Nanocosmetics Used Since Ancient Egypt 252
Roland Piquepaille writes "French researchers have found that Egyptians, Greek and Romans were using nanotechnology to dye their hair several thousands years ago. Nanowerk Spotlight reports they were using lead compounds which generated lead sulfide (PbS) nanocrystals with a diameter of only 5 nanometers. At a moment where many people wonder if the use of nanoparticles is safe, it's good to know that nanotechnology has been widely used for a very long time."
Using "nanotechnology" to dye your hair... (Score:5, Insightful)
And aside from that, I'd hardly call this "nanotechnology" just because a hair dye process deemed effective by ancient Egyptians coincidentally happened to generate particle small enough to meet the definition of "nanoparticle".
Additionally, this is yet another questionable Roland Piquepaille submission.
Re:Using "nanotechnology" to dye your hair... (Score:5)
Regardless, if they were using lead based cosmetics they're not exactly a model to emulate.
Re:Using "nanotechnology" to dye your hair... (Score:5, Funny)
Lead poisoning occurs regardless of the size of the lead particles.
It seems the article poster has a reputation, based on the grandparent comment. If they can try to spin lead poisoning as proof that nano-tech is safe and keep a straight face, they must have spent part of their career working for the tobacco industry.
FFS it's a BLOG about vampires and BS (Score:2)
FFS, is /. so desperate for articles that it's now a means for someone's BLOG to build traffic?
Rob, this is really sinking to a new low for content... :(
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Using "nanotechnology" to dye your hair... (Score:4, Informative)
He routinely submits stuff that is way out of date, common knowledge, or almost entirely irrelevant (like this), and it routinely gets accepted. There have been accusations of all sorts of stuff, primarily that Roland and the editors (a few in particular) have some sort of agreement, and what Roland gets out of it is the standard perks of having his site routinely linked off of the main page of
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
There was a nanotech window treatment that made a bunch of people sick. Smoke from most any source is a bad nanoparticle, etc.
Re:Using "nanotechnology" to dye your hair... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Whew, I didn't realize were so intrinsically advanced!
Or, it could be a complete misunderstanding of the word "use" by a slashdot editor to contrive to make an otherwise boring story interesting. Hm.
It's a friggin *lead* compound... (Score:5, Insightful)
In general, any "nanotechnology" that isn't encapsulated will have this problem; a very large specific surface area can make things hazardous even if the substance is otherwise chemically inert.
And I'll second parent's assertion that it's not actually nanotechnology; it's friggin' chemistry. When you can program it, or it can reproduce, *then* you can call it genuine nanotech; not before.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Thank you for saying that. Seriously, eveyone considering writing the word "nanotechnology" should have to say that phrase, or one very like it, ten times before they proceed.
No, you can't have our facny sci-fi word to make chemistry sexy. You'll have to do that on your own.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Don't you know? History has been rewritten. Anything small is now nanotechnological!
Those of us who remember that nanotechnology originally meant the technology to position individual atoms are pretty irrelevant now, I'm afraid.
Re:Using "nanotechnology" to dye your hair... (Score:4, Insightful)
Taking safety cues from an era where we have evidence that the average life span was about 30 years isn't giving me any additional confidence in nanotechnology, and worries me somewhat that someone would even suggest this over modern scientific method. Not to forget that we don't have nearly enough information about the ancients to satisfy any scientific enquiry into nanotechnology. What we know so far about the ancients isn't indicative of life-longevity.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Using "nanotechnology" to dye your hair... (Score:5, Funny)
Actually, I've been tagging them "pigpile". But I'll add "roland" as well. Thanks!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
But this "pigpile" tag... what could it mean? I was intrigued. I admit it! And now here I am, only to discover that yet another Slashdotter has become besotted with cleverness and witicized himself to inscrutability.
Avast! =D
Not exactly a ringing endorsement... (Score:4, Insightful)
Well...humans have done other things for a long time that were none too healthy. A few examples:
So just because people used to do something for a long time doesn't necessarily make it harmless.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
It's a lot worse than that - every single ancient Egyptian who used this technology has died. With a survival rate of 0% it's no wonder the stuff never caught on.
Re: (Score:2)
Next thing you know Trip, we will find out that posting often to slashdot is none too healty...
