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Twilight Princess Mirrored on Wii 178

Posted by Zonk
from the ambidexterous-little-elf dept.
conigs writes "As some of you may or may not know, Link will appear right-handed in the Wii version of Twilight Princess (as opposed to the left-handed Link seen since Ocarina of Time). In order to accomplish this, Nintendo has mirrored the entire game. This includes maps, since they were apparently designed with a left-handed Link in mind." Kotaku says that this will even be true in the GameCube version of Princess, to avoid confusion.
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Twilight Princess Mirrored on Wii

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  • cf titanic (Score:4, Funny)

    by Yahweh Doesn't Exist (906833) on Thursday September 21, 2006 @05:25PM (#16157436)
    apparently they mirrored the film titanic. most* of the budget was spent CGIing the signs to look right.

    hopefully this ends the comparison of twilight princess and titanic.

    *dramatisation. may not be true.
  • What? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Mikachu (972457) <jjburkeNO@SPAMhunter.cuny.edu> on Thursday September 21, 2006 @05:29PM (#16157455) Homepage
    Where in the second link does it say that the Gamecube version is also going to be mirrored? I don't see any evidence of that.
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by mkaltner (555433)
      Furthermore, the WiiSourceOnline article explicitly states:

      "The interesting thing is, on the GameCube Link is still left-handed;"

        - Mike
  • Oh kaaaay... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Megane (129182) on Thursday September 21, 2006 @05:30PM (#16157457) Homepage

    Since some people really will want to play left-handed (I'm a lefty only when writing and eating, so not me), why not just make it a configurable option?

    But mirroring the whole freaking game? Someone couldn't have thought of just flipping the character model a year or two ago when they still had time to do it? Then people could even play the game a second time with their off hand.

    • by HTH NE1 (675604) on Thursday September 21, 2006 @05:44PM (#16157552)
      Since some people really will want to play left-handed (I'm a lefty only when writing and eating, so not me), why not just make it a configurable option?

      Indeed, or even automatically switchable during game play when it detects you moving your Wiimote from one hand to another for your own little "The Princess Bride" moment.
      • by AnyoneEB (574727)
        That would be difficult while holding a shield (represented by the nunchuk).
      • by kalirion (728907)
        For a second there I thought 'your own little "The Princess Bride" moment' was a euphamism for an action that you'd need your dominant hand for.... I really need to get out more.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      But mirroring the whole freaking game? Someone couldn't have thought of just flipping the character model a year or two ago when they still had time to do it? Then people could even play the game a second time with their off hand.

      Think animations. If they've got Link all lined up to interact with the world, they can't very well switch his hand and expect all the animations to line up properly. It's probably much easier just to reverse everything than to recreate all the animations.
    • The AI's probably hard coded to expect a lefty or righty Link, but not both. Stuff like attacking link's sword arm instead of his sheild arm. Changing all that code wouldn't be trivial. Plus, if they're always in mirror mode, they can probably take a bunch of programming shortcuts to achieve the effect.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by steveo777 (183629)
      I assume that the sword combat isn't so intense taht you would have to be a Wii-mote master of Beatrix Kiddo [imdb.com] proportions just to win the game. Therefore, I don't see why it would be difficult to wield the sword left-handed. That, and I think having a mirrored charecter model would be a lot more difficult than most people think. Animations would be easy, but what about hit-detection and the like?
    • Quotes copied shamelessly from imdb.com

      :s/Man in Black/Link/g

      Inigo Montoya: You are wonderful.
      Man in Black: Thank you; I've worked hard to become so.
      Inigo Montoya: I admit it, you are better than I am.
      Man in Black: Then why are you smiling?
      Inigo Montoya: Because I know something you don't know.
      Man in Black: And what is that?
      Inigo Montoya: I... am not left-handed.
      [Moves his sword to his right hand and gains an advantage]
      Man in Black: You are amazing.
      Inigo Montoya: I ought to be, after 20 years.
      M
  • by LoverOfJoy (820058) on Thursday September 21, 2006 @05:30PM (#16157464) Homepage
    yeliaB nitsuJ
    ------ ------

