PS3's Lack of Rumble May Disappoint 201
Immersion Corporation, who you may recall from their rumble-controller suit against Sony, has released a study. Engadget reports that (somewhat unsurprisingly), it indicates gamers will miss the rumble feature in PS3. The 'SIXAXIS' gamepads planned for the PS3 will only have the 'tilt' feature, as far as is known so far. From the article: "Not only does the (completely unbiased) poll report that 72% of the 1,075 respondents agree vibration feedback enhances their game experience, it goes on to note that 59% of those surveyed would prefer rumble on the PS3 controller, while only 8% care about motion / tilt sensing (sorry, Nintendo). As if these numbers didn't paint a clear enough picture of the message Immersion is trying to convey, two further questions spell it out even more explicitly: when asked if the lack of rumble capabilities would affect their buying decisions ... 5% said that it would definitely cause them not to buy a PS3 and 32% claimed that they were less likely to pick one up for this reason and this reason alone. " GameDaily has a further, more detailed exploration of the study.
I agree (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I agree (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:I agree (Score:5, Funny)
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Sorry, couldn't resit.
Tilt detection sucks (Score:3, Interesting)
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Oh How True (Score:2)
Press releases are boring. We go through literally hundreds of them a day, and for the most part, they're self-serving documents full of half-truths and inflated claims about products and services.
Reasoning? (Score:3, Interesting)
Seriously, they've fscked up every single aspect of the publicity, popularity and launch of the PS3 through trying to make this system do everything. They even said as much. And then they leave out the rumble.
Fucksakes.
Re:Reasoning? (Score:5, Informative)
That's why. (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm suspending judgement until it comes out, but I'm telling everyone I know -- I don't care if you buy a Wii at launch, but wait a month or two after the PS3 comes out before you buy one. Then you'll know how much games will actually cost, you'll have a better idea all around if the console is worth it at any price, and
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If you can get your hands on a PS3 at launch, do so. But don't open it. Put it on eBay, and make a fortune off of those who DIDN'T get one at launch, but HAVE to have it.
Then you will have plenty of money to buy a Wii with games, a 360 with games, and, after a couple of months the PS3 (again) with games.
Why the vibration motor is gone. (Score:2)
Nintendo is able to retain vibration for the Wii because the Wii remote, which contains a vibration motor, relies upon an optical sensor bar and the nunchuck attachment, which contains an accelerometer, lacks a vibration motor.
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GRR.. Sony's pissing me off, again.
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Blah blah blah. Back in 2000, nerds on the Internet were saying the exact same shit about the PS2. I have seen no surveys, much less reputable ones, that indicate that the average video game buyer is pissy about the PS3. There's a reason Sony dropped the price in Japan but not the US. I honestly cannot grok why people think that they are making decisions about the PS3
Stop the Presses! (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally, I didn't find much value in the rumble packs in the PS2. I've always hated how they call it "Force Feedback" too, since it's no such thing. I usually leave them on, but it's not like having the controller vibrate in my hands has really enhanced the game experiance. I think the tilt sensors will be far more interesting, although most likely just used as an occasional novelty by game designers. I'm expecting fighting games where you can duck left and right by tilting the controller (which would be more natural than the shoulder buttons they use now) and lots of use in minigames.
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You put it in your hands?
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Re:Stop the Presses! (Score:4, Funny)
True, and I never saw how a vibrating controller could enhance immersion. Immersion is different reactions for different actions, with the rumble, if my character gets shot, my controller vibrates, if my car runs into a wall, my controller vibrates, if I summon an aeon, my controller vibrates, if something explodes nearby, my controller vibrates... heck, just make it "if something happens on screen, my controller vibrates", and put the controller to auto-vibrate all the time.
There are three types of lies... (Score:5, Interesting)
Considering that this survey was done by the same company that sued Sony over their rumble feature, I'm not at all surprised that the numbers for rumble are coming out high while the numbers for tilt sensors are coming out low.
That being said, I have heard a lot of disappointment being expressed over the PS3's lack of rumble. Most people don't seem to think the tilt sensors are a good replacement, and mostly think it's a gimmick ripped off from Nintendo. (Which would explain why the numbers are so low for the tilt sensor, while most people I've spoken with are very positive about the Wii-mote.) Yet I don't hear enough that I would consider the lack of rumble to be the feature that's going to kill the PS3. It seems to me the price tag, lack of games, and console shortages are all far more problematic.
If Immersion is trying to prove to Sony that they should have licensed the technology, well this (as in "suspect numbers") is the wrong way to go about it.
