SanDisk Releases New iPod rival 401
codemachine writes "SanDisk has released its new iPod rival: the new Sansa e280 music player. It has twice the capacity of the iPod nano at a similar price. Even better, it can be expanded through its mini-SD slot, and comes with an FM tuner. The device is said to work well with both Windows and Linux, without adding any drivers. Some work on reverse engineering this product line has already begun. Might this be a great alternative MP3 player for Linux users?"
Even so, nothing beats a wax cylinder (Score:5, Funny)
Then again, it could just be my hearing is shot from all that fighting in the Great War.
Re:Even so, nothing beats a wax cylinder (Score:5, Funny)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-11712460
Linux users? (Score:4, Interesting)
First - FTFA:
Includes the Sansa Media Converter to support all picture and video formats
All video formats? (raises eyebrow?) I f#cking doubt it. How about DRMd WMV9? I doubt it can handle HD content too!
Minimum System Requirements
* Windows XP
* Windows Media Player 10+
Uh-huh. Good linux support there!
Lastly, FTFS:
Might this be a great alternative MP3 player for Linux users?
Linux users have better support for iPods than windows itunes users do - they can copy songs off the iPod to another computer (without stupid third party addons, weird hacks, or scary warnings). They can also use iPods that with HFS filesystems. All seamlessly.
I guess it could be argued that most linux users would prefer a music player from a company that doesn't push DRM heavily (but sandisk pushes DRM as much as Apple does.
Still, twice the space & lighter than the equivilant ipod. Sounds if not good, then less crap. Let's hope their rockbox strategy works - that would really make a difference.
Yes Linux Users AND Mac User Can Enjoy the e200 (Score:5, Informative)
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They all do because the manufactors dont want grandma calling in their tech support lines asking about rpm and kernel modules to work with their hardware.
Its fustrating. Especially if you purchase a wifi card. Some with the name linksys will work. Some with the same name wont and will be based on a different proprietary chipset but will carry the same product name. Its just impossible to know if any product will work with linux at all unless you do some
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third party addons (Score:5, Insightful)
Hmmmm, as there is no official iPod software for Linux users at all, I'd say all Linux software to use iPods would fall under "stupid third party addons" and "weird hacks", no?
Official iPod for KDE (Score:2)
Valuable info in the user guide! (Score:5, Informative)
The player has two modes. One mode is like an external USB drive and supports MP3's. That should work just fine for Linux. Two drives will show. One is the internal memory and the other is the SD card.
The other mode the player supports if for subscription services and uses Windows DRM. For Linux users this is a useless feature along with the Windows requirement and anything secure WMA files.
Thought you should know.
The section in the manual covers some FAQ's including why some DRM WMA files won't play and some stuff of expiration of files by the copyright holders.. Funny these are features of the Microsoft Plays for Sure stuff.
I think I'll stick to MP3's as they play for sure.
I'm not so sure about the Microsoft's Plays for Sure content. It sounds like it might not play for sure.
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Bull poppy- coo doo doo!
Linux users do not in any way have better support for iPods than windows.
Ipod shuffle Purchased for my wife based on claims like yours last christmas. Under ubuntu it will not synch the music to save my life. I tried several different ipod sync systems that were not command line and thaey all fail to do it reliably.
From all the research I did to try and get the damn thing to work I was not alone and many
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Seriously people, it is not too difficult just to see at the specifications list:
Supports Subscription Music Stores
I suppose that the support for all the media types is by converting from whatever media to a compatible type tough
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Re:Linux users? (Score:4, Interesting)
Music player reviews are generally meaningless since most reviewers do not know what to listen for and do not even have a good pair of headphones. In fact, almost every review is gushing with excitement even if the product has serious flaw. This happens because review sites get free products and advertising from manufacturers. They almost never say "this product sucks", they just give it a lukewarm review.
