Plasma: The Next-Generation KDE Environment Review 240
slashy writes, "MadPenguin has taken a quick look at Plasma, the next gen. KDE environment. 'Plasma is an ambitious project being pursued by the KDE 4 team which aims at providing a workflow-sensitive design of the user interface that improves productivity of an average KDE user. The focus is on improving the clarity and reducing the clutter present in today's desktops. The plasma development will bring together key contributors, such as the visual artists, usability experts, technology experts, programmers, and enthusiasts at a very early stage during the development process. This will enable them to create a new desktop environment that meets the requirements of novices and experts alike.'"
Reducing clutter (Score:4, Insightful)
Having said that, I have found that most people will clutter their desktops regardless of what the software tries to do. Remember XP's desktop cleanup wizard, which attempted to help people remove things from their desktops that they didn't use often? I still see the majority of people with hundreds of icons and files haphazardly arranged. When I helped my friend migrate to Linux, it only took him a week to turn KDE into an icon pile. Add Firefox into the mix, which drops downloads onto the desktop by default, and the battle is completely lost.
Re:Reducing clutter (Score:5, Insightful)
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They could stop people creating icons or files on the desktops but that will really annoy people because some just like it there.
Shame I couoldn't get to the ar
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somebody said in another post somewhere beneath the top of this thread:
maybe it would help if in firefox's initial setup wizard, it prompted where you want downloads to go to - somewhere like My Documents\Downloads for Windows, and somewhere like /home/username/downloads/ for Linux with the option to change directories...
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It is possible to change the default download directory rather easily... and there are extensions which help you filter and sort downloads so you can send .mp3 to ~/music, .mpg to ~/video and .doc to ~/trash.
AFAIK downloading everything to desktop by default
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Why prompt? Just create it. The folder itself should probably be on the desktop just for ease of finding it, but at least you'd have one icon and not dozens.
Me, I still can't figure out why firefox can't download a file or a page when I drag it from a b
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It saves to the desktop so users that don't know where files go automatically can find them easily. Hiding it in an automatically created folder, whether it is My Documents\downloads or c:\program files\Mozilla\Firefox\Users\Default.asdfk23o4u\dow nloads
Place the files where users can see them, or ask the user where to put it
...an icon pile? (Score:5, Insightful)
I thought the whole idea of personal computers was to allow people to work they way they wanted to?
You may like clean desktops while others like cluttered desktops.
Let's start a holy war over how many icons can dance on a screen.
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I agree. I myself dont like having more than the minimum of icons in the desktop, I almost never use them. I have a
panel (self hiding) on the right with icons of the applicacions I use often (konsole, firefox, kalc, kedit, eclipse, jabref, evolution). On my windows laptop my start menu/bar is also on the right side. It is a bit bigger than the the length of the "start" button, I have some submenues [folders which you can make cascade with a re
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Of course, I don't think they were talking about desktop icons in TFA. I just wanted to throw in my anti-icon rant here.
Re:Reducing clutter (Score:4, Insightful)
Just putting everything in your home folder
Of course, it's nice to have multiple desktops, so when you're working on a different task you can just go to a different desk.
Hmm.. doesn't seem like you can change the Mac's desktop on the fly.
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There's still the issue of a desktop cluttered with icons.
I rather liked a gDesklets applet with a circular launch bar... you could create sets of launchers by theme or whatever and switch between them.
Everything neatly organised, and the desktop remains completely free of clutter.
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Why do you feel the need to insert a random offtopic troll into an other wise perfectly good discussion?
(sigh) Nevertheless, I feel compelled to feed it anyway; hopefully this will be the end of it:
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I (ab)use Virtue Desktops, I believe Desktop Manager is dead in the water.
To this point:
I wasn't speaking about existing desktop managers, I was referring to a feature that would allow Desktop contents (not application views) to change when moving between contexts (personal, project a, project, b, etc). I believe I've seen a fe
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Re:Reducing clutter (Score:4, Funny)
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I notice that there's some empty space left... Couldn't he find anything to fill it with?
It looks so... empty.
