Hollywood Says Piracy Has Ripple Effect 309
ColinPL writes to mention a Washington Post article about a new study backed by Hollywood on intellectual piracy. The study, which they're presenting to lawmakers today, claims that piracy has a ripple effect on the economy. According to the study, lost revenues may have as much as three times the impact previously imagined. From the article: "Lawmakers and federal agencies such as the Justice and State departments have helped Hollywood battle physical piracy -- specifically, counterfeit DVDs. But now the stakes are especially high for entertainment companies as they sell more of their products online in the form of digital songs, movies and other intellectual property. Internet piracy may be tougher for lawmakers to conceptualize, entertainment companies fear."
Wrong word... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Wrong word... (Score:5, Funny)
Merely three.,, (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Wrong word... Has to be said... (Score:5, Funny)
Inigo Montoya:, You keep using that word. I do not think it means, what you think it means.
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Re:Blockbuster clerks? (Score:4, Funny)
Coming soon to a head near you (Score:3, Interesting)
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nah, the pacific isn't all its cracked up to be, you should head for South America!
*shivers and hides while trying to discourage Americans from bringing strip mall, SUV's, NASCAR and Applebees to Fiji.*
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Sure it is! Everyone knows that R'lyeh is at the bottom of the Pacific. Just hop on a ship, whip out the Necronomicon, and show these amateurs how world domination is REALLY carried out!
The entire movie industry (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:The entire movie industry (Score:5, Insightful)
"It's important to remember, however, that even though piracy prevents money from reaching the movie industry, those dollars probably stay in the economy, one intellectual property expert said."
Translation: It doesn't really matter if they take their made up number and multiply it by three. The economy wasn't hurt.
Ummmm, I don't think so. (Score:5, Funny)
I'm pretty sure that pirates bury their loot on tropical islands.
Re:The entire movie industry (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, quite the opposite. Considering that the IP industries are particularly inefficient in their production as protected entities, the economy as a whole _gains_ from the failure to enforce their monopoly priviliges.
Piracy means the economy as a whole gains _both_ the wealth inherent in an extra copy of a certain material for the particular consumer _plus_ the wealth inherent in whatever else the money is spent on.
Translation: The numbers made up by the industries are completely irrelvant, IP is merely a method of redistributing wealth to achieve a specific purpose, similar to taxes, and as such the only interesting measure is wether a) the money actually goes to it's intended recipient and b) wether it's an efficient use of resources.
It's still a loss (Score:2)
Re:The entire movie industry (Score:5, Informative)
Do your part for the War on Terror now, download some
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When you put money in the bank, the bank invests it.
In theory, this generates returns on investment (ROI).
If ROI > the interest the bank pays you, everybody wins.
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Re:The entire movie industry (Score:5, Funny)
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"Here, take it. My dentist will be much happier if you eat it."
"Here, take it. I'm the one who will be losing weight."
"Here, take it. Diabetes is no fun."
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Re:The entire movie industry (Score:5, Funny)
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I just bring my own. The lowly theater workers have yet to stop me. If they try, I'll demand my money back for my ticket and go download it instead. Despite being afraid of being stopped and having this argument ready, I've yet to need it.
Besides, I've heard that the candy/popcorn/soda is where the theater really makes its money, not the tickets. So you know the candy companies aren't getting shit.
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Personally, I've got no problem paying the prices for the soda and popcorn, but I've got to draw the line at the candy. 5x retail is just a wee bit too much.
My favorite theater so far was one in Portland that makes its
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More on the Study (Score:5, Funny)
They interviewed a crew hand from Waterworld and, aside from forcing him out of a job, the unnamed victim reported that piracy forcefully entered his home and raped him in front of his youngest son. Piracy has taken not only his source of income but also the joy that he and his son once shared.
The report concludes with piracy being at large and dangerous. Piracy is capable of flipping bits in a pattern that resembles music and is also known to cause cancer.
So when are lawmakers presented with the Piracy Is Actually Pretty Bitching for Consumers report? What about the Economics Research is Bullshit & Baseless report? Oh, that's right, the other side of the issue never gets to hear it's voice heard and no alternatives will ever be explored. Silly me.
