Internet Explorer 7 RC1 Released 216
Kawahee writes "Microsoft, in conjunction with the announcement that they have finished Windows Vista RC1 have released Internet Explorer 7 RC1. Further commentary from the IE Blog post: 'The RC1 build includes improvements in performance, stability, security, and application compatibility. You may not notice many visible changes from the Beta 3 release; all we did was listen to your feedback, fix bugs that you reported, and make final adjustments to our CSS support.'"
Obligatory joke (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Obligatory joke (Score:5, Funny)
Thank God, no!
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CSS = ACID? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:CSS = ACID? (Score:5, Informative)
Breaks /. new discussion system (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:CSS = ACID? (Score:4, Informative)
Underscore hacks won't do the trick for MSIE 7 (which is probably good thing), pages with xml declaration are rendered in standards mode (which will cause some minor trouble, mainly because of that boxmodel change).
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Re:CSS = ACID? (Score:5, Informative)
Supporting IE7 will require some extra work by webdevs, but it's doable even if code already contains hacks for previous versions of IE.
Re:CSS = ACID? (Score:5, Insightful)
IE7 is an improvement, and I'm glad I have not been stupid enough in the past to use browser-detects. That is the sort of crap that keeps coming back to you with every new major version of any browser.
Don't rely on your trusty IE hacks anymore! (Score:3, Informative)
For further information on CSS compatability, check out the IEBlog entry, "Details on our CSS changes for IE7" [msdn.com], as well as the Quirksmode CSS browser compatability page [quirksmode.org].
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Re:CSS = ACID? (Score:5, Informative)
Basically most of the changes in Firefox 2.0 will be in the frontend, 3.0 will have a lot of improvements to the backend.
However, 2.0's CSS support is vastly superior to that in IE7.
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Our experience in building space vehicles: 50 years.
Experience in building HTML rendering engines: ~15 years.
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I'm not saying it's reasonable that it hasn't, I'm saying it's unreasonable to compare a bunch of cowboys that do stuff for fun with a few paid employees along with them to JPL making robots and sending them to Mars.
Re:CSS = ACID? (Score:5, Interesting)
For updates on thr trunk (which will become Fx3.0) see The Burning Edge [squarefree.com]
Re:CSS = ACID? (Score:5, Informative)
Really? That is huge news. Do you have ANY proof for that?
About Firefox passing the ACID2 with version 3, here is a screenshot what it looks like in the reflow branch (branch where there is a lot of work done with the CSS support, which will at some point most likely be merged with the Firefox 3 trunk branch). That is why we bulieve that Firefox 3 will pass the ACID2:
http://www.nelchael.net/varia/fireflowfox.png [nelchael.net]
( For those of you who don't like clicking links or can't see images. There is a screenshot of Firefox browser, ACID2 page open and I see no errors with it. )
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http://img241.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ie8acidg
for those of you who cant view this, its IE8 passing Acid test with flying colors.
Re:CSS = ACID? (Score:5, Insightful)
(I do not mean the ACID2 test!)
Now we will have yet another browser to make special exceptions for, different from IE5 and IE6, and we still cannot feed IE7 the same CSS as Firefox, Opera or Konqueror.
That is a step, but is it the right direction? I don't know.
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It has always been possible to install another browser, but looking at the number of IE5 and 5.5 visits I still see, I think it will be 5 years before IE6 shows any sign of disappearing.
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I know that the installer refuses to run it, didn't go any further.
Didn't know about Orca though, is it the Windows Installer table editor bundled in the Software SDK (just find it via googling, so I want to be sure)
Drop support for IE6? Not so fast... (Score:2)
So, all you programmers who write crappy HTML, guess what - you finally have to learn proper HTML!
Also note: Users on Win 2000 or below won't be getting IE7. *shrug* Fug 'em, I say. Fug 'em up their stupid...well, you know the quote.
