Linux Desktop Ready, Says Mainstream Media 387
DeathElk writes, "The Sydney Morning Herald recently featured an article espousing the virtues of desktop Linux. From the article: 'Linux is shedding its hard-core techie image in a bid to woo ordinary human beings seeking an easy-to-use operating system that can be downloaded for free.' Is this a step forward for widespread GNU/Linux desktop adoption? Too bad the article doesn't mention the large range of live CD/DVD distributions available for try-before-you-fly, or the range of Windows applications tested and working under Wine." Also, the article is slightly unclear on the concept of open source, defining it as an arrangement "where the source code can be modified upon the request of users or other developers."
Clarity/Concision = null pointer (Score:5, Funny)
The mainstream media is never confused with the meaning of open source.
Lies.
Then what for...? (Score:5, Funny)
-uso.
Re:Then what for...? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Then what for...? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Then what for...? (Score:2, Informative)
The bit the FA doesn't quite get right is that even if Ubuntu is fantastic and easy and all those other good things for 'ole Joe Sixpack, the typical non-geek computer user is *never* going to independently install Linux him/herself. I'm a freelancer, and I've got clients who work in corporate environments who call me in a panic if they accidentally open a cmd.exe on Windows. That is, they interpret the mere presence of a command prompt, in a window, as a critical failure of their computer.
Now, we geeks might finally be able to begin offering Linux as an option for our friends, family, and customers, and not be met with "Huh?," but it'll still be a long time yet before Joe the drywaller, or Jim the doctor, or even Marge, the accountant, actually seeks out a Linux box for an objective, independent reason.
Re:Then what for...? (Score:3, Insightful)
Come to think of it, Dell or HP should do a Mac-like marketing campaign for linux PCs: "don't want viruses? don't want spyware? Want to do everything else you actually want to do on a computer? Buy this....it's $200 less than a Windows PC, and $1200 less than a Mac PC!"
Re:Then what for...? (Score:2)
Re:Then what for...? (Score:2)
Re:Then what for...? (Score:2)
Of Course! (Score:5, Insightful)
After all, the Mainstream Media is well known for its expertise in IT and its reliability as a source of proven facts and sober analysis!
Hrm.
Actually, now that I think about it, I do believe this is proof positive that Linux is absolutely not desktop ready.
Re:Of Course! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Of Course! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Of Course! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Of Course! (Score:2)
Re:Of Course! (Score:4, Insightful)
I thought it might be, but it really isn't. I recently installed ubuntu and kubuntu, and although they are leaps and bounds better than anything else I've used and it's getting really close to being ready, it really isn't.
some problems I encountered (which should be relatively easy to fix) are:
I'm a huge proponent of linux, but it's really a lot more painful to use on the desktop than windows or osx. although it's got some nice features, it's playing follow-the-leader to the big 2, for the most part, and hasn't fully implemented features that users expect. it'll be nice when they finally get that far.
don't get me wrong, linux is fine for the desktop for the techy crowd. but not for the mainstream. Gramma could use it if all she's gonna do is type letters, surf the web, shop on amazon, and send/receive email. but when 13 year old jessica wants to play her music and do crap with myspace, she's SOL.
Re:Of Course! (Score:3, Insightful)
Insert a device: Haven't tried an iPod, but the USB storage devices I've plugged in have shown up on my desktop. :)
mp3: this is a real problem. I used one of those neat programs that automatically stuffs ubuntu with the stuff you want, but nothing like that comes with ubuntu, so you have a good point.
sluggish filesystem browsing? I used ubuntu, not kubuntu, but on ubuntu nautilus comes up plenty rapidly. Maybe you should call that ksluggish kfilesystem kbrowsing?
doesn't remember system volume, what are you talking about? this doesn't even make sense, unless you're a mac user. the rest of us have different terminology. do you mean that on macs it doesn't properly set the system volume? Don't tell us, go file a bug.
package manager really needs a more advanced user to utilize properly. totally invalid, synaptic is confusing, except that if you go to the bottom of the applications menu there's an option "Add/Remove..." which handles installing/removing the most popular applications, which will be more than enough for most users. In fact it's precisely what you ask for. it even includes xmms, which can play mp3s.
slow boot time: linux problem in general. It's getting better.
apps feel cluttered: most windows apps feel cluttered, too.
overly complex system settings: provide some examples. Ubuntu, if anything, is overly dumbed down from my standpoint, in terms of GUIs.
poor laptop support: true. not much to be done about it, except let time pass, and convince more vendors that they want to support linux. I'm sitting at a Compaq nw9440 with several pieces of hardware not supported by linux, like the fingerprint reader.
the LiveCD doesn't do precisely what YOU want it to do, because it's not an installer, it's a liveCD. It DOES give you instruction to double-click the installer icon on the desktop if you want to install, when you boot; the installer has a pretty simple set of options for installing, and can just partition and throw on the default install with very few clicks.
you do make some good points, but I think in other areas you're setting higher standards for Linux than any other OS manages to conform to.
