Massives As Your Third Home 146
sleepwellmyfriend writes "What is a third place? The first place is your home, the second place is work. Howard Schultz, founder of Starbucks introduced third places as somewhere besides home or work where people can socialize and feel comfortable. Think Cheers. Massive multiplayer online games are third places as defined by their characteristics: neutral ground, leveler (no not that kind), conversation, accessibility, regulars, low profile, playful mood, and "home away from home". Online games also contain social capital, which like financial capital, can be acquired and spent, but for social gains instead of financial gains. In a social relationship sense, bridging provides breadth (diverse information and resources) while bonding provides depth (comfort and advice). In online games, players come from a diverse background so they are usually bridging social capital but bonding can occur for long time players."
True for Me (Score:5, Interesting)
When I first moved, I spent a lot of time in game talking to my old friends and generally just hanging out in game. I spent a lot of time in the house on Corellia. You might argue that it was detrimental to me meeting new people in my new surroundings and naturally adjusting but, honestly, I would have spent the time reading books if I hadn't had an SWG account. I guess that's why it was like pulling teeth when the CU hit and all my friends stopped playing. Oh well, at least I had enough time to meet new people while still having fun with old friends.
Re:True for Me (Score:4, Funny)
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1st place - Bar
2nd place - What's her names house, the one you met at the bar.
3rd place - Home (You gotta get a change of clothes periodically...
4th place - Oh yeah, work...gotta do that to pay for the 1st three
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-Homer (Simpson)
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I Don't Think That's Very Fair (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, that's a very large assumption and a slap in the face.
I try to be as open minded as possible (see sig). I grew up on a farm in the middle of nowhere Minnesota and have severely lacked the funds to ever travel anywhere -- though I like to think that the books I've read from libraries have m
Re:I Don't Think That's Very Fair (Score:4, Insightful)
Just want to let you know that I'm there with you. I'm from the same "blue" state, though my views tend to be conservative, and I am a Christian. But I have friends that are both Christian conservatives and embrace-everything bleeding liberals. All I can say is that if someone shouts in your face about not being open minded, but won't listen to you, forget 'em. I run into it all the time... people who think they'd do me a service by telling me my faith is a sham but won't even take the time to listen to why I believe it. Most of the time they haven't actually read a Bible passage, in essence these particular people don't even know what they're talking about or refusing to believe. Shake the dust off your feet and let them wallow in whatever their problems are. I'll listen to you if you're willing to listen to me. I'll even let you go first. My bleeding liberal friends have had this to say about me. "For a Republican and a Christian, he's pretty open-minded."
I don't want to start a religion flame war, but it's the best example I can give. AC's aren't typically worth responding to. And neither are people who don't care to listen.
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I think it's important to remember that at the end of the day none of us are all the different from anyone else.
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Now as for the rest of the state...
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Maybe you're right
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Didnt Sony do this first? (Score:1)
Yeah. Confusing Ad. (Score:2)
They did, and I always found that pretty confusing. For quite some time I thought they wanted to claim third place in the console race - behind the Xbox and the Cube. Weirdos.
Over here in Europe, most people aren't familiar with the concept of "the third place" and probably didn't get the slogan.
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Pub? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Pub? (Score:5, Interesting)
It's a story well-known to all lovers of ale;
For the old English pub, once a man's second home,
Has been decked out, by brewers, in plastic and chrome.
Oh, what has become of the old Rose and Crown,
The Ship, the King's Arms, and the World Upside-Down?
For oak, brass and leather and a pint of the best
Fade away like the sun as it sinks in the west.
The old oaken bar where the pumps filled your glass
Gives way to formica and tanks full of gas;
And the landlord behind, once a man of good cheer. . .
Has been replaced by some child who will just mumble the price as he hands you your . .
With apologies to Ian Robb.
Howard Shultz brought us nothing but another corporate chain. The "third" place predates the "first."
KFG
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Do you mean predate as in PREdate or as in predATE. In other words, do you mean that the third place came before the first? Or you do mean that the third place actively hunts the first?
Both translations make grammatical and syntactic sense; however, from your 'tone' for lack of a better word, I don't imagine that you would indicate the third place to truly have come before the first place.
In which case, it begs the question of whi
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And yet it's what I indicate. We are tribal animals and the group home came before the private home. In fact, the private home was invented as a way to get away from the bloody group home for awhile.
There were also the various "secret" societies. The hunter's society, the warrior's society, the mother's society , etc. All of these forms of group home away from predate the private family home.
The model for the
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As an interesting point and a fun curiousity of English: predate predates predate by a little more than 400 years! The hunted meaning comes from c. 1460 via latin: prædationem. The latinesque contraction did not appear until 1864.
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Thank you. I love that sort of shit.
KFG
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Taking a break from all your worries, sure would help a lot.
Wouldn't you like to get away?
Sometimes you want to go
Where everybody knows your name,
and they're always glad you came.
You wanna be where you can see,
our troubles are all the same
You wanna be where everybody knows
Your name.
You wanna go where people know,
people are all the same,
You wanna go where everybody knows
your name."
