University of Virginia Student Graduates in One Year

An anonymous reader writes "18-year-old David Banh of Annandale, VA recently graduated from the University of Virginia with a double major in Physics and Mathematics, and an education paid for almost entirely by scholarships. What's truly amazing is that he did it in one year, bringing in 72 Advanced Placement credits, then taking 23 credits his fall semester, 37 credits his spring semester and 3 credits in the summer. His brief undergraduate career didn't leave him much time to explore college, so he's now working on his master's degree. He says he may eventually pursue law school as a part-time student in hopes of becoming a patent lawyer."

Congratulations, Mr. Banh...

[avalys]

...you have completely missed the point.

3 Credit Summer?

[LoverOfJoy]

What a slacker! But before I get modded troll, let me just say that I think more students could be graduating a lot sooner if useful classes were offered during the summer. A lot of summer semesters get wasted when out of state kids can't afford to go home for the summer and don't have any classes worth taking either.

Seems to have missed the point.

[rossifer]

Part of the point of an undergraduate education is to be exposed to new ideas and concepts while you're establishing yourself in an environment separate from your parents and the babysitting culture of most secondary schools.

Somehow, I don't think he got very much exposure to new ideas and concepts. He sounds like someone who's decided that whatever makes the most money is the best thing to do with your life.

Regards,
Ross

What a shame

[Moby Cock]

It seems to me that this guys has missed the point of university. Yes, his feat is just short of miraculous and he is clearly a smart guys, but it sounds like he was there merely for the credential. Simply to get the degree. University is supposed to give someone a chance to explore the universes, or the parts that seem interesting. To experiment and experience things. Not to simply vacuum up credits. In a way, I am sorry for him.

missing crack

[MrSquirrel]

So that's where neighbor's missing supply of crack went!
Sounds a bit odd to me -- where I go to school, many of the course plans are layered, so you have to take a lot of pre-requisites... I don't know if he got them waived via AP credit or what, but even in my last two semesters (I graduate in May, hurrah) I'm still knee-deep in 400 level classes that I have to take before I can take other 400 level classes.

Also, I think he missed the college experience. College doesn't teach you as much book-wise as it does real-life-wise: living on your own, those 3 a.m. conversations about philisophy with your friends, boobies... I'm taking 18 credit hours and working only 24 hours a week and I still have trouble finding time for fun... this kid is either a robot or has no social life (I don't "party" or drink, so I'm already "unsocial" to some people).

Re:Moo

[Anonymous Coward]

I've always heard policies of no more than 30-32 AP credits (roughly 1/4 of the degree requirements, and they don't scale it up if you do happen to do a double major). Having half of your credits come from freshman level courses doesn't seem the most appropriate method to getting an eduation.

What he missed

[Southpaw018]

Okay. 37 credits your spring semester. That's pretty much 9 AM to 5 PM in class, five days a week. Add in study time and prep time plus time to do assignemnts, and (judging by what I did carrying 15 credits at Penn State) he was working an additional 6+ hours a night, seven nights a week, for his classes. That's it. That was his life for a year.

See, to me, college was about learning first and foremost, about obtaining a well-rounded academic education. The key here is "well-rounded." If you're literally spending 13-14 hours a day on class, what else are you doing? Nothing. That's not well-rounded. This kid missed out on everything that makes college, college. Friends, relaxing...hell, dorm floor-wide LAN matches in CS and UT99 (as in my case). Oh, and football. Sweet, sweet football. On the other hand, I can guarantee you that he did nothing but eat, sleep, work, and study.

I'll take a party here and there and some video games, please. I would not do what this kid did, nor would I consider it, or consider letting my children (someday) do it. It's just flat out not worth it.

Re:What a shame

[TrekCycling]

Same here. It's okay, though. When he's pulling 80 hour weeks trying to make partner by 23 and decides to finally take a drink of alcohol I think he's going to go psychotic. Maybe somewhere in there he'll figure out how to relax a little.

Another soul lost

[brejc8]

I have spent some time demonstrating to undergrads engineering courses and several times I have seen some amazing students who take to the subject really well. They don't do perticulaly well in the other courses but they seem to enjoy this the course and they go beyond what is expected of them. Then at the end I ask them if they are going to do the engineering modules next year because they will be practically guaranteed top marks in those too and they say no because they want to: Write web pages for a living, Become lawers because they heard that pays well, Knows someone who works with Java and so will take only very soft modules (despite the fact that they failed the java module).
This guy has some real potential, he could change the world, he could discover some fantastic advancements for the good of human kind, but no. He wants to be a lawyer.