While I haven't listened to the sandisk player, I have a pretty good idea how they get it to have an FM tuner and 20 hours of battery life -- by cutting every corner they can on the DAC and analog section. I am an electrical engineer, and I have a pretty good idea of what all the compromises are. A craptastic DAC will have very low power consumption, but it will also sound rather mediocre on a hi-fi system or a pair of good headphones. If you want an FM tuner, you also need an analog switch and a separate headphone amp chip, which further reduces sound quality (all of these components are bottom-shelf to keep cost down). By eliminating useless features, Apple can significantly improve the sound quality while maintaining low cost.
The iPod is the only portable player I've used that is good enough to plug into a good stereo system. This includes a fairly large number of portable CD and MP3 players that I've been unfortunate enough to own. I know why this is the case -- unlike many no-name players, they actually use fairly decent DAC chips from Wolfson Microelectronics. Most other players use much cheaper DACs that are far inferior, to say nothing of the rest of the analog circuitry.
Does it have the horsepower for Ogg? (Score:2)
Re:Does it have the horsepower for Ogg? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Does it have the horsepower for Ogg? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Consumers don't want vorbis or mp3, they want music.
How the manufacturers deliver that music to them is up to the manufacturers.
My point was that with an aye on the future, begining to suppport ogg now can save the manufaturers money later.
Re:Does it have the horsepower for Ogg? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm pretty sure they want mp3 [google.com]. Depending on which server you hit at that link, you'll get anywhere from 785,000,000 to 1,085,000,000 results.
Vorbis, on the other hand, has only around 12,000,000 results.
I think in this case, it's wrong to assume that customers don't know or care what format they're using. In order to even *have* mp3's, most people would have had to make a conscious decision to either rip or acquire them that way - because none of the major label-supported download services offer that format (I know, Emusic does), and the two biggest library/ripping apps (iTunes and WMP) rip to other formats by default.
In fact, the "industry" has been actively trying to kill off mp3 for years now, because of the DRM issue. Windows Media 8 or 9 didn't even include mp3 ripping as an option at all until people complained, and then the initial "fix" only let you rip at up to 64kbps. Apple and MS have both been hyping their own formats as sounding better than mp3 (which is, on average, bullshit [rjamorim.com]). And the record industry won't put any of their music on the market in the format.
Device manufacturers, though, have learned the hard way that not supporting mp3 is a death knell. Sony was forced to support it after their non-mp3 DAPs failed to even make a dent in the market. And this was back when it still wasn't clear who was going to win the DAP war; Apple was the early leader but it still seemed like anyone's game. Sony threw their chance away by not supporting mp3 from the start; they've never recovered from that blunder. The lead Apple built while Sony's early players languished on the market is now pretty much insurmountable.
Meanwhile, MS is about to dump their unsuccessful Windows Media format with the Zune; or at least, they haven't committed to it one way or another. They will be supporting mp3, however, because you don't beat the iPod by refusing to support the biggest format out there.
All of this shows that consumers sure do know what format they want their music in and that format is mp3. In fact, most people still buy CD's and rip their own music to mp3 themselves.
Device manufacturers will start to support vorbis I'd imagine when the public decides that's what it wants to use... which means never.
I know some people have some sort of philosophical/political attachment to ogg vorbis as a non-proprietary codec. But you should take your victories where you can, and you should look at the popularity of mp3 in that light. It may be a proprietary format but for users, it is also an unencumbered, universally-supported format. Users are choosing it over the even more tightly controlled formats favored by Microsoft, Apple and the RIAA. And they're bucking predictions of mp3's demise that have been made by analysts for years and continue to be made today. It's just never going to happen.
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So why do they bother including support for DRM'ed Microsoft formats? Seriously who wants that rubbish, but just about every new portable player includes it.
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Probably because the engineering design and development costs, plus (potentially) the additional hardware costs to support another format, far exceed the royalties paid. What if adding Ogg bumps your firmware size from 256KB to 512KB? This may not seem like much, but back when I interned for Lucent's Business Communications Systems division (now Avaya) i
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Don't give up hope! [janusdevelopment.com]
Ogg? (Score:2)
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Anyone who cares that much about music quality would never let their music touch a device like this. There is no way lossless would be of any help with the puny opamp output stage in this type of player.
