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Microsoft's 'Naughty or Nice' Patent Application 125

theodp writes "Those of you worried about Microsoft's stance on network neutrality won't find much comfort in the software giant's just-published patent application for systems and methods to facilitate self regulation of social networks through trading and gift exchange, which classify users as good or bad and call for network bandwidth to be reduced for those deemed 'less desirable.'"
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Microsoft's 'Naughty or Nice' Patent Application

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  • limitation (Score:3, Interesting)

    by eneville ( 745111 ) on Friday August 25, 2006 @07:46AM (#15976969) Homepage
    Can we have a limit please on the number of patents one company may have.
  • by interiot ( 50685 ) on Friday August 25, 2006 @07:49AM (#15976979) Homepage
    The only thing net neutrality should ever be applied to are situations where a natual monopoly (last mile companies) or other monopolies exist. eg. Where you have one entity who has the power to degrade another entity's bandwidth simply because the other entity is performing better than them.

    In most other situations, market/social forces will usually make the right result come out.

  • Took a while... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Macthorpe ( 960048 ) on Friday August 25, 2006 @07:50AM (#15976985) Journal
    ...but I did find the part where bandwidth is mentioned as an asset that can be controlled via this system.

    While you can look at it one way and say this is just a logical extension of rewarding 'good' users, the fact that the system can be used to punish 'bad' users and explains nothing about how this definition of 'good' and 'bad' will be determined makes me more concerned for the people using such a service.

    I bloody well wouldn't.
  • by pasamio ( 737659 ) on Friday August 25, 2006 @07:50AM (#15976989) Homepage
    What happens if a lot of Linux/Mac users give Microsoft a bad rating. Doesn't this mean that they should have reduced bandwidth? What about all of those who still use Windows but hate MS because Word just ate their essay, Powerpoint destroyed the presentation that is about to happen in a few hours. I can see this raising very interesting prospects, just need a large enough group of people.

    But MS probably have insulated themselves against it anyway...
  • Slashdot infringes (Score:5, Interesting)

    by LaughingCoder ( 914424 ) on Friday August 25, 2006 @07:56AM (#15977011)
    Here is the first claim of the patent:

    "1. A system that facilitates self-regulation of a social network comprising: a network monitoring component that watches user behavior on the social network; and an asset allocation component that allocates or re-allocates one or more assets among one or more network users based at least in part on whether the user behavior is desirable."

    As I read that, the Slashdot moderation system infringes. The "network monitoring component" is the editors and the moderators. They "watch user behavior on the social network". The "asset allocation component" is the karma, which affects how broadly users' messages get seen. Lastly, "based ... on whether the user behavior is desireable" is obviously a big part of the moderation system (flamebait, troll, are ways to discoiurage undesirable behavior).
  • Re:Confused? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Jugalator ( 259273 ) on Friday August 25, 2006 @07:59AM (#15977035) Journal
    It seems MS won't be negotiating with AT&T to reduce bandwidth for "bad" users or anything, so I can't say network neutrality is affected one way or another. As for some users on Microsoft's services getting less bandwidth from their own servers because Microsoft wants that, well, who cares? If you don't like their service (and given the quality of Microsoft's stuff, you likely won't), just don't use it?

    I can't see anything in the article saying the network owner will start reducing your bandwidth for YouTube if you were a "bad" user on Microsoft Service X in this patent. You'd only be affected if using Microsoft Service X by Microsoft themselves. Like another way of punishing users than downmodding on Slashdot, but perhaps better applied to high bandwidth media content. Shouldn't Microsoft has the right to dedicate their server resources like they want?

    My problem is mostly about companies paying actual network owners to get improved quality of service which could affect users in totally different ways than this.
  • AC (Score:5, Interesting)

    by just_another_sean ( 919159 ) on Friday August 25, 2006 @08:08AM (#15977069) Journal
    So how long unitl Anonymous Cowards lose bandwidth on /.?

    For that matter does this mean my karma might buy me more bandwidth?
  • Re:Prior Art (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Cruise_WD ( 410599 ) on Friday August 25, 2006 @08:29AM (#15977159) Homepage
    And of course there's http://freenetproject.org/ [freenetproject.org] which added with 0.7 darknet mode - a network supposed to be based on an already existing social network, which automatically awards tokens to connections based on their behaviour, which controls their bandwidth and frequency of requests.

    There's so many prior art examples of this it's just silly.
  • by LaughingCoder ( 914424 ) on Friday August 25, 2006 @08:42AM (#15977220)
    Please don't call me ignorant. If you read the text of the claim, you will notice that it is an independent claim. You can indeed just read one claim if it is not dependent on prior claims. Note that claim 2 of the patent starts out with the statement (I'm paraphrasing) "A system as described in claim 1 ...". This is known as a dependent claim and cannot stand on its own. If claim 1 were knocked out, claim 2 automatically is knocked out. People who are not ignorant of patents realize this.
  • Re:Confused? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 25, 2006 @08:56AM (#15977301)
    Other good analogies -- AIM's warning system, Ebay's feedback ratings. There are plenty of examples of PRIOR ART, mind you, where this has been done... nothing really to see here... Thanks for the tinfoil hat posting about this item, though, editors.
  • by the_arrow ( 171557 ) on Friday August 25, 2006 @09:04AM (#15977351) Homepage
    Well... It is Microsoft we're talking about here, so of course /. infringes on their new patent. But then MS very nice blokes and wont use it against anyone, and that all MS patents are defensive patents. So it wont be used against /., unless /. bring a patent lawsuit against MS.
  • by niceone ( 992278 ) on Friday August 25, 2006 @09:22AM (#15977452) Journal

    Uhh - if something exists before the patent, it's called "prior art", not infringement.

    Surely that depends on how much cash you have for lawyers?

  • XBox live? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by shaggy43 ( 21472 ) on Friday August 25, 2006 @10:13AM (#15977908)
    How about XBox live's 'rep' system? Lower bandwidth for modded-down players, anyone?
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 25, 2006 @10:14AM (#15977913)
    only if you're in econ 101 do market forces "usually" make the "right" result come out.

    there's a reason why phrases such as asymmetric information and channel management exist. and why poor people pay more for the same services as rich people. it's called marketing, appropriately enough.

    weeeee. market forces!! they created the current patent system, moron, along with pro-business new jersey laws, and self-regulation schemes. not to mention redlining, and zipcode based insurance, and new products paying for space at grocery stores, and mail-in-rebates, and manufactured 'minutes' plans, and all sorts of other interesting little quirks and inefficiencies that occur when you don't have anywhere near perfect competition. Companies know and understand this and that, even in cases where the market will eventually 'deal' with problems, improvements in the market can be delayed again and again by managing the product and policies appropriately.
  • Re:Prior Art (Score:2, Interesting)

    by juanzuluaga ( 970280 ) on Friday August 25, 2006 @10:28AM (#15978036)
    Pareto [wikipedia.org], Durkheim [wikipedia.org], Kropotkin [gutenberg.org], Simmel [socio.ch], Tonnies [wikipedia.org], Adam Smith [wikipedia.org], Hobbes [wikipedia.org], Jesus [wikipedia.org], Confucius [wikipedia.org], Democracy [wikipedia.org], Golden Rule [wikipedia.org]. And bees.

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