Re:Not exactly a ringing endorsement... (Score:4, Insightful)
But smoking isn't actually ALL that bad for you if you don't do it like a chimney, and especially if you're not smoking things that have had carcinogens fucking added to them. Excuse me, no, I don't need any arsenic added to my tobacco. Besides, there's things to smoke other than tobacco :P
Pewter, okay, bad idea :)
But asbestos is still used as insulation! Just not in buildings. And it's still used to make brake pads. The idea was not a bad one, but the way it was implemented was terrible.
Re: (Score:2)
Um, no, I don't believe that's the case. Unless I'm very mistaken, asbestos hasn't been used in brake pads for many years, It's been replaced by other compounds.
I don't know of any other current uses of asbestos, either. Do you have any links?
Re:Not exactly a ringing endorsement... (Score:4, Informative)
You are mistaken. It's just been outlawed in most first-world countries. It's still used in other places. It's also used in gaskets; I've seen gaskets with asbestos content personally. Anyway, you haven't looked very hard if you can't find current uses of Asbestos: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestos [wikipedia.org] has a whole section.
Re: (Score:2)
The Wikipedia article is similarly unspecific; it lists brake shoes, sheetrock taping, stuccos and plasters, vinyl tiles, roofing felts, acoustical ceilings, and much more as uses of asbestos, but I'm sure that none of these ar
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Luckily, I always use the semi-metallic pads on my car, both in the front and rear. But I'll be sure to be careful when working on other cars' brakes. They really should ban that stuff for brake pads: semi-metallic pads (which the article says does not contain asbestos) have been cheaply and readily available for ages both in factory pads and in aftermarket replacements. There's no reason for anyone to use asbestos any more, ex
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Exactly how does one smoke and not resemble a chimney. I suppose you could close the flue, but that resembles a chimney fire.
Soot is carcinogenic whether or not there are additives in it. If that capital ALL makes you feel more safe smoking, that's simply your brain justifying the risk. My lungs don't accept your justification, and neither does logic.
Smoking... (Score:2)
Smoking is so 1700s.
Re: (Score:2)
Like, using lead compounds to dye their hair.... I highly doubt that they didn't suffer from lead poisoning. The implication that it has been "safe" for a "very long time" is ridiculous.
Also, talking on mobile phones. (Score:3, Funny)
Pewter ... not exactly (Score:3, Informative)
Pewter is not inherently a problem since it is primarily tin with a bit of copper, with possibly some other non-toxic metals. You can still get pewter drinking vessels and utensiles, which are safe to use.
The problem is that some pewter contains lead to add color and change the hardness. This is especially true of older pewter. This pewter is not safe.
Modern pewter is generally not a problem.
Re: (Score:2)
http://www.pewtergallery.com/about.html [pewtergallery.com] newer pewter vessels are lead free (Britania Pewter).
A little more research brought this page up
http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/xmas98/phan/ph an.html [mja.com.au]
It seems theres a danger from certain glazes used on pots and Lead Crystal is also a dodgy thing to use.
it seems storing your whiskey in a lead crystal decanter may also be bad for your health.
not something i had taken note of before so thanks fo
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Roland Piquepaille article (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Roland Piquepaille article (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
my apologies to <[SA]HatfulOfHollow> [bash.org]
Oblig TCP/IP injury quote. (Score:2)
I am now convinced about Roland Piquepaille (Score:5, Funny)
Well, now, this takes the cake. Egyptians using nanoparticles? This is news?
Ahem, In Other News
When Gandhi incited civil disobedience against British rule by picking up a pinch of salt from the sea, those sodium chloride particles were less than one nanometre across![2] OMG! The Indians used nanotechnology to overthrow the British!!! WTF! Is this a harbinger of the war-like uses of nanotechnology??? BBQ!!!1!!11!one!1!
Can we have a topic devoted to Roland Piquepaille so that we can adjust our viewing preferences in accordance with the amount of adoration we feel for this Submitter of Many Slashdot Articles?
-----
Footnotes:
[1]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?cid=14501811&sid=
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?cid=14436063&sid=
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?cid=14049437&sid=
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?cid=13236725&sid=
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?cid=13188470&sid=
[2] (Yeah, I know the actual particles of salt he held were more than 1nm across, but then it dissolved into the sweat from his fingertips, and the salt regrouped into nanoparticles that spread out in a thin layer across his fingertips.)
