First Blu-ray Drives Won't play Blu-ray Movies 329
aapold writes "Sony officially announced its BWU-100A product at its "Experience More 2006" event in Sydney yesterday, all the while acknowledging that there's significant room for improvement before the product is viable for integration into media centre PCs. Sony's product manager for data storage, told CNET.com.au that due to copy protection issues and lagging software development, the drive will only play user-recorded high-definition content from a digital camcorder, and not commercial movies released under the BD format." All this hullabaloo makes me want neither side to win. If only I didn't desperately crave HD content on my TV!
Genius! (Score:5, Funny)
Could be worse. (Score:2, Funny)
Fellow Pitchshifter fan here. Had to interject.
Re:They WILL play blu-ray movies. (Score:3, Insightful)
Wait until there is LOTS of blu-ray hardware and software out, as well as hundreds (thousands?) of movies released in the format. THEN hack it - then it will be too late for the companies to start making major changes to the hardware and software without impacting huge numbers of consumers (and risking a huge backlash).
If you hack it early, the media empirs will just make modifications to break the hack again, and if it's done early enough, they'll be able to do it
Nothing to see (Score:4, Funny)
Yeah, I think that sums up the latest blu-ray problem
if companies from the past behaved (Score:5, Insightful)
If companies from the past behaved as companies today:
But hey, not all is lost, from the fine article:
So the drive is "useful as a storage device". Cool! Now I can get rid of my 250GX2 SATA Raid and keep my data on something useful. Technology just doesn't get any better than this.
Note to providers of stuff: It doesn't matter why your machine can't do what it's even named after(!), it can't. Don't bring us your tired, your poor, ... the wretched refuse of your
product lines until they do what they're supposed to do! What a
Colossus boner.
Re:if companies from the past behaved (Score:5, Insightful)
Ibuka and Morita must be spinning in their graves. They could as well power the PS3 by installing dynamo generators in their graves.
How low has Sony fallen since they passed away?
Re:if companies from the past behaved (Score:3, Funny)
Here's the 56K modem version:
* 10th speed not usable due to FCC momentum regulations
Re:if companies from the past behaved (Score:3, Funny)
Next media should be defined by the community. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Next media should be defined by the community. (Score:5, Insightful)
it's been the standard with anime groups for the past couple years.
Re:Next media should be defined by the community. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Next media should be defined by the community. (Score:3, Interesting)
You'll want MkvToolNix [bunkus.org]. It's gui's called mmg (and is part of the package).
Create an avi with video and audio in dvd::rip, have it extract the vobsub file. Then use mmg to merge the avi and the vobsub file (mmg can split the files too, so don't do it in dvd::rip).
If you're ready to invest more time you might look at how to create a x264 video (if you got the horsepower for playback that is) because it's much better than even XviD.
Re:Next media should be defined by the community. (Score:3, Insightful)
Sure, once we know what the next generation of media will BE, we'll get back to you on that.
Fortunately, there's a format that will kill Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, and it's already here: DVD.
Re:Next media should be defined by the community. (Score:2, Informative)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_Forum [wikipedia.org]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD [wikipedia.org]
It's funny to note that the following companies founded the DVD consortium:
Hitachi, Ltd.
Matsushita Electric Industrial Co. Ltd.
Mitsubishi Electric Corporation
Pioneer Electronic Corporation
Royal Philips Electronics N.V.
Sony Corporation
Thomson
Time Warner Inc.
Toshiba Corporation
Victor Company
Hi, my name is Lizzy Fair! (Score:5, Funny)
When corporations decide for consumers what to choose, that is capitalism, when consumers force corporations to make what consumers really want, that is called communism and America will not tolerate communism!!!
[libertarian parody off]
Re:Hi, my name is Lizzy Fair! (Score:2)
Re:Hi, my name is Lizzy Fair! (Score:2)
[parody off]
I'm sorry... (Score:4, Funny)
They encourage piracy.... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:They encourage piracy.... (Score:5, Insightful)
They *could* compete with free, you know.
DRM is good (Score:2, Funny)
mod parent up please (Score:5, Insightful)
Sony and its massive 30 caliber shoot-itself-in-the-foot cannon is our friend in the war against DRM. They do more damage to DRM than any EFF lawsuit could ever hope to.
the demise of the disc (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: the demise of the disc (Score:3, Interesting)
Except, even with my not-too-shabby-for-the-US 8mbit/sec cable connection, it'll take about a day to download a 35gig movie. That's assuming, of course, that I can get reasonably close to my own theoretical limit of 8meg down, and whichever (genius) company is sending me the file can push the data that quickly. I can't get that kind of sustained band
Re: the demise of the disc (Score:2, Informative)
A high quality DVD rip of a movie is around 2GB. double the resolution, and you end up with at most a 8GB movie, ignoring any improvements in what compression techniques could offer, after all, a large splotch of black is still a large splotch of black, no matter what resolution you are recording it at.
