Microsoft Launches the Zune 472
Doug-W writes to mention an Engadget post about Microsoft's launch of the Zune. From the article: "Not a lot of surprises in the specs department, but they've confirmed the basics we've known for a while, like WiFi, 30GB of HDD, built-in FM, a 3-inch screen and the basic music, pictures and video playback. They also finally let slip the screen res -- an unsurprising QVGA -- and some better news on the codec front: the Zune supports h.264, MP3, AAC and WMA. As for ballyhoo, wireless Zune-to-Zune sharing is where the real action is at, and it works pretty much like we've been hearing: you can share a full-length track with a friend, and they've got three times to listen to it over a three day period, after which they can flag the song for purchase on the Zune Marketplace -- unless they're an unlimited 'Zune Pass' subscriber, of course."
The Name (Score:3, Insightful)
Brown? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Let me be the first to say... (Score:4, Insightful)
One thing that we're all still wondering is how will people control the thing? I haven't seen one explanation for how the center "wheel" (if that's what it is) works. I think we'd all like to see a screenshot of the menu/control systems...
The imporant question at M$ (Score:3, Insightful)
Is it really a launch?? (Score:5, Insightful)
Let me be the first to answer... (Score:2, Insightful)
People who want to see something new, not (unlike a certain other company that made product announcements this week) the same old crap with more storage, a smoke-and-mirrors attempt at gapless playback, different colors (again), and an idea that's already been done for years, and a still-overly-restrictive DRM system.
Killing the MP3? (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, I know they claim to play an mp3, but the devil is in the details. As in they will likely make it very inconvenient to use mp3's. Kind of like how easy it is to open may formats in MSWORD, but very difficult to use anything other than
The thing I'm interested in seeing is the wireless sharing. I don't think the average mp3 player consumer -wants- sharing, but I'd be very interested in them proving me wrong.
What's even more interesting will be the first virus transferred from zune-to-zune.
It's microsoft. It had to be said.
what about sharing your own stuff? (Score:1, Insightful)
I imagine lots of people care (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft's markets are largely saturated and under increasing pressure from FOSS and other products. And that's not a good story to tell investors. Microsoft hasn't had a killer product for a while and it's a company that thrives on growth. They need new brands badly because the ones they have are aging, and old brands, while good in financial and insurance markets, are not so good in consumer and high tech markets.
Song-sharing? (Score:3, Insightful)
So let me get this straight... if I have a Zune... and my friend has a Zune...
I can send them a track. Presuming the units sync up, and wireless works, and the phase of the moon is correct, because wireless is still basically tin-can-and-string at times...
Lame. Useless. Unless my friend and I both decided to take a risk and go out and get one of these doohickies each, how would this situation ever come up? Even if you find another Zune owner, what are the chances he also shares you musical interests?
h.264 is excellent for QVGA (Score:2, Insightful)
But does it support (Score:4, Insightful)
As of yesterday, it's a must have
Re:is it enough? (Score:3, Insightful)
And no, I don't consider zune's wireless sharing to be even the "next little thing." It's like trying to take on Kimberly Clark (maker of Kleenax) by selling your own brand of facial tissue. Sure, you can make money, you might even take some of their market share, but you will never be Kleenax. You have to find a new niche if you want to be the next big thing.
Re:This ought to be good! (Score:4, Insightful)
Wireless sharing = new virus vector (Score:2, Insightful)
Also, since the thing supports MP3 and AAC and uses USB to connect, why won't Microsoft support the Mac? It should be trivial to do, and it would eliminate so many complaints about it being a "closed" system. Obviously iPod supports Windows for the market share, but Apple can legitimately claim that they have the only product that supports Mac and Windows.
Re:Two things I care about with this (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Song-sharing? (Score:4, Insightful)
While I can't personally say I'd use this feature much (since I'm long since out of school), it seems to make perfect sense for these types of groups to desire such a feature. I also could see sharing a new song occasionally with a friend so they could purchase it themselves if they wished (since song use is limited). All in all -- this seems more like a "demo song" feature intended to increase music sales (much like listening to samples of songs on the iTunes store, but you get to take them with you).
You don't design a product assuming no one will buy it ("if I find another zune owner") -- you assume it will be a smashing success because of all the great features you've implemented.