MOD PARENT WAY UP (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Googling "Roland Piquepaille" gives some pretty cool links to fun insights. The article itself is quite interesting (albeit short), AND without the typical 12-page ad clickthroughs...
So you disagree with some of P.'s ideas? Well, who gives a fun as long as his submissions are good! What am I missing here?
Safety (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
So, yeah, this anecdote is comepltely supportive of modern nanoparticle technology...
Re: (Score:2)
safe? how about the long term? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Can you cite a source? Particularly on the 'successful' part?
Re:safe? how about the long term? (Score:4, Informative)
Africa showed evidence of brain surgery as early as 3,000 B.C. in papyrus writings found in Egypt. "Brain," the actual word itself, is used here for the first time in any language. Egyptian knowledge of anatomy may have been rudimentary, but the ancient civilization did contribute important notations on the nervous system.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
"The Edwin Smith papyrus is the oldest known surgical text, dating back to the 1600s BC, although it contains inform
This does not inspire confidence (Score:5, Funny)
Re:This does not inspire confidence (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Exactly!
And apart from nanotechnology and cool pyramids, what have the Egyptians ever done for us?
Re: (Score:2)
A catchy 80's song? [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:2)
Brought peace?
Oh, peace - shut up!
Even if they were using nanocrystals... (Score:2, Interesting)
Good point... (Score:5, Insightful)
Rubbing your head with lead sulfide definitely sounds safe enough, I guess that proves that nothing can go wrong with using technology.
Re: (Score:2)
Age old doesn't mean safe ... (Score:3, Insightful)
We've made enough and more mistakes along the path of our history to assume one of our "reinventions" is safe merely because somebody else used it before. Mad hatters, heavy metal colours, hallucinogenic potions, trepanning - just find a more upto date list.
Unless you want to add some mysterious oriental magic to it ... *meh*
not a good example of saftey in nanotech (Score:5, Funny)
a 100% mortality rate does not bode well for the method...
Fallacy (Score:3, Insightful)
People have been smoking for much longer than the tobacco companies have been selling cigarettes. They've also been drinking alcohol for even longer than that. Neither of those is safe today (the former more unsafe than the latter).
Re: (Score:2)
Personally, I'd choose to damage my body before my brain. No use living 20 more years if you're a dumbass wasting other people's oxygen.
Re: (Score:2)
In other news (Score:2)
PbS != safe (Score:2, Insightful)
The fact ancient peoples used something does NOT necessarily make it "safe" in any sense.
Nan? (Score:2)
This is chemistry.
Now, if the ancient Egyptians had been synthesizing lead sulfide nanoparticles inside a pyramid-shaped fab, I'd call it nanotechnology and bow to the wisdom of the ancients.
When, exactly, did Slashdot become so retarded?
Q and A (Score:5, Insightful)
A: During the Bush admistrations war on science, reason, morals and ethics.
Re: (Score:2)
Slashdot must have been seriously retarded to begin with, if Chimpy McHitlerBurton's pathetic, fumbling attempts at theocratic fascism were all it took to make it... even more retarded?
What, exactly, is your theory here?
Re: (Score:2)
When they started posting every piece of crap that came along from Roland Piquepaille.
Oh goody! (Score:2)
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go appoint my horse to the Senate, "bathe" in oil, and marry my sister.
Safe? (Score:2, Insightful)
Are you kidding? (Score:5, Insightful)
The Egyptians used nano-particles? There's a world of difference between a very small mineral grain and a synthesized nano-bot.
Get a clue.
How they built the pyramids (Score:2)
Well that about an absurd a statement as linking them to nanotech. Just because a process they used generated nano particles does not mean that they understood what they were doing and made concious engineering decisions to build nano particles.
humankind has a history... (Score:2)
Real article link... (Score:4, Informative)
Not so... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Oh yeah? (Score:2)
Safe? (Score:2)
Right. Unless they were rubbing lead onto their bodies.
Dude, nanotechnology or not, they were using lead. Lead is toxic, remember?
OK Slashdotters, let's all get on the Nanotechnology Is Modern Cool And Futuristic And Is Therefore A Good Thing So It Must Be Safe In All Cases bandwagon.
