MythTV Compared with Windows Media Center

legoburner writes "Tom's Hardware has a nice comparison of MythTV and Windows Media Center Edition, and it seems that they preferred MythTV by quite a margin: 'Enter MythTV, a grand unification of personal digital video recording and home theatre technology, and a magnum opus of modular design, freedom of expression and personal entertainment.'"

Re:TV

[MindStalker]

You're saying this on slashdot? The ultimate waste of time ever invented. (well aside from fark and the other waste of time).

Re:MythTV could be great.

[Anonymous Coward]

until you can just put in a disk, answer a few yes or no questions and then start using it.

Something like Knoppmyth? http://www.mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html [mysettopbox.tv]

Re:TV

[Anonymous Coward]

Fucking stupid.

Do you know why we own Tivos and why MythTV is useful? So we can go outside and do things and then watch TV on our downtime. But you missed the whole point there. Besides, I'm sure you NEVER relax and sit on your ass, right? And even if you did, I'd bet you sure wouldn't let yourself enjoy it.

Bad title!

[CaymanIslandCarpedie]

1) Its an article about MythTV which doesn't even really mention MS Media Center except in one small table at the very end
2) The table mentioned above compares Myth against MCE 2004 not MCE 2005 which has been out forever, MCE 2005 R2 which has been out for some time, or Vista which is almost here.

Article in a nutshell

[Anonymous Coward]

Features in MythTV that are not in Windows MCE 2004:
- Open Source; free to obtain, use, and modify
- Software and hardware decoding support
- Output to DivX and MPEG2
- Runs on Linux and MacOS, feeds to Windows (Windows MCE runs on -- guess what -- Windows only!)
- Ultra-low system requirements
- Support for companion and third-party plug-ins
- Scalable network architecture (master/slaves) (MCE has only basic TCP/IP support)
- Record once, transcode and play anywhere (in MCE you can only record and play using the same device)

Features in Windows MCE not in MythTV:
- Simple setup and configuration

Guess which one will have the biggest market share?

Re:what would be really nice

[York the Mysterious]

It's called KnoppMyth

http://www.mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html [mysettopbox.tv]

Re:MythTV could be great.

[York the Mysterious]

ivtv is evil to get working on your box. As is lirc and the other 7000 packages you need for a good MythTV box. I tried building a box based on Ubuntu and gave up a few days later. Get KnoppMyth. It automates the entire process. http://www.mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html [mysettopbox.tv]

Detailed Comparison Chart

[rs232]

"Its an article about MythTV which doesn't even really mention MS Media Center except in one small table at the very end"

Actually its titled a Detailed Comparison Chart.

"The table mentioned above compares Myth against MCE 2004 .. MCE 2005 .. MCE 2005 R2 .. Vista .."

What information presented in the chart doesn't apply to MCE 2005/R2/Vista.

Proprietary; pay to obtain and use but not modify, Proprietary codec cannot be changed, No software decoding support for 2004, No support for DivX or MPEG2, Simple setup and configuration, Runs on Windows only, Modest system requirements, No plug-in support, Basic TCP/IP network support (single unit), Record and play locally only.

was Re:Bad title!

Re:Commercial usage?

[York the Mysterious]

There are a few companies out there offering solutions on a small scale. Not the best deal, but if you want support you pay for support. https://monolithmc.com/catalog.php [monolithmc.com] http://mythic.tv/product_info.php?cPath=21_29&prod ucts_id=44&osCsid=1adfce851bdfddf0bd199eded2ddf5eb [mythic.tv] Personally I'd just build my own on KnoppMyth and be done with it, but whatever floats your boat.

Re:MythTV could be great.

[AusIV]

Interesting. I was pretty much a Linux noob going into the setup of my PVR, and I had no trouble setting up MythTV, with the exception of LIRC, and then only because I thought it would be fun to build my own IR receiver. I made sure I was buying a compatible tuner, and with Ubuntu setup was a breeze. After a while I decided to upgrade to a version not supported by Ubuntu, and it only took about 30 minutes, most of which was compile time. The instructions were simple and easy to follow.

