Ever-Happy Mouse Sheds Light on Depression

An anonymous reader writes "Scientists have bred a strain of mouse that's permanently cheerful, in hopes of better understanding and treating depression in people. By breeding mice lacking the TREK-1 gene, which is involved in serotonin transmission, researchers were able create a depression-resistant strain. They say it's the first time depression has been eliminated through genetic alteration of an organism."

Brain Candy

[bilbo909]

Reminds me of the movie Brain Candy.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116768/ [imdb.com]

a similar effect in humansth

[roman_mir]

humans can have very similar experience: just quit work and start smoking pot, eating magic mushrooms and dancing on the streets in the nude.

Is it a good idea to get rid of stress-related (causing) mechansims? A stress free life maybe a very exciting prospect for an individual for about a month or a year, but is this going to be good from point of view of the bigger picture? If humans did not stress about things at all, would they bother doing anything, like bothering to find food, protecting the offspring, basically surviving as a species?

Re:Makes you not care?

[Eivind Eklund]

If you wonder, find out... The answer is somewhat complex.

To give you at least some help: Part of the reason for the apathy of the anti-depressant crowd is that the most common anti-depressants are serotonin boosters (SSRIs), and serotonin is an inhibitory neurotransmitter. Now, certain other antidepressants (e.g, MAOIs) work by boosting other neurotransmitters, and can handle depression without apparently leading to the kind of apathy/nonchalance you're talking about.

With the usual Slashdot disclaimer: I am not a psychiatrist.

Eivind.

Re:Makes you not care?

[edunbar93]

Spoken like someone who's never had a problem with depression.

Personally, I think that's a small sacrifice to keep from wanting to KILL YOURSELF!

When someone's clinically depressed, the whole world is in shades of grey to them. Things that would normally bring joy are met at best with indifference and anger at worst. Interest in eating and having sex wanes. Social activities and obligations are ignored, along with housework. They feel listless and sleep more.

Then there's the extreme sadness and suicidal tendencies.

Personally, I wouldn't mind not caring for the 4 months out of the year that I'm depressed.

Re:What about appropriate depression ?

[Moraelin]

Less loss of work time and more productivity. What else is there to strive for?

It may actually work the other way around.

See, the brain (and not only in humans) is nicely tuned to keep needing the next thing to be happy about. Whenever you have some achievement (even small ones, like getting food when you're hungry) the brain gives itself a "yay, I'm happy" chemical signal, but that's followed immediately by releasing the "antidote" to that signal, to get back to the baseline. So you'll need the next achievement for your next moment of joy.

It's what keeps humans and all animals active. It's why your cat plays and thus trains its reflexes daily, instead of vegetating in a corner, still happy that it played last month.

In human society it's also a very important factor in why, for example, consumerism is alive and kicking, and keeping the capitalist economy going well past the point where just the needs are covered. People keep having these illusions like "man, I would be soo happy if I had that one more gadget/shirt/etc", and they do get happy about it... for a very brief time. Then they need their next achievement. And in turn, getting caught in the consumerism race also keeps them in the rat race at work, and taking shit they otherwise wouldn't put up with.

You can see in "video game addiction" cases what happens when people can stay continuously happy. It's not really physiological addiction, but good games give people small rewards often, which triggers the "yay, I'm happy" signal in the brain. There's always one more quest you finished, one more recipe you learned, one more item that you sold at the auction house (or IRL on eBay), one more boss you defeated, one more equipment piece you found, etc. So some people, which are kept happy enough by that, end up not doing anything else. You can see cases going all the way to playing for a month and then dropping dead.

So my take is that if someone actually produced genetically-engineered humans which are permanently happy, those humans would be even worse. They wouldn't even need video games to stay happy, so they probably wouldn't bother even with that. If you can be perfectly happy sitting on the couch watching the wall, you don't need to do anything else. You don't even need to buy a TV. Nor take shit from a PHB and do overtime to afford a huge plasma TV and a fashionable house in the suburbs. You get the idea.

Re:Makes you not care?