    Oh wait...wrong game.
    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by EEBaum (520514)
      30 million obscure NES reference bonus points for you!
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by miyako (632510)
      In case anyone doesn't catch the reference, it's a mirrored version of a code from metroid on NES
      Justin Bailey ------ ------ which allows you to start on Norfair with everything except the ice beam and without samus's power suit.
      • by Myria (562655) on Friday September 22, 2006 @01:48AM (#16159266)
        "JUSTIN BAILEY -------- --------" just happens to be a valid password by the game's password checksum algorithm. The state of the game you get just happens to be what matches the setting of those bitflags. I would guess that a player named Justin Bailey tried this and found it worked well - and no other password at the time was known to allow a suitless Samus. In modern times, a password is known that gives you a suitless Samus at the starting point with no power-ups.

        There is only one special-cased Metroid password: "NARPAS SWORD0 000000 000000", probably meaning "Narihiro's password". It gives you infinite life and ammo, and was not discovered until the assembly code behind the password system was analyzed.

        Melissa
  • RTFA Zonk (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Karma Farmer (595141) on Thursday September 21, 2006 @05:33PM (#16157482)
    Zonk says:
    Kotaku says that this will even be true in the GameCube version of Princess, to avoid confusion.

    The article says:
    in the Wii version of the game, Link would be right-handed, although he's traditionally an elfin south paw... a character trait retained on the GameCube version of the game.

    I say:
    Zonk, learn to read and stop smoking the crack.
  • by Psykechan (255694) on Thursday September 21, 2006 @05:36PM (#16157500)
    Twilight Princess to have a right handed Link? That's so sinister.

    I still don't understand why the game would be mirrored. Also, what happens if you have a lefty playing the game? I know from the fishing videos [google.com] that it's backwards; I'm going to want to hold the fishing rod with my left hand and reel with the nunchuck in my right hand. I hope that this is allowed.
    • by spectral (158121)
      nice pun, thanks :)
    • it's just that when you swing the sword/cast the rod Link'll do it with his right hand. It'll be a tad disorienting, but there are more right handed people then left, so you're kinda stuck...
      • I am right handed. I personally think that it shouldn't matter much about the character being left or right handed as much as the game being playable for left or right handed people. If the player is right handed, then the on screen avatar should be. If the player is left handed then a left handed avatar.

        True, Link is an established left handed character but having the avatar match the player makes more sense. It's much better than making Link right handed and also forcing all the southpaws to "just dea
  • Canon is Link is lefthanded, but I'm right handed, which side should I root for? I mean on the one hand it might be harder to control if it's left handed in theory, but couldn't they find a compromise. On the other hand I'm an egocentric bastard and I want my games to be right handed. Oh decisions decisions.

    I'm amazed at the major changes they have to make to make the game work (the entire world gets flipped) but the biggest problems comes up simply "what about those who are left handed."

    In the end this
    • by Chris Burke (6130) on Thursday September 21, 2006 @05:49PM (#16157591) Homepage
      I'm amazed at the major changes they have to make to make the game work (the entire world gets flipped) but the biggest problems comes up simply "what about those who are left handed."

      Actually that isn't much work, or at least doesn't have to be. Just add in a y-axis flip into your view transformation matrix and viola, the world is now a mirror-image. All that'd be left then is to make sure the rendering of mini- or full-screen maps are correct.

      As far as "what about those who are left handed", I don't know. It seems odd to me that they would consider the handed-ness of people using the Wii to control the sword, but not make it an option. The blurb (RTFA? What's that mean?) suggests that the actual design of the gameplay depends on handed-ness, which is why to make Link right-handed they had to flip everything else as well. That doesn't make much sense to me.
      • by Megane (129182)

        The blurb (RTFA? What's that mean?) suggests that the actual design of the gameplay depends on handed-ness, which is why to make Link right-handed they had to flip everything else as well. That doesn't make much sense to me.

        I think they simply made the decision late enough in the schedule that they didn't have the time to run it back through playtesting.

      • by corsec67 (627446)
        Aside from text, but the boundary boxes for text would flip, then you just need to put the text into those boxes.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by acramon1 (226153)
      Ah, well in "Link to the Past" (SNES), Link does sometimes use his sword with his right hand (when facing east). So I guess canon is that he's ambidexterous? So for a truly correct interpretation, you'd need players to be switching with their compass bearings....