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Re:Reducing clutter (Score:4, Informative)
Oh yes, very well. It is among the worst pieces of idiocy created in the name of helping inexperienced users I know. Apparently it is purely date-driven and disregards the existence of actual user sessions during the time span it waits until moving the user's files from the desktop into a subfolder. The result was that my mum, who often does not log in for a month and more, called me everytime she did log in, saying "I don't know what happened. All the files I created last time are gone." That is, until I visited and disabled it of course.
The fact that this hopelessly thoughtless implementation did not help users to be more organized is no proof that users are hopeless.
Re:Reducing clutter (Score:5, Informative)
Simply re-compiling a trivial GUI app from QT3 to QT4 will give noticable performance and memory usage improvement (even if you do not change the code at all).
Not to mention the other improvements in things like MOC which make debugging and testing easier.
Re:Reducing clutter (Score:4, Funny)
# emerge --update --newuse world
Re:Reducing clutter (Score:5, Funny)
...and the Gentoo crowd goes wild!
Well, they have plenty of time to go wild now.
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Re:Reducing clutter (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Reducing clutter (Score:5, Informative)
There is a Qt3 support library [trolltech.com] in Qt4. It does look like some renaming of classes will be required, but I'd imagine any small codebase could be converted reasonably quickly.
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A quick look? (Score:5, Insightful)
Useful content: 1%
Like the "Buy a Link Now" on the article itself... I think someone just bought themselves a link from Slashdot.
Re:A quick look? (Score:4, Insightful)
I can honestly say I like BOTH gnome and KDE. I prefer to work in gnome but KDE is prettier and frankly more fun.
With KDE I created a totally useless script that pulls down a few images from some websites using wget. I then set the KDE desktop to use a slide show background. So now have a wall paper that rotates through two hi resolution webcam shots of a local beach and the weather radar.
Like I said fun but useless. To get Gnome to do the same I am thinking of writing a desklet.
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Er, wait - nobody answer that...
Re:A quick look? (Score:5, Funny)
Sure, no problem. Vaporware.
(Yes I had to)
Plasma is still in the design phase (Score:2)
the grass is always greener (Score:4, Insightful)
I fall into the former. I think it's a pain when you see some cool feature or eyecandy or whatever appearing in the desktop environment you aren't using... but it isn't enough to make you totally switch your current desktop. And just when you do go and switch, your old environment will come out with some sweet feature and you're back to square one.
i realize it's a complicated issue, and neither KDE nor Gnome is about to fold and allow the other to take precidence... but I still look forward to the day when everyone is working towards a common goal, and when a new user interface element is implemented, everybody can benefit from it.
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All in all, it's a good thing we have a choice.
A single, unified desktop environment would be great for making Linux more accessible to new users. Which is all fine and dandy, but given all the conflicting UI philosophies people adopt, merging would only lead to everyone but the newbies rather dissatisfied.
All in all, I used to be an avid Gnome user, but grew dissatisfied with it. I still use it, though, because KDE is just not there yet, and certain Gnome applets are just way too useful. With Plasma, KDE
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Right now, what you are talking about is actually happening.
UI stuff is not a matter of implementation, but one of design. When the KDE project does something nice, and it happens to work in practice, it's much easier for the Gnome team to add it to Gnome.
But there is a difference between Gnome users, and KDE users.
I see KDE target as people who want the latest features, and the most configurability.
Gnome seems to be about having good features, even if they take a lot of ti
Re:the grass is always greener (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is, when your working on a huge monolithic project like that, people really don't work together. There are arguments and disagreements. Energetical people with radical, new ideas will encounter old farts who want to do things the old way, become disenfranchised and give up. Productive old workhorses will be frustrated by young upstarts trying to pull them in 100 different directions at once, selling a bad idea from 10 years ago as the latest, greatest idea. The project will proceed on the lowest common denominator, implementing vanilla ideas that are promoted simply because nobody could find a reason to reject them.
Would you like it if Apple and MS got together to make a unified desktop? Don't you think that the bureaucracy and organizational overhead would stymie the project and ultimately water down the end result?