Re:Of Course! (Score:3, Interesting)
as for our differences...
sluggish filesystem browsing? I used ubuntu, not kubuntu.....
what kind of machine are you running? now, I can't vouch for gnome's nautilus, but konqueror is slow on up to 1ghz machines. I'll play with gnome again this week and maybe I'll change my mind.
although that does bring up another potential thing to trip up new users... too much choice. most people don't want choice, unfortunately. at least not until they get more tech savvy and understand the difference between "memory" and harddrive space. (remember, there was a time when the majority of people knew nothing of cars).
about the system volume... you'd think that since the powerbook hardware is more standardized, they'd have better support. typically, installing linux on macs (in the last 6-7 years) has been a lot less of a headache than installing on x86 machines. less hunting for drivers because it's just a matter of saying "oh, b&w G3? use these ethernet drivers, these sound drivers work on all new-world macs, and this driver for that thing and we're set", where on x86 boxes, I find myself hunting through dmesg and lspci a lot more often. personally, I think it's an issue with the system resetting the system volume on boot (during initialization). I don't think it's up to the hardware, necessarily to remember stuff like systemvolume after a reboot.
About the package manager... it's still confusing. I've gotten the hang of it, but I can see how a new user would get tripped up. especially when it comes to enabling universe and multiverse repositories. I haven't used the add/remove programs thing, actually. I should check that out. I saw it, but never looked into it.
slow boot/(environment)login time- that's my point. general linux problem. =)
apps being cluttered: yeah, most windows apps are cluttered. most windows apps interfaces are horrendous. OSX's got a nice toolkit for creating interfaces which enables developers to create much more elegantly designed GUIs. linux really could learn a lot from there. programming for gtk is a pain. especially when you want to space things out a certain way, I find myself creating nested boxes with additional padding to keep things from looking too cluttered and to make it look like it was actualyl designed rather than automatically created by a computer.
about the overly complex system settings- I'm mostly talking about KDE's system settings. you go to modify stuff and there's just piles and piles of options crammed into the window. and some views that have less items have a textbox for 1 or 2 digit numbers stretched to 100% of the view's width.
and about the live-cd. it used to be that you could download a live-cd (for checking out the OS, with an option to install) or you could grab an install CD with a text-based installer... but it seems that in recent times, the only time you get an install-only disk is for server installations. I really wish the live CD at least popped up with a thing saying "WELCOME TO THE LIVECD FOR [distro]! would you like to install or just play?" or something to that effect.
the installer really should have a streamlined install. friends who I recommend ubuntu to (because it's the simplest distro, imo) have a lot of trouble because they don't quite understand what to do when it comes to partitioning or anything. there should just be an auto-install. even less questions. get my friends off my back. =)
I'm actually planning on putting xubuntu on my 600mhz pentium3 this weekend to play around... KDE CRAWLs on that box.
on a side note... I'm really more of a Gentoo guy. I've been dabbling with ubuntu because I wanted a quick install and quick package installation. I'm a little sick of waiting for an hour to install php5 on older hardware, and waiting overnight or longer to get X, KDE, and firefox installe
Re:Of Course! (Score:2)
Thinkpad A21p, Mobile P3-850MHz, 384MB RAM. I also run ubuntu in a virtual machine on my dramatically faster Compaq nw9440 (Core Duo T2600, 2GB RAM) but I'm talking about the thinkpad here.
That's a KDE thing. The settings are quite simple on GNOME.
AFAIK the text-only installer works fine for desktop systems, it's just the only way to do unattended installs and such that you need for corporate use.
EVERY OS should have a "one-click" install, or as close as you can get what with registration keys and such. So I fully agree with you there. Most users don't actually need to configure anything.
My first linux was slackware. Then I ran caldera network desktop, which was based on an early redhat. Then I went back to slackware for a while, then to redhat itself. I potzed around with other systems for a while, and ended up on gentoo. Now, I'm using ubuntu, because it doesn't suck. Gentoo doesn't suck either, but it's more hassle than I want to go through for a desktop system. It would be great, however, for a corporate desktop, simply due to the level of control you get over the whole process. Put distcc and ccache on every node in your network, and you can do your upgrades in no time.
Re:Of Course! (Score:3, Funny)
Look, it's simple to get an ipod to mount automatically, it was VERY CLEARLY EXPLAINED in this post [theaimsgroup.com] to the kernel mailing list last may. you just have to apply the patch like this and recompile:
note that the procedure is different if you are running Ubuntu "Dumpy Doper" releas on an Apple PPC with an nVidia card, as CLEARLY EXPLAINED in this forum thread [ubuntuforums.org].
noob.
Re:Of Course! (Score:3, Interesting)
Just pointing out the mindset that will guarantee that Linux will never be better than Windows. It doesn't matter that Windows programs have the same problem if it is a valid problem.
You don't see Mac users constantly comparing their software to Windows... that's because Mac users have a sense of identity more complex than "we're not Windows." Linux needs to develop this, or it will never be better than Windows. (Because, whenever somebody suggests a problem with Linux, someone else will reply "well, Windows has the same problem" and nobody will act on it.)