Re:There are three types of lies... (Score:5, Insightful)
I foolishly registered my slim-line PS2, so I now receive the Official US PlayStation Magazine. They ran a similar article this month.
They came to basically the same conclusion: most gamers would miss the rumble and that some would not buy the PS3 for that reason. This is the official magazine, endorsed by Sony. They're expecting gamers will miss the rumble and may not buy the PS3 because of it.
Yes, the Immersion study is probably biased, but I know that one of the many reasons I'm not getting the PS3 at launch is because they removed the rumble feature. I'm sure they'll add it back in, eventually, and I'd rather put off buying a PS3 until they do. (And HDTV comes down in price. And good games are released for it. And it costs less than $300. And...)
But, anyway, the results aren't as suspect as you'd think. The Official PlayStation Magazine agrees with them.
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Interesting. The question is, where are these 32% of people who aren't going to purchase a PS3 just because of the rumble? You'd think a few would be popping up here and saying, "Yeah, that's me. I'm not going to purchase a PS3 just because of the rumble. The other factors like price and availability have nothing to do with it."
It just seems... odd.
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Yeah, that's me. I'm not going to purchase a PS3 just because of the rumble. The other factors like price and availability have nothing to do with it.
Hmmm. You either copy and pasted that reply redundantly or you two should hook up pronto.
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For the record, I don't miss rumble at all in the Wavebird, and typically turn it off during long sessions with a corded controller because I *hate* it. So I may be bi
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How is it not a good sign for Sony? It wouldn't be the first time that the innovator in a product area happened to miss an opportunity to leverage that innovation where someone else did.
Or is Microsoft infallible in your view?
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"should be" =/= "is". Yes, its interesting that Microsoft isn't pursuing this as a core feature, OTOH, the Xbox 360 was the first of this round of consoles out, and therefore the least able to be influenced by
I don't really like a rumble feature (Score:5, Insightful)
So, I for one will not miss rumble. Not for how it could be used, but for how it was too often misused.
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If game designers worked for phone companies, cell phones
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Re:I don't really like a rumble feature (Score:5, Interesting)
1 Sony are lieing when they say that the rumble interfers with the gyroscopes (as they stated in E3 conference)- rumble has been removed purely because of the patent case with "these guys". 2 "These guys" are producing a case for why Sony should license the technology off them. 3 Despite the "I hate rumble" comments here - it is clearly unfair to say rumble is unwanted. It can truely add to games. But on current generation consoles the effect has never been truely "essential." Hence the sucess of the wavebird (which lacked rumble). 4Despite this Rumble is inherintly important for gyroscope control - Wario Ware Twisted for the GBA is probably the closest relative to what Sony are offering - being that you rotate a two handed controller. It uses rumble to create "tension" and "steps" in the virtual object you are rotating. This is so *very* important but so *very* hard to describe (for people like myself at least). It conveys the weight of the object brilliantly. For instance it really makes moving a heavy object (Planet Earth, Piano, Hammer) feel so different to controlling a light object (pin, pencil, leaf) - despite the fact you are moving the same controller in both cases. 5 Because of this, and this alone, it is great shame that the PS3 does not include rumble.
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I think its interesting that what you describe is not necessarily 'rumble' and should more accurately be portrayed as force-feedback, and Immersion (or whatever) certainly can't claim they invented that. Rumble is simply a shaking vibrating motion within the controller, higher speeds of the motor cause more vibration, or rumble. What you describe is actually force-feedback. Just like steering wheels are tighter to turn at high speeds, and softer to turn at lower speeds, also causing feedback when
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Rumble is used effectively so rarely that I would prefer if it defaulted to off. It's used to give feedback on things that it has no business giving feedback for (like getting shot or punched), the timing is so off on many games that it kills me, and it is used far too frequently (Oh I was hit... 3, 2, 1 (buzz) Oh wasn't that immersive, I got shot and it
rumble with wireless controllers (Score:3, Insightful)
Um (Score:4, Insightful)
I get 20-30 hours of use out of a charge of batteries on them.
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Which is true, but what's interesting is you didn't need rumble because the rumble pack was an optional piece of equipment that you plugged into the N64 controller's expansion port. So there were puzzles in Ocarina of Time that required rumble, but they were optional puzzles. I don't know about Majora's Mask since I didn't play much past the opening dungeon, but I would reason it too didn't require
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You're probably using the Wavebird from Nintendo which doesn't have rumble. Logitech wireless controllers are much better.
Oh, and BTW, Xbox 360s *come* with wireless controllers with rumble, and they last 20+ hours on a single battery charge. They work great.