It may be more trouble than most non-technical users want to go through, but I'm suprised to hear an experienced Linux user had trouble installing MythTV.

Building a MythTV system isn't hard. Really.

[Yeechang Lee]

First, please see http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=193371&cid=158 64227 [slashdot.org]a prior Slashdot comment for my detailed writeup of what a totally state-of-the-art MythTV high-definition system is capable of. I've had this system up and running since early January 2006, and its power and features still so far exceed any available commercial application it's not funny.

The funny thing is that I heard so many stories about how MythTV is the ne plus ultra of difficult installations that I actually put off getting started for some time after assembling the necessary parts. Some common MythTV installation mistakes:

MISTAKE: Not trying to build one because everyone knows MythTV installation makes grown men weep.
SOLUTION: It might do so . . . For those who've never installed Linux before. Yes, having some experience with Linux, or the willingness to learn along the way with learning MythTV internals, is essential.

MISTAKE: Not trying to build one because MythTV only runs on custom-built, homemade systems and I don't know how to build one.
SOLUTION: I'm two thumbs when it comes to hardware; even my earlier 2.8TB RAID 5 array [google.com] (which I'm not using for MythTV storage, but will at some point) was more a software project than a hardware one. For MythTV, as I mention in my message above, I simply bought a stock 3.0GHz Pentium 4 Sony Vaio system. It did have the advantages of a) being pretty darn quiet and b) being black with flip-down covers covering the drive bay (a family member who visited recently didn't even recognize the case as belonging to a PC until I pointed it out), but these were simply superficial bonuses. There's no need to have to handcraft a SFF system in a "media PC" case unless one really wants to.

MISTAKE: Trying to build a high-definition system on the cheap.
SOLUTION: Anyone who does not feel confident about his technical skills and doesn't need high defintion ought to buy a TiVo. Seriously. Don't think that a MythTV system will somehow save you money, because it probably won't and probably won't look as nice sitting under the TV set. For those who moan and groan about the monthly TiVo fee [slashdot.org], I'll bet they're also the ones who moan and groan [slashdot.org] about paying $15 a month for World of Warcraft despite it being a far, far, far better value per dollar than any movie, DVD, or other videogame purchase. Get out of living in mom's basement, loser!

That said, anyone who wants to build a high definition-capable system needs to look at MythTV hard because, as mentioned, it can do things no commercial system can do. However, high definition takes horsepower. Lots of horsepower. The mythtv-users list sees a constant influx of new people who think that they can get away with assembling a HD-capable system with the spare parts sitting in their closets. They fail, then go away whining about how "MythTV is hard."

Here's what one needs:

* 3.0GHz Pentium 4 or better. Don't try to use a less-powerful system and then rely on XvMC [mythtv.org] to fill the gap.
* Nvidia FX 5200 or better. No, don't try ATI. No, don't try a MX400.
* Lots of storage space. Each high-definition recording stream takes 5-8GB per hour [slashdot.org]. I can record three such at once. Do the math.
* A standalone PC. The best way, by far, to install MythTV is to follow Jarod Wilson's justly-famous installation guide [wilsonet.com], which uses Fedora Core. Don't try to press in a system already being used for something else to the task (at least not as a frontend); it's not worth the hassle.

BOTTOM LINE: Anyone with some prior Linux i

Re:what would be really nice

[stefanlasiewski]

What would be really cool is if some company pulled a Red Hat, or Suse, etc., with MythTV whereby they offer their "version" of a MythTV distribution bundled with hardware and all

There are a couple of small vendors who do this already. The systems all seem to be priced to compete with the various Commercial PVR-type systems -- $600-1200.

While searching for Ubuntu & MythTV, I ran into https://monolithmc.com/ [monolithmc.com], who I ships a computer preloaded with MythTV & Ubuntu.