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135?

[aleksiel]

christ, i graduated with a single major (computer engineering) and i had to take 140 credits. all he had to take was 135 for two.

where's my second degree? :(

Re:The punchline

[2starr]

I would think that's a good thing. We want good people who can genuinely understand the patents in the system.

Re:Congratulations, Mr. Banh...

[bladesjester]

College is also about social interaction and trying new things.

Don't get me wrong - classes are important, but making new connections and the experiences you have are as important or, in some cases, even more so. A life where you do nothing but work is no life.

The light that burns twice as bright...

[dave562]

...burns half as long? I worry about people who are so task oriented. I bet the guy gets anxious when he isn't working towards a deadline and has some free time.

What happened before college?

[LotsOfPhil]

If the coursework was that unchallenging to him, how did it take him until he was 18 to get through high school?

No Good Reason to do this

[dlevitan]

After reading the article, I felt like I had a similar sort of high school experience as him (though not as crazy as him). I came to college with 48 AP credits, plus 8 from college courses. Technically speaking, I could've graduated in a year or two. But there's no point.

First, the physics/mathematics combination is not hard to do. At least where I went to school a physics major only needed a few more classes to get a math degree (because so much was required for physics). Second, I don't think one can truly appreciate physics by doing it all in one year. I doubt he took very many advanced courses. I learned a lot in intro physics (I had AP credit, but declined it to take an honors intro course) that I never learned in high school. And it always takes me a while to truly appreciate a subject. Not just one year. Plus I doubt he got much research experience in.

I'm sure he's a smart person and talented, but there are plenty of people like that out there. If he had tried doing that at a place like Caltech or MIT, I doubt it would've worked. Plus I actually enjoyed taking distribution classes because they gave me an interesting perspective I hadn't known before. In fact, I wish I had taken more of them.

Regardless, if you're thinking of doing this, don't. If you're that smart, go to a better school, spend the money, and be really challenged like this guy never was.

Re:What a shame

[Tod DeBie]

...but it sounds like he was there merely for the credential. Simply to get the degree.

This seems like an entirely reasonable approach. Get the degree and get on with your life. What is wrong with that? The "college experience" is mostly overrated anyway, so why even bother with it?

You're all wrong.

[Fysiks Wurks]

This guy hasn't missed the point of going to college. He got it right. He's taking advantage of the TIME VALUE OF MONEY. Facing the extreme price increases in tuition why not take as many transferable AP classes as you can. Then if you get someone else to pay for your collage that's even better. And instead of wasting 4 years of valuable time (where you could be making money instead of forking it over the university, landlords, beer vendors, or pot dealers you can get on with life and start doing what you want. The more you earn/invest today, the better off you will be tomorrow. The less debt you have today, the more you will have tomorrow.

Universities have become a money making shell game...they require you to take a load of irrelevant course work (to broaden your horizons) at over $300/credit then they offer limited sections of these classes which delays your graduation a semester or two. Yeah, the university has your educational interests at heart.

Re:Congratulations, Mr. Banh...

[Fhqwhgadss]

College is also about social interaction and trying new things.
College should be about learning, not socializing, binge drinking, wanton promiscuity, or what have you. Somewhere along the way, it became accepted that every single person had to graduate from college to be successful and it became an extension of high school. Then all the immature and ignorant kids left their uptight parents' house, and lacking anything better to do (15 hours of class is a full load?) turned it into Animal House.

That along the idea of bullshit "core courses" being required for me to get a "well rounded" education is precisely why I don't have a college degree. I'm getting along fine without it and refuse to put up with 4 years of High School Part 2 just to get to graduate school. Books don't get any less informative just because they're not being regurgitated onto a chalkboard for you.

Re:Congratulations, Mr. Banh...

[brunes69]

I think what the parent meant is a large part of University is not just preparing for your job, but preparing through your life. A lot of the stuff you go through in Univeristy (partying,hangovers with an exam the next day, relationships succeeding, failing, and fucking your life over, prioritizing relationships vs. fun vs. school), prepare you for various aspects of your life as an adult.

