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YouTube Leaves Google Vulnerable? 208

PreacherTom writes "Yesterday's big news was Google's $1.65 billion deal to acquire popular video hosting service YouTube. But will it be a good deal? The market thinks so, as Google's stock rose about $10 per share after the purchase. On the other hand, YouTube increases Google's risk of copyright infringement, opening the door for significant liability...if Google cannot solve this issue. Will their planned video 'fingerprinting' be enough, or just a billion dollar mistake?" From the article: "YouTube's policy is to remove copyrighted clips once alerted to their existence. Content providers say the company needs to be even more proactive ... Todd Dagres, general partner at Boston's Spark Capital, says that Google's large market cap of $130 billion makes it much more vulnerable to lawsuits than a private company such as YouTube. 'Once Google starts to apply its monetization machine, there is going to be more money at stake and people are going to go after it,' says Dagres. 'You cannot monetize other people's content without their approval.'"
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YouTube Leaves Google Vulnerable?

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  • They wish (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 10, 2006 @10:01AM (#16377305)
    You cannot monetize other people's content without their approval.

    That's not what the copyright laws say. It's what the content industry wishes they would say, and takes them to mean. This is a great quote because it reveals how they really think about it.
  • by Se7enLC ( 714730 ) on Tuesday October 10, 2006 @10:02AM (#16377315) Homepage Journal
    Google Video [google.com] and YouTube [youtube.com] are the SAME THING. The only difference is that google actually takes down copyrighted video when people post it to google videos and youtube doesn't. I don't see any reason why video.google can't merge with youtube and fix youtubes problems.
  • by xxxJonBoyxxx ( 565205 ) on Tuesday October 10, 2006 @10:04AM (#16377341)
    YouTube increases Google's risk of copyright infringement, opening the door for significant liability
    Despite what else I think of Google, this move makes sense. Google has stepped up to defend itself on a number of other copyright fronts (including book content); I think they will do an equally good job defending themselves (or coming to terms) on the video front.
  • since when... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by aleksiel ( 678251 ) on Tuesday October 10, 2006 @10:05AM (#16377349)
    since when was google afraid of copyright lawsuits? caching webpages, images, (mostly open-source-ish) code, actual books, and (some of their) videos?

    i think youtube fits right in, personally.
    but also, i hate the current state of our copyright laws.
  • by ImaNihilist ( 889325 ) on Tuesday October 10, 2006 @10:12AM (#16377431)
    How many people are going to go to YouTube when all the copyrighted material is gone?

    Not many.
  • by DerGeist ( 956018 ) on Tuesday October 10, 2006 @10:13AM (#16377445)
    Exactly. So many comments by analysts and armchair politicians seems to reflect a certain mindset that Google is so blindingly stupid that they bought YouTube for 1.65 billion after a six-week bender, and now their lawyers are crapping their Dockers screaming "oh crap, I forgot! We could get sued!"

    Obviously Google knows there is copyrighted content on YouTube. It also knows that YouTube is what people want. Before the idea of capitalistic humility was eroded by monopolistic content producers who unilaterally decided they had consumers by the proverbial balls and would take them for all they're worth, companies actually tried to give consumers what they wanted. Google, I think, understands that. Yes, people want everything for free, but we all love YouTube. And why? Ignoring the vlogs and random jackass-style videos that everyone likes to watch, YouTube is on-demand content. It's a service that is realizable within today's technological constraints and universally desired among consumers. If Google can find a way to get the money machine going on this, the possibilities suddenly become immensely attractive.

  • by jackharrer ( 972403 ) on Tuesday October 10, 2006 @10:16AM (#16377461)
    Exactly. They can just simply say: 'Oh, just because of sheer amount of videos we overlooked few. But we're trying.".
    So we can be sure that we will still be able to see everything - but just for few days. Which is really good for marketing - you need to visit their page very often, just not to miss some content.

    Good idea, plus if you don't annoy RIAA and MPIA (and their BIG members) too much it should work.

    jackharrer
  • by suv4x4 ( 956391 ) on Tuesday October 10, 2006 @10:17AM (#16377483)
    Think about it. Would Google, which already has Google Video, go and spend 1.6 billion on a virtually equivalent service, only to end up "vulnerable" and sued?

    Somehow I feel this was discussed behind closed doors, risks assessed and measured, strategy outlined. The deal proceeded despite all this.