Re:More on the Study (Score:5, Interesting)
Caption of the picture:
Pirated-movie distribution operations such as this one in New York mean a loss to industry of about $20.5 billion per year, lost opportunities for about 140,000 new jobs and $800 million in lost tax revenue, the study says. (Recording Industry Association Of America Via Associated Press)
60% of piracy has NOTHING to do with the internet
XYZ x 60% = ~$20.5 billion
Despite that, the MPAA does exactly what the RIAA has been doing with its plethora of lawsuits aimed at filesharing instead of targeting counterfeiters.
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Easier to crea... collect evidence and pursue... heck, none of them have to leave their offices to do it, whereas somebody selling physical disks, ya gotta actually catch 'em at it, get 'em to sell you a disk or 3, and so on. File sharers, ya just gotta show some screenshot of your computer with some names of songs on it, point your finger, and yell real l
Not really much of a surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Not really much of a surprise... (Score:5, Insightful)
The more technical detail: it's the difference between a partial equilibrium and a general equilibrium model of the economy. In the partial model (the supply and demand curves we all know and love), you assume that you've completely modeled all relevant aspects of the economy, or rather, you assume nothing else matters. It's an incredibly useful approximation in many cases, but an approximation all the same. In general equilibrium, everything (theoretically) gets modeled--all the goods remotely related to entertainment, income, where income changes get spent, and so on.
The idiocy of these "ripple effect" arguments is that they're using partial equilibrium to derive general equilibria effects! In other words, they're using a model that assumes nothing else matters to draw conclusions about the very things the model says doesn't matter.
Re:Not really much of a surprise... (Score:4, Insightful)
Entirely true. The money spent on CD's, DVD's, Video Games, Movie tickets is not spent at Applebees, Disneyworld, Six Flags, US Forest Service, etc. The consumer has a limited income. It is either saved for retirement, spent on the requirements such as shelter, food, clothing, or entertainment. The expendible portion and it's ripple effect is a two way street. It makes a diffrence where the consumer spends the money. It is not a one way street of if the consumer spends the money or not.
If the percieved value for the money is not there and there is a piracy way to acquire the music, Then the money will be spent on someting of tangible value such as a concert ticket or an I-Pod.
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Betcha you'll come up with a whole lot of reasons involving employing hundreds of thousands of people counting breaths taken by the citizens everywhere.
The fact that those hundreds of thousands of people would be far more usefully employed elsewhere might even escape you completely. And such inconvenient facts like oxygen being produced b
Easy to make them conceptualize it. (Score:4, Insightful)
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Hollywood doesn't need to - despite all the ranting of the pro-piracy crowd attempting to divert attention from the fact they are committing a criminal act, the usage of "theft" and "piracy" in relation to copying and copyright infringement goes back centuries. It's the pro-piracy crowd thats trying to redefine words with perfectly understood meanings, not Hollywood and th
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Other things that have ripple effects. (Score:5, Insightful)
Sueing your audience.
Making your customers go through crap that people who don't pay don't have to go through.
Um... (Score:5, Insightful)
Ripple Effects... On DVD Purchases... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Then only spend it once - don't blame Hollywood for your own lack of self control.
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That's why I'm glad that no new movies have been any good. No worries about spending my money even once, let alone multiple times.
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I don't see that they need to... Anyone with the slightest amount of common sense and who has paid the slightest attention knows full well that is how the release schedule goes.
Re:Ripple Effects... On DVD Purchases... (Score:5, Insightful)
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And that right there is the problem. When you buy an improved DVD, you're double-paying. The original DVD purchase gets you a license to view the original movie any time you want. The new DVD purchase gets you a license to view the original movie + extended bits any time you want. So now you have two licenses to watch the original movie. You've double-paid.
Soft
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What extra features could possibly matter that much anyway?
-matthew
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-Rick
Ripple? (Score:5, Funny)
-matthew
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Re:Ripple? (Score:4, Funny)
Keyword here... (Score:5, Funny)
Need they say more?
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Need they say more?
Just one word more
See doesn't that look better
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Ripple effect? (Score:2)
lost revenues may have as much as three times the impact previously imagined
I see a bright future for cdr and dvdr sales. And Ipods. Eat it, Hollywood.
Piracy (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Piracy (Score:5, Funny)
That's a parroty error.
