PS3 Problems Parried 177
Via Joystiq, an article on Gaming Horizon defending the PS3 from its detractors. The article looks at a number of the biggest concerns about the system (price, HD, rumble, blu-ray), and attempts to explain why most of these problems are nothing to worry about. From the article: "As Sony is a company that manufactures HD-TVs, it's in their interest to add that compatibility to give consumers another reason to upgrade. There's various numbers about how long it'll take for HD to 'replace' standard-feed televisions (just as broadband has all but eliminated dial-up), but it's conceivable that HD televisions will become affordable during the PS3's lifecycle, and for those of us that have been blessed by the high-def gods, it's another reason to take advantage of the highest-quality visual equipment available."
Parried? (Score:2)
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(Actually, it's a buck and a quarter quarter-staff, but what the hey!)
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So... (Score:4, Insightful)
But if you've been "blessed by the hi-def gods"... (Score:2)
Re:But if you've been "blessed by the hi-def gods" (Score:2)
We bought a CRT-32" Toshiba Cinema Series tv about 6 years ago. Cost was $1300.
We replaced it with a 40" Daytek LCD about 2 weeks ago. Cost was $1800. I could have gotten a 42" plasma (Hitachi, I think) for about $1500.
Include inflation, and I'm sure it's even closer.
And those are Canadian dollars. Divide by 1.2 to get your US dollar cost.
I don't think 42 inches is a "blessing"... (Score:2)
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Still, you're talking about nearly $2,000 for a PS3 and the screen to make it worthwhile. No, thanks.
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In Sweden, you can get a HD plasma or LCD for 10,000-15,000 kr, I bought a 32" CRT five years ago for 11,000 kr. In 1996, when I bought my first TV, a new 28" CRT cost 10,000 kr, but I was a poo
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Point taken, and then thrown in the wastebin because it's irrelevant.
The pricepoint for the TV models mentioned above is substantially above $0.00. If I don't have or don't want to spend that kind of money, then no amount of ra
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The cheapest 32" HD at the time was $400, and that had no tuner.
I don't worship at the altar of television, so I have no desire to spend $1,000+ on a TV.
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Sony may not make it quite the success with such a high start-off price, but if there are enough of the cash-laden pioneers (who get the arrows in the back) out there, then they may laugh more than Microsoft in the long run (albeit a kind of Mwah hah hah evil laugh).
The launch price is not as important as how easily they
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What are you smoking? The PS2 launch price of $300 was 'normal' by electronic standards. And Sony doesn't have a good record when it comes to cutting hardware prices. The PS2 is almost 6 years old now and it still hasn't hit the $100 mark (not counting Used or "Refurbished" ones.)
You seem to have to idealist view that Sony would su
Dial-up not quite "all but eliminated" (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Dial-up not quite "all but eliminated" (Score:4, Insightful)
Other than that, there is a real need for broadband, I mean a lot of people really feel the need broadband. But do people feel the need for HDTV? I don't think so, my point being that most people find the resolution of their TV to be good and just enough, actually many people don't see their screen good enough from where they usually watch it with the sight they have to be able to see a greater resolution than they do already.
In other words, according to me, HDTV == luxury. Not that nobody will pick it up when it becomes trully affordable tho, I just mean that nobody really feels the need for it.
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The plasmas are rather silly due to the halving in brightness every X months/years. The LCDs have massive problems with resampling - they are designed for one native resolution (Usually one of 576
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I know you can get reasonable HDTV LCDs, but they are fearsomely expensive (any of the models below about 1800 seem pretty rubbish at displaying bog standard PAL TV - i.e. what we will be using here for quite some time more in conjunction with new and expensive HD services/media).
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Brand new £1000+ TV (I only bought a new CRT set 3 years ago), £300 Sky HD box, plus mon
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This doesn't take into account those people for whom broadband isn't available, who are going the way of the dodo (especially with satellite broadband).
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Another place where the analogy breaks down...
"Just think how much faster I'll be able to play games and watch movies on my HDTV!"
Downloading 100 times faster than my 28.8 modem and having it only cost 10 bucks more a month than my dialup ISP + 2nd phone line was way more compelling in 1999 than shelling out thousands of dollars to get a two to threefold resolution improvement with HDTV+(Bluray/HDDVD) over what I have now. Ten bucks times twelve months times seven years doesn't add up to even a thousan
How many of those dial up customers... (Score:2)
isn't this irrelavent? (Score:5, Insightful)
$600 for the system, $50 or so for a game, and $2000 for an HDTV if you want to get the most out of the system. thats quite a bit, even for me, and i have a lot of disposable income. the pricetag will turn off a lot of gamers who have control of their own fincances and find that they are too tight to splurge that much cash on a new game system.