Besides, I'm willing to bet you can't tell the difference anyway vs high rate ogg (unless you own some HD650s or something, but even then..)
Again, Rockbox (Score:5, Interesting)
I highly recommend it. :D
.:bleaked
Re:Again, Rockbox (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, Rockbox is a fantastic project and I would just love to try it out -- if it weren't for a major problem: the code hasn't been optimised for low power consumption. From the web site [rockbox.org]: Battery life is significantly less than the Apple firmware.
I wouldn't mind the other known flaws/bugs, but a high battery life is a must for me. I'll install Rockbox as soon as that has been ironed out.
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Indeed, battery life is huge. For me though, I didn't have much of a choice, since 90% of my music is ogg or flac.
In my personal experience, I got about 10 or 10.5 hours at best with the apple firmware. With Rockbox, I receive about 8-9 hours reliably (sometimes over 10!), playing ogg (eats more juice -- inherent with ogg), with a skin (default is ugly), backlight (4 seconds, faded), and mostly continuous (I play it all day at work, but shut it off during my lunch break). Which for me, is pretty damn g
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An ideal ogg decoder might need more horsepower than an ideal mp3 decoder, but RockBox's ogg decoder is much faster than its mp3 decoder.
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Important thing to remember, too, is that I got my
Rockbox for iPod not ready for prime time (Score:2)
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I also like the audio quality, not that I'm any kind of audiophile. Pretty good equalizer options, including SRS WOW support and user-customizable EQ. I have
Re:Does it have the horsepower for Ogg? (Score:4, Informative)
Models sold elsewhere (Asia, etc.) apparently are shipped as proper UMS devices.
It's possible to flash it's firmware to "fix" this, and making it a proper UMS device, but in doing so, I believe you lose the ability to play DRMd music. (That's what I've done with mine.) Google will give you a link.
I've also got a T20 - same issues, though not tried flashing it yet.
Does not support Ogg (Score:2)
As much as I like Ogg. I still rip to MP3 because everything plays it including my DVD player.
A feature I wish my iPod had... (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:A feature I wish my iPod had... (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:A feature I wish my iPod had... (Score:5, Interesting)
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I suppose it would be a nice feature, but it would require putting a break in the case. I doubt the vast majority of iPod owners would use the feature. Look at how many people buy spare batteries for their laptops.
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I will go for style any day and live without that latch. Me, and most other iPod owners, are never really away from a plug for 12 hours of listening time.
There are lots of battery packs out there, that will solve the energy problem people might have on the road. There are even a few solar panels for people who venture off the beaten path.
Missing one feature. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Missing one feature. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Honestly, I think you audiophile freaks would be happy listening to a 200Hz test signal, as long as it was reproduced perfectly...
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Fatal flaw (Score:5, Funny)
I'll leave the "no wifi, meh" quotes to others!
So What? (Score:3, Insightful)
I haven't read the article, but what software do you use to add songs to this player? I doubt it uses iTunes, and I doubt it is as simple as moving a directory over to it.
Re:So What? (Score:5, Informative)
hmm. let's look at the manual.
The documentation claims that you need the software, but... I doubt it. They're not Apple :) SanDisk is a (the?) leading manufacturer of consumer-targeted flash products. I think they're unlikely to make that mistake.
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If you really want a manager for something like this though I bet there will be one which works with linux created (if it doesn't come with it). Gnomad 2 might even work with it
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Flawed logic, look;
Microsoft is a (the?) leading manufacturer of consumer-targeted software products. I think they're unlikely to make that mistake.
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I too use an ipod for my music playing, but it's because of aesthetics and the fact that I need to nothing more than plug it in and it automatically synchronizes with iTunes. If I was wiser, i'd have fo
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Transfering music to the player (Score:2)
The player has two modes. One is like a USB drive. Non DRM MP3 and WMA files can be dragged and dropped.