Roots(s) of the problem (Score:2)
Refusing to dye your hair is like telling the truth -- you never have to remember to go back to touch it up, and you never have to try to remember what you said. I'm always amazed that people aren't content with their natural hair color. A dye job may look pretty cool when it
what a crap write up (Score:5, Insightful)
"At a moment where many people wonder if the use of nanoparticles is safe, it's good to know that nanotechnology has been widely used for a very long time"
oh yeah! i just farted! therefore, global warming isn't a threat to mankind!
that's about the same level of logical deduction there dear author!
who wrote this crap and who greenlighted it?
Long history of stupid uses of toxic chemicals (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
We "should" be worried about "nanotech" (Score:4, Interesting)
Ok, all the comments about lead-not-safe and this-isn't-nanotech aside, I think there's something to be said for regulating compounds differently based on particle size.
We do know that some substances changes chemical properties depending on their particle size. We also haven't yet researched the health risks of nanotubes very well, but I think we should do so before spreading tons of the little critters around in field emission displays [wikipedia.org]. They might be quite hard to clean up after the fact.
This is not a call for "safety above all" - it's just an appeal to consider what is already known. (A comparison with cell phones, for instance, would show that cell phone frequencies are by known physics very unlikely to influence chemical reactions beyond thermal effects, hence allowing them per default is quite sensible).
Oh, and why did I write "nanotech" instead of nanotech? Because the term has become a buzzword so broad as to be almost meaningless, not least because thousands of labs have gained access to funding by putting a "Nanotech lab" sign on the door while continuing their usual work. (My place is partly like that). So be careful when using the term "nanotech" - it might mean vastly different things to different people and the ambiguity is being exploited.
Lifespan (Score:2)
"At a moment where many people wonder if the use of nanoparticles is safe, it's good to know that nanotechnology has been widely used for a very long time"
Their lifespan was 30 or 40 years... nanotech must be safe! Nanotech also did wonders for their environment - the Giza plateau is still one of the most lush and fertile in the world!
As Robin Williams once said... (Score:2)
Nothing New Under the Sun (Score:2)
Romans used lead water pipes in ancient times. But that didn't prove it was safe, even if they didn't realize they were getting lead poisoning.
Archeological studies of ancient chemistry and other technologies [google.com] has a lot of value informing our modern applications of related technologies. As well as teaching us to respect our elders. But we shouldn't worship the ancient tech as if it'
Of course its not safe... (Score:2)
So use it at your own risk - that "might attract babarian hordes" warning label is not there for nothing, ya know.
Yes, used for a long time... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I'm quite sure their descendants live on very happily today.
Because historical cosmetics are oh so safe. (Score:2, Interesting)
Ignoring the whole nanoparticle issue for the obvious absurdity, people have been using unsafe items to make themselves more attractive since the first monkey noticed how luxurious his fur was when he ate arsenic.
A brief list of methods used to enhance appearance that cause long-term damage:
Moo (Score:2)
Safe? You do realize that they all have dyed a long time ago, don't you?
Hair Dye... Warning: contains lead. (Score:2)
Must be nanotech, too, since the particles are very small.
Hell, cutting people up with obsidian arrowheads and knives must aslo count, since the edge of an obsidian blade is only a few atoms thick.
Hint: Just because something's nano-scale, and is a technology, does not ipso facto make it a nanotechnology.
Re: (Score:2)
"At a moment where many people wonder if the use of human sacrifice will appease the Gods, it's good to know that it has been widely used for a very long time"
Re:If the ancient Egyptians used it... (Score:4, Informative)
The people who wore these hair dyes were typically of the upper classes. The upper classes might well live to something even we would recognize as an advanced age.
Pepi II is thought to have ruled for 94 years. Ramses II lived to see his 90th birthday and his heir was in his 60s when he took the throne, ruling for about another 20 years.
Do not confuse life expectency with ages that might well be fairly commonly attainable. A huge chunk of the the lower life expectency is due to high infant mortality and death during childbirth, scewing the statistics. If one made it to the 21st year; and didn't work on pyramids and such, one's life outlook was held to be something around the classic age of man; four score and ten. That's why it's the classic age.
KFG
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Ancient Romans also used lead pipes (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)