Re:Of Course! (Score:2)
What's wrong with myspace and music on Linux? My best friend pretty much lives on myspace, and she uses Linux.
MP3 is a licensing issue (Score:4, Informative)
Also, a nitpick - GNU/Linux isn't ready for the naive user, but X/Mozilla/OpenOffice/Linux might be. Compilers and command-line tools with extra-long option names and EMACS are all fine things, but they're for somebody who's willing to RTFM, not for the couch-potato consumer.
Re:MP3 is a licensing issue (Score:2)
I dunno about X... it still feels like it's designed for uber-advanced users. programmers, even.
Misleading Title (Score:3, Funny)
"World is Ending! says People in General." A lone man on a streetcorner was quoted....
I wish I could agree with this (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm more tech savvy than most and I still find Linux to be a pain in the ass when installing applications and setting up stuff. The problem is while most distros share a general code base, a lot is slightly different enough to make compiling/installing apps a royalpain, and the documentation is often less than stellar.
Having recently put a lot of effort in getting Gentoo, Ubuntu, KUbuntu, and before that spending several years with Red Had machines, I cannot see giving normal users Linux machines.
In the business world it's been ready for years (Score:2)
Re:I wish I could agree with this (Score:2)
only problem..... it will not play mp3's, video, flash, most java sites, etc...
so it takes 3-5 hours of a seasoned pro to fix all that crap that should be in there already but the asshats in the US government are more intersted in making "illegal" in some stupid way.
if someone would make a ubuntu package and drop it in the repository that is called "fix ubuntu multimedia" that had everything in it and all the tweaks it would absolutely rock.
Unfortunately you need to install 35 different obscure named packages from the advanced package manager...
Re:I wish I could agree with this (Score:4, Informative)
Google Easyubuntu
Given it and forgoten it. (Score:3, Informative)
Next, as far as administrating the box goes, how many people really do any administration beyond clicking the install updates now button? 90% of the people I know do auto updates for Windows & when something goes wrong they show up at my door & cry. From what I hear from other people who are techs, it's about the same everywhere. People don't know how to 'administer' a computer, and they don't want to know. Ubuntu & Fedora use yum, Debien uses apt, between the 2 I don't think I have had to manually compile a program for any generic use. Last one I compiled was the BRL-CAD [brlcad.org] system I wanted to play with. Not exactly something that's high enough demand to get packaged for a repository. I've had to install & configure autocad on systems also - it wasn't any harder to do the compile.
Last note, what documentation have you been reading in the proprietary software world that's much better? The booklet that came with the HP I was working on this week was a font of usefull information telling me that everything is golden out of the box & call this number if it wasn't. Supposedly there's documentation in MS software, but I've never found it to be usefull if it wasn't just pointing me to which menu selection to use to do something - Excel seems to be the exception there, but it didn't start as a MS product IIRC.
Re:Given it and forgoten it. (Score:3, Insightful)
You seem to have forgotten the rest of my sentance - "My town of 6K people supports 2 computer repair shops that are busy and looking for help" - It's not a generalization based on 6 computers, it's based on the fact that 6000 people can support 12+ people with their PC related problems - not including all the people still under warentees from Dell/HP/etc.
Why? because that's the question you asked : "What happens when they plug in a new $25 usb device from bestbuy/fry's? Or purchase a $5 video game? Or upgrade the harddrive and do a "system restore"?" While I don't usually get picky on sentance structure or spelling - you did create an abysmal compound sentance wherein they was the subject. As for not being able to do it at the local shop - every one in my area has at least one person on staff that can install & configure Linux. From my experiance, unless you're doing a system with proprietary hardware (laptops and some integrated soundcards), there aren't many things that don't work off the shelf except wintel modems. Also anyone who can't figure out how to configure Evolution instead of OE, probably shouldn't be working in a PC shop.
Perhaps, but any more often than bad activeX has trashed a system? Personally I have never had FF crash from Flash, Java yes, but not Flash.
Hmm, easy yes, try getting a 'simple' windows executable to run on a mac. Oh are we talking Documents - like Excel, Powerpoint, etc - you know the ones that won't open right unless you have the right version of MS Office, or know what version they were saved in so you can import them properly? Most of the 'oh check this out it's soooo cool' Windows exe files I deal with have spyware built into them, I still fail to see the problem with them not running.
It's not my implication, I direct your attention to your quote "What happens when they plug in a new $25 usb device from bestbuy/fry's? Or purchase a $5 video game?" Your statement was that people shouldn't run Linux because the cheap $5 bargin bin software won't run. I was pointing out it won't run on a Mac either. For you present comment, I am at a loss as to which simple applications won't run? Solitare - whoot 30+ versions built in along with Mah-Jong, minesweeper, etc. Any time people change OS, they are going to find some applications they could run before but now can't. Is your statement that everyone should use Windows so we don't have to change? As for names, etc of OSS products, I direct your attention to Tucows [slashdot.org] they have a nice selection to download. Is that so much harder than going out to the store to buy it on cd
Re:I wish I could agree with this (Score:2)
Would you rather give the average every day user the responsibility of keeping various programs patched using their respective update mechanisms, keeping virus and spyware definitions up to date, and running regular checks? That's what it's like on Windows these days: you need to put in a lot of time and be reasonably tech-savvy.