Re:CSS = ACID? (Score:5, Informative)
They neglected the browser for years (not the IE devs fault but management decision) so it'll take a long time to get upto speed with the rest.
One thing that we must make sure NEVER happens is that IE gets as dominant as it was pre-Firefox otherwise they'll just stop IE development again. It's happened once, it can just happen again. Fortunately, despite the hard work of the IE team, there's still a lot of benefits to be gained from using Firefox or Opera (or Safari, etc)
Re:CSS = ACID? (Score:5, Insightful)
The popularity of IE7 cannot be stopped because it's bundled with Windows and made available through Windows Update web site which almost every Windows user frequents, knowningly or not. Therefore the browser doesn't have to be popular because it will be widely used regardless.
I've been a Firefox-only Windows user for years however if IE7 supports many of the features I like about Firefox, I will have no qualms using it instead. I want the Web, not a browser. The ACID tests are important for standards, but we know Microsoft usually doesn't adhere fully to standards that aren't their own, so it's no a surprise. With IE7 Microsoft seems to be adhering to the 80/20 rule -- in this case 80% of what the better brwosers have become with 20% of the effort expended. This is smart business practice despite the other aspects.
Microsoft has copied popular features introduced by other browsers (as they have done from each other). I know we're going to see less Firefox on Windows when IE7 is published to Windows update. Most users don't care for the ACID tests (only the developers). It's amazing the dominance the old IE browser still has even though Microsoft hasn't updated it in years. It's inevitable that IE7 will make big wave and grab back a large % of browser share with its copied features.
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Sad, when the monetary damages are the only thing that matters.
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Last I checked IE is still pretty dominant. I think we can say/see that Firefox has put some pressure on Microsoft, but MS still has what, 90% of the browser market?
Who the fuck cares about CSS? (Score:2, Interesting)
All the reviews I've read have pointed out that IE7's interface is way nicer than that of Firefox -- even in first betas. The default theme that comes with Firefox looks awfully outdated. Now, you may say that it doesn't matter because hey, there's all these themes and extensions you can install, but the truth is, not many people use themes (even the most popular ones only have at most a hundred thousand downloads) it will take an ordinary person only one look at IE7 before they dump Firefox. I'm very sorry
Re:Who the fuck cares about CSS? (Score:5, Insightful)
Most of the reviews I've read chide MS for creating an interface that looks far, far different than anything else in the OS.
The average person does NOT like MS's new interface design. For the most part, there is a huge majority of people who run XP in "classic" mode, enjoying all applications in a one-size-fits all, boxy, ugly as sin, tan/grey everything Windows 2000-style interface. In particular, placing tabs above the menu bar seems to incite hatred; people find it confusing.
Joe Blow doesn't like UI changes; even if they could potentially increase efficency. The only people that are really moved by whiz-bang UIs are young gamers and UI engineers.
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For the most part, there is a huge majority of people who run XP in "classic" mode, enjoying all applications in a one-size-fits all, boxy, ugly as sin, tan/grey everything Windows 2000-style interface.
You are claiming that the "huge majority" of people who use Windows XP run in "classic" mode. What is your source for this?
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Classic mode is more or less identified with W2K. But W2K was never mass market.
I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that most users don't know and don't care that there is an alternative to "Luna."
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Personally, I think it looks pretty decent in Vista, where the toolbars and window border sorta flow together, but in XP, they should have gone with the classic toolbar layout. It doesn't particularly look good in XP, and it's not what people are going to be expecting.
Also, Microsoft seems obsessed with removing the menubar in all of their latest apps (Office, most Vista components, IE7) , and I really don't think it's a good idea.
Firefox 2 will actua
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I don't know where you're reading these reviews, because I haven't seen any of them. Most all the tech reviews I've read - or, heck, even places like pcworld.com - just point out the places where it's added a feature that Firefox, Safari, and Opera have had for years (e.g. tabbed windows, dedicated search box). When the reviews talk about how IE has differentiated itself, they generally
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IE7 is much easier to use than Firefox and it will be the way to go for the majority of Internet users.