      Of course, I haven't played in a long time, so maybe I'm remembering incorrectly. Anyone better versed in the topic have anything to comment?
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by geminidomino (614729) *
        A few comments have been made on Link's handedness over the years.

        In WW, he was described as "ambidextrous, favoring his left hand" but going back to LTTP, he swapped hands when facing east vs. west because of sprite mirroring. The Player's guide had a flavor text to explain that it was because of an old Hylian superstition that he would always swing his shield towards Death Mountain.
        • by kinglink (195330)
          Well first off it, depends on the Link. There's no less than 3 Links in the entire history of Hyrule (yes this is true), and some place the number at 4.

          But as you say the real reason for this is sprite mirroring, lazy bastards :) Of course the superstition was in the player's guide and nintendo power and a couple other places.

          In WW There is a completely new link according to most histories, and yes he's ambidextrous. However he's not the same link in Ocerina of Time (which took place 100 years before W
  • by DarthParadox (983868) on Thursday September 21, 2006 @05:46PM (#16157564)
    This is masking a more serious design problem. A game designed for use with the Wiimote should have a setting that allows the game to be played either left- or right-handed, so as to not exclude anyone. Presumably the player's actions match up to the avatar's (in this case, Link's). Therefore, it should be possible to make Link either left- or right-handed, within the game.

    The fact that this isn't possible is troubling for the prospect of lefties being able to play this game the same way righties can.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by XenoRyet (824514)
      I imagine many, if not most, games in which it matters will be good for both righties and lefties. However, apparently Link's handedness is a factor in the level design, so it's not as easy as just including a setting within the game.

      Given that fact, and the fact that the downside is realitivly minor (I can't imagine it being too disconcerting for a left-handing motion to produce a right-handied onscreen action), it makes sense to make Link match up with the majority of the population. If the downside w

      • by webrunner (108849)
        Imagine a bunch of sword targets in a room that have to be hit sequentialy quickly while running in a specific direction. They'd be set up on whatever side the attack animations would be timed for, and i imagine the left and right horizontal swipes aren't exactly the same.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by RyoShin (610051)
      Considering that you'd likely have to individually map armor, animations, and such for both left- and right-handed orientation, this is no trivial task. I believe it's feasible, but increases the workload a bit.

      However, since we've had to wait over a year more for this game because of the Wii version, I would have hoped they would work in both left hand and right hand.

      We will see more options for left/right handedness in the second generation of Wii games, after developers have had time to really try it out
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      You are forgeting an important part of the Wii-mote: the Nunchuku attachment. Many of the games are designed with this as a necessary part to play the game, and the Nunchuck is shaped in the way that you must hold it with your left hand. Since Zelda utilizes the nunchuck, the user is forced to use the "sword" in their right hand.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Baricom (763970)
        ...the Nunchuck is shaped in the way that you must hold it with your left hand.
        Would you mind explaining why? The nunchuck appears to be symmetrical in every picture I've seen of it.
    • This is masking a more serious design problem. A game designed for use with the Wiimote should have a setting that allows the game to be played either left- or right-handed, so as to not exclude anyone.

      You have to remember, I think, that although they've put in a lot of work to retrofit the game for use on the Wiimote, it was originally designed for use with a Gamecube controller. Only so much you can do without starting from scratch.
  • by Bakasama (554260) on Thursday September 21, 2006 @06:28PM (#16157818) Homepage
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-handed [wikipedia.org]

    You might be surprised to realize that almost everything is designed with the right hand bias. Most right handed people either don't realize that their design is nigh unwieldable for lefties, or don't want to spend the time and money redesigning for potential use in the left hand.

    Nearly every gaming mouse and keyboard rig on the market assumes that you will have the mouse in your right hand, and the left will run the keyboard. This didn't become an irresolvable problem until the rise of ergonomics. Now, mice and keyboards are form molded to fit into the hand that they were designed for.

    Try holding that nice Logitech bluetooth mouse in your left hand. You'll find that it's uncomfortable just sitting there. Never mind moving it around on your desk.

    But that just the small stuff. Dangerous tools that could maim or even kill if mishandled are only available in right handed form. I've never seen a ambidextrous circular saw.