    There's simply a lot we just don't know to start discussing if YouTube leaves "Google vulnerable". And when you don't know something, it's best to wait and see, versus flap your mouth, outputting unmitigated BS in your articles.
  • Monetize? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by TheWoozle ( 984500 ) on Tuesday October 10, 2006 @10:19AM (#16377507)
    You keep using that word; I don't think it means what you think it means.

    Is the entertainment industry going to lobby Congress to make movies and songs into a currency?
  • by bytesex ( 112972 ) on Tuesday October 10, 2006 @10:22AM (#16377539) Homepage
    When the market realizes that young people switch over from one website to the next on a whim, and that you can make youtube out of slashdot out of wikipedia with just minor code changes, they will once again withdraw their money and the market will collapse. All these companies have is brands; it's a dangerous move by Google.
  • Re:They wish (Score:5, Insightful)

    by linuxci ( 3530 ) on Tuesday October 10, 2006 @10:22AM (#16377545)
    In the end anyone who puts up TV shows on one of these services is going well beyond fair use but all Google should have to do is pull it down when asked.

    However, content providers that don't embrace video services like youtube will end up losing out in the long run. There's a lot of other ways people can get the content, now they've had a taste of what's possible then more and more people would start looking elsewhere (P2P maybe) for their content should it be pulled from Googles servers. So it makes sense for the content providers to stike a deal with Google and get a share of ad revenue rather than drive people to P2P where they get nothing.

    It's good to see Google is already striking deals with other companies.
  • Monetize? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by pla ( 258480 ) on Tuesday October 10, 2006 @10:25AM (#16377583) Journal
    You cannot monetize other people's content without their approval

    And here we have, in one choice of wording in one sentence, the embodyment of everything wrong with out entire IP system.

    We need to line asshats like this need up against the wall, ASAP. Yes, YouTube hosts quite a lot of copyrighted content. Yes, Google has deeper pockets. So what?

    Camwhores aside, anyone considering suing GooTube does not have the advancement of human culture in mind - Or even their own sales! They just want a quick buck via legislation rather than work. YouTube has taken what amounts to the "abandonware" of the media market, and made it popular again even in a low-quality format. Sales of cheesy 80s videos collections have skyrocketed thanks to YouTube, and at least some major labels haven't failed to notice this. But it only takes a single holdout, who considers their one-hit-underground-wonder as the single most important pile of dung on the planet, to make YouTube the next Napster.


    We don't need an overhaul of IP law (and yes, I do include the whole plate of copyright, trademark, patents, and the rest in that term, quite deliberately), we need it completely done away with. We need a judiciary that has at least a basic grasp of the technology they keep making very dangerous decisions about. And we need people who talk about "monetizing" anything other than physically backed currency taken out back and shot.
  • by ImaNihilist ( 889325 ) on Tuesday October 10, 2006 @10:26AM (#16377597)
    That's because people happen to find other things while looking for illegal content. I've never met anyone outside of my geek circle that actually used YouTube to watch viral internet videos. Every "normie" I know uses YouTube to watch TV shows, anime, and music videos (quasi-legal now). When you remove the illegal content from YouTube, what is it? It's called Google Video, which probably doesn't even get 1/100th the views. Probably not even 1/1000th. If you aren't using it to watch illegal content, you're using it to either watch lonelygirl, brookers, or some other hobag play with her boobs. I suppose as long as they keep those three going strong, they will always have an audience. Boobs are always in style.
  • by skiingyac ( 262641 ) on Tuesday October 10, 2006 @10:30AM (#16377655)
    You cannot monetize other people's content without their approval.

    YouTube has just signed how many agreements with major content providers. Do you think that MAYBE, just MAYBE, Google was waiting for that to happen before buying them?

    So, the question isn't even relevant. Nobody cares whether they can do it without their approval. YouTube HAS their approval, and now that Google owns YouTube, so does Google.

    Any remaining content providers will quickly realize their choices are 1) spend money on long, expensive lawsuits against Google with little/no prospect of a ROI, or 2) jump on the bandwagon for practically free and make some money out of it. It shouldn't take long even for a corporate board member to figure that one out.
  • Re:They wish (Score:3, Insightful)

    by monkeydo ( 173558 ) on Tuesday October 10, 2006 @10:35AM (#16377719) Homepage
    Yes, copyright law is actually much broader than that. In fact, you can't distribute other people's copyrighted content without their permission, even if you aren't making money off it.