The other supports Microsoft DRM Plays for Sure. In that mode Windows Media Player on Windows XP is used to transfer secure WMA files.
from the well-thats-not-very-exciting dept (Score:2, Funny)
"alternative MP3 player for Linux" (Score:2)
Wrong placed PR on so many level... But, for once, we have arrived to a time in OS history when it's fashionable to market a product as being anything at all for Linux users
That's no iPod killer! (Score:5, Funny)
It's a Zune killer! 8^)
iTunes / AAC lock-in (Score:2)
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And all Apple would have to do to avoid those kind of accusations is to license FairPlay. But no, too tempting, all that power.
Re:iTunes / AAC lock-in (Score:5, Informative)
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AAC is a format not DRM (Score:2)
AAC is just a format. Advanced Audio Codec played by apple some Sony players and a bunch of others. Its the audio portion of h.258 mpeg4. Lots of software player can play it.
AAC+Fairplay is whay apple uses in its itunes music store.. It used to be trivial to remove and leave just an AAC file. Now you have to burn to CD and rip back, which is pretty fast, and you should backup anyway.
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I have mine set to MP3 at 160kbps... this way if I ever do get something other than an iPod (or my wife does) it's easy to switch. For instance, I've been looking at phones recently (my 2 year contract is almost up... and my phone is starting to die) and it's nice that a lot of phones nowadays come with M
Micro-SD, not mini-SD... (Score:5, Informative)
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Although the form factor of MicroSD makes it easy to carry a bunch of them. Which you will need to do in order to get more than 2 GB.
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2gb micro sd [google.com]
2 gb mini sd [google.com]
what's wrong with SD? We used it on PDAs for years (still do) and now it's cheap, fast and common. Seems like they come out with a new format every year.
Yeah, but chicks dig ipods (Score:5, Funny)
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Of course from the sight she gave to me it was clear that, if I buy her something else than an Ipod, it will just be "ok" whereas
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Specs (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Specs (Score:5, Insightful)
A few things (Score:2)
Second: Great job on doubling the storage and making it expandable, while keeping at the same price point.
Third: My real question. How big is it? I looked all over the San Disk site, but to no avail for dimensions. I have an iPod Nano because it's small and durable. And is shaped in a way that I feel comfortable with it in my pocket.
This thing will definately compete with the Nano if it's about the same size, but even at twice the size or thickness, and people may
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MiniSD? I think you mean MicroSD (Score:5, Interesting)
Pros of this player over a nano:
Cons:
Looks worth a look though.
Honest Opinion? (Score:2)
I welcome... (Score:5, Insightful)
Works better on Mac, I know
Rival != Killer (Score:2)
Observations (Score:2)
- looks good
- included radio
- good capacity
- expansion slot
- user replaceable and rechargeable Lithium Ion battery
- supports MP3
- support of 'Secure WMA'
Bad
- no Mac or Linux support
- no FM-tuner is available in Europe
- support of 'Secure WMA'
- does not support AAC, WAV, AIFF, FLAC, ALE or OGG
This one is certainly in the running... (Score:2)
After getting that foolishness out of my system I haven't seen anything yet that tempted me. I learned from my misadventure and swore not to buy a half assed solution again. Here is what I currently want out a replacement for my rapidly aging Minidisk player:
1. Able to run rockbox well. It is the o
8GB would do the trick ? (Score:2)
Couldn't care less about AAC (Score:2)
Then again, people like me couldn't give a rat's ass about AAC support at any quality. I don't have a single file in that format and aren't even sure if I could play one on my desktop, my xmms certainly doesn't have the plugin installed. Almost certain I couldn't encode one. As for the iTunes store, not only would I never buy DRM, I wouldn't buy lossy encodings at the prices they ask even if they were unencumbered.
