Want to read Slashdot from your mobile device? Point it at m.slashdot.org and keep reading!

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×

Magnetic Ring Could Launch Satellites, Weapons 612

MattSparkes writes, "A new study funded by the US Air Force has suggested a cheaper method of sending satellites (possibly missile weapons) into orbit. A 2-km-wide ring of superconducting magnets would contain and propel a payload, accelerating it over a period of hours, before suddenly flinging the satellite into space at 23 times the speed of sound. The satellites would be engineered to withstand the g-forces encountered (2,000 g), and be cased in an aerodynamic shell. A two-year study has been commisioned and will begin within a few weeks at LaunchPoint Technologies in Goleta, California." New Scientist points out that if such a launch ring were built, it would instantly become "one of the most important targets on the planet."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Magnetic Ring Could Launch Satellites, Weapons

Comments Filter:
  • by Churla ( 936633 ) on Tuesday October 03, 2006 @02:45PM (#16295293)
    Am I the only one seeing the parallel?
  • by ackthpt ( 218170 ) * on Tuesday October 03, 2006 @02:48PM (#16295317) Homepage Journal

    that gauss density could be fatal and/or affect instruments.

    I know there's a relationship between bird migration and magnetic fields, too, as a lot of them blindly smack into the brick walls at a local MRI center.

  • by ruiner13 ( 527499 ) on Tuesday October 03, 2006 @02:50PM (#16295373) Homepage
    Personally, I am not that sure I'd want anything with nuclear fuel (such as some satellites have these days) being accelerated to mach 23 on or near land, let alone trusting the casing to withstand 2000g. Is this a solution looking for a problem? I also wonder how much energy it would use to do such a thing compared to the energy expended launching the payload using a conventional solid/liquid fuel rocket.
  • A few points (Score:5, Insightful)

    by argStyopa ( 232550 ) on Tuesday October 03, 2006 @03:04PM (#16295603) Journal
    First the FUD:
    New Scientist points out that if such a launch ring were built, it would instantly become "one of the most important targets on the planet.
    What a moronic comment.

    You have a STATIC launcher.
    It can toss things into ballistic trajectories.
    One at a time.
    With a warm-up of TENS OF HOURS.

    I don't know if New Scientist realized this, but we have launch technologies that are
    a) less vulnerable
    b) more accurate
    c) mobile
    and
    d) a little quicker to fire than that.

    On another note, and not that this will mollify the crowd that fears a weapon in every technology, but in regards to the difficulty of punching something through the atmosphere at Mach 23, I seem to recall SDI experiments where a high-power laser was used to heat a 'track' through the atmosphere (in that case, to fire a particle beam weapon down the track with less atmospheric attenuation ). Couldn't a similar idea significantly reduce the air resistance for this sort of a projectile?
  • Re:Lost in space (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mypalmike ( 454265 ) on Tuesday October 03, 2006 @03:05PM (#16295621) Homepage
    I can't see any drawbacks in dumping nuclear waste into space.

    Indeed. Also, accelerating it in a 2km circle over several hours to 23 times the speed of sound is not fraught with peril.
  • by Lightborn ( 7556 ) on Tuesday October 03, 2006 @03:11PM (#16295703)
    2000g is the expected angular acceleration.
  • Re:A few points (Score:2, Insightful)

    by dswartz ( 749795 ) on Tuesday October 03, 2006 @03:16PM (#16295829)
    How can a laser follow a ballistic trajectory?
  • by PHAEDRU5 ( 213667 ) <instascreed.gmail@com> on Tuesday October 03, 2006 @03:17PM (#16295849) Homepage
    You mean, like Vandenberg, and Cape Kennedy, and...

    Anywhere the capability exists to put a payload into orbit is a target.

    That "most important target" bit was a simple piece of scaremongering.
  • by mrchaotica ( 681592 ) * on Tuesday October 03, 2006 @03:20PM (#16295899)

    You forget that it's circular. It's accelerating by changing direction as well as increasing speed.

  • by Jon Luckey ( 7563 ) on Tuesday October 03, 2006 @03:22PM (#16295929)
    How long do you think that straight track would have to be to obviate the need for high-g payloads? (Hint: *very* long)

    It could be made more economical by making it dual use. Build it between two important land sites. Then it can also be used for cargo. Acceleration for 50% of the travel time, 50% deceleration transports cargo between point A and point B. 100% acceleration is an orbital launch.