Re:what would be really nice

[York the Mysterious]

A) It's really not based on Knoppix. Cecil (the maintainer) uses the Knoppix scripts a bit for hardware detection, but the whole thing is custom. It's Knoppix in name only as he says. It's really just a custom Debian Sid distro. B)The next major stable release of Knoppmyth is going to be based on Ubuntu so that it will have better hardware support and be easier to maintain.

Re:Tivo still wins on user interface

[mkraft]

Actually the grandparent is correct. The TiVo can transfer any MPEG2 encoded video file from a PC running the TiVo Desktop software (or Galleon). The video file can be viewed while it is transferring. It works very well. The downside is that since TiVo only supports MPEG2, the file sizes are quite large and the transfer time can take a while. The TiVo S3, which is supposed to be released in about a week can play MPG4 formatted videos, but it hasn't been confirmed whether it will support the PC to TiVo video transfer feature.

Re:what would be really nice

[GooberToo]

Both you and the grandparent posts are wrong. The applications have simply not been polished because they don't have to be. There is a world of difference between an application developed for resale and an application developed for ones own use. The first is polished while the second is rough around the edges. This has zero to do with "Linux mentality". It has everything to do with the fact that these people are not paid to develop an application for end users; let alone get paid.

If it's difficult to use, don't use it. If, on the other hand, you insist on using it, all the while crying like a baby, get off your lazy ass and polish it your self. There really is no in between here. Either stop complaining and fix it, or don't use it. Which solution will you pick?

Since you're already complaining and ignorantly calling this "Linux mentality", I can only assume you have no intension of fixing the issue. Tell me something, do you flip people off and call them names when you get a birdthday card with less than $100 cash in it too? ;) Obviously, that's a joke, but it's the same mentality that you're presenting here. Notice how someone that would do such a thing comes off looking like a real jack ass? It applies here too.

If you want to talk about someone's mentality, perhaps you should start a little closer to home first.

A few options...

[Zanthrox]

Every now and then I see CompUSA have specials for $200 PCs. My parents just picked one up to replicate my myth HD setup. That's cheaper then I can piece together. On the off-chance that the video included doesn't support XVMC, a PCI XVMC card can be had for as little as $50.

For capturing..Myth does have support for firewire input from the cable box. You're kinda dedicating your cable box to myth that way, but it does seem to work okay..just not for the scrambled stuff. What you can get through firewire seems to vary by region. Check out the AVS forums -- they have info on what's available for most (larger) areas.

If you don't want to dedciate a cable box to myth, there are a couple linux-friendly cards for ~$100. I picked up an Air2PC card for that, as it's supported under both linux and windows.

For a remote, I might suggest the ATI Remote Wonder 2. It's an RF remote with lots of buttons -- nice for myth. Should be available for $40.

So...a HD PVR is quite doable for ~$500 if you're willing to wait for the right sales to come around.

Re:what would be really nice

[Ryan Amos]

Sorry, KnoppMyth is nice, but it still doesn't fix the "support" problem. Will your neighbor know how to open an X terminal / SSH session and repair a MySQL database when it is corrupted (this happens a lot with Myth)? Will he know how to properly partition a hard drive? Will he know how to get LibDVDCSS to play commercial DVDs? What about when his Zap2It listing subscription runs out?

As nice as KnoppMyth is for a sysadmin type (I use it and love it) it is still decidedly not for the general public. Some knowledge of linux administration is still required to maintain the damn thing, whereas most end users have a rudimentary knowledge of Windows and can fix small things when they break.

Re:what would be really nice

[dthree]

There is even a pre-built [mythic.tv] KnoppMyth system you can buy.

Re:what would be really nice

[makomk]

One of MythTV's Summer of Code projects [mythtv.org] was more automated configuration of MythTV - I'm not sure how successful it was, though. (The branch used for development looks a bit sparse in terms of changes...)