    That is what you meant, right?
  • Re:They wish (Score:4, Insightful)

    by gilgongo ( 57446 ) on Tuesday October 10, 2006 @10:39AM (#16377753) Homepage Journal
    "In the end anyone who puts up TV shows on one of these services is going well beyond fair use but all Google should have to do is pull it down when asked"

    The CRUCIAL thing here is "when asked." The problem with copyright culture right now is that content providers far too often simply tear stuff down before waiting to see whether the copyright holder wants them too or not. Granted, this is a proactive measure designed to save them from the courts, but if I were the boss of a TV station I'd ask them to keep it up there: if it's old episodes of Gilligan's Island or outtakes from Lost that are pulling the kids into YouTube then I can get those same kids to subscribe to cable (and or some future hi-def format) and watch it there too.

    No exposure == no audience == no money. This is the lesson of the long tail.

  • by PreacherTom ( 1000306 ) * on Tuesday October 10, 2006 @10:44AM (#16377821)
    You don't think both are examples of selective enforcement?
  • by rkcallaghan ( 858110 ) on Tuesday October 10, 2006 @10:46AM (#16377853)
    skiingyac wrote:
    Any remaining content providers will quickly realize their choices are 1) spend money on long, expensive lawsuits against Google with little/no prospect of a ROI, or 2) jump on the bandwagon for practically free and make some money out of it. It shouldn't take long even for a corporate board member to figure that one out.
    Academic curiosity: In the history of megacorporations, with particular emphasis on copyright-owning media corporations; have any of them ever chosen option number 2?

    If yes, who? What were their results? If no, what indicators do we have that they would do so now?

    ~Rebecca
  • by pnuema ( 523776 ) on Tuesday October 10, 2006 @10:51AM (#16377907)
    Some things to point out...

    1. Google paid 1.5% of the company in stock to purchase YouTube. Google stock jumped 5% on the news. Purchasing YouTube resulted in a profit for Google.

    2. Television as we know it is dieing, and quickly. You can already watch many network shows on the web. Moving shows to the web means that networks can gather better metrics, which means better add targeting, which means higher add prices, which means fewer adds. Everybody wins. (And before you go on about greedy media companies, nobody knows better how not to kill the goose that laid the golden egg than Google).

    3. Media providers were already signing up in ones and twos with YouTube. They will now fall all over themselves to sign up with the web's largest advertising company.

    4. You can't be sued for hosting copyrighted content unless you have been properly notified of your infringement by the copyright holder and ignored it. No legal risk unless you bungle it.

    5. With media providers signing up with YouTube to host their copyrighted content, there will be more copyrighted content available, at higher quality. You will have to sit through adds, but not as many as when you watch TV, and you can do it at your own schedule.

    Google will be the largest media company in the world within 10 years. You heard it here first.

  • by slughead ( 592713 ) on Tuesday October 10, 2006 @11:03AM (#16378049) Homepage Journal
    YouTube's policy is to remove copyrighted clips once alerted to their existence. Content providers say the company needs to be even more proactive

    The law says otherwise.

    Nice try, __AA.
  • by King_TJ ( 85913 ) on Tuesday October 10, 2006 @11:10AM (#16378157) Journal
    I think "the market" may be more web-savvy than YOU!

    You can't just "make a YouTube out of Slashdot" or what have you, with "only minor code changes"! I'd agree that only small changes are needed to turn a particular type of site into a competing "clone" of the site. This is often seen with online dating service web sites, for example. They all perform the same basic function, so the back-end database code is pretty much the same.

    But the hardware, bandwidth AND software demands of a streaming video site are very different than a blog site that deals in practically all text.

    The fact that young people switch web sites "on a whim" is meaningless. Young people *always* switch brand loyalty on a whim. The fashion industry is well aware of this, yet they haven't stopped vying for their dollars, have they? The fact is, there's a lot of money to be made in creating and trying to hang onto an image of "oool/trendy" as long as you possibly can.
  • Quite Brilliant (Score:2, Insightful)

    by echocola ( 871854 ) on Tuesday October 10, 2006 @11:13AM (#16378209)
    I think this move is quite brilliant actually. They are going to make a rival to broadcast TV with this move. Copyright issues, I don't think so. The media companies will be paying THEM to host their content. This is going to be the TV of the future with targetted ads for "On Demand" content.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 10, 2006 @11:34AM (#16378479)
    Probably a regional thing.. everyone I know uses google video.


    Everyone I know also uses Firefox. That's gotta mean something. Oh wait, that's right; it doesn't mean anything. I mean, anything other than everyone I know uses Firefox. It implies absolutely nothing about the market or popularity or usability or safety or anything else. And, more importantly, it ignores the MASSIVE AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE that points to the other, far more logical conclusions.