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I think $500 may be a barrier that people feel very uncomfortable going over without a good reason. And, as if that wasn't enough, factor in the $1,000+ barrier on an HDTV.
I was an early adopter on DVD in 1997. The players then started at $450 and a decent TV with s-video was about $500. But I just can't bring myself to be an early adopter when a decent-sized HDTV is going to run about $1500 *alone*. Nor will I choose bet
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Then all Sony need to do, is to make you want it. If they came out with an exclusive game you _really_ wanted, then that'd probably entice you to get a PS3.
If Sony came out with PS3 enhanced versions of ICO and Shadow of the Colossus, I know I'd be sorely tempted.
Comparison to 3DO (Score:2)
After getting home, I realized th
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As a result I have a full set of Game Boy
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That sounds great, except HDTVs start at less than $600 (Example [bestbuy.com]) and LCD HDTVs (27" and 32") can be had for under $1000.
Players per machine (Score:2)
No, they complain about the cost of four PCs. If you have one console, you can play a four-player game. For example, in Bomberman or WWE, where all players are in one playfield and a single window shows all of the players at once. Tetris is split, but the playfield's aspect ratio is such that splitting the screen does not bother the players. On the other hand, virtually all four-player games for PC require four PCs
Families with children (Score:2)
For families with children, yes. What will $600 buy you in a PC vs. what will $2400 buy you in consoles and accessories? And if you're talking bring your own computer, did you mean "bring your dad's computer"? I've never known of a play date where a minor was allowed to carry the family PC out of the house.
Even if you're obligated to b
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500,000 PS/3's will be enough. (Score:2, Interesting)
An HDTV isn't all you need to enjoy the PS3... (Score:2)
That's all well and good, but if that's the case, why do we need to buy the console now? Why not just wait until we can afford HDTVs as well? Surely the price will be lower on the PS3 itself by then.
I'm less worried about consumers taking the plunge. I'm more worried about game publishers worrying if consumers will take the plunge, and even with continued statement of Square's support of the console, it really still loo
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I'm pretty sure that Sony's press conference was enough to burn into even the minds of dead Roman centurions and wooly mammoths frozen in ice that RRRRIDGE RRRRACER!!! RRRRIDGE RRRRACER!!!! was going to be on the PS3.
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Here's a way to save even more money.
Don't get the Wii, get Zelda for the GameCube - enjoy exactly the same game - and wave a cucumber around from time to time.
Yeah. Killer launch dude. Real "Next-Gen". Yowza. Oh look! Pac Man for the Atari 2600!
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That would be because Nintendo is pushing it first and foremost along with (yet another - ooo that's innovation baby!) Mario game - which isn't slated for launch. So between the Nintendo hype machine talking up two (pounded into mulch) francheises - there's only one being hypertouted for launch. As far as the graphics and similarities, check out a Nintendo-centric site for yourself:
http://wii.ign.com/articles/707/707152p3.htm [ign.com]
The 3 Colbert's of Sony (Score:2)
On the plus side they do discourage people from stupidly buying the 360 like they did.
Blu-Ray is a non starter $600 is absurd, I don't care about inflation, they could choose their feature set and try and keep the price down, instead they decided to leverage their interests and build their tech base and launch at a price that doesn't appeal to consumers.
2 Models, Jus
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They already have caved [gamasutra.com]. SCEA's Kaz Hirai has said that "I don't think consumers expect software pricing to suddenly double. ... So, if it becomes a bit higher than $59, don't ding me, but, again, I don't expect it to be $100."
So, yeah, we're looking at $70-$100 games for the PS3.
Comparison Flawed (Score:5, Insightful)
The HD-DVD format doesn't bring many other new features to the table other than higher quality audio and video.
A more accurate comparison would push from VHS to SVHS (link [wikipedia.org]). The SVHS medium did not offer many new features other than an increase in quality.
If anything, that only proved that consumers do not see value in a simple increase in quality.
Off topic, but it needed to be said.
But they DO have features... (Score:2)
But when it comes to dial-up vs. broadband, I'm not so sure. Broadband is just like dial-up, only faster. I guess there's the "always-on" feature, but you could have that if you paid for an extra land line (which is frequently just as expensive as broadband).