``I'm more tech savvy than most and I still find Linux to be a pain in the ass when installing applications and setting up stuff.''
What distro have you been using? Installing software in Ubuntu: go to add/remove programs in the menu, find your program, select it, click [apply changes], done. Installing USB printers or scanners? Just plug 'em in. It doesn't get much simpler than this, and it certainly isn't on Windows. Still, Windows is considered Ready For The Desktop(C)(R)(TM)(WTF).
``The problem is while most distros share a general code base, a lot is slightly different enough to make compiling/installing apps a royalpain''
How does this apply to J. Random Luser running a single distro on a single machine? Or even a single distro on multiple machines? If you make things difficult for yourself by using various operating systems then, yes, it will take more effort.
``, and the documentation is often less than stellar.''
Could be better, yes. But the same can be said of documentation on Windows and OS X, and yet these are considered RFTD(C)(R)(TM)(WTF).
``Having recently put a lot of effort in getting Gentoo, Ubuntu, KUbuntu, and before that spending several years with Red Had machines, I cannot see giving normal users Linux machines.''
Seeing the pains people go through on Windows, I can't believe it's better than Ubuntu.
Re:I wish I could agree with this (Score:2)
Re:I wish I could agree with this (Score:4, Informative)
You can do that, but it takes a more sophisticated user and some reading to figure out. (Something I've been too lazy to do.) apt-get has a -t flag that lets you choose which distribution to grab from (e.g. apt-get -t unstable install package). There's also something called pinning, where you edit your sources.list and assign different values to different distributions. I know Knoppix makes use of this to do a mix of stable, testing, and unstable packages. There's a bit of an explanation of it here [debian.org]. If you have multiple distributions in your sources.list, synaptic lets you choose which available version of a package you want as well.
That being said, I've never tried these things myself, so I don't know if mixing distributions leads to dependency hell or what. Maybe it's great, maybe a huge pain.
I think your case is special. (Score:2)
It sucks, because in fact I've been there too. I've done the epic 6-hour ndiswrapper install, and numerous other problematic things, and remember them vividly
Too vividly. In the heat of battle I forget that I've probably installed and least 50 pieces of software on each of the 10 or so flavors of Linux I've tried. Making about 500 packages, of which maybe 20 (4%) have required more than the 1 minute to run the system package manager's install command, or the configure/make/make install from source.
I just think it averages out to a fairly-even proposition versus alternatives you have to pay for.
Re:I wish I could agree with this (Score:2)
One of the reasons I switched to Ubuntu over Windows is because installing programs is much easier in Ubuntu. In Windows I have to search all over the net for an
Mainstream? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Mainstream? (Score:5, Funny)
Slashdot has spoken.
Re:Mainstream? (Score:3, Funny)
Because the newspaper office lies on the banks of the main stream flowing through town.
Re:Mainstream? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Mainstream? (Score:3, Informative)
Depending on how you measure, the Sydney Morning Herald is actually more widely circulated than USA Today.
How?
Well, if we consider that USA Today is a USA newspaper and SMH is an Australian newspaper, then we can say that the wideness of the circulation can determined as a ratio to the population of its respective markets. USA has a population of 299,360,879 (2006 est.) according to Wikipedia, and Australia has a population of 20,555,300 (2006 est.). Now, USA Today, the most widely circulated paper in the United States, according to Wikipedia, has a circulation of about 2.25 million newspapers per day. SMH has a circulation of 365,000. So if we divide the circulation by the respective population, we can 0.0075 newspaper per capita for USA Today and 0.0178 newspapers per capita for SMH. That would make SMH more than twice as widely circulated in its respective market than USA today.
Re:Mainstream? (Score:4, Insightful)
ofcourse (Score:2, Interesting)
I agree (Score:5, Insightful)
A few weeks ago, I started playing with Ubuntu, and I gotta say, there is no reason why it can't replace windows on the desktop. If Dell will start installing it on systems (thus knocking $100 buck off the price of a machine), then it can make some serious in-roads, and knock Windows back.
I don't know if it's ready for a corporate enviroment, though. Although I don't like MS, their combo of Exchange, AD, and DC is pretty powerful.
Re:I agree (Score:2, Insightful)
Dell (or any other PC vendor) has no interest in "knocking Windows back" and they probably only pay in the $20-$30 range for Windows with their volumes.
Re:I agree (Score:2, Insightful)
Is it on all my work and home desktops? YES. If I set it up for someone would they be able to do 90% of everything they need to? YES. But it's that other 10% that keeps it far fro mbeing ready... and although 10% may seem small... it accounts for a lot of frustration for Joe-user...
Re:I agree (Score:3, Informative)
All your complaints hold true to Windows. I'd argue that Windows isn't ready for the desktop...