I completely disagree. I've been using the Internet since the days of 14.4 SLIP connections and I've gotten used to the "standard" interfaces. IE7 changed the interface up
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IIRC, Konqueror and a heavily patched Webkit (they share a similar code base, of course) are the only browsers that pass ACID 2.0 . Oh, and Opera, of course; but that's because Opera tends to be light years ahead in terms of rendering engine design (I do dislike the Opera UI, though). Even Opera on mobile devices passes.
Take a look at the results here [howtocreate.co.uk]. Look at the screenshots. Firefox fails the test, but it's pretty close. IE7 is
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The ACID patch changes in WebKit have been shipping with Safari for a while now.
Re:CSS = ACID? (Score:4, Informative)
Please do not spread this myth. It is simply not true. If you had actually read the Acid2 technical guide instead of relying on Slashdot hearsay, you would know this. From a previous comment of mine [slashdot.org]:
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The ACID test is a test validating behaviour that is supposed to happen when errors occur, according to the standard. In other words, the error handling parts of the CSS standard are validated..
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FINISHED?! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:FINISHED?! (Score:5, Informative)
Not much as been said on these future releases yet except that they're hard at work on them.
backwards compatibility (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:backwards compatibility (Score:5, Insightful)
A workaround sheet for IE7 has not yet been written, but it is very apparent (at least in beta3) that it is not up to the quality in standard CSS handling that the other browsers (Opera, Firefox, Konqueror) are. There are still positioning and stacking bugs.
I hope they fix them before release, but I'm afraid they won't. So this will introduce yet another class of broken browser workarounds: not as broken as IE6, but still broken.
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So in an ideal world, designers would drop tools and say
One Word... (Score:2)
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In the e
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No one hangs around long enough to give a damn about why your site doesn't render properly.
There is always another just one click way.
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To do the reverse, develop for FF and make it compatible with IE, is elitist and foolish and wastefull.
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So when they have visited 10 sites that displayed ok, then visit your site and it is a mess, it must be a problem of your site.
Now, this may change with IE7. There will be a lot of sites that people who newly installed IE7 will visit, and will render incorrectly.
That may wake up some people.
It is probably because of this that Microsoft does not allow you to install IE6 and 7 alongside.
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I saw some minor glitches in rendering in the public betas. But no show-stoppers so far in RC 1.
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Only once did I have a problem: I ran the debugger and then immediately clicked on an existing IE window. It usually opens a whole new IE window (vs a new tab in an existing IE window), but that one time it didn't do anything. I stopped and restarted the debugger and it worked fine.
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I wonder if they will ever reach the level of their competitors without doing a total rewrite of their rendering engine. As we seen from Mozilla rewriting a rendering engine takes time, the gecko engine now used by Firefox debuted in Netscape 6, it took many years to get into shape.
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In Windows Vista Build 5536? (Score:2)
Re:In Windows Vista Build 5536? (Score:5, Informative)
IE for Vista was going to be named IE7+ [msdn.com] and XP simply IE7, however they scrapped that naming convention.
Also another slight name change, on both platforms it's no longer "Microsoft Internet Explorer" it's now "Windows Internet Explorer".
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Protected Mode in Vista IE7 [msdn.com], Windows Vista and Parental Controls in IE7 [msdn.com], and Vista only network diagnostic tools.
Really? (Score:4, Insightful)
So this version will actually let me punch internet trolls in the face remotley?
I suppose you could say that if they are using Internet Explorer no further punishment is really necessary. Tell you what, I'll meet you half way - if it's detected that Flash is installed the face-punching module can be turned off and replaced with an endless loop of Joanna Smith's Video Blog Installment 19 (My Trip To Blackpool) instead. Do we have a deal?
