Update on Xara's OS Vector Graphics Project

An anonymous reader writes "We first heard from Xara when they announced their plan to release their crown jewels, the Xara X source code under GPL. Now, 5 scant months since going Open Source, Xara has released Xara Xtreme Linux 0.7, a very functional, robust illustration program. What this means for the Linux Desktop is significant: a true professional grade graphics package. And for a glimpse at what Xara can do, you owe it to yourself to see the new Xara Xtreme Linux Screenshot gallery with amazing, unbelievable vector graphic art."

coral to the rescue

[Anonymous Coward]

here's working coral cache

http://www.xaraxtreme.org.nyud.net:8090/screenshot s.html [nyud.net]

The Google cache ...

[ClickOnThis]

... is right here [72.14.203.104] and still appears to be building. But at least it's not on fire.

Re:pics mirror?

[fatgav]

But Xara is more than 10 years old, it was the name given in 1995 to the PC orientated side of Computer Concepts, an Acorn orientated company started in 1981. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xara [wikipedia.org]

Re:Full opensource ?

[Tet]

IIRC the core of Xara Xtreme were put on some binary only libs.

Kind of. There are two renderers. They've open sourced the slower one, and are keeping the faster one closed, for now, at least. The software is fully functional, but it's slower than the closed source version (although still fast enough -- it's comparable to inkscape for the things for which I've been using it.

FWIW, I'm using 0.7 right now, and it's very impressive. There are still a few graphical glitches, and some things that I find easier to do in inkscape/sodipodi. Conversely, there are some things that I can do in Xara that are all but impossible in inkscape. Feathered variable transparency rocks my world. I think it's great that we have both options. Each have their strengths and weaknesses, and I use both for my projects.

Looks interesting

[also-rr]

Wikipedia has more [wikipedia.org] on Xara (of course).

I'm a huge fan of vector drawing, even to the point of using Inkscape to animate stuff [revis.co.uk]. I can't wait to try this out, especially if it has better support for frame generation.

Based on wxWidgets == more than Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm probably going to make the server burn a little more by piquing Mac user interest in addition to Linux, but, as gleaned from the google cache of the text [72.14.203.104] (the images are still roiling in flames on a server somewhere), they are using wxWidgets [wikipedia.org], and they say they're looking for developers and testers for Mac OS too. I guess a port there is not far off. Presumably other platforms are possible too.

Re:But does ot run on linu...

[DittoBox]

GDI+ and Quartz are rendering APIs, not vector art programs. *nix has had Cairo for a couple of years and X has been around longer than Quartz or GDI/+.

Pity about the server ...

[isolationism]

... But they're a relatively small shop, which is probably the only reason they're having anything to do with Linux at all (trying to get leverage in a growing niche market). I'm sure they like the press regardless, but I'm guessing nobody's in the office now that it's nearly midnight in Britain.

I am doubtless one of the reasons that Xara LX exists at all -- I wrote their product manager a couple years ago to state I intended to switch to Linux, and would really love it if their product could at least run under WINE; at the time they said they had no intentions on working on a Linux version in the future and that "Linux users seem to expect everything for free". That they are upping the ante and actually making a Linux version that is indeed free is puzzling, but I'm not complaining: I've bought every revision of the software since 1.0 back in the 90s and still prefer it to Inkscape, Illustrator, and all the other competitors on the block.

My only beefs, if I could be said to have any:

• Inkscape has more intelligent handling of shapes. For example, the corner radius of a rounded corner is preserved once a shape is resized; in Xara it changes proportional to the altered dimensions from the original shape. Yuck.
• Inkscape also has a kick-ass calligraphy tool, which isn't useless -- I've already used it to design a product logo for a very real product of a relatively large company. No other vector-based tool for calligraphy comes close.
• I dearly, sorely wish that Xara would figure out how to get SVG support into Xara. It's a glaring omission that isn't going to fly with the Linux crowd. At all. And it's annoying not to have it in Windows, either. Strangely enough, SVG support was one of the excuses I was given by Xara's product manager for not making a Linux version of Xara (e.g. SVG had priority). I wonder how that's shifted now, and if SVG support is still on the agenda, and for which version(s) of their software.
• Finally, I know that Xara had earlier pledged to support another open-source application named UberConverter [scratchcomputing.com] which was supposed to be the Rosetta stone to format interoperability. According to the status page, "xar" file read and write capability is there (at least for the LX format) -- so when is the result going to be integrated directly into Xara?

All told, though, I am grateful to Xara for their decision -- and to all the developers who have contributed to the success of the project. If I could code my way out of a proverbial wet paper bag I would have helped by now, but unfortunately I am one of those individuals who is happy to use Xara's products without having the faintest idea of how to make them (or make them better, in this case).

Fedora Extras

[macemoneta]

For Fedora folks, XaraLX and XaraLX-examples are in the Extras repository, which is enabled by default. Just:

yum -y install XaraLX and XaraLX-examples

Re:Call me when it does SVG

[fuxoft]

Well, if you'd tried the Linux version, you'd find out it DOES support SVG... It's still in early stages but they are working on full support and new builds are published daily...

Re:Needless hype

[Tim Browse]

"Could "An anonymous reader" possibly be Xara?"

I worked at Xara a few years back, and a more cynical person than I would say that the copy style used in the submission seems strangely familiar, especially bits like "you owe it to yourself". :-)

You think it if was Xara they would have better prepared themselves for the slashdotting.