This guy skipped all that, obsessed with the scholoarly aspect 24/7. He will probably do the same with his job, become quite wealthy, but ultimately very depressed. I wouldn't be surprised to see this guy on a suicide watch by the time he is 25 if he is not careful.

Re:Congratulations, Mr. Banh...

[Catbeller]

I powered through school in order to become a programmer, back in the day. 12 months a year, 23 credits a semester, one, two jobs at the same time. I thought I was in a hurry.

In my old age, I know realize that the facts I learned weren't the education. I missed an education. I never had time to make friends or go to a party or watch TV.

The education is being with people as smart as you, as young as you. It's watching Battlestar Galactica together and learning about how other people think about moral questions... it's about making friends with your professors and the TA's. College is where you start making the friends that will connect you with the world as you leave school, giving you access to jobs and communities and a life.

If I had a summary, it would be: goof off in college. Spend an extra year there. Talk to everyone. Take a difficult course twice. Don't be afraid to change concentrations. Go to parties. Get drunk. Meet the opposite sex, even the same sex if that floats your boat. Maybe even at the same time. Live. Learn everything. Cheat authority at every turn, 'cause that disrespect and ability to bypass idiot rules will give you real success at life -- conformity makes you a loser, no matter what toys they give you. There is no other time or place in your whole life that will let you be yourself again, so grab it while you can.

This kid has educated himself into mediocrity.

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Stupid

[DancesWithBlowTorch]

Let's assume for a moment that this guy is actually brilliant, not just cramming stuff (which should be hard in a Maths course, but I don't know how the courses at this university are organised). Then the fact that he wants to be an attorney shows what a horribly shallow personality he must have.

I mean, a true genius would be eager to use his cognitive abilities for the advancement of mankind. Start an academic career, change the way we think about the world. Live in fancy old College rooms, sip on a glass of Port, write thoughtful books.

No, he doesn't want to do that. He wants to earn a lot of money. How sad.

Re:Congratulations, Mr. Banh...

[Crazy Man on Fire]

College should be about learning, not socializing, binge drinking, wanton promiscuity, or what have you.

I agree, college should be about learning. However, there's much more to learn that what's in the books you read or the notes you copy down for the chalk board. As you said, you don't need a prof up in front of the room to learn from a book. That said, there aren't many times, other than college, in your life where you are as free to experiment, try new things, and "open your wings". Learning about yourself and growing as a person (being social is a HUGE part of this) are the most important parts of college. Being successful (and happy) in life isn't always about what or how much you know. It is very often about how you present yourself (social skills) and who you know. College is a critical networking and personal growth opportunity.

Re:What he missed

[Quaoar]

I'm pissed that there's so much animosity towards people who choose to spend most of their studying. I admit, I know some self-hating schoolaholics (those who study all day just because they can't think of anything better to do). However, a lot of the people who "waste their lives" studying most of the day end up being people who submit dozens of patents every year, publish influential papers, and greatly expand the sphere of human knowledge and understanding.

I don't think it's fair to say "it's not worth it," because to a lot of people, contributing something meaningful to society is far more important than self-gratification. Just because 95% of the people going to college think it is for their personal benefit does not mean the remaining 5% should share the same view.

And hey, for the most part, I'm in your boat. I waste a lot of time playing video games, watching TV, and hanging out with friends. But I greatly admire those who choose to sacrifice all of that to come up with all of the innovations that allow us to live such a life of leisure. Those people deserve our respect, not our pity.

Re:Moo

[GoodOmens]

Yea but half the fun of college was going to college. Even if I was capabale of graduating in 1 year I wouldn't have. College was to much fun .... as many put it ... enjoy your young years while you can. You have the rest of your life to be a grown-up ....

Re:Congratulations, Mr. Banh...

[bladesjester]

Funny how that works, isn't it? I occasionally hear people quoting Corinthians 13:11 when they deal with people they think need to "grow up" (it's one of the hazards of living in the bible belt)

"When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."

I always want to add something to the end - "When I became wise, I leanred the value of childish things and turned to them once more"

Re:Missed opportunities.