    Ever try to find a left handed firearm?

    Easily 90% of the auto loading sidearm designs have all of the controls positioned to be accessed by the thumb of the right hand. Almost every hunting rifle made by man has the bolt actuator on the right side. Revolvers are almost impossible to reload left handed.

    So it is frustrating when Nintendo designs a controller that is so obviously ambidextrous, and the software developers ignore it and build everything right handed anyway.



    • I'm left handed and learned to use the mouse with my right hand early on. I'd say it has saved me from a lot of headaches. I am able to use these nice Logitech mice with my right hand and don't have to worry about continually annoying everyone by moving the mouse to the left side and wanting to switch the two buttons (it actually annoys me when other left handed people do it).

      I suppose I may just be more ambidextrous than others, but if you're able to make the switch, it's worth it. Then again, I'm not sure
      • by zeath (624023)
        I am able to use these nice Logitech mice with my right hand and don't have to worry about continually annoying everyone by moving the mouse to the left side and wanting to switch the two buttons (it actually annoys me when other left handed people do it).

        That's strange, I learned to use my mouse on the right side but I retained the ability to use it left handed with the default button mapping (left clicking with my middle finger, right clicking with my index) just as fluently. I used to use that in com
        • Why do you left click with your middle finger in the reversed setting? Do you use your middle finger for right clicking in the standard position? So what do you use for middle clicking?

          Do yourself a favor and try using your ring finger for right clicking and middle finger for middle clicking, it's MUCH more natural on the fingers and gives you more control.
    • by dbIII (701233)
      Ever try to find a left handed firearm?

      At one point the Australian army was considering a combat rifle that would eject spent cartridges into the face of anyone using it left handed.

    • Speaking of consoles, since nintendo introduced the pad, almost all controls are left handed favors. I would love to have the choice to have the directional pad vice versa optionally... nintendo alwayx had this left hand obsession, at least in newer stylus based games, they added a right handed control scheme, otherwise games like mario 64 would be unplayable. Yes left handed people have disadvantages, but you at least can get mouses etc... suitable, while I am still waiting for a console controller for rig
    • i end up doing everything with my right hand so i am pretty clumsy and lacking in dexterity for most things i do. i HAVE to write with left hand,and i use scissors and knives with my left hand, which means i can never cut anything straight. scissors are really uncomfortable to use, and no one realises that most knives are sharp only on one side of the blade and are set up to compensation for the natural curved movement of the wrist when cutting. this means in the left hand they exacerbate the curve and all
    • With due respect to the lefty plight...

      The obvious response to such injustice is to start a Leftorium [wikipedia.org]. =)

      Seriously though, frustrating though it may be, the reason that left-handers are left out in the cold is the same reason that that Nintendo had to mirror the whole game, rather than just the character models: practicality, and marketing. The reason given in the article is essentially that there was no time to playtest the game with selectable handedness. It's very possible that certain places in the g
  • by Kalak (260968) on Thursday September 21, 2006 @07:14PM (#16158058) Homepage Journal
    Assuming Link is the only major character who is left handed, then all the NPCs are right handed. "Fixing" the game by merely mirror imaging makes *all* the characters switch. Now all of the NPCs are left handed. Most sword fighting, etc. is right on right handed (look at spiral stair case design in mideval castles), and an advantage is usually to the lefty who is used to fighting against a right handed opponent, while the right handed opponent rarely fights a left handed opponent.

    This actually changes *a lot* and is disapointing as a fix. It does not balance the world, or make it correct. Making Link right handed fighting right handed opponents would be a more accurate fix, though it defeats the purpose of having Link being left handed in the first place.

    Not having an option to play a left handed Link also disapoints me because I am a lefty. I would like the option to use the sword in whatever hand I choose to. This is one game I was excited about, but am now indifferent to. This is a deal breaker for the Wiimote to lefties. Left handed batting? Left handed catching? If these are not possible, I'm not buying.

    I'm sure, given time, this will be adressed in other games if they don't want to cut out 10% of the population
    • by 7Prime (871679)

      Had it been Majora's Mask, there would have been a rock band composed entirely of fish-people playing left-handed guitars! Wind-waker would have a folk band of leaf people playing left-handed cellos and pipes. Sweet Jesus!