    But an addtional advantage to a ring is that it gives you basically a 360 circle of choice for launch directions. A linear accelerator gives you basically two.
  • Gerald Bull (Score:4, Insightful)

    by freelunch ( 258011 ) on Tuesday October 03, 2006 @03:23PM (#16295953)
    The article and basic approach remind me of Gerald Bull's work [std.com] and his disturbing tale of doom as documented on the Doomed Engineers site [std.com]:

    Gerald Bull had a vision and an obsession, a vision that led to estrangement from his native Canada, prison in America, and ultimately assassination by Israel. His vision was of an entirely new way to get into space: small rockets boosted by giant guns. To achieve it he worked for some of the worst regimes on earth: South Africa, China, and ultimately Iraq. His work affected the course of two modern wars and revived the ancient field of artillery.
  • Re:Lost in space (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Jerf ( 17166 ) on Tuesday October 03, 2006 @03:38PM (#16296263) Journal
    Nuclear waste is dangerous, but it's not magically dangerous. If we send it up in sufficiently small loads, scattering one across what is probably an isolated area isn't going to be the end of the world. We can clean it up; it doesn't magically contaminate everything it touches for ever and ever with no ability to clean it up. It's just a hazardous material.

    Plus, the containers are already going to have to be strong just to survive normal stresses. I wouldn't be surprised that they already will be specced to survive most catastrophic releases.

    I say this because it's important that people not think that radioactive waste is so magically dangerous that we always need to add "just one more layer" of protection before we're somehow 100% from the radioactivity bogeyman, and thus never take advantage of one of the better energy sources we have. It's an engineering problem, nothing more.

    Ultimately, this point is moot, because the general public already does see radioactivity as magically dangerous and the magical thinkers are going to put themselves into the situation where they'd rather have the (magically dangerous) waste with them on the planet, but out of sight, rather than actually removed from our living space, but briefly and highly-visibly in the air. ... There's a reason I keep coming back to the word "magical". Nothing makes even normally rational, scientifically-minded people unhinge their minds like adding the word "radioactive" to the discussion.
  • Re:Lost in space (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Alef ( 605149 ) on Tuesday October 03, 2006 @03:38PM (#16296269)
    At $200 each (plus cremation) I am sure they could sell a few thousand of these per year.

    Well, a few thousand cremated bodies would probably fit inside one single launch, so you would need millions to get that price. Because I seriously doubt the $189/kg figure assumes 1 kg payload/launch.

  • by Dan Ost ( 415913 ) on Tuesday October 03, 2006 @03:45PM (#16296411)
    Soft tissue (brians, organs) would be the first to go.
    Bones are pretty tough.
  • by compro01 ( 777531 ) on Tuesday October 03, 2006 @03:56PM (#16296611)
    The speed has nothing to do with it. Gravities are a unit of acceleration. They could probably accelerate a person in the same way with similar apparatus at a reasonable 2-3 gees, but it would take much longer before they had enough velocity to get out of the atmosphere.

    but since we're going in a circle, speed would have a very important effect. the acceleration pushing you back in your seat (the 2-3 gees you mentioned) might not be harmful, but the centrifigural acceleration pushing you out from the centre of the circle could be, as going by the article, you'd be moving at about 28,000 kph, so i would imagine that force could be rather substantial.
  • by truthsearch ( 249536 ) on Tuesday October 03, 2006 @03:58PM (#16296655) Homepage Journal
    A few reasons... the ring is kilometers long. Angling it at 30 degrees would force you to build it deep into the ground, high into the air, or both. But more importantly you'd only have one launch trajectory. By having one ring and a mobile launch tunnel you have 360 degrees to choose from (ideally). The ability to change launch direction is probably more important than the complications it adds to the launch physics.
  • Re:A few points (Score:2, Insightful)