And really -- wireless in an open-air area, ad-hoc, works great -- like cell phones!;) You're using it to share a song with someone right in front of you! Your comments (generously modded "insightful") show a distinct lack thereof.
Re:is it enough? (Score:4, Insightful)
Second, what about the accessories? Right now, my iPod can be fully controlled from my Pioneer car stereo through their interface (and it charges the iPod for you too). Think they'll offer the same for Zune players? What about all the other iPod-related devices that have cropped up like clock radios with iPod docks, voice recorder add-ons, and digital camera storage adapters?
Classical MS action... (Score:5, Insightful)
It does not even has branding on it. Just the look of it is not sufficient for branding - look of iPod is a brand itself, this looks like an iPod clone.
Actually I am used to MS strategies like announcing LongHorn with all WinFS and great stuff that just yet still is not here. So I take this announcement like usual. I will think that this is anything worth looking at when I actually can touch one.
Also I have some concerns, especially with:
1. The interface. Those *three* photos look nice but they do not tell anything about how the device works? Is it easy to use? I've used MS PDA (PocketPC) and it was horrible. I am with Palm now which is somewhat less horrible - so I don't se MS mobile products as quite easy to use or reliable.
2. Those ad-hoc wifi networks - how it is going to work? I've used MS PDA with wifi and it was pain. Actually wifi is quite painfull as for now (especially in MS arrangement). So how they are going to wifify those devices? IMHO wifi is not quite good for establishing such semi-PAN networks - BlueTooth is. But wifi - it is a hog on battery for sure.
So conluding - this is not something real. These are few photos even without branding (forget specs, pricing, performance and so on). So it is nothing actually - just to say "hey wait (like few months... or years) and we will have something like iPod is right now!", "don't buy iPod right now - wait (like months... years) for our mythic device" etc.
Quite unfair but at least in this market we know who rocks with launches that are real launches for real existing products and services...
What makes this a product "launch"? (Score:4, Insightful)
All I see here is a half-assed response to Apple's new iPod product launch a couple days ago.
Re:Must be a hoax (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Song-sharing? (Score:3, Insightful)
I see that the Zune downloads a file from another wireless point. Then syncs back with PC and viruses galore.
Lots of potential there.
And ironically, it will use the wireless security holes first 'shown' on a MacBook at Security Focus.
http://daringfireball.net/2006/08/curious_case [daringfireball.net]
Look, it's kind of like P2P... only it isn't.. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Let me be the first to say... (Score:4, Insightful)
You know what else Apple has? Something I haven't seen mentioned in the first 120 comments on this post?
The Dock connector.
Apple's trump card, the 30-pin dock connector and it's communications scheme is par of their defense against other players stealing marketshare.
Want to plug your iPod into your new car? Next model year (which starts, ah in a few weeks), you'll be be able to buy a car from any of roughly 3/4 of the world's automakers that has a built-in iPod dock. The offerings this year aren't bad, either.
I see the requisite oval connector shape on the Zune (since they just couldn't stop at copying Apple's buttons and wheel look), but it's unclear what kind of dock connector they're using. If Apple has an exclusive deal with AMP, you can pretty much write the Zune off (as well as for other reasons, like the "what were they thinking?" color choices of white, black...and brown).
So, to sum up:
Apple has convinced everyone and their brother to put a dock connector in cars, boomboxes, camera connectors, etc. ad infinitum.
Zune does not have a dock connector, and can't use any iPod accessories, including those that come with a "Steering" wheel.
Re:The Name (Score:3, Insightful)
Just ask Len Nimoy [imdb.com]
Ipod is just as weird a name as zune.
now an iRiver, that makes perfectly good sense for a music player name (what?!?).
What I'd really like to know is this:
Is microsoft losing money on each of these (think xbox)?
I could fully see getting one and never buying a single piece of music (online).
Re:Now Apple must play catch-up (Score:3, Insightful)
Apple controls 80% of the portable media player market and has shipped over 60M devices while Microsoft hasn't even set a price for the Zune (their SECOND attempt after the failed PlaysForSure campaign) and you are saying they are the leaders in digital media?
Re:Available in black, white and... *BROWN*? (Score:3, Insightful)
Calling this typical Microsoft and co. bad style is ridiculous. I expected it to be silver, have too many decorative lines, and prominent blue LEDs. But this thing actually looks pretty good.