On a related note in a tainted and statistically useless sample (ie, mostly Slashdot users) even Mac users can be tempted from Safari [revis.co.uk] it seems - so why everyone assumes that on the release of IE 7 Firefox market share is going to die I have no idea.
Re:Really? (Score:4, Informative)
I definitely don't think IE7 will significantly hurt Firefox usage. Look at it this way:
Re:Really? (Score:5, Informative)
I watched that happen on one of my boxes at home- unplugged the cat5, and the install claimed it couldnt finish without internet connection. And that's after you go through the validation process just so you can download IE7 from MS.
Be warned- if you don't want WGA, be careful trying to install IE7.
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*sigh*
Yeah, that's the debate I want people to think of when I describe myself as an Opera fanboy.
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I really hope they get it fixed before release.
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I'm sorry, but that would infringe on my intellectual property - the "Remote Bitch Slap Protocol", or RBSP/IP, which I came up with in 1994.
what (Score:3, Informative)
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IE & CSS (Score:2)
"and make final adjustments to our CSS support"
Does that mean that they make it fundamentally broken and still don't handle the box model correctly?
Re:IE & CSS (Score:2)
CSS Changes for IE7 (Score:5, Informative)
It's mostly bug fixes, notable new features are enabling
display: table-cell (Score:2)
Although it does now allow position: fixed; and to specify, left: 10%; right: 10%; top: 10%; bottom: 10%; to make things centered easily.
Blink Support? (Score:4, Funny)
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Source [goer.org]
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PNG gamma handling is still wrong (Score:5, Informative)
and from untagged images. See http://pmt.sf.net/gamma_test [sf.net] where the 1/2.2 patches
should match and the 1/1.96 patches should be lighter (use Firefox or almost any other
browser to see how the page should be rendered).
No, you're wrong (Score:2)
sRGB uses a gamma consisting of a linear portion near black and 1/2.4 elsewhere, for a total result that is ALMOST 1/2.2
"almost"
in other words, "different"
Of course, then there is the issue of reality. Gamma is usually wrong. Most anything between 1/2.0 and 1/2.5 is really a crude way to say "like some random monitor I used", which is essentially what sRGB is intended to represent. Probably half the files marked 1/1.0 are really sRGB as well. Other values (... 1/0.9, 1/1.1
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Can't customize the toolbar (Score:5, Interesting)
Pluses?
Tabbed browing - Welcome to the 90s.
Shrink to fit printing - Gee why would we need that? I like having 15% of every page I print cut off.
RSS Feeds - Does anyone even use this?
Integrated Search - About time.
Overall I think this is the browser that MS should have released 3-4 years ago. It is better than IE 6 in pretty much every way but I don't see Opera or Firefox users coming back anytime soon. I know that MS sees these changes as a big deal but I honestly expected more from a company that spends $1 Billion+ on R&D per year. With all of that money and talent the best they could do is copy features that other browsers have had for years and years? Talk about a total lack of innovation.
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This is why the Acid2 test exists, folks. We are sick of having to do browser detection, especially for different versions of the same browser.
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What?! User interface is non-standard and sucks. The CSS support is different but not right, so correct CSS is broken AND IE6 hacked CSS is broken. What way is it better in? Tabs. Thats one way, not pretty much every way.
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Maybe your CSS development is a bit more exotic than mine. I've just started working on CSS pages and having to re-work every page I create to look right in IE6 got old real fast. Easily doubled the time it to took make a page. I load the same page in IE7 and it looks fine.
The CSS support may not be "Perfect", but it's close enough to the rest of the browsers on the market for me.
The bad news is that I still have to design with IE6 in mind. It'll be years before it's useage rate is low enough to ignore.
I al
Can a release candidate be released then? (Score:2, Interesting)
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IE7 is spyware (Score:4, Interesting)
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Seriously though: no, it will not pass. However, neither will it fail quite as miserably as MSIE 6.0 does.
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