Re:I agree (Score:2)
But your right about issues like DVD playback. Also, you don't have xvid or mkv playback. So the average Joe still needs a savvy user to explain this codec stuff, or point him to videolan.
Re:I agree (Score:2)
If it came to it, Microsoft would give them Windows for free rather than have Linux being offered as the default OS by the world's biggest computer manufacturer.
(When I say default, I mean that when you spec up your PC, Windows would be an extra-cost option, and Linux would be free)
Re:I agree (Score:2)
Remember Walmart's big push to mainstream OEM Linux?
The revolving-door of Linux systems and distros that passed through walmart.com?
Dead and buried.
There are enormous economies of scale when you build for the Windows market. Dell's Back-To-School special was a $279 Celeron system. 17" CRT. Word Perfect. One-Year Warranty. Home Delivery.
Linux doesn't knock $100 off the sticker price. You will be lucky if you can manage $20.
Retailers hate maintaining dual inventories and support structures. The OS with a (charitable) 2% share gets cut off at the knees.
The home market won't won't touch and stores won't stock systems that can't play licensed music, videos and games out of the box. Windows delivers aftermaket sales of hardware, software and peripherals.
Free-As-In-Beer Linux is the fantasy. Twenty-five years of MSDOS and Windows in the home and office is the reality.
Re:I agree (Score:3, Insightful)
If Dell will start installing it on systems (thus knocking $100 buck off the price of a machine), then it can make some serious in-roads, and knock Windows back.
First, Dell probably pays in the range of $70 for each copy of Windows pre-installed. They make a significant portion of that back by being paid to include random software that is arguably spyware or adware, or is a limited version of some software. Most of that software runs only on Windows, so they'd take a hit unless they could get those software makers to port said software. More importantly, doing so places them at great risk. Dell's only real selling point is price. They sell cheap, cheap systems with low margins. Imagine if the price for Windows on each of those computers rose to $150 when they renegotiated their OEM license with MS. And their MS Office prices went up as well. And their Servers and everything else from MS they currently get a discount on. At that point Dell has bet their company on Linux, taking off in the home, a risky proposition at best for such a small initial return.
I don't know if it's ready for a corporate enviroment, though. Although I don't like MS, their combo of Exchange, AD, and DC is pretty powerful.
Actually, I think this is where Linux is ready. A big company can save a lot of money by ditching all their Windows license fees and competent admins have already managed large scale migrations of this sort. There is really very little Exchange, AD, and DC bring to the average user's desktop that open source tools do not do just as well, but cheaper. They may be harder to configure or require a better admin, but that is not something that effects the end user and you can hire quite a few good admins for the millions you're saving in licensing. I'd go so far as to say any corporate entity on Windows right now, that is not looking at Linux as an alternative to an eventual upgrade to Vista, is incompetent or not acting in the best interests of their company. Not that it is the right time for everyone to move, but it should be seriously evaluated as an option if they want to remain competitive.
Re:I agree, but disagree with your reasoning (Score:2)
Now, how long before AOL, Real, Earthlink et al start making Linux versions of their stuff? (ok, it will be awhile, but I think it will happen.)
I think Vista might be a factor in this. If it stinks, and continues to stick for awhile, people (I hope) will start looking for an alturnative.
It is Desktop ready... (Score:2, Informative)
The lengths I had to go to get my laptop working with Ubuntu were staggering.
Personally I don't think it's ready for mainstream as there are still loads of things that should be automatically installed by default (OpenOffice, FireFox, Email client).
Oh, I might as well plug my FAQ for installing Ubuntu on a Toshiba M70 [ubuntuforums.org]. It might work elsewhere too...
Re:It is Desktop ready... (Score:4, Informative)
But didn't you just say you used Ubuntu? Last I checked OpenOffice, FireFox and Evolution were installed by default....
Re:It is Desktop ready... (Score:5, Funny)
Fake mustache falls off...
Oh my God, it's Ballmer! Get him!!!!
Toy-ready (Score:3, Insightful)
It's the annoying little things, like the built-in cardreaders (the usb ones for desktops work fine, but I've rarely seen a laptop one work), some wireless chipsets (getting better... but despite having supposed kernel support I still haven't gotten my broadcomm chipset to work without ndiswrapper), hotkeys, and various other little things that don't quite work in linux.
On the other hand, there are lots of really cool things that only work in linux, or work better in linux, but those tend to be outside of the main area of interest for the general public.
That being said, I've seen vast improvement in the area of compatability with various hardware in 'nix. In the last few years I've seen more webcams, capture cards, and other of the 'fun but not essential' hardware come out with linux drivers that work (if not always work wonderfully)... and I'm hoping that such things will have more support in the future.
Re:It is Desktop ready... (Score:2)
IT's the fact that laptops are perfect examples of "cobbled together crap" there is on the planet. at least on a desktop PC you have decent chipsets and choices for video and sound. on a laptop you get the absolutely lowest quality crap the manufacturer specified. I have fought with laptop sound trying to find the right XP drivers many times and dont get me started on the other prephrials that are horrible in laptops.