Instead of waste and duplication, think of it as parallel development teams, developing, implementing, and polishing the latest new ideas as a presentation to the larger mindshare market. Those ideas might need to re-developed or re-implemented, or they may be ready to be included in larger projects, like KDE or Gnome. It's a very effective and efficient way to harness human motivation and inspiration and deliver new ideas to the masses.
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- OS X
- Windows
- Linux/KDE
- Linux/Gnome
BSD? Nah, it's dead.
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And all you'd have to do is get the other few dozen GUI projects on board as well. In the meantime you can work on unifying Apple and Microsoft, a much easier task.
KFG
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I'm serious. Now and then I install one or the other in a VM in my XP box, set to the same resolution as XP itself, and watch the state of the default menus, menu items distance, drop-downs, font sizes etc. For some reason I can't grasp, they're always bigger and more wastefull than what Microsoft made with XP. And as a result, I always feel my CRT had just lost one or two inches.
I wonder whether you all who us
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I think it's a pain when you see some cool feature or eyecandy or whatever appearing in the desktop environment you aren't using... but it isn't enough to make you totally switch your current desktop. And just when you do go and switch, your old environment will come out with some sweet feature and you're back to square one.
I agree with other posters in that competition is a good thing in this sort of environment. Ideally it'd be made easy to transfer your data and applications from one environment to t
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Let's say for argument's sake that Gnome and KDE are the only GUI choices for Linux and that they are (magically) totally merged tomorrow. Of course, by definition, the problem you o
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I'm in the latter. Competition is good for almost everything. Without the competition, why would they bother to innovate (think about IE6)? Also, being separate, KDE and GNOME (and XFCE, and Fluxbox, and...) will innovate in different directions, so you have options and are not herded into what "most
Redundant (Score:2, Funny)
Not Redundant... (Score:2)
This is GNU/Linux we're talking about, after all :-)
The article (Score:5, Informative)
It has hardly been a few weeks since the release of KDE v3.5.4, one of the most popular desktop environments for Unix/Linux/FreeBSD operating systems, and the KDE development team is already hard at work. They have a dream of revolutionizing the concept of desktop by providing an array of innovative features aimed at improving both the looks of the desktop environment as well as the productivity of end users. In this article, we will look at one such component called Plasma that promises to change the look and feel of a conventional desktop.
Plasma is an ambitious project being pursued by the KDE 4 team which aims at providing a workflow sensitive design of the user interface that improves productivity of an average KDE user. The focus is on improving the clarity and reducing the clutter present in today's desktops. The plasma development will bring together key contributors, such as the visual artists, usability experts, technology experts, programmers and enthusiasts at a very early stage during the development process. This will enable them to create a new desktop environment that meets the requirements of novice and experts alike.
One of the immediate goals of plasma is to provide a better looking desktop. The team is cashing in on the improved graphic capabilities of X server (namely COMPOSITE) and Trolltech's Qt application programming interfaces (APIs) to mesmerize you with those stunning looks. Although a great looking desktop will be a welcome step, the KDE team is not assuming that everyone will have the latest version of X server installed. Thus, care is being taken not to make such looks integral to the functioning of the system. Plasma is being designed in such a way that even people with older versions of X server will be able to effectively use their desktops without the unnecessary frills.
Plasma will be divided into four distinct components. They are:
- Desktop: In plasma, the role of the desktop will be much more than a place where one keeps beautiful looking icons and immediately required files. In fact, it will be a place for the user and the computer to interact with each other. The desktop will no more be a static entity with a fixed set of icons. Your desktop will be capable of providing different kinds of items and services as and when you need them.
- Applet: Applets are small programs, such as clocks, weather notification and application launchers (to name a few) that will help you better manage your work. The aim of the plasma team is to make them easy to develop as well as easy to distribute. They can be authored in a plethora of languages including C/C++, Java, Python and Ruby. The team is currently in the process of developing the Application Programming Interfaces (APIs) that will expose the functionality of libplasma library. After developing the applets, they have to be packaged together with all the artwork, HTML and other resource files into a single archive file. This archive file can then easily be distributed over the Internet.
- Panels: Panels are basically containers for other plasma element. They will be responsible for providing a way to connect applets together.