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You deserve to be modded up for the best frelling awful pun I've seen on
Another broken window argument (Score:5, Insightful)
In fact, it's the pirates who benefit the economy most, they produce the goods at a far lower cost, the benefit is far and wide, what is saved on music and videos can be spent on more important items.
Study finds need for more studies (Score:5, Insightful)
Doesn't make sense (Score:3, Funny)
(Pirates, Sunshine, Superman)
Consider the ripple effect of DRM (Score:2, Insightful)
they had to find some fud to backup their figures (Score:2)
I would love to see a week or better yet a month where "piracy" by their definition ceased to be. Friends didnt pass on mix tapes, no one downloaded a game or song, no one loaned out a book, no one tried to move their windows l
Champions of morality... (Score:5, Interesting)
-Walrus
Re:Champions of morality... (Score:5, Insightful)
Now that rebellion has returned home.
Hollywood can boo hoo hoo all they want to, but the truth is, you always reap what you sow.
Commercial copyright falling in value ? (Score:2, Interesting)
Now that anyone can record a song (that they wrote themselves) in their own home and distribute it over the Internet, isn't that going to reduce the value of the commercially-produced ones that the 'labels' make ? In effect, the 'control of the distribution channel' is gone, and we will be flooded with potentially-brilliant music for free (as advertising for band concerts, or as hobby).
To a lesser extent, it must be true of films, too. I don't think many individuals are capable of producing 'Star Wars' at
entertainment companies fear (Score:2)
Until they will listen to what we fear [regarding fair use, copying, drm, etc.] I don't really care what they fear. But then again, I'm no lawmaker, and they will listen and do everything to make that fear go away. It's our fears that remain and slowly become reality.
Parables (Score:2)
Can I propose a "Parable of the magically fixed window"?
Let's say I have a broken window. Perhaps I don't care about it, perhaps I absolutely need it fixed, perhaps I'' only have it fixed if it's cheaper than $x. It doesn't matter.
If I can magically download a new window from the Internet for free, and if I would have bought one otherwise, I am now free to spend my money on something else. The money goes elsewhere, the economy as a whole should be fine.
If I wouldn't have had it fixed, then there's no mon
Voodoo (Score:5, Funny)
Pirate: Arrr!! But 'tis naught to the voodoo that you do so well!! Ye scurvy dogs!
Who Wants to Copy this Stuff?? (Score:5, Interesting)
I have not been to a first run flick for over 1 year. I have been seeing only 70's and 80's classics such as Blade Runner and Xanadu and James Bond.
Hollywood's product has really be very dissapointing to say the least. Perhaps Congress shall pass laws that dictate minimum quality to this stuff.
Luv
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Hollywood economics (Score:2, Informative)
Why is "the Economy " the Government's #1 Concern? (Score:2)
Whatever happened to the government "For the people, by the people"?
Wait, let me answer that - it has been replaced by the government "For the Corporations, (paid for) by the Corporations".
Re:Why is "the Economy " the Government's #1 Conce (Score:2, Insightful)
Ripple Effect BS (Score:2, Informative)
Hollywood Lies! (Score:2, Interesting)
My hero and friend
I agree 100% (Score:2)
*AA (Score:2)
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It's not like people aren't spending the money (Score:2)
-Rick
liar, liar, pants on fire. (Score:2)
Because there is not a good way to price discriminate in the CD & DVD markets (charge less to those willing to pay less without charging less for everyone), it's quite possible that Hollywood and the RI
Velocity of Money (Score:2)
It's called, "Velocity of Money." It is econ 101 (literally - it was in my first econ class at a mediocre state school). Anyone w
Read the study? (Score:5, Insightful)
For a bunch of geeks, I'd think that doing a bit of research & gathering the facts before reaching a conclusion would be the *first* thing you'd do when trying to combat what you decry as a campaign of FUD & misinformation. Sarcasm isn't going to win the case in a courtroom, or in Congress. Deconstruct their argument & their methods. Show their assumptions & conclusions to be faulty.
Ridicule and snide comments (Score:2)
You must new here.
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The study mentions that restrictions of on the number of foreign made films (20 per year) in China drives piracy but then has
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Ah, you must be new to Slashdot - let me be the first to welcome you to our fair digital shores.