Now, you might say: "But with broadband comes all these crazy features that you could never have s
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Broadband gives you more time. Higher speed means less time spent waiting. Always on means less time spent getting connected. When I first switched over to DSL lo these many years ago, I thought "Oh, it'll just be nice to not wait as long for stuff to load on the web." NO - it changed the way I use the Internet on a fundamental level. I used to look stuff in the yellowpages or call information - now I use the 'net. I used to have to go get a
Observation not QUITE accurate... (Score:2)
SVHS is nicer. No doubt about it. If it'd offered the quality jump that DVDs offered, it'd been
an easier sell and DVD would have had harder issues getting into the marketplace- IF the pricing
wasn't compelling along with the nifty new features like effectively full random access to the
movie, makings of, etc. that they throw into the DVDs these days when they come out.
It's all about what do you get for th
Point - Counterpoint II (Score:5, Insightful)
Well I guess that depends where you live.
Spin, hype, hate, and fanboy adoration are quite typical in this business
True, but how often do you see such a large percentage of previous fanboys switch to being haters before the product even launches?
Decided to stop there because the rest of the article is very contradictory and they "point - counterpoint" themselves without my help. Example:
When defending the PS3 price they say well its got extra stuff like HDMI.
When defending why the base system won't support HDMI they say because people don't really need it.
Summarizing there a bit but thats how the rest of the article comes off.
Parry (Score:2)
PS3 = Daigo [youtube.com]
Old Manager's Maxim (Score:2)
"Affordable" is not enough (Score:3, Insightful)
I won't dispute this statement, but it's not enough. Just because an HDTV is affordable doesn't mean that a person is going to buy it. If a person needs to buy a new TV in 1-2 years, he will probably find that HDTV's are affordable. But very few people find themselves in this situation. Even when all OTA signals are DTV, he'll probably buy a converter box instead of a new TV. With the exception of my first TV, all of my home electronic purchases have been upgrades, and I only bought them because I had the extra cash. Very few people will ditch their regular TV just for a PS3.
Counter-counter-point (Score:5, Interesting)
*Note, I'm not a Nintendo Fanboy, but I do have a bias towards the Wii*
Dude 1: Look at your game shelf, odds are you have 10-12 mediocre games there which total up to as much a PS3. Which would you rather have?
Me: A bit of misdirection since it doesn't factor in the extra 10-12 mediocre titles I'm eventually gonna end up with for the PS3
Dude 2: The 360 is only $400, but the PS3 is better with stuff like WiFi plus it's cheaper than any other BluRay player and then there's the cost of Xbox Live.
Me: I'll partly concede. The PS3 is a cheap BluRay drive, but I'm not sure I want a BR drive. I also don't feel that the PS3 will provide a $200 better gaming experience.
Dude 3: Consumer Electronics are getting more expensive, people are used to paying more for advanced technology such as the latest HiDef video camera.
Me: Ya, but that doesn't excuse Sony from having to justify costing more than its two competitors.
Me: This point and resulting counterpoints are lame, I'm skipping it.
Me: Another semi-lame point. It is true that High Def is not an important feature for many people without the sets for it. I also believe that gameplay is always better than graphics. But I do not think that it is bad to start pushing HD on consoles. I think that HD saturation will become more common as the console's lifetime progresses. It's not like Regular Def TVs are left out (Unless you want to read the text in Dead Rising).
Them: Not really in their control due to patent issues, tilt sensing is a shameless Wii rip off but it could be half decent, and Force Feedback is gimmicky anyways.
Me: I see them both as minor features, I don't think this is a huge issue. That said, the Wii gets movement sensing AND rumble.
Them: Console launches have never had 'enough' units. Plus, it's the units shipped by end of year that really matters. Also, supply shortages have been over dramatized before to create demand
Me: Fair point. Although I fo think that Sony might face a problem if supply is too short and people go in to pick up a Christmas present and end up walking out with a shiny new Wii since the 5 PS3's the store recieved have already been sold.
Them: People said this about the PS2 and DVDs
Me: I'm not getting into a HD-DVD vs BluRay vs Good Old DVD debate.
Dude 1: They said this about the PS2 Emotion Engine. Game developers should get used to the Cell and later PS3 games should look really good.
Me: Well, duh, they're going to get better at it if they use it a lot, but I don't see that doesn't mean its a good architecture.
Dude 2: Launch titles are gonna suck anyways, they'll get better at it, and programmers are whiny.
No comment
Dude 3: Off the record, I have heard of problems from developers. However, a hard architecture means great exclusives, buggy ports.
Me: Great exclusives are always nice, but I don't see Madden 0X running with less bugs on the XBox as a PS3 bonus.
Dude 4: On the flip side the XBox development kit could be to simple or "ametuer" plus the guys working on Full Auto 2 really like
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Me: Ya, but that doesn't excuse Sony from having to justify costing more than its two competitors."