      No, but seriously, what's the point of mirroring the NPCs too?

      • by Kalak (260968)
        from TFA: "The most obvious choice would be to flip Link's character model, but with the rest of the game designed around Link attacking from a southpaw stance that would be sure to change the way at least some of the fights worked. No, the quickest and easiest solution was to simply mirror the entire game!"

        I suppose it's to have the sword on the same side as the attackers' (how it is with a lefty fighting a right handed swordsman). So they are *planning* to have a world where most (if not all) of the peopl
    • I was extremely excited about the Wii, but like you, have now tempered my excitement with the fact that these games may be extremely awkward for me to play if they do not allow me to play as a left-hander.

      I'm honestly shocked that for a system that depends so much on hand movement that this isn't coming to the surface until now. I know plenty of games will be handedness-neutral, but to pigeon-hole players into a certain hand configuration when it is their actual friggin hands controlling the game is ridicu

  • by 7Prime (871679) on Thursday September 21, 2006 @07:51PM (#16158208) Homepage Journal

    ...unless you've never played with a console controller before, it will feel more natural to use the Wiimote in the right hand, since it has the main buttons, which have ALWAYS been featured on the right side of paddle controllers. The nunchuk, held in the left, will have the control stick, just like in traditional controllers.

    If you think about it, controllers have always been strangely left-handed. It's our left thumbs that do the precision controlling that is usually associated with the dominant hand, while the right hand does the button mashing more commonly associated with the subordinant hand. Joysticks and keyboards feature directional control with the right hand. Seeing that Nintendo both designed the first paddle controller and featured a left-handed Link, one wonders whether the lead design team was made up of mostly lefties at the time... not that it really made much of a difference in the long run.

    • by shinma (106792)
      You know that Charlie Chaplin wasn't Jewish, right?

      When asked if he was a Jew by a Nazi officer (at a party in Hollywood), Chaplin replied: "No, I do not have that honor."
    • by scribblej (195445)
      Controllers haven't *always* been "strangely left-handed." Old arcade machines, my Atari 2600, the old TRS-80 sticks, and countless sticks for my Commodore-64 all were stick-for-the-right-hand and buttons-for-the-left.

      Making the switch with my NES was awkward, as I recall, but not too much so.

      • Which is the opposite of a Nintendo (and later) controller(s).

        On an NES, your "joystick" (dpad) is on the left, not right. And the buttons are on the right, not left. With a traditional C64/Atari/etc. joystick, your right hand steers and your left hand button mashes.

        I think you missed the comparison somehow.
    • Actually it was not always like that the early joysticks from the early consoles and arcades were mostly right handed, and for most people this made sense, since precision work is mainly right handed. Nintendo with its pad mostly from the game and watch series shifted this to the left, and I always hated it. They even tried today, some DS games have default control schemes which were clearly designed for having the stylus in the left hand. But fortunately they nowadays add alternative schemes so that you ca
      • What DS games are left-handed? I've always used my right hand for the stylus and I've never played a game where that was a problem.
        • First... the control cross is left handed, which is basically, well now i am used to it, but it is definitely in favor of left hands. Secondly the default control scheme of Mario64 and other stylus controlled action games on the DS is definitely in favor of left hands because you have to use the stylus left to control the character while you have to use your right hand for holding the console and the buttons. But Nintendo has become wiser, they added usually a well working right hand configuration as secon
          • You know, I never realized you could control Mario 64 with the stylus instead of the d-pad until now. I knew you creep with the stylus, but the awkwardness of taking my hands off the controls, finding the stylus and then having to drop the stylus to jump or whatever (because I never thought to grab it with my left hand) was too much, so I stopped using it (the stylus, not the game). Now that I know you can play the whole game with the stylus, well, that's facinating. I might have to replay through it. :)
    • Seeing that Nintendo both designed the first paddle controller and featured a left-handed Link, one wonders whether the lead design team was made up of mostly lefties at the time... not that it really made much of a difference in the long run.
      Miyamoto's left-handed. I assume he's the reason for lefty Link and lefty controllers.
      • by tenton (181778)
        Miyamoto's left-handed. I assume he's the reason for lefty Link and lefty controllers.

