Publishers Thank Google for Book Sales 257
eldavojohn writes "A few book publishers are actually thanking Google for an apparent rise in sales due to Google's scan plan. Google is busy defending itself against authors and publishers that have brought lawsuits for ignoring copyrights. The director of the Oxford University Press said, 'Google Book Search has helped us turn searchers into consumers.' It seems to work in favor of the smaller publishers: 'Walter de Gruyter/Mouton-De Gruyter, a German publisher, said its encyclopedia of fairy tales has been viewed 471 times since appearing in the program, with 44 percent of them clicking on the 'buy this book' Google link.' Do you think that Google's 'sneak peak' search access increases sales or violates copyrights on intellectual property?"
Glad we all agree (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Yes. (Score:2, Informative)
In the case of public domain works, google provides the complete text (no different than the guttenberg (sp) project. I for one fully support this effort as far too many people DON'T read more than what is required. This may encourage more people to read the complete work (not part of the argument, but it is a peeve of mine)
In the case of copy writed works, they provide an exerpt of the work, not the complete work. (yes, they scan the entire thing because there is no way for a search to be effective, but publicly available).
I can see how some publishers may complain. "Hey, you are copying my book"
But really that is not the case. Fairuse I believe goes into the same scheme.(if I am at the library and decide I want to photocopy the whole bloody thing, (provided I have enough money) I can do so. Things fall into the illegal realm if I make several copies of said work and start distrubuting them or worse, selling them (which just compounds the crime). This argument is akin to having an photographic memory and reciting lines from the book in response to someone's questions. (umm.. ironically no complaints about Amazon, B&N, Alibris, etc. who provide this exact same functionality on a smaller scale).
I for one, applaude Google's efforts because its sorely needed. The big publishers are worried because they THINK they are loosing money (something like how the RIAA thinks they are loosing money with all the MP3's floating about when in fact, almost every study shows this actually increases sales and exposure because much of the target audience doesn't have the cash (or luxary of time) to sample every CD out there to find their likes. This notion of "copywrite" laws is a pretext to fight this. But like most such cases, it hinges on the notion of "harm done" which is why their is such a rant about "stealing" and "its depriving the artists of their money" (when I think most artists would agree, the Publishers/RIAA have been doing for years. (and like most criminal groups, they don't like it when someone intrudes on their turf))
As some of the smaller publishers already realize (and ironically the same is true with the smaller music groups/bands) all this "information exchange" actually HELPS by exposure at the least.
Oh well, lets hope they get smart soon.. but somehow I doubt it. (stupidity does seem to be infectious, and no one wants to take the cure).
Re:Yes. (Score:5, Informative)
Another incorrect assertion. Rights are things that we accept exist regardless of anything the government or anyone else wants to say about it. Copyright is not one of these things. Free speech is a constitutional right, and as such falls between the two areas. It took the constitution to grant this creation, but as we hold it higher than the government or anyone else, its still a right. Property ownership is as a natural right -- almost all creatures, not just humans, have this sense of what is 'theirs' and what isn't. Locke would say that the forest belongs to no one, but once he has felled a tree, the log is his.
Privileges are things that exist only when the government or another higher power says you can have it. Copyright falls under this category, despite the presence of 'right' in the compound. You'll note that before copyright existed, many forms of art and publication still existed -- but Plato never enjoyed the privilege of copyright.
In short, rights define the rules around which a government may exist. The government defines the rules around which privileges may exist. There is a definite chain of command here, and rights are most certainly at the top of the list.
~Rebecca
Re:A whole encyclopedia? (Score:3, Informative)
Following the summary for link #1, I got this: http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN3110082012&
Maybe that's the one you're looking for.
I don't think they're violating copyright (Score:3, Informative)
I think most copyright laws have a clause in it that you can use excerpts from a book but not a whole book as long as you note the source of your information with the excerpt. This means that I can use a page out of a book and use it in my essay without having to pay copyrights for the whole book (would become even more expensive for students and other academia) or even copy it from the library aka from a book I don't own myself.
The same happens here. Google gives you the possibility to search for a phrase, displays which book it comes from and a small portion of the book where the phrase is displayed. It's not like they are giving the whole book to you as soon as you find the phrase. They don't steal the book, they get it out of the library, scan it in, OCR it and then if they find a phrase in that book you search for, they display you the particular page, but not the whole book. Just like I can go to the library, scan/copy the whole book (if I have money enough for paper/copies) and then use a single page in my essay.
Re:Yes. (Score:5, Informative)
obviously this idea simply isn't enough. Publishers don't care that their copyright is being violated, they just want some extra money without doing much work.
Actually, bookstores *are* consignment shops (Score:5, Informative)
Not only that, authors share the risk. They only get royalties on books that customers actually buy, not on copies *shipped to* bookstores.
Even more fun, the bookstore gets as much of the total retail price of the book -- about 50% -- as the publisher and author combined.
It's a sick system, especially for the authors, which is why so many of us (I've written three books) are starting to look into alternative publishing and distribution channels.
- Robin
Re:Actually, bookstores *are* consignment shops (Score:2, Informative)
Google Books is actually two programs (Score:3, Informative)
Do you think that Google's 'sneak peak' search access increases sales or violates copyrights on intellectual property?"
Most people seem to be unaware that Google Books is actually two programs, which were originally named Google Publisher and Google Library. Google Publisher contains books submitted by the publisher, and the publisher has granted Google the right to display some percentage of the book, and are listed as Limited Preview in the Google search results. This increases sales but does not violate copyright, presuming that the publisher's contract with the author allows then to advertise in this method (if not, that's between the author and publisher).
Google Library, on the other hand, are from books borrowed from libraries, scanned by Google, without permission from the copyright holder. If a Google Library book is in the public domain (mainly US books prior to 1923, or foreign books prior to 1909), the entire book is displayed, and is listed as Full View in the Google search results, this is unlikely to increase sales, and does not violate copyright. Google Library books not in the public domain (actually, some are in public domain due to copyright holders not making the required copyright renewal, but Google is not interested in doing the research), then the book is only displayed in Snippet View, 3 lines per search hit. The snippets themselves would not violate copyright, as they are small enough that they would likely qualify as fair use, no matter what. However, what the publishers and authors (represented by the Author's Guild) are claiming, is that any complete digital scan without the permission of the copyright holder, for whatever purpose (especially one when the book is borrowed rather than purchased) is a copyright infringement. Google is arguing that since they are not using the books directly, but simply using the scans to provide fair use snippets, it meets enough of the 4 rules the courts use to determine fair use. Most of the books in snippet view are out of print, so it's not likely that snippet view increases sales anywhere near the amount a limited preview does. IANAL, but I think the publishers and especially the authors will win a pyrrhic victory should the courts decide in their favor.