Forget "Ya". I would want proof of this. As far as *I* can tell, everywhere I look either prices are dropping, or they remain the same while functionality increases.
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Same here, though my brother has been known to complain that my bias is reaching fanboy proportions.
Ok. I feel like I just wasted a lot of time subjecting my opinions on anyone who reads this. However, I did want to refute some of their bad counterpoints.
The entire article was full of lame points that needed refuteing; not only that, but they contradicted themselfs more than once. It needed refuting, and I'm glad somone else did, so
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Agreed, and furthermore I worry that cheap-as-in-price may also turn out to mean cheap-as-in-quality. Assuming I DID want a BR drive, I'd rather pay $X for one that's likely to keep working forever than to pay $X/2 for one of dubious reliability.
Them: Not really in their control due to patent issues
It has always been in Sony's control. If they really wanted to keep controller rumble, they would have paid for a license of the patent or fou
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That one was interesting to me because on one hand, I don't think the Xbox 360 was helped by it's shortages, but the PS2 wasn't hurt either. Now you could argue that the PS2 didn't launch with another system launching the same season - but I do recall Sega's ads to
The NeoGeo 2 (Score:3, Interesting)
I have a feeling the PS3 is going to be remembered as the NeoGeo of the current generation consoles. I remember when I was a teenager drooling over the Neogeo, I wanted one sooo bad but it was too expensive for my parents to be willing to buy it and all my attempts to save enough ended up in me spending it on something that I found I wanted more. Moms and Dads at christmas with more money than sense will buy junior a ps3 but I will bet the majority will be looking hard at the Wii. Regardless of your view of nintendo their price point is going to make it hard for parents shopping for a new console to reason the cost of the PS3 and probably even the Xbox 360.
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fanboy responses (Score:3, Insightful)
"Much as the inclusion of the DVD format may have pushed many gamers over the edge to purchase the PS2 ("Hey mom, it can play movies too!"), if Blu-Ray ends up edging-out the HD-DVD format, it's another quality that'll make the system more versatile, which is never a bad thing."
Comparing the DVD/PS2 upgrade to BlueRay/PS3 is completely different. DVD was a proven technology, provided MANY immediate consumer benefits (no rewinding, much higher resolution, much better sound, no media degridation, smaller format), and had no competing technology.
Sony really should of delayed BluRay, only around 10-20% of US households have a HDTV and even less care about HD gaming. With the advent of DVRs and media streaming just around the corner, I wouldn't be surprised if both HDDVD and BlueRay never take off. Media streaming provides the next immediate consumer benefit (no media to physically move around).
Sony putting BluRay in the PS3 will probably turn out to be the worst decision ever made in the companies history.
Of course... (Score:2)
Consumer electronics are getting more expensive? (Score:3, Interesting)
The bottom line (Score:2)
*I* certainly won't buy one at launch prices, but I know that plenty of other people will, and eventually the price will drop to where I can afford it.
Problems (Score:2)
2. It's 600$ alone, and it requires expensive games, accessories (they're expe
Just the passage quoted is pretty bad (Score:2)
This ignores whether or not consumers want to upgrade. Trying to charge consumers more in an effort to get them to upgrade is putting the cart before the horse.
"There's various numbers about how long it'll take for HD to 'replace' standard-feed televisions (just as broadband has all but eliminated dial-up),"
Bad metaphor. Broadband had a killer app, and its name was
PS3 and 360 will both be poor at HD movies (Score:2)
I've got an Xbox 360. Due to the cooling required it is far too loud to be seriously considered as a movie player. It's bad enough when playing games.
Obviously the PS3 isn't yet available, so we can't yet judge how noisy it will be. However, given the power requirements, it's unlikely to be any better than the 360.
Also (and
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I mean, come on, they throw questions like:
Where's the innovation? Xbox and Nintendo are trying new things and the PS3 seems like "Just another PlayStation."
[BURNS VOICE]A tough question, but a fair one[/BURNS VOICE]
come on, not even the most slackjawed drooling Xbox360 fanboi thinks that the PS3 is "just another playstation". It has impressive hardware in there -- that's one of the major points of attack for its critics. Why claim otherwise?
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Power doesn't have anything to do with it. It's just an evolution of the same console they've been selling for more than 10 years. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But you can't argue it's not true.
Microsoft, on the other hand, is at least trying something somewh
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Faster Hardware != Innovation (Score:2)
Uhm... You're missing the point. The "impressive hardware" is precisely why it's "just another playstation." The PS2's claim to fame was the same (emotion engine or whatever). Faster hardware is not innovation. Faster hardware is evolution.