        That doesn't explain why most arcade games have joystick on the left and the button pressing on the right. Go ahead, take a look...if the machine doesn't have buttons on both sides of the joystick, you'll notice that you move with the left, and shoot with the right. Hell, with Robotron, you have 2 joysticks, yet you move with the left and shoot with the right.
        • I think they're taking off the NES controller. I don't know if arcades before '85 had them, because I was born in '81 and didn't go to arcades when I was 3, but that's my theory.
    • It's our left thumbs that do the precision controlling that is usually associated with the dominant hand, while the right hand does the button mashing more commonly associated with the subordinant hand.

      While this is true in most games, in FPS the right control stick is almost always used for aiming, which I would argue is more important than the left joystick which is used for moving. However, in most every other game (especially sports games) the left stick is the most important.

      It should also be note

    • by steveo777 (183629)
      I'd say that's changing too. Now we use the right thumbstick (aside from Nintendo) for aiming in most FPS's and the left is simply for movement, which requires less precision. But I always preffered right stick movement and left for aim (like in the old Bond and Turok games).

      And as a disclaimer, I am right-handed. But I do play hocky and eat left handed. Meh...

  • I'm tired of all this nonsense where lefties get the shaft. When will game developers (and the rest of the world) learn to make things that work for both lefties and righties? Take guitar hero for example. While they did add the option to flip the way the notes are displayed on the screen, actually using the guitar upside-down sucks; the whammy bar has to be PULLED on, and the strap gets in the way, making it just that much less fun and giving me less of a reason to want to buy it. Even games with tradi
    • by Kalak (260968)
      Do you have a source for my impending doom? Inquiring minds want to know.... (And then I can blame the right handed fascist regime.)
  • by Mark Programmer (228585) on Thursday September 21, 2006 @10:55PM (#16158848) Homepage

    From the summary:

    "As some of you may or may not know, Link will appear right-handed in the Wii version of Twilight Princess (as opposed to the left-handed Link seen since Ocarina of Time)."

    From the source material:

    "Link nodded silently in approval, and left the room after taking a long glance at the altar. Then with a magical sword in his left hand and a magical shield in his right, he set off alone on his long travels."
              Instruction manual, Zelda II: The Adventure of Link

    ... that's the first mention in the written text. If you look at the sprite in the first game, it's painfully obvious that link is left-handed.

    The more you know!

    • Even earlier. Pull up your NES or NES emulator and fire up Zelda1. Face down or up and attack, it's obvious that Link is left handed.
  • I thought the whole point of the Wii technology was to develop a strongly symbolic connection between the player and their avatar via controls. I suppose I might be expecting too much sophistication from a relatively new technology.

    I had really expected that when you hold the sword (remote) in your right hand, Link would be right-handed. Switching the controllers (as a left-handed person might do) would cause Link to become left-handed. In fact, I had taken it for granted that the twin controllers woul

  • Kotaku says that this will even be true in the GameCube version of Princess, to avoid confusion.

    From IGN [ign.com],

    When asked why Link was left-handed in the Wii version of Twilight Princess, Miyamoto had this to say:

    "Although Link is [traditionally] left-handed, at E3 we noticed people seemed to be using the right Wii controller to swing his sword. That's why we decided to make Link right-handed. The interesting this is, on the GameCube Link is still left-handed; because of the mirror mode the game map is reversed.

  • by 7Prime (871679) on Friday September 22, 2006 @12:20AM (#16159074) Homepage Journal
    If it's true (unlike the blurb says) that the GameCube version will be un-mirrored, then this will make for an insane replay of the game if done a second time on the other system. Spacially, it will mean re-charting everything in reverse, which the human brain isn't really all that good at doing. You will be much more likely to not immediately remember the solution to each puzzle just by reconizing the room, since a reversed layout will many times look just "different". If this is true, I'm going to wait a few months, and then go back and play the other version... this could make for a REALLY interesting case study in spacial memory.
  • In other news, Kameo's Co-Op pack on Xbox 360 reverses some of the levels. Amazing! The mind boggles!

    Headline: "Minor change made in video game under development!"

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