    Yeah, this is flamebait, I know, but for the love of Jebus, STOP USING ANECDOTES IN ARGUMENTS. Am I the only friggin' Comp Sci person that had to take a logic class and actually remembers what Unrepresentative Sample means? Anecdotes add absolutely nothing to debates. It's almost as useful as saying "My favorite color is blue" when talking about website design.
  • by AlXtreme ( 223728 ) on Tuesday October 10, 2006 @11:48AM (#16378725) Homepage Journal
    If Google keeps YouTube as a separate corporation owned by Google, are they insulated from its liability?
    Technically the Google-YouTube deal was a merger, so no.
  • by pla ( 258480 ) on Tuesday October 10, 2006 @02:12PM (#16381069) Journal
    You confuse purpose with implementation.

    And communism could work, in theory.

    Yes, in an ideal world, some form of extremely limited IP law seems like a good idea. In practice, every exclusionary granting of certain rights and benefits to one person/group over another has rapidly degenerated into a self-perpetuating polarization of "haves" and "have-nots".



    And what if someone removed your means to "get yours" to begin with?
    [...]
    What if you are an author? You want someone to copy your work whole and pass it off as their own?

    What, before I wrote it? ;-)

    And yes, actually, if I wrote a book and made enough to comfortably retire on, have fun gnawing on the leftovers, it harms me not at all. And if I don't have the popularity of someone like JK Rowling who could retire after her one well-known series (itself massively ripped off from another author, ironically (in the context of this topic) enough)? Then (as I do in reality) I'd damned well better not quit my day job, even if that day job means writing a new book every year or two.



    You might be ok with that but who the hell are you to tell me I should be too?

    "I" form the culture that you draw 99% of even the most creative and new ideas from; "I" give you an audience to sell to. And even under our current system (at least as intended, if not the farce we have now), "I" have granted you a metacontractual limited monopoly on what you borrowed from my culture, for the purpose of enriching that culture as a form of repayment-with-interest.

    You have one, and only one, natural "right" as a petulant means of depriving me of your ideas - Keep them to yourself. If you don't like those terms, don't create. Simple as that.
  • Re:They wish (Score:3, Insightful)

    by monkeydo ( 173558 ) on Tuesday October 10, 2006 @02:12PM (#16381081) Homepage
    And what does my reply say about selling? Nothing. You can't republish someone else's book and insert ads, even if you give the book away. This is similar to what YouTube and Google videos do. These sites have claimed protection up until now under the DMCA (wait, I thought the DMCA was all bad?) which provides a defense as long as the content is removed as soon as the host is notified by the copyright holder. However, a court could certainly decide that YouTube is encouraging the use of their service to infringe copyright, and possibly still hold them liable.
  • by Spark00 ( 803383 ) on Tuesday October 10, 2006 @02:58PM (#16381841)
    It seems hypocritcal and draconian to think that if you put some form of art out into the world for people to consume with their personal wealth, that they not be able to do what they want with it as long as citation and reference to the original creator is noted accordingly.
    You don't get it. Copyright law has nothing to do with money - and everything to do with money. It is written to say that when an artist creates a work, and put it out for consumption, that's what we get to do - consume it. We don't get to use it as source material (other than through influence) for something else. It makes no difference if the kid in your example profits or not (or even if he CAN profit) because it is not about him or his profit. It is about the original artist. Because the little brat, even if he attributes correctly, is stealing from originators of that song. Not stealing money, but (ask an artist) something worse - his/her good name. Proof of that is in the very reason you'd use someone else's song in your work of art, because it evokes a certain feeling, a sensation, makes people think or feel a way etc. In other words they've done the heavy lifting of creating a work of art that has an effect on people, and you're borrowing the effect and hoping some of it smears off on whatever you've created. It's easy to say "oh that one-hit-wonder should shut up and enjoy the few extra iTMS downloads he's gettin' cos of this exposure." And yah maybe that's so. But should an artist shut up when some former KKK member is running for governor and uses his song as a campaign anthem? Of course not! The same laws that protect that artist and allow him to tell the nazi scumbag to cease and desist lest people thing the singer supports the nazi, allow the one-hit-wonder to tell your exemplar little Johnny to stoppit, and to tell youtube and google to pull that shit down. you are making the same mistake that others do, collapsing two arguments: 1) what do the copyright laws work to protect? 2) what SHOULD artists do with their work to encourage people to continue to enjoy it. The first one is a legal question, the second a philosophical one.

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