[Anonymous Coward]

"People I've met on anti-depressants can be pretty non-chalant regarding just about everything, so long as they're on their pills."

In those of us with inflammatory diseases such as psoriasis, psoriatic arthritis, rheumatoid arthritis, and many others; stress and depression cause severe "flare-ups" of the disease that can be incapacitating, debilitating, and in the long term can even cause deformities. Anything that helps relieve stress is beneficial to us medically, not just psychologically. Understanding the sorry state of the world and the semi-fascist plutocracy I live in (the good old USA) doesn't mean I should ruin my life with worry, particularly since there's nothing I can do about those things.

Re:Exciting Applications!

[Denial93]

And when they manage to create a drug that makes you more happy/motivated/industrious/intelligent (all related factors!) without noticable side effects, you'll get an interesting situation.

If it is regarded ethically acceptable to ask people to take them (or unethical to deny them access!), they will become a commodity item at least for the rich, depending on production prices. I expect employers who fire people who do not use such drugs, insurances with better rates for users, politicians demanding a supply of them for everyone as part of health care.

If, however, they are made illegal (out of habit if for no other reason), they'll be another street drug much like coke and will be extremely popular in schools, especially before exams. Success in life will be directly influenced by one's skill in obtaining illegal items.

I'm all for the former option. The latter is more "natural" and "humane", but I never understood the supposed value of those attributes anyway, and the former is certainly more likely to make a lot of things better in all areas: individual happiness, crime, economy, health... it may be ethical to give up (more of) our natural human condition.

Re:What about appropriate depression ?

[resonte]

Interesting thoughts.

Or alternatively if you could take control of your own pleasure system you could train your brain to learn anything. Like if I had to learn something particularly boring I could switch my brain into a happy state so that it associates a happy tag to this particular event and so would be desirable to repeat the event in future. Though you've got the difficulty of the brain associating happy states to pressing the happy button, I suppose you could avoid that by having an external operator.

Also the potential for abuse is too great.

Try reading this page, but beware of optimistic writing style: http://www.wireheading.com/ [wireheading.com] Wire Heading.

Re:Makes you not care?

[Anonymous Coward]

SSRIs are a bit weird that way, though -- different effects for different people. I tried a number of different ones and they all made me feel robotic (often with a buzzing, slightly speedy sensation as well, which didn't really help the anxiety that was usually associated with the depression I was suffering). TCAs made me better emotionally but getting the dosages right was impossible... they kept on stuffing with my sleeping patterns (18 hours one night, 4 hours the next two, etc.)

Re:Obligatory Cynical Futurist Post

[Nicolay77]

Well, I believe that it really is all the other way around. Church people want us to be unhappy, to feel dirty with sins and all that crap in order to have to run to the church to clean at least part of it, to meet and gather with more sinners to feel you're not the only one (if some other people sins then I'm not that bad).

That's why they don't approve condoms, pills, and as the other answer to your post said, make-me-feel-happy drugs. And they control the government too (Have you ever voted for an atheist?).

Sad and scaried people are easier to control than happy and rational people.

Re:Makes you not care?

[budgenator]

The effect of Zyban/Welbutrin on my wife's Lupis is quite spectacular.

Re:How the hell...

[abstractUser]

Well, I'm wondering if uprooting depression completely is a good idea. Does depression have a darwinian advantage? Will the ever-happy mouse always remain cheerful and lose the fear trait also, and thus not feel shivers running down its spine upon the sight of a cat. Are there any links between fear and depression? Fear definitely has a well-established darwinian advantage. Have we, as humans, evolved to a stage when fear offers no significant survival advantage?

Re:Today's Philosphical question...

[the_duke_of_hazzard]

I think you're confusing depression without cause with depression with cause. If you've been depressed with cause, then in some ways that's a rational response to a situation, eg grief (tho it's debatable). If you've been depressed without cause, then it's a debilitating condition that doesn't in any way help you deal with dificulties later on. Try telling someone with MS that they should be grateful for their condition because it helps them deal with other difficulties in their life. I find it hard to believe you'd rather let people risk their lives than give them a few pills to help them through a difficult period.