    by nasch ( 598556 ) on Tuesday October 03, 2006 @04:03PM (#16296741)
    Just because it isn't a weapon doesn't mean it isn't a target. I'm not saying it would be a target, but your argument doesn't prove that it wouldn't be.
  • Why electronics? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by cfulmer ( 3166 ) on Tuesday October 03, 2006 @04:04PM (#16296749) Journal
    Geez... There are all sorts of things that you might want to fling into space where you don't really care that much about being gentle. For example, use it to fling food and water up to the space station.
  • by Bob-taro ( 996889 ) on Tuesday October 03, 2006 @04:11PM (#16296867)
    Just fill the passenger compartment (and passenger's lungs) with an 02 saturated liquid and accelleration ceases to be an issue.
    Sounds good at first, but look what happens in a lab centrifuge -- you'd probably wind up with all your tissues separated into layers of equal density (with the "O2 saturated liquid" somewhere in the middle)!
  • by demonbug ( 309515 ) on Tuesday October 03, 2006 @04:12PM (#16296895) Journal
    The change in gravity going up 14,000 feet or whatever is pretty miniscule. Locating it (or at least the departure point) at a high elevation would help significantly with air resistance, though.

    But as the article pointed out, this could also be used to launch intercontinental weapons - so assuming it is the U.S. building it, they probably aren't going to want it located outside the U.S.

    Assuming the inside of the ring is kept at near-vacuum (otherwise they'd be losing a hell of a lot of energy to drag, so I assume that's what they plan - I don't think the article actually said) you could probably design the loop on an incline, say up the side of a mountain, but you'd need a pretty gentle slope (otherwise you'd need a huge structure to maintain a constant curvature of the ring as you near the top of the mountain) - something like the Hawaiian shields would probably work pretty well (but I somehow doubt the population of the Big Island, never mind the observatories at the tops of the dormant volcanoes, would be real happy about launching something at 23 times the speed of sound 10 times a day - might be a little noisy).
  • by MConlon ( 246624 ) on Tuesday October 03, 2006 @04:42PM (#16297271)
    Of course, there's going to be a bit of bump when the capsule hits the atmosphere, and there's also the bit of a trick about getting the thing oriented so the capsule if flung upward...

    You don't need to fling the capsule upwards, you need to fling it horizontally such that it doesn't hit anything. To get into orbit you do not go "up", you go sideways as fast as you can. The advantages of being high up are:

    1. the atmosphere is thinner which means there is less aerodynamic drag on your vehicle, and
    2. there are less things to hit.

    Being "in orbit" is essentially falling without ever hitting the ground.

    MJC
  • by Intron ( 870560 ) on Tuesday October 03, 2006 @04:56PM (#16297463)
    5 gees for 3 minutes would give you 8820 m/s, plenty of speed for LEO and be sustainable for a person.

    You would need 1/2 * 5 * 9.8 * 180^2 = 800 km of track

    Of course, a hybrid approach using a rocket assist after launch could make the track shorter.
  • by theshowmecanuck ( 703852 ) on Tuesday October 03, 2006 @05:01PM (#16297531) Journal
    Only if your bouyancy is zero and there are no external forces acting on your system. Take blood cells in blood for example: put the blood in a centrafuge and spin it up to speed. The blood cells end up in the bottom of the test tube. That would be you in the launch ring. Except at many thousand Gs, you would look more like the blood cells in the bottom of the test tube than like you.
  • by Tango42 ( 662363 ) on Tuesday October 03, 2006 @05:04PM (#16297587)
    At least read the summary:

    "and be cased in an aerodynamic shell"

    So, yes, it's a problem, but it's one they've noticed and considered. It will have to be a very impressive aerodynamic shell to withstand travelling at escape velocity through ground level air pressures, but it's purely an engineering problem, not a physics one.
  • by A nonymous Coward ( 7548 ) * on Tuesday October 03, 2006 @05:11PM (#16297683)
    The friction from rising thru the atmosphere would leave a significant signature for all to see.
  • by cmholm ( 69081 ) <cmholmNO@SPAMmauiholm.org> on Tuesday October 03, 2006 @09:08PM (#16300085) Homepage Journal
    The down fall is that the privatization world will probably be a bit upset about this.

    The current crop of privateers, yes. If a space-oriented VC could envisage a suitable marketing plan, this would be the ideal private space infrastructure project. Most of the existing cheaper-faster-better startups focus merely on making a cheaper tube 'o fuel. Our current crop of missile makers are still basically building their product by hand. When a launch vehicle and payload go BOOM, a good portion of the contractor's and customer's capital goes with it. It's like watching the auto industry before Ford.

    If a Paul Allen or consortium were to bankroll something like this, they wouldn't be betting the farm on each test launch.

If you have a procedure with 10 parameters, you probably missed some.

Working...