I understand
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Mixed feelings (Score:2)
Some games definitly won't be the same without the Rumble feature. Project Zero for example. Most games don't really need it though. Mind you, most PS3 games don't need the tilt feature either. None of the games I played at TGS used it and some (Resistance) could have done with rumble.
It's not a big bother really. If the Rumble feature is needed to enhance the experience, then the game should just be made for the other 2 consoles.
all about immersion (Score:2)
on the other hand, with the GameCube I don't care much about the rumble. on SSB, for example, I have it turned off because it just doesn't add anything.
I expect rumble to be important for the Wii though since the
Some background please? (Score:3, Interesting)
Why is it that only Sony has stoped with the rumble packs?
Are N and MS paying for the right to use a motor in their controllers?
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Completely Agree (Score:4, Insightful)
Best example I can think of is Halo. Firing weapons produces vibrations, and when you're in the warthog's gunner seat and taking advantage of the unlimited ammo on the backseat cannon, it can throw off your aim a little bit as your hand starts to go numb...
But, I think I speak for everyone when I say that I will miss the rumble pack, if only because of that whole Rez vibrator thing
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Backward compatibility (Score:4, Insightful)
What that means is if you have an older game that you are used to playing with rumble, it will feel very different on your PS3 (without the rumble). In fact, since the system won't be designed for rumbling, I'm not sure if it can even developed by third parties (in the form of a new controller). It kind of takes away some of the allure of backward compatibility doesn't it?
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"Emulating" an event black hole isn't that hard.
You don't have a choice. (Score:2)
The article seems to be /.ed, but...
8% care about integrating motion/tilt sensing in a standard controller. The Wii requires you use its motion/tilt sensing technology in its controller. It's not a good idea to po
Tiger Woods (Score:2)
Players prefer tech they're familiar with? (Score:3, Insightful)
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I call bias (Score:2)
(completely unbiased) poll
Is there such a thing?
ispell for aspell (Score:2)
Did you mean: disappoint
Spell-checking these article submissions is a very easy task for the editors compared to evaluating their content - why isn't it done?
Heheh (Score:2)
This survey funded from Immersion, the company whose rather iffy patent in my opinion (dual-actuator rumble first appeared in the Hard Drivin' arcade machine as I recall, so if anything Atari invented it then these guys patented it? please!).
I won't miss rumble, mainly because I hold a joypad for long portions of my working day and rumbling pads annoy the shit out of me 99% of the time. Few games have ever used them imaginatively (yes, I inclu
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Kid a toy store. (Score:4, Insightful)
I would think a respectable company would take Sony aside in the courts and say "Look, if you put rumble in the PS3 and license with us, we'll back off this PS2 issue a bit." This just seems to me like a shady company trying to wring out Sony's pockets. They may be right, but in the interest of their public image, and in this case, the amount of licensing money they stand to lose by not being included in the PS3, they should be trying to compromise, not stealing Sony's wallet.
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Won't Miss It, But It Never Should've Been Removed (Score:2)
However, the only reason it was removed in the first place was, of course, so Sony could go "Hey look! We have motion sensing too!" Except that it's only along one axis really, and some people *cough*Nintendo*cough* have proven that it's possible to have both. So it's really sort of crappy. I think there are far more games already that
Vibration Features (Score:2)
what? (Score:2)
That's like asking 1000 people if they want wheels on a boat.
Oh, only 8% of you do? Sorry Nissan.
Stop associating the ps3 tilt sensing with Nintendo's product. Apples and oranges. Of course most people don't want some tilt/motion feature tacked on to a regular controller.
No Rumble? no alarm! (Score:2)
Rumble isn't crucial.. but useful. (Score:2)
After that mod I found out after 6 monthes when I tried a wireless controller, that I had screwed through the controller cord, and had no power running to the controller. However I did have analog control. The only thing I didn't have was rumble.
It took me 6 monthes, and I'm a heavy user of video games, I probably have close to 60 ps2 games and pick up one every month or so if there's somethign good.
Try telling me it's crucial, you can't because it re
Bad news for Wii then... (Score:2)
All kidding aside...
This type of stuff is nonsense, when the system is out and great games are out for it that will drive sales. A rumble joystick will not hurt or help a game like Resistance Fall of Man. The controller does have a small part in that it can't suck, but few do, except perhaps the new Nintendo one, and even if that proves to be a f
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Nintendo - best graphics? Nope, not even close.
Nintendo - best processor? Nope, not even close.
Nintendo - best sound? Nope.
Nintendo - best price after you buy 4 controllers? Possibly, but not by much.
Now...
