Zune's Wireless Almost Totally Worthless 442
mikesd81 writes to mention an article at Engadget exploring what the Zune's wireless is good for. It turns out that, at least for now, that's not much. From the article: "You can search for and find other Zunes nearby. You can send songs / albums for the 3 x 3 trial. Songs past the three days / listens are deleted at next sync, but catalogued on your PC for record-keeping should you want to purchase them later. No word on whether Microsoft is going to keep track of which files are traded. You can send and receive image files for 'unlimited viewing.' (Oh, so copyrighted images aren't worth DRMing?) You can't: Connect to the internet, Download songs directly from the Zune store via WiFi, Sync to your computer via WiFi."
Makes me wonder (Score:5, Insightful)
selling music via wireless (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Makes me wonder (Score:3, Insightful)
They get the same shitty pay-cheque from the record company as always. The record company executives, on the other hand, are starving in the gutters.
Hey, a man can dream...
It won't take long... (Score:2, Insightful)
Almost totally useless _for users_ (Score:3, Insightful)
For the major stakeholders, i.e. IP holders, it's quite useful. It's just useless to _people_.
I, for one, am happy and proud to be part of this next Microsoft step into the 'products that people actively try and avoid' space. Further initiatives are to include a portable game platform that makes the sound of a crying baby, and a new mouse that randomly fires blasts of deadly, mutagenic radiation, all the time, for no reason. Also Vista.
It's all a difference in philosophy. Old Microsoft was about _giving_ people what they wanted, in the hope that they would then _give_ money in return. They would send people out who would discover needs (like the need for a Euro sign character, which the planet's committees and standards groups never grasped the point of) and then fulfil those needs. This kinda sorta worked a bit, but it was a bit pedestrian. Since 2000, New Microsoft has been focusing on actively _taking_ money out of the marketplace and _avoiding_ giving value in return. The Zune is part of this -- see, it has complex and interesting features, but they're there to prevent you from extracting value from it. It's like when they suddenly started charging for the Office /
Basically, what MS understands that nobody else on the planet really grasps is that V + P = K, where:
V = value delivered to the rest of the world
P = profit for MS
K = some constant
See how decreasing V is just like increasing P? It's brilliant once you get it. So this Zune serves to drive V down just a little bit further. Next step? PROFIT!!!
When I say 'profit' I must admit I mean 'ever decreasing relevancy'. But that's because I'm not a technical visionary like Steve Ballmer.
Re:So? (Score:1, Insightful)
What a delightfully ignorant statement. Actually you are totally wrong, DRM is here and for the short/medium term, it's here to stay. So when "yet another media player with DRM fails" it's actually BAD for the consumer because there is ONE media player with DRM out there that is succeeding. Your scenario ONLY works if a) that "other" DRM'ed player also fails b) some non-DRM player happens to succeed (but since it wouldn't be able to legally play a significant portion of the content that most people want to hear, it's hard to imagine this scenario occuring). So, what do we have then. Well we have no weakening of the dominant player, and therefore no weakening of consumer acceptance of DRM, but we also have 0/zip/zilch/nada competition for said player. What a bright beautiful world you paint. You know, it's no wonder that you have nothing better to do than post on
Unrealistic? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Makes me wonder (Score:5, Insightful)
Nice try AC, but they get paid for this content because with the increased sharing, people are exposed to much more new music than they normally would (think P2P effect on speed), and therefore find more bands they like and want to support. Thus, they end up going to see more live shows, and purchasing more merchandise.
For the bands that are smart enough to go with a label that supports sharing, or are Indie, they will thrive because thats where the majority of their income came from in the past and this would amplify that. Remember, traditionally bands really make their money touring, not from music sales which the labels gouge them on.
Re:Good idea, badly implemented (Score:3, Insightful)
Why the hell would I want a WIFI enable device if I can't even connect it to an AP or AD-HOC it to my notebook, it makes it really useless.
My Phone has bluetooth on it, and I sync it with my notebook wirlessly to change my playlists or archive my messages, its fantastic and its really got me to use the MP3 player in it. I don't think ill need to by the Zune if it can't even do what my phone can.
How about illegal pictures? (Score:5, Insightful)
What if someone uses a poisoned mp3-file (initially sounds like a very low volume, current pop hit, then abruptly cuts to full volume static or sheetmetal noise)? In most other P2P communities there is either a central oversight (torrents) or a user community rating system (like in eMule) to avoid such malicious behaviour - will Microsoft take responsibility?
Oh, and another thing: Can you imitate a zune using a WLAN access point and send out files this way? Certainly there is right now no software available to do that, but think of the opportunities in the future: stores sending targeted high-tech-ad-jingles or catalog pages to all zune owners in range; anarchists distributing (audio) versions of the anarchists cookbook or recipes for drugs or explosives; political offices sending the (audio) equivalent of leaflets to everyone passing by...
Sounds like a really great idea, if there's anything people want then that's more spam!