8GB is a reasonable download size.
I really wonder WTF technology these companies are using to make their HD content look so crappy. Any DVD pirate who takes pride in his/her work does a far superi
Re: the demise of the disc (Score:5, Informative)
Wrong. A high quality DVD rip of a movie is around 5-7GB. Your definition of high quality must be lacking.
double the resolution, and you end up with at most....
I don't want to double the resolution, I want HD. 1080p video has double the frame rate, a higher colour depth and four times as many pixels as a DVD. With normal MPEG 2 your 8GB DVD becomes more like 64GB. Then factor in your newer compression techniques and we come back down to 30-40GB. You're not going to get a HD movie on a disc for less than 25GB.
Shit, the HD video I shoot with the HDR HC1 isn't even full 1080i res and it comes to 10GB an hour.
Re: the demise of the disc (Score:5, Insightful)
There was a demo set up at a major retailer here in Osaka recently. Two HD televisions, one playing some clip on a modern DVD player, one playing HD content. If I got close - as in one meter kind of close - sure, there was more small detail and the shadowy areas were more "lively" (though that could have been noise, to be frank). But back up to a more normal viewing distance for the screens (42"), and I saw no discernible difference at all, even when I was looking at and comparing the same spots I knew I had seen a difference close up.
For all intents and purposes, the experience I got was identical. And that was with two good HD screens, set up by people who know what they're doing, in a semi-darkened area with black drapes to get rid of incidental light. At home, with an inexpertly tuned screen amd non-optimal lighting (to be kind to myself and to the vast majority of all tv owners) I'm willing to bet that even up close those deficiencies are enough to mask any perceivable improvement.
DVD was a big hit because it overcame some truly glaring deficiencies with VHS tape. You'd had to be blind not to appreciate the difference (or rather, even if blind the sound quality difference is night and day on even a cracked bargain-basement integrated mono speaker on the set). The image quality just didn't compare, unlike a tape the disk never wears down, and you can skip around with abandon instead of tedious winding of the tape.
HD format discs are, I suspect, more like some high-end audio equipment. If you get some serious audio kit your listening experience will indeed improve a lot. But only if you do set it up correctly, only if you then play source material of good enough fidelity to take advantage of that difference and only if you as a listener actually care enough to look for and appreciate the difference. And most people don't. They'll set up the stuff to fit in their living room not fit the audio characteristics; they'll listen to popular music that usually has little fine detail to listen for (since most will listen on low-end equipment it's mixed to make the most of that); they'll sometimes, and increasingly, listen to it encoded on 128bit mp3. A high-end amplifier and serious speakers become mostly a waste of money. Meaning they become low-volume sellers, which means the prices stay high.
For HD players, you have the added headache that the media is different - your normal DVDs will look not one bit better than with a normal, good quality DVD player. Only if you buy the special content (Deutche Gramofon's pressings of classical music anyone?) do you actually get any benefit; that content will however not play in the car for your kids, or at grandma's or, well anywhere since most people have not bought the expensive higher-end equipment you need.
Had they got together on one format they'd have pulled it off; people would have gotten the new equipment on sheer momentum even if they don't get any actual benefits from it. But now that you have to choose from two incompatible formats I think the chances of either becoming mass-market is not that great. I'd not be surprised if one or both stay niche formats, with all movies out on DVD in the foreseeable future, and with only a subset deemed interesting for the niche consumers available on HD. The window for any new physical format is closing and I don't expect either of them to be able to squeeze through in time.
Re: the demise of the disc (Score:5, Interesting)
Sure, these guys get the accolades, and see their files copied across the world, but the bug that drives the true nuts isn't mass approval; it's knowing that nobody else can squeeze the bits like they can.
Paying jobs don't give that: neither the big media corps nor the big media pirates need an ace at this job.
so while they disdain the preponderance of brain-dead pirates who benefit most from their work, they take heart in the few cognoscenti who admire their art.
Yes, it's a sick world we live in. What gives me most fear is the notion that the "Open Source Mentality" itself is to blame, rather than an inefficient marketplace.
Re: the demise of the disc (Score:2)
Re: the demise of the disc (Score:2)
I think both will fail (Score:2)
However... (Score:4, Funny)
Is it really worth it, anyway? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'll wait for the price to come way way down and all of the DRM to be cracked... probably when the next format is announced.