So tell me again why I care? For that matt
missing an AM tuner (Score:2, Interesting)
killer (Score:2)
I really like my Sansa (Score:4, Informative)
I think it blows the ipod away
Here is a short review I wrote up last month:
http://www.chrismay.org/2006/07/15/MySansaE200Rev
features vs iTMS/interface (Score:2, Interesting)
DISCLAIMER : I will not claim at any point that this is the best player out there. I do wish to point out some of its features though to people who criticize players that have interfaces that aren't the same as the iPod.
Nice iPodish menu, yes it has software hich is as simple as drag and drop. You cant complain about the player interface. What about the software? My karma has gone through the wringer before because of Apple fanboys who complain that players don't
Not just linux users (Score:2)
Don't go thinking it's just you linux guys that want stuff that doesn't require special software. Stuff that requires special software is a pain in the butt for many reasons.
Generally, the only way for me to find good hardware for my Windows box - hardware that uses reasonably generic formats, connnectors, and software - is to look for the stuff that t
SanDisk to audiobook/podcast listeners: drop dead! (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm one of those odd folks who uses a portable audio device almost solely for listening to podcasts and audiobooks. And it's clear that SanDisk has basically written us off.
I've owned two versions of SanDisk's Digital Audio Player, the original 256MB version and the version 2 1GB model. Ironically, audiobook support decreased between the two versions. Version 1 supported Audible [audible.com] formats 2 through 4 (4 being the highest quality), Version 2 supports only 2 and 3. Version 1 would save your place in a file when you switched to the radio and back, Version 2 doesn't. Version 1 let you increase playback speed up to 130%, version 2 has no speed options. In other words, all of the spoken-word-friendly features were dropped.
Now the e280 appears to have no support for Audible format (though it may be undocumented; I did check the full PDF User's Manual), no bookmarking or other features designed for long spoken-word files.
My next MP3 device purchase is going to be an iPod Nano. Sorry, SanDisk, you've lost me.
So the Nano has been out for ... 18 months? (Score:3)
1) It looks quite nice.
2) It probably won't sell very well anyway.
3) Apple's replacement for the Nano will quite likely be nicer in ways Sandisk hasn't anticipated.
Oh well, let's see what they produce 18 months from now.
Sansa e200 series (Score:4, Informative)
I can mount it as a drive in Linux, drag and drop music to it, viola!
The video playback may be a gimmick, but it isn't bad. Also, the FM reception leaves much to be desired... the sound is decent, but the range isn't very good.
All in all, this is a great line of players. The design was well thought out, menus are very attractive, the wheel is somewhat clunky but I think it is easier to use than the "touch" wheel that everyone goes ga-ga over (including my fiance, she loves her iPod). It's mechanical, and I feel like I have more control over it.
Hope my own testimonial can help someone decide if they like this player.
Satellite Radio (Score:3, Interesting)
Not only do they provide a satellite reciever, but the units also come with USB connectivity and an MP3 player capability - in additiona to docking stations for automobiles. You can upload your music to the machine and listen to it, and you can save satellite programming as MP3 for later download (reverse pod-cast?).
She is particularly interested in satellite radio because she doesn't care to sit down and find pod-casts, or music online --- she just wants to spin a dial and get a selection of music and talk radio on the fly. She also saw the benefit of being able to save what was currently playing to share with me - so she doesn't have to remember all the details to harange me by word-of-mouth later on - she can just put it on my multimedia server on my upload directory - so my player can automagically slirp it up (oh joy...).
At least I know what to get her for her birthday this year. I think I'll stick with an MP3 player myself - when I save enough money to get one.
I have a SanDisk MP3 player... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:ya but.... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:ya but.... (Score:5, Funny)
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The device has two modes.
One mode attaches like a USB drive and supports MP3 and non DRM WMA files. Unlike an Ipod, files transfered here are playable.
The other mode is useless. That mode is all the Windows DRM WMA and subscription stuff. That's of no use to Linux users.
Re:The Best Linux MP3 Player... (Score:4, Informative)