Granted I use Dell and Compaq/HP... If I switched to a quality laptop maker my problems would probably drop.
Re:It is Desktop ready... (Score:2)
Consider: Linux has been regarded as technically superior to Windows for ages, it's being used and pushed by many of the largest corporations in the world, and it's surpassed the competition in usability (really, it has). It's being used extensively on servers, and it's share of the desktop and laptop market is growing. It's getting attention not only in the technical world, but also in the (non-technical) press. Most people who know anything about computers have heard of it. Some niche markets thrive on Linux.
In this day and age, ignoring Linux is a mistake. Putting Windows-only hardware in your laptops hurts your reputation, and may hurt your sales. It certainly hurts your users' freedoms. Fortunately, Windows-only hardware seems pretty much limited to Winmodems these days, and with the advent of broadband and WLAN I think these have become increasingly irrelevant. I know one person who uses a Winmodem.
The number one reason (AFAIK) that Linux doesn't work well on many laptops is broken ACPI implementations. Everything will work fine, but try to put the laptop to sleep and it will crash, either before or after actually going to sleep. I used to own a laptop that had the ACPI tables list the wrong IRQ for the USB controller, causing USB not to work. Linux contains a growing number of workarounds for these issues, but if you think about it, the reason it doesn't work is not that Linux doesn't contain a workaround, but that the hardware is faulty.
So what I would like to see is that vendors start certifying their hardware as Linux compatible, and displaying these certifications where people can see them. Right now, unless I can find compatibility information online, I have to buy hardware and send it back if it doesn't work. I want to be able to know before I try.
species classifcation change (Score:2, Funny)
I feel like pluto, according to Ubuntu, I'm no longer human...
My Take- (Score:3, Insightful)
I've tried virtually every distro out there (and some that don't exist any more) and what I've found is the only one that matches the ease of use of Windows and BeOS is.....
Linspire (also working as freespire)
Funny, from the man everyone loves to hate (and I admit, his bragging has been pretty outlandish) comes the only linux distro to get it right.
I used BeOS as my prime OS for several years, so I'm no stranger to command lines, bash shells and working with obscure items, but Linux, as a concept, has a long way to go.
Re:My Take- (Score:2)
Re:My Take- (Score:2)
su -
yum update
y
They look at you like your no better than Howard Scott Warshaw. tut.
Re:My Take- (Score:3, Informative)
I have a slackware CD I bought in 1995 with a book (Linux Configuration and Installation by Patrick Volkerding, Kevin Reichard, and Eric F. Johnson. ISBN 1-55828-426-5) that has Slackware 2.3.0. The book is the first edition, so it may very well be the first one on CD, but there may have even been earlier CDs.
what changed? (Score:4, Interesting)
when exactly was this quote taken? what is he talking about, am i missing something?
granted, i havent used Ubutuntu, but i used Red Hat, SuSE, and Fedora as a desktop for a few years, and all were very easy to install and use.
IMHO, linux has been ready for the desktop for years, but the world just isnt ready for linux.
Good enough. (Score:2)
Oh, and I do believe that the story is a dupe. I'm quite sure I saw this "This is the year of the Linux desktop" for the last 5 years or so. I'd like it to be true but I'm not convinced.
My Moms on Ubuntu (Score:3)
Honestly, for everyone but gamers, Linux meets their needs. For graphics developers, Macs meet their needs
Re:My Moms on Ubuntu (Score:2)
There is also a new wireless tool for Ubuntu just released. And tweaking for the printer can be a challenege but Ubuntu is perhaps the easiest printer management system I have seen. In my office here at work
Re:My Moms on Ubuntu (Score:2)
Too Bad? (Score:3, Insightful)
I would say, TOO GOOD that they didn't do it. I am sure that any user having the slightest curiosity of ditching windows will be overwhelmed after looking at more than 500 (or lets say 40 "main") linux distributions.
Or sure tell them how "tested and working" are those Windows applications under "Wine", so that when after they install their preffered linux distro and say, "okay now how do I install my 'tested and working' Winamp on Linux" their head will explode searching at zillions of forums/faqs/howtos/irc/etc.
The *only * way a WinApp-in-Wine would work is as google did it with picasa (i.e. the company will have to make something) or that a Linux company like Linsipre added such applications to their Click'n'Run service (of course they would have to buy licenses to each of the software they will sell). I like this idea a lot.
Re:Too Bad? (Score:2)
My wife installs windows apps all the time on her ubuntu box. Braindead easy and also give her more options. well behaved Windows apps work fine under crossover.
Yeah - I'll add it to the list. (Score:5, Funny)
2. I'm from the government, and I'm here to help you.
3. I won't cum in your mouth.
4. Linux is ready for the desktop.
An understandable mixup... (Score:3, Funny)
what's a good LIVE cd for old laptops? (Score:2)
ooh (Score:2)
The GIMP is a default (Score:2)
Last time I checked (which was Edgy Knot 2), The GIMP was still installed by default in Ubuntu.