Revolutionary... (Score:1)
aeb
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I was planning on writting a cute little piece about playing MMONotepad (IRC for those who don't get it), and how a couple Channels were my "third place" for a very long time. Specialy I am thinking of a time when I was moving around a bunch, and going through some RL problems that having that 3rd place, that was NOT linked to the rest of my life in any way REALLY helped.
Math (Score:5, Funny)
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Work...second? (Score:2)
"Playful" overall mood (Score:1, Insightful)
The Mood is Playful: The general mood of a third place is playful and witty. Players in online games crack jokes during heated battles, perform goofy actions with their avatars, and mock each others' appearances. Rarely are players overly serious about game matters.
Yeah -- that's really been my experience with online multiplayer games -- rarely are players overly serious about game matters. Seems to me the long-time players that the article claims are the real core of the community tend to be some of
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That hasn't been my experience. Sure, they expect you not to be an idiot and to be able to play your character well, but in matters that don't result in raid wipes they do joke around a lot most of the time.
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We joke- but not in the "raid instruction channel".
If it involves losing 5 minutes- we probably don't mind.
But if you do something stupid while joking around and the result is 4 hours of *completely* wasted time for 40 other people- it just doesnt' feel like a joking matter any more.
Its somewhat out of hand (Score:4, Insightful)
I mean, sure its great when you are 16 and your 'home time' will consist of playing sports with some kids down the street or watching tv (or video games in this case), your 'work time' is at max 15-20 hours a week, then you have all the time in the world to play an mmo. No need to worry about cleaning or making dinner. Mom has that covered.
But if you arent 16, you work 40+ hours a week, have to come home and make dinner (or go run to the store first to buy it),clean, relax for a bit, toss in a significant other or a child or two, and your mmo time is nearing zero.
We have enough busy things in this world to toss in a 'Third world'.
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The reason places like the "corner bar" (a la "Cheers") are popular with some people is just as much the fact that it gets them out of the house (and someplace *other* than work) as it is the "social interaction" factor.
It's really about doing something that breaks up your routine,
Re:Its somewhat out of hand (Score:4, Insightful)
So a lot of this is attempting to counter that saying that while people may not physically leave the house, they still do have social lives that do not involve work.
So while it is true that one may not leave the house while playing a mmorpg, but one does interact with other people and get some sence of escape from work and home.
I'm not sure why this article appeared on slashdot, particularly. The idea of muds and moos as third spaces is nearly as old as muds and moos themselves. Go to scholar.google and search for "new media" and "third space" and tons of articles turn up.
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Hi.
I'm 25, I work 40 hours a week. I'm married and have a 2 year old.
My day consists of: drag self out of bed, do best to wake up (not a morning person - I don't mind my job, I just mind waking up). Go to work. Leave work, pick kid up from daycare. Come home, put on Sesame Street eps from the Tivo, make dinner (I love to cook). Wife comes home around 6-7pm, we eat dinner. Kid gets a bath at around 7:45ish, goes to bed at 8:30.
After 8:30, I have until about 11:30 or 12:00 until I crawl in bed, so I ha
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You're right. Part of the reason that I hate getting up is that I don't get enough sleep, and part of the reason that I don't get enough sleep is not that I'm sucked into eve, or into tv, or whatever at night. It's just cause i'm trying to let my brain settle from a day of work and an evening of taking care of a 2 year old and fixing dinner.
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Who's we? Got a mouse in your pocket?
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"social gains"? (Score:2)
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I play World of Warcraft, and our guild just had a get-together. It was a raging party with a bonfire and lots of fun and booze. We even have *girls* that play. I assure you these games can be very sociable. They just are not a substitute for real life.
Home Office (Score:2)
1. Face-to-face contact
2. Exercise
I think the internet in general has such a high impact on and penetration into those "1st & 2nd places" (at least, for the sort of people likely to be reading this post) that the distinctions are becoming a lot more blurred. Hell, working-from-home or at least taking-it-hom
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I've got bicycle rollers in my cave (which is actually made of stone). It's also just large enough for Tai Chi.
I've been known to hook up a take off drive to my rollers for a certain amount of power independence as well. God bless LEDs.
KFG
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People when in public, must, by needs of society, be... well, inhibited by c
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That's funny. In actual social situations I'm usually very outgoing and friend
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Should I just ask my mom to bring me down a glass of lemonade and a sandwich?
Starbucks "introduced" third places? (Score:5, Informative)
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No, he's just a young example of how far the American community has fallen.
KFG
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I think it is a reference to phraseology used by Starbucks' founder, but Starbucks never claimed to have "introduced" them. (In other words, the blogger didn't clarify that he was simply providing Schultz' definition of "third place.")