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I CALL BS. (Score:5, Insightful)
I read this, and I said, "WHA?! He wants it to cost MORE?!" The emphasis here should be placed on several hundred dollars, of which the PS3 is not. It is not several. It is a BUNDLE of hundred dollars. It is a multitude, or a plethora of hundreds of dollars, spent on a single item that demands other hundreds of dollars to be spent on upgrading the rest of one's entertainment system, to make the whole ordeal worthwhile. A video camera doesn't demand you upgrade your television, and upgrading your entertainment system usually gets you a whole lot more than a PS3.
Excuse me? I'm not a gamer because I don't happen to have 600 dollars lying around that I can throw at a game system when it launches? I'm not a gamer because I'm a college student, or perhaps I'm on a tight income? This disgusts me. It's a slap in the face.
Again, a sort of slap in the face, implying that anyone who liked the rumble feature is stupid. Also, way to sidestep the fact that the Wii gets you the response to direct actions on TOP of vibration. Must... resist... urge... to strangle... Sony fanboy...
Question sidestepped, and point completely missed. Every PS3 sold is a PS3 Sony hasn't made money on. If there's a shortage on launch day, Sony is not, somehow, making imaginary money on these systems not sold. The fact that the Wii will be releasing at the same time or earlier makes the whole thing even more dangerous. If someone can't get a PS3, what's to stop them from buying an 360 AND a Wii instead? Launch is vital. Plus, if Sony can't get their act together for launch, what's to say they can pull off their projected end of the year quotes anyway?
Really now? That's one I've never heard. DVD did well because of the PS2. If that's not the most fanboyish thing I've ever heard... next they'll be telling me that the PS2 contributed to the polio vaccine. DVDs succeeded because they were better than VHSes. They are more compact, last longer, easier to use (does anyone even remember having to rewind VHS tapes anymore?), cheaper... not because they happened to be compatible with the PS2.
HOW INTERESTING! All Launch games suck? So, Super Mario 64 sucked? You're going to tell me that Legend of Zelda:
Re:A Big Thank You To All The "A 600 Dollar System (Score:3, Informative)
Biggest deal is the price anyway... (Score:2)
HD isn't that special- yet.
So far, HD-DVD and Blu-Ray's showing up to be another VHS vs. Betamax war. You all know how that ended up.
(And we won't go into what lackluster offerings we're seeing from the media companies in those formats...)
Just because the DVD player in the console worked for Sony and Microsoft at the beginnings means little;
the price point was justified and it sold quite a few units because it was cheaper to buy the console
than to g
Re:A Big Thank You To All The "A 600 Dollar System (Score:4, Funny)
Gosh, $499 is such a bargain compared to $599, you've completely changed my mind about buying a PS3.
Re:A Big Thank You To All The "A 600 Dollar System (Score:4, Informative)
You obviously missed it, but with 80% of produced PS3s being the $600 version, most people buying a PS3 will be spending at least $600, simply because the vast majority of PS3s available will cost $600. So, yes, saying the PS3 costs $600 is basically true.
Yep, for an extra $100, you can upgrade your $500 PS3 into a $600 PS3 minus the HDMI port! What a bargin!
No, really. Assume that a wireless adapter costs $20 and that most USB wireless adapters will work with the PS3. (As TiVo Series 2 owners know, fat chance on that happening.) Assume you get a card reader that costs $20. That leaves us with $60 for the hard drive, which is about the cheapest you can expect to spend.
The only reason to stick with the $500 version is if you don't need wireless, don't need the card reader, and don't need the HDMI port. Don't forget that if you want to grab your save games and head over to a friend's house, you'll need a card reader. Upgrading individual components is barely worth the money saved, epecially with PS3 games expected to cost $60-$100.
USB Mass Storage (Score:2)
Unless you already own a USB storage device such as a thumbdrive, hard drive, or iPod music player, which AFAIK the PS3 Core System is be compatible with. Or unless you already own a card reader, as is the case for a lot of photographers and people who play homebrew on a Nintendo or GPH handheld system. In fact, many popular digital cameras have a USB Mass Storage card reader built in. And I
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Oh yeah, let's ignore those annoying facts where Sony announced the 80/20 split [gameinformer.com]. Unless you have actual proof that Sony never announced this, of course.
You're right, that is wrong. It should be $70-$100.
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Actually I haven't bought an XBox either.... I'm probably not going to. There is a difference between tactics though. Microsoft is fairly in-your-face in their tactics... the sony DRM rootkit was about as sneaky and underhanded as it gets. One company dares you to defy them (and hence, has some balls) and the other sneaks poison into your box... I'm far from an MS fanboy, but I've got more respect for them than sony atm.
If only Nintendo wasn't such a joke...
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