Shame the artcle doesn't mention... (Score:3, Insightful)
No DRM
No Viruses
No Spyware
No Malware
It's cheaper
It's Free
I've been using Linux now for over 5 years and I honestly don't think I could go back to using Windows at home. The need for virus checkers, etc. just leaves me feeling paranoid. So what that I can't play many games on it, I have a PS2 for that...
Re:Shame the artcle doesn't mention... (Score:2)
Skeptical (Score:2)
I no longer care if Linux is "ready" (Score:5, Insightful)
On the first set of articles: Linux is already "ready" for the desktop. I use it on my desktop already, and it does everything I need it to do. It is for me a superior choice.
On the second set of articles, what they usually mean is that upon some event, there will be massive adoption of Linux on the desktop in rich, developed countries. "some event" varies and is typically purported to be 1) the coming of a new Windows version, such as Vista, which will be expensive and have high hardware requirements; 2) some big vendor preinstalling Linux, or 3) some big Windows security flaw, or 4) some other pain in the ass thing that MS is newly implementing, such as more DRM or copy restriction.
Well I've got news: it's highly unlikely we will ever see "widespread adoption" of Linux on desktops in rich developed countries. People in these countries can afford Windows, and switching is a big pain. Windows is crappy, but not crappy enough to switch away. It would be amazing if we even saw adoption rates that paralleled the adoption rates of Firefox in parts of Europe, but I think even that is unlikely. Note that I'm not saying anything about developing countries, where the dynamics--economic and political--may be quite different.
I'm tired of these articles because I don't understand why they're relevant. It's much more likely that we would see massive adoption of the Mac than of Linux. But we don't see articles crowing about that. Macheads are secure in their superiority complex; they don't see a need to sit around and predict when Mac world domination will happen. They don't worry that the Mac is irrelevant, no matter how small its market share is. Macheads are happy because their machines do what they want them to do. As a Linux user, I feel the same way. My machine does what I want it to do. My platform is not irrelevant--huge companies like Adobe, IBM, and Intel realize its importance even on the desktop. I do not care that roughly ninety percent of people use Windows, and I do not care about world domination.
Unfortunately it's often pro-Linux people (rather than just random press idiots) who promote this world domination crap. We need to realize that we've got a great platform, it works for us, and it's continuing to improve and work for even more people. The world domination and "ready for desktop" talk is tiresome and it just makes us look stupid.
Re:I no longer care if Linux is "ready" (Score:2)
That they aren't writing that anymore signifys a shift in the mainstream medias perception of Linux. Their understanding is still poor but that will come.
Think of this as free advertising for Linux to a market who it is interested in but doesn't normally reach. Interest in Linux drives usage and hence development of Linux and eventually more interest. It's a self reinforcing cycle and it's what will keep Adobe, IBM and Intel interested in working on Linux.
Re:I no longer care if Linux is "ready" (Score:3, Insightful)
Unfortunately, that's where you run into the great schism in Linux - those who use and promote it as a political agenda (GNU), and those who use it as good technology (Linux). Idealists vs pragmatists; you'll never win that one.
I'm Glad.. (Score:4, Funny)
Oh... again? (Score:2)
Each year, I will admit, it gets closer and closer due to the hard work and efforts of the Gnome and KDE teams, but it still has a way to go.
Actually, no OS is "ready for the desktop" ... (Score:3, Informative)
It's just that some OSes have landed there anyhow, because the telepathic, user-conforming, natural-language, all-seeing, all-knowing, vibrating-massage OS is not here yet.
OSes churn, because conventional wisdom shifts re: the "best" way to do certain tasks, because meme spreading makes some approaches to controlling bits on a screen seem more intuitive than others (people who first saw the GUI-based Apples in the early 80s can relate), because the advance of hardware makes it imperative to accomodate new devices or relative strengths of the various pieces that make up a personal computer, etc. OSes would probably look different if RAM cost one tenth (or ten times!) what it does now, or if optical drives were 10 times faster. A Live CD (or booting from flash) could be the "normal" / "obvious" way for computers to hold their OS.
There are flaws in Windows (crashes, user-interface failures and inconsistencies), and I don't much like the aesthetics of most Windows systems I've seen. I'm not expert enough (nor interested in spending the time to become expert enough) to get rid of some of the annoyances that even facially non-malicious Windows software likes to impose.
For instance: At the moment, I have an old laptop running Windows XP; I installed a newish, tiny Konika-Minolta laser printer's driver on it, but rather than simply now being able to print, I get two large pop-up messages about the printer's status every time I boot that laptop. I've gone through every menu option I can find to try to disable this annoyance (yeah, I know whether the printer's connected right now or 1000 miles away; thanks), no luck so far. Similarly, I know that my father's Windows machine starts up quite a few programs that he's not specifically asked for every time he boots it up; much Windows software is this way -- arrogant, presumptuous, intrusive -- and people just seem to put up with it, for the most part. By the way, your Virus Protection from McAfee is out of date, can we sell you more?