[Jason Earl]

Oh please. This kid just whizzed through college using precious little time and none of his own capital. I guarantee you that he understands more about economics than you do. Now this kid can pursue his own interests with his degree already in hand and the opportunities that come with a degree and a story that clearly manifests a strong work ethic.

While you (and I) are floating through life trying to figure out what it is that we want, this kid is setting goals and achieving them. Even if his master plan isn't 100% perfect he's gotten his degree in a fifth of the time that it takes most people. He could spend the next 3 years backpacking in Peru and still be ahead.

Good for him.

Re:Moo

[jazman_777]

Counterpoint:
Many professors would like students to explore and experiment in college rather than cram in as much as possible at top speed.

Also, the administrators would like you to take as long as possible to get your degree, to increase the revenue flow.

Re:What a shame

[BunnyClaws]

College is going to be the only time in your life that you will be around that many woman between the ages of 18 and 22. The one thing you will learn is that gravity doesn't apply to college co-ed's. Once your in your 30's and in an I.T. office surrounded by other I.T. workers you will long for your college days. Even the nerdy co-ed's look better in college. Make it last as long as you can.

Re:Moo

[psykocrime]

enjoy your young years while you can. You have the rest of your life to be a grown-up ...

Or you could simply refuse to "grow up" and have fun your
entire life. The idea that you reach a certain age, or point in time and suddenly
have to start behaving differently is B.S. You can be young as long as you
choose to consider yourself young.

Now excuse me while I go put some Twisted Sister [darklyrics.com] on....

Re:The punchline

[ResidntGeek]

What's wrong with interoverts?

Re:You're wrong.

[boristdog]

Son, the point of going to college isn't knowledge. Anyone can pick up a book and learn.

The point of going to college is poon-tang. Pure and simple. Why do you think they make you take English literature classes? To learn what a boring read Emily Bronte really is? No, it's so you can speak meaningfully to the cutie who wears the green satin bra on Thursdays, and so you can find out exactly what is under that bra, son.

Now go learn something on a "collegiate level", or you will turn into a bitter old man.

Wow, he just missed college

[Tweekster]

I actually take pity on this kid. He was in such a hurry to get "to the next thing" he completely missed college.

Sad honestly. College is a nice 4-5 years of your life of with barely any responsibility and a hell of a lot of fun. What is waiting for you after college. Answer: a career, have fun with that for the next 50 or so years of your life, i dont think putting that on hold for a year is gonna matter much in the end.

Judges, yes ... examiners, yes ... attorneys, NO

[Anonymous Coward]

Knowledge does not transform bottomfeeding scum, it just makes them more dangerous.

Power-leveling: a modern trend?

[Avatar8]

Is this a society-changing behavior that we're seeing more often in many different disciplines?

Parallel comparison: I'm in Toastmasters (http://www.toastmasters.org/ [toastmasters.org]), an international organization promoting communcation and leadership skills. There's an educational program that takes an average person about five-seven years to compete. Numerically it boils down to about 55 speeches, a major project in leadership and mentoring about 23 people. The first part (10 speeches) takes about one to one and a half years. I felt like I raced through it in 10 months, but later I heard about someone really racing through it in 10 weeks. I met that person and discovered that they had definitely missed the point. He was not a skilled speaker at all and could barely understand all of the meeting roles or the opportunities for service to the organization beyond the club level yet he had achieved the first level of education.

Indirect comparison: World of Warcraft power-levelers (or any game with specific goals). The people who play a single character to level 60 and they're "done." They quit and state "I've seen and done it all." Completely missed the point. The game, like school or professional organizations, is comprised of a great deal more than a simple ladder for reaching the "top." These people miss out on so much content, relationships and experience. I'd compare them to someone who goes to a buffet, tries a single bite of each item and calls that dinner.

Where is this coming from? Has our sense of achievement been condensed to "do the minimum requirement as fast as possible?" I guess it's the opposite end of the spectrum of people, companies and communities that are so laid back that they see no reason to change anything at all ever.

I am envious of Banh that he obviously has a high IQ and the ability to absorb a great deal of information quickly, though I wonder how long he can retain it. Patent lawyer? What a waste of a good brain.

Re:Moo

[Brickwall]

I'm an engineer, and I didn't think Economics was a "bullshit" course; I found it useful and interesting. It sure helps to have some grounding in the subject when discussing taxation, for example. Much of the misery we inflict on ourselves is a result of so many people having no understanding of economics whatsoever.