- Extenders: Extender is a standard graphic element that provides a plasma element to temporarily grow in size (through some sort of animation) and reveal a larger usable space whenever one clicks or hovers over them. This helps to group related widgets that need not be visible all the time and take up important desktop space. Instead, whenever the user invokes them by means of clicking or hovering, the extender provides a mechanism to reveal the extra information.
The KDE 4 desktop aims at revolutionizing the concept of a desktop by providing not only an eye-candy look but also a workflow sensitive design. With full support for newer frameworks such as KHotNewStuffs , it will become extremely easy for applications based on KDE to search and download new plugins, extensions and updates from the Internet. According to Zack Rusin, a prominent KDE developer, "Plasma will blow you away. Nothing you've ever seen or will see in the coming years will come even close to what you'll experience with Plasma. And that's a promise." We agree.
Workflow-sensitive? (Score:4, Insightful)
Sheesh, have we learned nothing from Microsoft? Having the computer decide what things a user can interact with and how the user can interact with them based on a set of hidden, unchangeable rules is counter-productive at best; at times, it can be murderous-rage inducing.
How about we actually help people become better-organized by, oh, I don't know...teaching them some useful organizational skills?!
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If you have to teach people something, you have already failed. Users Don't Read the Manual. [joelonsoftware.com] So if your interface expects them to do so, your interface is probably flawed.
They are not trying to guess what the users might do, they are doing some serious research on it [betterdesktop.org]. As a result, they have come up with some great improvements such as kickoff [kde.org]. And their new HIG [openusability.org]
It is not about the computer deciding what is best, quite the opposite, on usability you are supposed to empower the user [openusability.org]. The link is from
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Having recently taken a job where I'm forced (yes, forced; I'd rather not) to use Linux on my workstation, and having tried various desktop environments, window managers, etc., I don't think this is the problem.
Rather than 'teaching [me] some useful organisational skills', how about designing a desktop environment that just gets the heck out of my way and lets me do my work? The
What I want, part deux (Score:3, Funny)
My list now consists of one things:
That would be super!
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I prefer to design my own desktop (Score:5, Interesting)
My experience with both Windows and OS X is that anytime the OS tries to "help" me it makes life more difficult.
For me the holy grail of desktop design is one that allows me to place what I want, where I want on the desk top and have it remain exactly where I put it.
Even better, when I switch from the 12" laptop to the big flat screen on my desk, allow me two desktop settings that make best use of the different real estate available.
OS X widgets seem like great idea, but I find that the need to pop up or drop into the widget level, and then wait for the actual widgets to load up and begin functioning is a pain in the butt. I'd rather have things like calculators or weather or currency converters right on the desktop and immediately available.
Apple's solution just seems to add more clicks and more time to do routine tasks.
If KDE goes the route of trying to guess what I want, please give me the option of turning that guessing game off.
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Amen to that. I can't figure out why XP on my work laptop is always rearranging my desktop. I've got about 20 different icons on my desktop, is it too much to ask that they don't move around at random times? From what I can tell it looks like when the icons move they are going back to some previous configuration, but I'm not positive. Either way, it's a p
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Just for the record, this is already possible in OS X. You just need to enable "developer" mode with an app like Tinkertool (or using the 'defaults' command). You can then place as many on the desk
Going off KDE (Score:2)
It's nice on a fast machine, but tediously slow on anything under 2GHz. I do like Window Maker [windowmaker.info]. It's a bit different than you probably were expecting, but I think it's a bit truer to what X used to be like before everyone started trying to turn it into Windows.