That or the blogger is an idiot, it's hard to tell.
ehh... (Score:2)
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Chris Mattern
Great, Good Places (Score:3, Informative)
wasnt it Ray Oldenburg? (Score:2)
Eh? i have heard of thrid places before but never this howard schultz guy. i think the concept of third places it attributed to ray oldenburg. [wikipedia.org] though the practice has been around a lot longer. video game related link [ttu.edu]
What's wrong with ... (Score:1)
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home (Score:1)
No Guinness.... (Score:1)
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So a third home in a sense... (Score:1)
My own mind (Score:1)
What people want to hear vs. reality (Score:1)
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There are other MMORPGs than just WoW.
I played Ultima Online for a good while (hence my nick). I'd say that UO itself isn't a 3rd place, but it has lots of 3rd places in it. Some in the form of a virtual version of a real 3rd place such as a bar; in other cases it might be a guildhous
Massives? (Score:1)
I don't feel at home at work. I feel at work at work.
Is it just me? (Score:1)
Home Depot (Score:5, Funny)
Third Spaces and Democracy... (Score:1, Interesting)
Third spaces have long been cited as being the very foundation of democratic society. The mall or Starbucks however are Not public space - they are private - and this can be easily seen if o
This third home is a waste of time. (Score:3, Interesting)
If people but as much effort into constructive pursuits as they put into these games they couldn't help but be very successful. And I don't think there's a real middle ground where you can truly do well and continue to maintain what is essentially a second career within these games.
This is coming from someone who's played a few MMOs... I never invested even a fraction of the time some have put into these games but I still think it was too much time wasted. I certainly wont be making the mistake again.
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Prior art for $500 ... anyone? (Score:2)
Not Mr.Schultz... This is Ron Shea!!! (Score:3, Insightful)
Third Place describes the environment that he has tried to create at the Malls and the Third Place Books in the old PCC in Seattle. They have large central courts that are utilized by the general puplic, gaming communities (he likes chess it would appear), community theater and concerts. Along with a variety of food.
His idea is creating the "Third Place" that you go to hang out. After work and home.
He has been moderately successful, but not as univerally accepted as you may think. I think he is right that there exists the concept of third places, but alot of them exist spontaneously, (like Cheers) and only up to a size where everyone knows your name. And they aren't as successful larger than that. But the concept is successful enough, and they are very pleasent places to visit.
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Not only that, but Schultz didn't really found Starbucks. He joined 11 years after the company was started, then started his own company based on his experience with espresso in Milan. Afterward, he created Il Giornale, and eventually acquired Starbucks, and changed his own company's name... It's all right here:
http://www.starbucks.com/aboutus/CPA-140%20Company %20Timeline.pdf [starbucks.com]
Re:Not Mr.Schultz... This is Ron Sher!!! (Score:2, Informative)
Both are from the Pacific Northwest. But "Third Place" is the mantra not of Howard Schultz, but of Ron Sher. He is the owner of Crossroads Shopping Center [crossroadsbellevue.com], two Third Place Books [thirdplacebooks.com] stores, and three Honey Bear Bakery [ravennathirdplace.com] stores (which led Seattle in the slice of cake and a coffee movement).
"Third Place" -- the concept described by Ray Oldenburg [pps.org] in his book, The Great Good Place [thirdplacebooks.com] -- is embodied in these destinations that Sher has created. They have large central courts that are utilized by the general public,
Then where's Norm? (Score:2)
Unfortunately MMORPGs are no different we have the "hermit" who all he does is play the game til he dies, he's stuck in his "home", he constantly thinks about it, to be away from it too long is painful.
Just because we try to
On first seeing the post... (Score:1)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Staines_Massiv [wikipedia.org]
My third home... (Score:2)
My third home is (Score:2)
Unworkable... (Score:2)
First place? (Score:2)
In which one of them do you spend more of your waking hours?
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In this case, "Leveler" has NOTHING to do with leveling up. RTFA.
Re:My Bicycle and Kayak (Score:5, Funny)
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I'm gunna need two seats.....for the twins.
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Not only do you do physical activity but you manage to do it with your head firmly up your own ass
Also based on the fact you have decided to post your comment on a website specifically for geeks shows that despite your physical prowess, you are not particularly bright.
I guess people who read books recreationally are the same? Or avid chess players?
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Try doing something that involves physical activity for once. It's not pretentious. It's a fun and actually normal activity as opposed to slowly killing yourself over increasing some useless number another few points.
Paddling a kayak or chasing a hockey puck around a sheet of ice accomplish exactly as much in the end as playing an MMORPG. ie, absolutely nothing.
You can get an ad
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Physical activity is not pretentious. Just your attitude on stereotyping ppl that play mmos. Oh, and GP's attitude as well - that is if you are not the same person trying to dodge the monsoon of karma coming your way. Good call posting as AC.
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Playing MMORPGs and doing physical activity are not mutually exclusive in any case; I play soccer every week, I do a lot of walking and I'm going to be taking up martial arts again real soon.
But then I really should know better than feed a troll after being a member of this site for so long.
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Between golfing, cycling, and just walking I get plenty of exercise. The thing is, I don't go around and brag about it. Many people exercise, even MMO players. I don't proclaim what a great paragon of health and fitness (and presumably beauty and human life in general) that I am while simultaneously downgrading those who don't. THAT is pretentiousness.