That being accomplished, you should realize the mythology of the geek is just a *bit* overstated. They have, in general, not the slightest interest in research and less in fac
OK, I can do that. Copyright needs real reform. (Score:2)
Show their assumptions & conclusions to be faulty.
I don't need to read their bullshit report to do that, the answer is right in the US constitution. Recall the copyright establishment clause of section eight [cornell.edu] with me:
Notice the term "limited"? DRM is forever and therefore unconstitutional.
More fundamentally, the reason for cop
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Pirating industry is part of the economy... (Score:2)
Yuk yuk yuk! (Score:2)
Well, they're right to be afraid about this, when you consider that lawmakers have a tough enough time conceptualizing the Internet. [wikipedia.org]
Seriously though, does anyone who's not in their pocket actually believe any of the statistics spewed by the RIAA or MPAA? If their math got any fuzzier their press releases about it would have to be shaved before the text could be made out.
~Philly
Being from a 3rd world country... (Score:3, Interesting)
The Hollywood leakers, plus the illegal dubbers in South America combined with the rouge servers provide an avenue for people with burners at home that can go and sell this pirated content in flea markets and feed their families. It happens with books, music and other stuff....
Is it illegal and bad? YES....
So is WAR... (and it seems to fuel economies too...)
Read: http://www.amazon.com/Political-Economy-Recent-Ec
Oh well...
how it's always worked (Score:4, Insightful)
Feh! Like's that's ever been an obstacle in the past...
MPAA: Mr. Lawmaker, Internet Piracy of our copyrighted works is bad. When everyday people decide that they can download movies illegally without fear of repercussion, we find that sales plummet, the industry suffers, and the culture as a whole is significantly damaged.
Lawmaker: Eh?
MPAA: We're hemorrhaging money thanks to Intarwebs!
Lawmaker. Oh.
MPAA: And you see, accounting has this weird thing where our profits are directly linked to the campaign contributions that we make to you.
Lawmaker: And what would you like your new law called?
SO! They admit it!!! (Score:4, Insightful)
If nothing proves they are imagining things more than this, I haven't seen it. Doesn't this statement indicate their losses are imaginary and that these new estimations are three times as imaginary?
I hate to say that it's time for another law but I think there should be "rules and ethics of evidence" introduced into law. Such a law would state that any studies submitted to the senate or congress must have, at the very least, an impartial study to balance out the claims of special interests. We all know how stats and studies can be twisted into outrageous lies and exaggerations. It's time we start disallowing such crap on a regular basis. If these special interests are willing to fund their own studies as evidence for a need for legislation, then they should also be willing to have another study made as ordered by the legislative commission that will be reviewing the information. It would seem like a natural extension of our other fair and balanced matters of law such as in the case of evidence presented in a court.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who's tired of the lies, damned lies and statistics given as evidence to write new laws. And while we're at it, let's stop the dairy companies from recommending our RDA of milk that seems to go up at every opportunity. Talk about conflicting interests.... and oil companies denying global warming? Enough already!
What a load of crap (Score:2)
What this goof is referring to is the multiplier effect, something elementary to economists. Thing is, you might spend your $20 and buy yourself some uber awesome coffee and dessert for you and a friend at Starbuck's instead. It's entertainment dollars spent differently.
And that money spent at Starbucks too has a multiplier effect - money goes to the pastry shops, the landlord, the employe
I'm OUTRAGED! (Score:2)
1) GE is directly out the amount of money the spent making and showing this report. GE is also out because of lost customers who tie NBC with the MPAA and
They'd had to let Conservatives rip hollywood off (Score:3, Insightful)
See, today the opressed became the opressor, and this time the opression is not for what is right or wrong, but for MONEY.
Just when are you going to die out, 55+ generation ?
Study is an example of the BROKEN WINDOW FALLACY (Score:3, Insightful)
This type of false logic is called the Broken Window Fallacy [wikipedia.org]. Read it.
Re:This Is Disgusting (Score:4, Insightful)
Is that so? From a recent press release [go.com]:
Just because the Slashdot crowd doesn't like something doesn't mean that average consumers have the same view. Get over yourself and UNDERTAND THIS, the RIAA and MPAA don't give a flying fuck about what you think. You are not their target customer.
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So, Tell me again what all this has to do with Piracy?
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