Re:The imporant question at M$ (Score:3, Insightful)
The rumored price is $300 for the 30 GB version. The 30 GB iPod is $250. So, pretty much, same pricing strategy.
Um...Office isn't over priced? Vista isn't over priced? $300 is 20% more than $250...that isn't overpriced?
Zune to be forgotten... (Score:3, Insightful)
This just doesn't look like an iPod killer to me.
Physically, it looks cheap.
Feature-wise, there's nothing compelling. The wireless feature seems not well thought out and is so limited I doubt most buyers would have that as the top reason to purchase.
And, without a distribution system like iTunes, why would an iPod owner or even a 1st time buyer choose a Zune?
Some others have made points about accessories. That's a good question; what's available from MS? 3rd party support? Retailers signed up to give over shelf space?
Repair policy!
My wife had the screen on her iPod Mini crack while under warranty. Had a brand new unit from Apple in 72 hours. I bought a Shuffle like day one and it malfunctioned about 8 months out. Apple shipped me a new one and I returned the old one...in the same box...at their cost. Got the Shuffle in 48 hours! I opened both cases on the Apple site in about a minute with no hassle whatsoever.
What will Microsoft offer? Do they have the equivalent of AppleCare?
If they (MS) were smart, they'd have made the wireless work for an optional headset. No cords or dongles hanging from your player. Extra bucks for the "upgrade" from earplugs. Maybe they should let the Xbox marketing folks loose on this.
No...I don't think Steve Jobs will lose any sleep...or money...over Zune.
For the few people that would actually *use* FM... (Score:2, Insightful)
Not enough for me (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't have any WMA media. I do have iTunes Fairplay media. It doesn't support that.
Further, all these "Features" are typical MS lies - the file sharing won't work with all media, It may have a screen that is 0.5" larger but will it play movie content? Are you sure?
It doesn't even support MICROSOFT'S VERY OWN "PLAYS FOR SURE" DRM!!!!
Re:Let me be the first to say... (Score:2, Insightful)
This is easy. (Score:3, Insightful)
If they didn't there would be plenty of people who would not consider a Zune because it would mean having to rerip large CD collections that are already in AAC format. Apple avoids this same thing by giving iTunes the ability to convert WMA files to AAC format. Microsoft's solution is better becuase you don't lose audio quality from transcoding to another lossy format.
Supportting H.264 has to do with the video iPod having the same format/resolution. There are many programs available that will convert DVD's and other computer video file formats to mpeg or H.264 at the resolution the iPod can support. Microsoft can now make use directly from this work being done for the iPod's benefit instead of having start an uphill popularity effort to get others to write the apps on their own accord. They could release a utility themselves, but that might cause some legal snafus they don't want to get involved with about ripping DVD's.
This is a good thing for consumers as it helps establish de facto standardized (non-proprietary) formats that can be used on a variety of players.
Re:WideScreen (Score:3, Insightful)
Digital video off of DV cams on SD res comes in at 720 x 480, no matter if you turn on the widescreen mode or not. The widescreen mode changes the pixel aspect ratio to 1:1.2 which is what we see in video as "widescreen".
All that being said, if widescreen on computers is so widely misunderstood, what good would having a widescreen device be if noone understands how to properly make media for it?
Re:is it enough? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:WideScreen (Score:3, Insightful)
This is the same 4:3 aspect ratio that the iPod has. What exactly about it is widescreen to you?
Re:Now Apple must play catch-up (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, unlike all those neat new iPod games and radio that work on my 4th gen photo iPod. oh, wait, Apple screwed people once again and decided that backwards compatibility wasn't going to sell more iPods. Seriously, a radio requires a 5h gen ipod? By the way, that's not a click-wheel, it's an 4-way rocker button which in my opinion is much better than the click wheel.
By the way, how many people do you honestly believe are using Windows 95/98? How many of these people do you honestly think are the likely target audience for this device? Let me give you a hint, it's between 1 and -1.
Re:This ought to be good! (Score:4, Insightful)
i know a lot of people who bought the ipod solely because it's apple and apple is cool and if you say otherwise, you're (as you said), an idiot.
the zune has more features than the ipod already built into it. it's not the same thing everyone else has. it supports more formats than the ipod. it (according to a review i read last week) has a more intuitive interface than the ipod. sounds to me like the apple fanboys are just whining that microsoft did something right.
Re:This ought to be good! (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd rather choose [insert object here] based on how well it performs the functions I require than whether or not "everyone else has one."