I worked at Xara a few years back, and a more cynical person than I would say that...well, you can probably see where I'm going with this.

Debian debs

[51mon]

As no one with Debian uses it, or looks in it, but XaraLX is in "non-free" for Etch and Sid. Looks like the maintainer upgraded it to 0.7 in Sid, Etch is 0.6 currently.

Re:Pity about the server ...

[Tim Browse]

I dearly, sorely wish that Xara would figure out how to get SVG support into Xara. It's a glaring omission that isn't going to fly with the Linux crowd. At all. And it's annoying not to have it in Windows, either. Strangely enough, SVG support was one of the excuses I was given by Xara's product manager for not making a Linux version of Xara (e.g. SVG had priority). I wonder how that's shifted now, and if SVG support is still on the agenda, and for which version(s) of their software.

Well, it's a tricky thing, because Xara does some rampant* things with vectors, that are often hard to reproduce in other formats. Speaking as the person who designed the original file format filter (import/export) system, I'd have to say that writing a basic SVG exporter isn't hard, and would cover a lot of cases. However, it wouldn't cope with some of the fancier features very well (or at all) - handling everything properly is a lot of work. And producing something that 'kind of' works results in a poor user experience, which is something Xara (the company and product) tries to avoid.

But it would be nice to have a basic exporter for people who want SVG, as I still find Xara the easiest program to use for knocking up diagrams and illustrations (I admit I may be susceptible to some bias here). I still remember trying Visio (when it first came out!) to produce some architecture diagrams for Xara, and wishing that I had a good diagram/illustration package to use for the purpose (talk about catch-22). I try Visio every couple of years, but the UI is still akin to being poked in the eye with a sharp yacht.

* I use the word advisedly, as any of the original Xara developers will know :-)

Re:Call me when it does SVG

[vhogemann]

I've read that Xara is in contact with the Inkscape team, so I guess that we'll see SVG capabilities on Xara Xtreme soon. A quick look at the project roadmap shows that a SVG import/export filter is planned.

Re:But does ot run on linu...

[Overly Critical Guy]

GDI+ and Quartz are vector APIs. X has nothing to do with that, and Cairo still isn't production quality.

Re:But does ot run on linu...

[jcupitt65]

Cairo has been rendering GNOME for over a year. The software renderer is a bit slow on linux, but it works fine. I was hoping there might br some way to ue the Xara renderer to speed it up, but it doesn't look like that's possible yet.

X does have a vector API, just not a very good one :)

Xara LX is indeed pretty nice ...

[isolationism]

... And frankly, much of what makes it so nice to work with has been around since version 1.0. There are too many features to list out, but just a few of the things I love about it:

• Unlike the big guy out there, Xara can actually export a bitmap of exactly what you see on the screen. Not something similar, not something pretty close: exactly what is there, pixel for pixel. Why Illustrator still can't do this is utterly beyond me; Xara has been doing it since version 1.0.
• Ever have a drawing that needed guidelines that weren't a perfect horizontal or vertical line? No problem. In Xara, guidelines are just another layer: You can draw (or move) any vector shape whatsoever to the guide layer. This is also handy for exporting an "invisible" padding around an object, if you need one -- Of course you can create a truly invisible object which will work too, but this method is nicer since you can see what you're selecting.
• Need to move something just a little? Use the arrow keys. Xara makes excellent use of the keyboard for nudging objects in a variety of different increments -- Right down to 0.2 pixels.
• Zoom capability. Sorry, no other vector software (and in fact most bitmap software) doesn't even come 1/100th as close. Literally.
• Speed. People are always amazed at how quickly Xara can be worked with -- Enough for me to be able to impress a boss looking over my shoulder and suggesting a change, then being able to do it in realtime right in front of their eyes. There are hundreds of tricks for working quick in Xara, and none of them will beat familiarity with the product -- but Xara is aces for being able to work quickly. Illustrator is extremely clunky in comparison (even thought it admittedly does sport more features, especially benefitting from interoperability with Photoshop, layer effects, and drafting-capable features). For just one concrete example, if you want to copy something in Xara, just drag it with the mouse then click the right mouse button to "stamp" down a quick copy somewhere else.
• Colour management. No, it doesn't do ICM (and more's the pity, it would be nice to have) but rather the ability to quickly but powerfully manage colours in your drawings. Illustrator has a similar (but much more complex and slow) functionality but Inkscape doesn't -- being able to make a complete drawing with 'assigned' and co-dependent colours, then changing the colours in the palette afterward to affect the entire drawing is immensely powerful and gratifying (as it pays off often, especially during the comprehensive and implementation phases of a design).

I do hope you enjoy playing with Xara; I know how "high" I felt when it dawned on me what great software it was to use in 1997 when I was first introduced to it. I think this company has written some great software; their products command a near-cult status following already (many of their followers dating all the way back to 'Acorn Draw'). Developing a port of their flagship product for Linux is quite definitely not going to hurt their reputation in the latter respect, at least. ;)

Inkscape and Xara are comrades

[ishmalius]

"Xara vs Inkscape" is a silly notion. I have been a member of the Inkscape project for years now; since before it began. We have recently started collaborating with the Xara guys. Inkscape and Xara have a wonderful relationship. There is no "vs." We are basically attacking the problem from different angles, that's all.