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http://ktown.kde.org/~seli/memory/ [kde.org]
./ style (Score:2, Funny)
OS covers.... (Score:2, Insightful)
Plasma is just one part of "Appeal" (Score:2, Informative)
If you use Ruby, check out http://appeal.kde.org/wiki/Korundum [kde.org]
Vaporware (Score:2, Interesting)
Don't take me wrong, I belive plasma will be great, I want to some presentations from Aaron Seigo and liked what he said... but I DOUBT it will launch with KDE4. Probally the interface will still (mostly) be the one used on KDE3. You know, we should learn from Microsoft mistakes, they ditched a lot of things (WinFS, most of inte
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Really... obviously you don't remember the times when things like Bonobo or Orbit were supposed to revolutionize the free desktop. Then came KDE2 along with Kparts and DCOP technologies, making true what others had only hyped. I don't expect it will be different this time, since the KDE project has a tradition of delivering what was promised. The only thing I fear it will not be in KDE4 will be Tenor, since Scott Wheeler has already stated he d
Re:active desktop (Score:5, Informative)
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Right. But aren't these things just combinations of XML and Python code? IOW, the grandparent's comment about ActiveDesktop really isn't too far off the mark.
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Don't forget the JPEGs.
Want a .jpeg on your desktop? Sure, enable Active Desktop.
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Oh, yes, that's a very good idea... if you've got spare RAM.
A .bmp of a large .jpg tends to get can't-fit-on-a-floppy big. Not good.
Then again, what do I know... how much RAM does Active Desktop take?
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I do agree that BMPs are a good way to waste storage though, but it's the only way to use a wallpaper in Win98SE without active desktop.
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The in-memory representation of your desktop background is going to take up the same amount of space no matter what format it's in. Compressing your wallpaper only saves space on disk, because ultimately the image has to be decompressed and rendered into the equivalent of a bitmap for it to be displayed on the screen.
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Re:huh? (Score:4, Informative)
Useful information: nil
Reviews of implemented features: nil
Screenshots: nil
What it "will" be: 8 paragraphs spread over two pages for no other reason than to increase advertising revenue.
How they're going to do it: nil
Useful links: nil
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Let's just go all the way back to Xerox [wikipedia.org]...
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I really wish someone would "rip me off" by giving me millions in stock.
Re:Sounds to me like a rip-off of Vista (Score:4, Funny)
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Still, I think maybe you are being a bit cynical here. Of course, lots of people promise that they are going to do lots of new and innovative things. Some of them are lying, but some of them are not. KDE certainly is doing a bit of catching up here, but that's inevitable. Ye
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Re:New Project - Redo X-Windows (Score:5, Insightful)
Care to point out some deficiency in the X codebase?
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Make it always display Pretty Pink Ponies.
Care to point out some deficiency in the X codebase?
I'm living in the past [slashdot.org]
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I don't know about anyone else, but I find myself frustrated by the poor network performance. SSH doesn't compress it well, and applications like the ones based on Mozilla make so damned many X calls (and so many pixmaps!) that trying to use any of my common applications over an SSH tunnel quickly slows to uselessness.
X11 is great. it does everything. It works extremely well on local sockets. Hell, I don't think I'd use anything else - if there was a
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I mean, not with QT, or GTK, or some toolkit, but actually with X?
It takes ~200 lines of code just to get a reasonable hello world program.
Some X functions take like a 9 or 10 arguments, all of which are crusty old structs where you might only care about one or two values-- at most.
That should be your first clue that something is wrong.
Some more clues will occur to you when you realize the amazing amount of useless stuff that was put in back when color displays were exotic ra
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Assuming you are talking about the Xorg server, it's going away for X11R7.3, hopefully.
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Re:New Project - Redo X-Windows (Score:5, Informative)
we should ditch X-windows altogether. there's really no demanding need, at least in the linux world, for X-windows. sure, one could argue that it's a must in thin-client setups, but the overwhelming majority of linux boxes are not thin clients.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. X is being overhauled as we speak (modularization, GLX implementations, etc), but one thing that is staying is the client/server architecture of X. There is nothing wrong with the way it works on a local computer, and it has the added benefit of being able to work across a network. A myth in the FOSS world is that the client/server architecture of X is one of the biggest problems with Unix.
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See here: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xgl [wikipedia.org]
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The only thing that sucks is the lack of a GUI configuration window (to my knowledge), so you'll have to edit the compiz config by hand.
WTF is Clippy... I mean GNU/Clippy? (Score:2)
Gnu/Clippy: It appears you are trying to run Gnome?
If so, please bash your head against the monitor until you are dead.
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