Re:Moo

[Anonymous Coward]

Econ and history are 'bullshit'? If your college could hear that, I'd hope they'd take back your degree. Have you ever heard of the 'The Great Conversation' or is all you care about the newest programming language? The fact that you don't think Economics is 'the technical stuff' just leads me to believe you went to a third rate public school somewhere in the South. As a math major, I've run into Economics classes where I was one of the least technical people in the room, amazing really.

after college, life is over

[massysett]

That said, there aren't many times, other than college, in your life where you are as free to experiment, try new things, and "open your wings". Learning about yourself and growing as a person (being social is a HUGE part of this) are the most important parts of college. Being successful (and happy) in life isn't always about what or how much you know. It is very often about how you present yourself (social skills) and who you know. College is a critical networking and personal growth opportunity.

I'm really sad to read this. One can experiment and try new things and 'open wings' long after college is over. When you're in college people often say "these are your best years." That always made me sad when I was in college. It wasn't that I didn't have a good time in college--it was absolutely wonderful--but I was only twenty years old! I didn't want my best times to be over when I (hopefully) had at least sixty years left!!

Good thing people were wrong. I'm still growing, spreading my wings, and trying new things. I hope that life only gets better.

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Re:after college, life is over

[Crazy Man on Fire]

I'm really sad to read this. One can experiment and try new things and 'open wings' long after college is over. When you're in college people often say "these are your best years." That always made me sad when I was in college. It wasn't that I didn't have a good time in college--it was absolutely wonderful--but I was only twenty years old! I didn't want my best times to be over when I (hopefully) had at least sixty years left!!

Good thing people were wrong. I'm still growing, spreading my wings, and trying new things. I hope that life only gets better.

I don't disagree, but college is typically your first opportunity to do this. Not saying that your personal growth stops after college or that your life ends after college, far from it. However, your experiences in college go a long way to forming the life that you live out after college. You learn lots of important lessons outside the classroom that shape the person that you'll be as an adult. College is a growth experience for your whole being, not just the intelllectual parts of your brain.

Re:Moo

[Dun Malg]

Nice idea but at some point those demons called responsibilities kick in. When you've got a spouse and kids or other family that you have to take care of...

Those responsibilities don't just automatically "kick in", all by themselves. Those are all each a yoke you voluntarily place on your own shoulders. One can lead a long life of meaningless irresponsibility with plenty of money and no ill effects if one is careful to avoid things like wives, children, mortgages, etc.

Re:Moo

[ksheff]

my years in college wasn't much different than what my life is like now: go to class/work, at home I'd mess around on my computer & download software from via a BBS/ISP, watch TV reruns and sleep in on the weekends. The only big difference is income and my friends are a few states away rather than just being a few doors down the hall. So for me, college was just as boring as "real life".

Re:Moo

[buswolley]

I am not intending to insult lawyers, but the kid is a genius. Such talent should be used in research to fight cancer, energy, pollution, infectious diseases, or string theory etc. Such talent should NOT be used to sue company A for infringing on company B's patent.

Sure he has the right to choose his own career, but I also have the right to be disappointed in making a choice that was probably motivated by money.

Probably this happened: Father to Son: "You're a genius, son. Now go out and make a lot of money like a good boy."

Re:Moo

[psykocrime]

Sure some things change, but - as another poster pointed out - many of that new "responsibilities" are voluntarily chosen and optional. Nobody forces
you to get married, have children, buy a house, etc.

And as somebody else said (again) you can be responsible and still think of yourself as young, and enjoy life and have fun... it's all about finding the right balance that works for you.

And yes, I'm over 30 myself, but I'm still (mostly) the same guy I was when I was 18, 20, 25, 30, whatever. And I still refuse to refer to
myself as an "adult" or a "grown up" but yet I still manage to have enough responsibility to pay bills, hold down a pretty good job, finish a 3rd college degree, etc.

Re:Stupid

[Grishnakh]

Because no lawyer has ever done anything to advance mankind.

You're right: Except for Gandhi, no lawyer has done anything to advance mankind in the last 100 years or more. The ones like Voltaire, John Adams, and Gandhi are nothing like the lawyers we have in America now.