It amazes me how image conscious geeks can be. A large subsection of geek culture will go to such extreme lengths just so that they can brag that they don't fit in. And then they complain because nobody understands them...
It's ridiculous.
Re:Let me be the first to say... (Score:3, Insightful)
i read somewhere today that Microsoft claims it will take the Zune 5 years to catch on. i could be a dick and point out that the iPod's 5 year birthday is not for another month (i had to look this up). who knows what the ipod will be like in 5 years, if it even still exists. when you consider 5 years of advancements JUST in terms of data storage and battery size/life.... yikes.
Re:Not enough for me (Score:2, Insightful)
And that's your unfortunate decision.
I could say the opposite if I had more WMA+DRM media than AAC+DRM, although I would have better selection, since Microsoft is more openly licensing (read: 'is licensing') the WMA+DRM codecs than Apple is with AAC+DRM.
Of course, I'll just be happy with my unencumbered MP3 that plays on damn-near anything with an audio jack. (Yeah, if I was a purist, I'd be up-in-arms for an unpatented format, but until someone sues the LAME folks, there's little practical difference.)
Re:This ought to be good! (Score:3, Insightful)
And I'm a goth, for crissakes, so I know all about people choosing to look/act different from mainstream society simply to be cool. But I'm also not a very good goth, because I don't stop liking bands after more than 12 people know who they are, and I know when to clean myself up and take my piercings out so that I can function in society with a job a bit more lucrative than working as a Hot Topic clerk.
Here's my thing, in a nutshell. If product A does everything you need, and does it well, but is popular, why choose product B, which is inferior simply because it ISN'T popular?
Re:Let me be the first to say... (Score:5, Insightful)
Give me a break. There is a huge difference between coming out with a proprietary technology that SOLVES A PROBLEM and being able to successfully promote it vs. calling OEMs on the phone and saying "Ship Netscape and Die".
Re:Competition (Score:1, Insightful)
If it's a call-in show, you might want to call and participate in the discussion from time to time. I listen to Penn Jillette's [pennradio.com] podcast on a daily basis, but there are times when I wish I could have called in (or emailed during the show) to share my thoughts. I'm always about 24 hours behind, so obviously that's never possible.
Re:This ought to be good! (Score:3, Insightful)
Zune supports h.264, MP3, AAC and WMA
Not mmuch "more" file types, and when did anyone like or use WMA?
Re:Now Apple must play catch-up (Score:3, Insightful)
Right, but he said that without having used the Zune. I'm not sure if WiFi sharing feature will be cool, or completely lame - I haven't used it or seen it used. I'm very confused about many aspects of the Zune. For example, it doesn't work with Microsoft's Plays For Sure. Why not? Besides Fair Play, Plays For Sure is the 2nd most popular DRM music solution.
Does it work with FairPlay? If not, and they are coming out with yet another format I'm just not sure that I'd be willing to take a gamble as to whether it would catch on.
Someone mentioned that it supports some huge number of formats, but I can't find a list anywhere. What formats? Does it support Ogg Vorbis?? If it doesn't support Ogg, Fair Play, or Plays Fore Sure, then what am I going to put on it? MP3s? Every player does MP3. WMA? OK, most non-iPods do that, although I'm not totally sure where I get WMA files.
Does it support IPod peripherals? If not, do they have any peripherals lined up for it? Will it work in my car? Can I get a boom box for it?
I don't see how citing one feature iPod doesn't have which sounds like (admittedly without having used said feature) it would not be all that useful makes them a "technology leader".
Re:is it enough? (Score:3, Insightful)
Only time will tell if the wifi is a real deal-maker or a lame non-starter. It's kinda like the FM tuner; not enough people want, need, or use it to make it a deal-maker in a fight between iPod and knockoffs. And, if the wifi is unusably lame or unnecessary, then yes, Zune WILL be functionally equivalent to your Nano, at least for the average buyer. It's the average buyer that makes a company top dog, not a fraction of a niche market.
No way. (Score:3, Insightful)
A player that would not recognize this reality would be dead at birth.
Re:But does it support (Score:3, Insightful)
Or the Beatles. Or RadioHead. Or pretty much any classical or electronic music, ever. Or any DJ mixes.
In fact, it's only if you listen to pop, rock, or country that you *wont* care about gapless
P