Ninte
Many don't know about next-gen force feedback (Score:2, Interesting)
Let's get ready to ... (Score:2)
Wow these Immersion guys won't give up! (Score:3, Insightful)
While some claim it's a gimmick and or annoying, I feel that on a sublminal level it adds substantially to games with good feedback - infact it's one of those things you simply don't realise it was good until it's gone.
Anyone need only play Rallisport challenge 2 on the Xbox 1 to see it was very very well done in that game, combined with the good noises in the game it really did sound and feel like slipping around on either rocks, grass, dirt and so on - very very well done.
Also Halo made fairly good use of rumble too.
So for the record, I WANT rumble in the PS3 quite badly actually I'm really really sad to see it go.
That being said, these Immersion people are nothing sort of being a bunch of fucking assholes.
Not only do they have a patent on something which is INSIDE MOST WOMENS BEDSIDE DRAWERS and is as simple as a weighted motor,.... they have the nerve to enforce their bullshit patent on Sony.
To add insult to injury this is the SECOND time they've antagonised Sony / the media with bullshit comments like this.
They are essentially saying "nyah nyah nyah, we won!" trying to present themselves as innocents fighting for the gamers, when it's assholes like this who cause gamers problems in the first place.
They beat Sony and now are antagonising them with this "gee people will miss the rumble that SONY TOOK FROM YOU" that's what they are saying, in an effort to try to convince Sony to license their "technology"
This article is likely true in the fact that hey we will miss rumble, hey don't we all wish Sony would impliment it but the flaw is it comes from immersion, anyone else handling this study makes this a perfectly good article but being handled by Immersion? It's just antagonism and bullshit, fuck these assclowns, I really do wish they'd disapear.
Fingers crossed there IS rumble somehow on the PS3 because I certainly want it myself - we'll see what third party manufacturers will do.
The Wavebird as a case study (Score:2)
The thing is, it also lacked rumble, yet this didn't really stop people from buying and gushing over them. Personally, I like rumble, so no, I didn't buy one. This is where we get into the meat of this problem. In my case I felt that rumble out
I like rumble but there are alternatives (Score:2)
That said, I think you can party make up for what rumble gives you simply with auditory feedback - not quite as direct but it still gets the point across.
After reading previews for the game Lair I am more than happy to have tilt sensing in its place, though I still find it odd they did not simply also have rumble (I do not buy the official reason, and agree it's probably because they don't want to give immersion any more money - a case where p
Discounting Nintendo? (Score:2)
"Do you want to keep having what you've had for years and have become familiar with?"
"Yes."
The low showing for motion (and/or position) sensing controllers may have something to do with the fac that they're new an
Wavebird (Score:2)
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turned out to be pretty incorrect. Sure it didn't outsell the other consoles, but the Xbox sure became a part of the gaming community and titles like Halo sure garnered a lot of mindshare. Gamers are willing to cough up for good technology (and whatever gives the best Madden experience), and the more i think about it, the more i realize that PS3 won't be an exception. People will buy it.
as for the controller itself.
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The PS3 games in the US are at the same $60 price point that 360 games and Wii games. You're buying into the rumors that haven't been conf
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Or, more to the point... (Score:2)
Hey Slashdot Editors! I know hunting for dupes takes up all your time, but how about occasionally NOT posting trash marketing pseudo-surveys as news stories?
Jolyon
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Rob
That's the official explanation, but... (Score:2)
That was the official explanation, IIRC, but it seems pretty weak to me. Why would they remove a feature that has been used in all the consoles since the N64, to throw in a feature that seems so hastily dropped in, for no good reason, with no planned solid applications for it? With the Wii, the motion/position sensing is the center of the design for the whole system, it's the reason
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That's because the real reason is that some other company owns the patents to rumble, so they can't use it anymore. Microsoft paid that company a whole bunch of money, and Nintendo's rumble is different enough from the patent, but Sony's just stuck. So they pulled out some half-baked feature to attempt to make up
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Probably because they were sued by a company [wikipedia.org] that has a patent on rumble technology and lost.
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I agree with the previous poster. It is a pointless comparison. The Wiimote and PS3 Controller are about as same as a motorcycle and a bicycle. Sure, they are two wheeled modes of transport, but you wouldn't take any comparison between the features of the two seriously. Not that one is bette
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and the nunchuck by itself is a pointless useless gimmick.
You nearly nailed it, just complete the thought process.
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I don't think this is real and not fud as much as a really big warning sign to the gaming industry.
People are getting bored with the current games. Pretty pictures are not enough anymore. Nintendo seems to be trying to make games for fun, and reach new audiences. The Wii is getting a lot of notice because it offers something new. The PS/3 offers better graphics.
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