Re:Moo

[FurryFeet]

Yup. Like Lawrence Lessig. There's a waste for you.

Re:Moo

[Metasquares]

He's not necessarily a genius because he graduated in one year. He simply found a system that allowed him to do such a thing and decided to take advantage of that system.

When I went to high school, it wasn't even possible to take 72 AP credits. Similarly, most colleges will not allow you to take more than 18-22 credits per semester without permission of the dean; 37 would be completely out of the question.

He blazed through college in a year, probably missing out on a lot of the transformative moments as a college student, not the least of which is the ability to get a feel for what mathematicians and physicists do. It's no surprise to me that he wants to become a lawyer.

He is considering a doctorate in math "if he wants to stay in college". That's the wrong attitude to go into a doctorate (speaking as a first-year CS doctoral student myself), because you will be miserable every second of the program if you go for that reason. It should have nothing to do with whether you want to stay in college and everything to do with whether you have a fascination with a narrow area of knowledge that can only be sated by deep study of that area.

Re:Stupid

[Xaer0cool]

Well there is that one patent clerk...

Not Again

[PDExperiment626]

First, I was a double math/physics major in high school; and am currently in my final year of doing a Ph.D. in maths. For the sake of this post not getting that 'jealous' tone; I will say, my academic performance has been good enough where I am currently funded by an international research scholarship (international competition with only 50 or so granted a year). Specifics aren't important as I'm not about to get into an acadmic pissing contest with the person in the article. I will say, I went through the American university system a few years ago; and have been teaching math/physics discussions, reviews and full-blown lectures on and off for the past 7 years or so.

First, this guy (in all likelyhood) is not a genius, as many have said. I agree with those who say that he found a system and exploited the hell out of it. This isn't all bad I believe; I did similar things with AP credits and course overloading. Although, I didn't do it NEARLY to this extent because I wanted to get something out of my education. The only shocking thing here is the Univ. of Virg. actually let this happen; anyone looking at this with some idea of technical education/teaching will regard this as an indication of horrific educational standards at Univ. Virg.

I don't care how smart you are there is no way someone will effectively assimilate the level of maturity to be effective in the areas of maths/physics after one year of Uni. study. There is something in education that is really never mentioned, that I refer to as 'subject maturity'. One can still do text book problems and tests in a subject and still have no maturity in it. Maturity is a reflection of original intuition and effective assimilation to the knowledge base already present in a person. To make this more clear, I'll put out a few stages. Stage 1: you can regurgitate what was read and nothing more. Stage 2: you can work problems if they are identical to problems you've seen worked before. Stage 3: you can work new problems that are based off of combining techniques from solving problems you've seen before. Stage 4: you can work simplier problems in the subject which may be completely different than other problems you've seen. There are obviously higher stages; but a bachelors degree rarely gets someone beyond stage 4. This guy is at stage 2; I'd bet money on it. I've seen so many 'hot shot' students who are REALLY good at working the algorithmic process of solving problems they already know; but have no creative ability in the subject whatsoever... grade chasers. Anyway, the article seems to reflect that this guy is simply chasing grades/recognition; I highly doubt he's in it for the deeper understanding. I bet within 6 months 80-90% of what he's learned will be gone. Also, to base so many credits in math/physics off of high school credit is laughable. There isn't even to mention the violation of logical progression in these subjects. You're telling me this kid was doing Quantum Field Theory as he was learning electromagnetism or general realativity before having any idea about pdes? This just doesn't make sense. Again, I am amazed Univ. of Virg. has such lax course requirements. Either that, or he simply was allowed to bypass many of the higher level courses all together. Either way, it doesn't bode well for the Uni. of Virg.'s educational standards.

That all being said, I believe he will have to spend at least another few years as a student. Any decent employers, graduate school is probably going to laugh at a CV outlining one year of study. I know he's been accepted by the Univ. of Virg. into a masters program; but I bet that's because no other decent Univ. would touch him with a 10 foot pole (it is usually discouraged to do a grad degree the same place you do undergrad).

I said 'not again' because I thought that decade or so when people were ooed and awed by the teenage college grads was over, when it was realized how poorly these graduates performed when put to further studies or into jobs. Oh well, I guess some people will always be impressed by the newest 'good will hunting'.