Re:Makes me wonder (Score:2, Insightful)
People said the same thing about Windows, Xbox etc (Score:1, Insightful)
Now Windows is the dominant OS in both the desktop and server market.
The first Xbox was able to even displace the mighty Nintendo in the console market, and the 360 is doing gangbusters.
When will people learn to NEVER count Microsoft out of anything they get into. They may make a few mistakes along the way, but when they want to be in a market, they eventually succeed.
People also seem to forget how upgradable the OS and firmware is on the Zune as well... how soon before you CAN browse and wirelessly synch?
Let me tell you what kind of world would it be (Score:3, Insightful)
Thanks to RIAA, MPAA, and other similar shit, we arent living in such a world.
The Zune Itself Is Worthless (Score:2, Insightful)
I just don't see how Microsoft can turn this one into a winner unless Apple drops the ball Sony style. They haven't been successful yet in leveraging their desktop dominance to drive customers away from the iTMS. You know they'll try with Vista but I don't think that will have much of an effect on consumer's portable music player of choice or their online music store of choice. People have already made their bed when it comes to purchasing DRM'd music online. People who have bought from Apple will stick with Apple unless they really drop the ball because of Apple's DRM. People that have gone with Microsoft DRM will stick with devices that can handle Microsoft DRM because they have to. So when you really think about it, the Zune is a bigger threat to companies that have patterned with Microsoft by supporting Microsoft's DRM than it is to Apple.
This is news? (Score:3, Insightful)
What new tidbit of information was revealed here, exactly?
Wireless Speed (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The Zune Itself Is Worthless (Score:3, Insightful)
If it works well for pictures it's great already (Score:3, Insightful)
Sounds good (and diabolically clever) to me (Score:5, Insightful)
A lot depends on just how that three-day limit works. If you give a song to a friend and it expires, can you give it to him/her again?
I think quite a lot of music might get sold on the basis of short-term trials when the music was, in fact, recommended by a friend.
I can also see a lot of social gratification in being the first kid on the block to have paid for and bought a hot new tune, and therefore being the one who's in the position of being able to give trial versions to everyone else. (If Microsoft is smart, you will be able to give fresh trials over and over. Then the kids who haven't bought the music need to repeatedly go to the kid who has, in order to get their new time-limited free copies.) All of this in turn provides powerful reinforcement for wanting to buy the tune and be the go-to kid.
Actually, you want to do it in a hurry. If kid A gives you a free trial version, and you can afford to buy it, you'd want to buy it quickly, so there are still kids whom A hasn't given it to yet—kids for whom you can be the wealthy song-dispensing patron.
Furthermore, if there are a fair number of Zunes in play in a social group, then the kids with iPods are excluded... they see the kids with Zunes trading tunes and they're out of it, even if the kids with Zunes are their personal friends.
And I don't think these kids are going to spend much time stripping DRM from their music or exploiting the analog hole or anything like that.
The big "if" is whether the Zune garners enough critical mass for any of this to happen. If only two kids in school have Zunes and neither of them is interested in being a social patron of the other, it isn't going to work.
Mind you, this isn't what I want from a "wireless" mp3 player. But that doesn't mean it won't be effective.
Re:Makes me wonder (Score:3, Insightful)
We have had artists and musicians for a few thousand years now. They produced some pretty good stuff without worrying about DRM.
"leave the new stuff for artists to make a living."
That statement confuses me. Is there some secret stash of new music that artists go to when they need a song? Or are you saying that only newly written songs should make money? How about old songs with new recordings? Old songs in a new package?
There are some strong examples of recording artists who made very little from selling albums, but got filthy rich by touring. The good thing about that model is that it means the labels and the RIAA get squat.
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Makes me wonder (Score:2, Insightful)
It never ceases to amaze me how many excuses people can come up with to not pay for somebody's intellectual property. If you want to own a song, PAY for the bloody thing. If you want to watch a movie, stop pissing your money away on Dorito's and Big Gulps and buck up! Don't pretend that you're standing on a soapbox against Corporate America, musicians who so arrogantly want to get paid for their work, RIAA/MPAA, or anybody else. The fact is, you're just being cheap weazels who can get away with something, and then parrot the self-justifying crap that the other thieving weazels have spouted. I'd be willing to bet that 99% of the people who steal music, movies, and software have never contributed anything to the OSS/intellectual property realm beyond their unfinished Star Wars VII script and a couple of blog postings on Jessica Alba's ass.
I agree that DRM sucks, and rootkits and corporation's dull witted approach to protecting their property sucks too. But the *reason* this stuff exists is because of the weasels like Lord_Dweomer who steal and justify more regularly than evangelists sin and repent.
Justify all you want, but a low-life is a low-life no matter how good or common his excuses might be.
Re:So? (Score:3, Insightful)
Trouble with idea (Score:3, Insightful)
Given all the things you mention are obvious to anyone technical, it doesn't seem like a great idea at all - does it? Why on earth did the designers include it when you know it also made the case that much larger?