Linux-based systems aren't perfect, but
1) competition -- some people like to complain about the proliferation of distros, but
2) Tons of great free software. Debian users have had the longest sustained crowing in software history, perhaps, because of the thought that went into Debian package management. Nowadays, there's a surplus of good package managers and control systems, though, and the users of just about any Linux system can grab new free software (with a net connection) with greater ease than the conventional Windows approach of driver
Re:mainstream media? (Score:5, Funny)
It is the most powerful operating-system for Pee Cees. It looks not as metrosexually-oriented as Mac OS X by Steve "Rim" Jobs and has 1,0000,0000 times more softwares that the Linus-operating-system (I mean real software, not shareware like GUN).
Plus, it comes with every Pee Cee for free. People who have grown acusstomt to paying RatHat 699 $$$ or more can hardly beleive this when I consult them with my proffesional Internet- and Network-Service-Center-Bureau.
When I have a new customer, I take him to the back-room to show him the "alternative" to XP Home, which is Suse Linus 7.0.
I have set-up an old Pentium 133Hz and a small monochrome monitor to show the customer what Linux looks and feels like.
I have it set-up so it runs a fullscreen-Flash-splash-screen on the KDE-4-beta-desktop. It takes 13 min until the mouse cursor responds.
The customer will then make a sound like: "BAH!"
Then I tell them: "See, this is how it is if we let the communists make software."
Then we have a good laugh, wich is psycologically valuable for the customer-relationship.
I always tell them:
"Windows XP Home Edition is all you can do to embiggen the producationality of your human resourcers and empower to leverage the outcome-bottomlime of your stickholders
My customers usually are like: "OMG!"
You should really try it one day; it has a very nice light-reddish color theme to hit your tastes.
Thank you!
What I want to know is... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What I want to know is... (Score:2)
Each citizine and their Pee-Cees should welcome
DRM as their right to become digital and be managed
by the Artists wich are now digital too.
Re:What I want to know is... (Score:2)
Re:mainstream media? (Score:2)
Re:mainstream media? (Score:2)
It's funny, I don't remember hearing the word 'embiggen' until I started reading slashdot...
Re:mainstream media? (Score:3, Informative)
It's originally from an episode of the Simpsons. Wikipedia to the rescue! [wikipedia.org]
Re:mainstream media? (Score:2)
I'll have you know that embiggen is a perfectly cromulent word!
Re:mainstream media? (Score:2)
Re:mainstream media? (Score:2)
Re:Woohoo!!! (Score:2)
The year of Linux on my desktop was 2000.
Re:If Microsoft keeps charging $400 for its OS (Score:2)
People do still buy a lot of PC's without MS Office; so in my opinion OpenOffice has a better hope of becoming mainstream before Linux (esp. if the project can get more advertising to college students). Linux is still somewhat imtimidating for most users because it requires dealing with stuff like repartitioning before the install (yes, I'm aware there's workarounds, but nothing -- not even old projects like ZipSlack -- is well polished). With OpenOffice, it's simple enough for most people to install, and it doesn't have any significant risks of messing up their system.
Re:When I can play games (Score:4, Insightful)
I want to discuss most of your points... (but not in order):
1 - "Linux doesn't ghost very well". No, but it tars and dds well. Why are you trying to use a Windows tool which isn't needed?
2 - Windows XP does take 30 minutes to install. "a couple of drivers installs" -- I run XP SP2 in VMware. The last time I tried to install it on real hardware: I needed drivers for the IDE driver, the audio, the network and the video. None of which were included. Of course, the drivers were too big to put on a floppy, and XP refused to see the CDROM drive it just loaded from. Of course the network required a driver as well. Way to go! Fedora Core "just works" on this machine -- needing a driver for the video only.
3 - Play games... If you want to run Windows games, use Windows. End of story. No other explanation is needed.
4 - "funky graphics and sound card options and controllers working right out the box". This is bullshit. THEY DON'T WORK RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX WITH WINDOWS. You need to install drivers. Which are very dodgy at times. If anything, Linux has FAR more quality drivers than Windows "in the box". I still use QIC tapes: is there a Windows XP driver that is supported for those?
Re:When I can play games (Score:3, Informative)
Quake 4 and UT2004 worked "out of the box" on this 64-bit system.
Re:welcome to 2002 (Score:2)
XOver (Score:2)
CrossOver Office also runs games. I got Half Life 2 running on CrossOver 6.0 Beta 1 for OS.X. After not bothering with Wine and related products in general for over 3 years and it is safe to say they Wine team and their semi-proprietary spinoffs have made progress. Apart from some graphical glitches CrossOver is a lot more stable than I expected a beta product to be and quite fast. Since it is more mature than the OS.X version the Linux version of CrossOver should be superior, but for Linux, Cedega should be better yet since they are the game specialists. Unfortunately they do not seem to be planning to release an end user version of Cedega for OS.X. Instead they have gone with a portability engine named 'Cider' aimed at game manufacturers.
Re:right... (Score:2)
...which is entirely the fault of ATi, not Linux. Blame them for putting only one or two guys on the linux development team.