Good Job Kevin (Score:3, Insightful)
I think you'll find that it's mostly the young people providing the "titillation and unhealthy fascination" to each other.
Are "sex offenders" not allowed to use MySpace? (Score:3, Insightful)
This is a little like cross referencing a list of library card holders and comparing it to the list of "sex offenders" and waxing hysterical that there are "sex offenders" in the library. Do the same with Blockbuster cards, or the phone book. Geee gads, there are "sex offenders" in the city...
Yes, there are young people on MySpace, but not all MySpace users are young. Some people are well into their 30s and 40s and use it to connect with other 30 and 40 year olds.
The mere presence of "sex offenders" should not be cause for concern anymore then if they were in a library, Wal-Mart, mall, grocery store, etc. This is reinforced with the fact that many "sex offenders" really aren't-people who were 18 and their partner was 15, public urinators, that guy that grabbed that girl to yell at her for jaywalking or whatever, etc.
Re:MySpace told congress... (Score:4, Insightful)
This is why it's not as simple as searching for string a in string b. You'll end up with half a million names, and not only do you have to monitor those half a million users to see what they're up to, you have to prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Dougy is the infamous sex offender, and not an 11 year old trying to pick up 16 year olds.
Re:Whack myspace hard (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Good Job Kevin (Score:2, Insightful)
Evolution is "death of the least fit", not "survival of the fittest". As long as a critter can eek out an existence, it doesn't have to be the very best. Some one can be completely fscked up, and yet still be fit enough to survive.
Evolution may prove lots of things, but it certainly doesn't prove that rape, child molestation, beatings, or racism are not bad things (by your logic, all of these things have been going on for a long long time, and yet we're all fine).
Re:didn't have the capability (Score:4, Insightful)
a) all of them
b) half of them
c) none of them
d) just the dumb ones
And the real answer is...
e) half of the dumb ones
Re:May I be the first to say... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:A little perspective (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Whack myspace hard (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Whack myspace hard (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, OR parents could just protect their own damn kids so companies don't have to.
If I had a kid who I felt was dumb enough to be lured in by one of these guys, myspace would be blocked on my router. If I didn't know how to do that, I'd keep the cable modem in a locked drawer, only to be brought out at times when I could sit with them on the computer and watch what was going on.
Whatever happened to raising your own kids, and not having the internet, video games, and TV do it for you?
Re:A little perspective (Score:5, Insightful)
Make that little girl that he targets your daughter and we'll see how your "perspective" changes.
You're absolutely right, that sort of thing is enough to change anybody's perspective and turn just about anybody into somebody who would suddenly support torture and summary execution.
That is, perhaps, the best reason of them all that it should be impartial parties who administer justice and decide the punishments for these sorts of things. Child sexual abuse is just one prime example. Replace it with "terrorism" and you have another one playing out each day before our very eyes.
Often times it is best to leave the emotion at the doorstep and debate things logically and dispassionately. Pretty much any issue with as much emotion behind it as this one is going to be one of those cases.
Another thing to consider with these "lock them up forever!" attitudes toward some crimes: You run the risk of making things worse. Somebody sexually abusing a child is bad. Somebody sexually abusing a child and then killing him/her because, in terms of their sentence, it is essentially free--that is worse. I'd rather get my child back and the offender get out of jail than have him/her killed and see the offender locked away forever. No contest.
Re:May I be the first to say... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:May I be the first to say... (Score:2, Insightful)
Which brings up a concern I've always had. Let me preface this by stating that I'm the father of 3 and if anyone had ever abused any of my kids they'd be lucky to make it to prison.
That said, though, doesn't it seem just a little unconstitutional to require only one class of criminal to be registered for life and tracked for life even after they have done their prison time? I know courts have upheld it, but it sounds like inconsistent application of the law.
Why aren't murderers required to register? I serial killer who never sexually assaults their victims could conceivably get out of jail and not have to register on any watch lists, but a dumb 17 year old boy having sex with an (underage) 16 year old girl can be arrested for rape and required to be a registered sex offender for life.
How exactly is that constitutional? The whole point of prison was paying your debt to society. If you do that and get out (not on parole, but complete the sentence), why should you have to continue to be punished for life?
This is like the discussion the other day around felons losing the right to vote even after they are out of prison.
Re:didn't have the capability (Score:3, Insightful)
You have that absolutely correct. We won't know the outcome, though, until it is too late. Furthermore, whatever way it does go will likely prove to be the "bloodiest" in all of American history (probably even surpassing the Civil War).
Personally, I hold very liberal views. I am not registered as a Democrat, however. I believe in the purpose and intent of the second ammendment. I believe in the right to carry arms. I believe in gun control - my gun, and I control it. I also believe in an individual's (male or FEMALE) right to choice - IN ALL MATTERS. Your body, your land, your property, your choice. Just be prepared to accept all consequences and responsibilities for your actions. Unfortunately, many people can't or won't - I say these people are weak of mind and will.
I was once a card-carrying member of both the NRA and the ACLU (I get very interesting mail, now, and I am sure i cause a few people's heads to explode), but with the heavy slant of the NRA toward one specific segment of the population (namely, republican conservatives), and their seeming unwillingness to actually exercize their second ammendment freedoms and knowledge to protect the other ammendments (ie - why the hell can't the NRA get along with the ACLU?) - I dropped support of them for support of the ACLU alone. Unfortunately, I am rapidly getting to the point where I want to drop them, too - because while they support fighting against attacks on the other ammendments and our freedoms, you rarely (not that I can recall - if someone has links, please respond!) they never want to support the rights of the second!
Gah! Where is my organization which supports ALL RIGHTS for ALL PEOPLE?
Re:Is this legal? (Score:3, Insightful)
So society has said - wink, wink...nudge, nudge.