I really can't figure this device out. Knowing how the Zune is an MS only device (Linux and Mac users need not apply), its seems likely to me the reason for zune is an "get locked into MS Windows/ Windows Media Player".
I'm with you there, it's like Microsoft had on the monopoly glasses for this one and only saw how Apple managed to keep people using iPods while missing the fact Apple didn't tie users to any given OS (even Linux users can make use of an iPod).
Re:Makes me wonder (Score:4, Insightful)
"The study of economics proposes that people respond to incentives"
---
"According to the econodwarf's vision, each human being is an individual possessing "incentives," which can be retrospectively unearthed by imagining the state of the bank account at various times. So in this instance the econodwarf feels compelled to object that without the rules I am lampooning, there would be no incentive to create the things the rules treat as property: without the ability to exclude others from music there would be no music, because no one could be sure of getting paid for creating it."
"The dwarf's basic problem is that "incentives" is merely a metaphor, and as a metaphor to describe human creative activity it's pretty crummy"
http://emoglen.law.columbia.edu/my_pubs/anarchism
Re:Makes me wonder (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Trouble with Wifi? (Score:4, Insightful)
It's not about immediate profit, it's about control. Someone is making money in a computer-related market, and Microsoft doesn't control it. They have no piece of the iTunes/iPod action, and apparently they don't like that. They'll be willing to lose money on the venture all the way up until they've established control, and then they'll rake users over the coals once users have been locked into the Microsoft platform.
That's what Microsoft is after these days-- an all inclusive end-to-end dominance on anything resembling a computer. Handhelds, MP3 players, servers, desktops, refrigerators, web browsers, e-mail, game consoles, etc. The result will be that, any emerging computer market, no matter what the market is, will need to go through Microsoft, and Microsoft will dominate it.
Microsoft is not in the business of providing consumer products or OEM software-- they're in the business of dominating markets and eliminating competition.
Re:Makes me wonder (Score:2, Insightful)
"Indoctrination" vs "Pop Culture"
Re:Makes me wonder (Score:3, Insightful)
You don't even need a source of electricity. Put the needle (a real needle, just a sharpened sliver of steel) in the groove and spin the plater. Sound comes out. The process is purely mechanical, not even electromechanical. Electromechanical cartridges are to send an electrical signal to an amplifier, not simply to reproduce the sound.
In early days these things were sold from the back of a van, i.e. a covered wagon.
And because the recording is a phonograph, i.e. it is a visible analog recording, even imaging technology can be used to recover the data.
KFG
Re:23rd Century (Score:4, Insightful)
There is a fair amount of material that is not DRM'd.
If you look at the past of human history, you see societies that we know lots about, and societies we know little about.
The societies we know lots about wrote material down in not particularly difficult to translate media.
The societies we know little about wrote down little, and what they did write was indicperiable. They remain a mystery.
Phish, for example, will last for a long time, regardless of whether or not people like it. It's DRM free for copying, so it can remain alive forever.
Metallica, on the other hand, will vanish in the sands of history, because no one will bother with a player that can run the discs, and after the last encryption code vanishes, no one will bother to decrypt it, except as a potential academic product in the annals of some obscure journal.
We won't see the whole 20th century go into the darkness. We will see GPL code that lives in the future as library/museum type stuff, while Windows will only live on in pictures/videos.
Re:Sounds good (and diabolically clever) to me (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, cause nothing seems cooler to kids today than paying for music.
Re:Makes me wonder (Score:1, Insightful)
Alternative explanation why DRM exists: The 'Weasels' ALWAYS find a way to get their free non-DRM copies regardless of DRM.
The DRM only exists to screw over the 'honest but clueless' consumers who buy a copy for their 'plays-for-sure' player, then get a 'Zune' and find they need to repurchase because it doesn't 'play for sure' and subsequently buy an Ipod and find they need to buy it again - so they buy a CD instead and find it won't rip for their Ipod because it's 'copy protected' and it won't even play in their car stereo because it rips internally to buffer the tracks.
DRM is intended to remove fair use from the average consumer; it doesn't and can't prevent large or small scale piracy, and in fact encourages some honest consumers to switch to illegal downloads etc. just to get back the fair use rights they have lost.
Re:Makes me wonder (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Wireless car adapters... (Score:3, Insightful)
Right, so you could get an iPod which requires an adaptor, aftermarket stereo, or new car, or you could get a Zune which... requires exactly the same thing, but is wireless so it can't be recharged by the car at the same time. So again, how is it better?
In other words, if you cam make the assumption that you had a car stereo with Zune support (not just Wi-Fi; it needs the proper software too), you can just as easily make the assumption that you had a car stereo with iPod support. In fact, the latter is actually a more reasonable assumption, since at least it already exists.
Re:Makes me wonder (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Makes me wonder (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Of course, for the iPod, people look the other (Score:3, Insightful)
The smartest people don't work making DRM schemes; the smartest people play at breaking DRM schemes.