Re:Is it really worth it, anyway? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Is it really worth it, anyway? (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Is it really worth it, anyway? (Score:2, Insightful)
- Some people can hear the difference,
- some can't,
- some could but don't because they have crappy headphones,
- some can but don't care.
The same classification holds for high-definition video (replace "crappy headphones" with "crappy TV"). Which group are you in?
Re:Is it really worth it, anyway? (Score:3, Interesting)
Because, see, 64kbps is downright painful to listen to, while 128K is good enough to listen to and enjoy, but its limitations become readily apparant on high-end stereo systems (or good headphones). 320kbps does introduce noticeable artifacts on rare occasions, but is almost close to "good enough" to consider tossing the CDs to the curb. DVDs can be very enjoyable to watch, but view on a GOOD screen the artifacts become readily apparant. Blu-R
PS3? (Score:5, Interesting)
So is this a confession that the low-end PS3 won't be able to play commercial Blu Ray DVDs? Or does the low-end PS3 use an HDCP-compliant graphics card without offering DVI or HDMI connections?
Re:PS3? (Score:2)
I think it's actually trying to entice MORE users to the PS3 because Sony is trying to claim that by then the problems will be fixed.
Re:PS3? (Score:2)
the 360 has severe restrictions on the media you can store on it, it refuses to even take mp3's onto the hard drive without hacking.
neither of these even comes close to the now long-in-the-tooth xbox media center.
as far as format support and true media capacity goes, the 360 is a joke.
Re:PS3? (Score:2)
Re:PS3? (Score:2)
then there is the whole hd thing.
the point is that these people are claiming a "media center" when all it really is is at best a "token effort"
Re:PS3? (Score:2)
I learned about this stuff while I was looking over news regarding progress to a full modchip (for an upgraded XBMC with beefier processing power).
So far, only the illegitimate activity of pirating games has been cracked open, leaving the poor legitimate homebrew runners like me out to dry =(
Re:PS3? (Score:3, Insightful)
So even in that case you should be able to play blu-ray movies until studios start setting the HDCP flag. Even then it will play blu-ray movies they just get downsampled to normal content (sucks I know).
I do wish the big content providers would stop being so paranoid
Re:PS3? (Score:3, Interesting)
That only introduces a defense against lawsuits from MPAA members.
"Ma'am, did you download Pirates of the Caribbean Part 4"
"Yes sir, I did. You see, Disney enabled HDCP and my hi
DRM (Score:4, Interesting)
Bittorrent has already won this war. (Score:5, Insightful)
go to torrentspy or any other large site and search "hr hdtv"..
blu-ray and hd-dvd are overhyped and already obsolete.
h.264 encoded matroska at 600 mb or so an hour can do the job of these overbloaded and DRM ridden things.
and what's with this.. they expect pc owners to accept the kind of draconian superuser control over their pcs which are specified in their AACS restrictions? Give me a break, it'll never happen.
Re:Bittorrent has already won this war. (Score:2)
On this I disagree, because AFAIK both of the next-gen DVD formats support h.264 encoding. I think this first batch of movies uses MPEG-2, but when the movies start using h.264 they will definitely look better than 600 mb h.264 files. Looking forward to DVD-sized h.264 rips of bluray/hddvd movies so that I can go out and buy the Philips DVD player that supports h.264; this way I get the best of both wo
Re:Bittorrent has already won this war. (Score:2)
I don't think this will be likely.
The amature ripping groups do a better job of processing the footage than their supposedly "professional" counterparts.
i've seen several rips released for series I own on dvd which have higher quality than the source dvds themselves because of those superior mastering techniques.
I think the bitrate overload will simply encourage laziness on the part of release companies, resulting
Re:Bittorrent has already won this war. (Score:2)
Re:Bittorrent has already won this war. (Score:2)
* Starts a countdown waiting for the average sheep^H^H^H^user to let it happen... and I don't think I have to use all of my digits--or even all of my limbs--for this countdown.
HD is overrated (Score:5, Insightful)
It looks nice, but unless I'm TRYING to look for the extra detail, I generally don't notice it.
I've watched a few high def movies; compared Lawrence of Arabia in HD format to SD format, and yes the detail is much crisper - that is, the leaves on the trees in the opening scene are discernable. I also watched Fifth Element in HD, but I've seen it several times before and the being HD didn't really look any different.
Re:HD is overrated (Score:3, Interesting)
-Rick
Re:HD is overrated (Score:3, Interesting)
Fifth Element was Super 35mm. Don't know what they might have done otherwise.
Re:HD is overrated (Score:5, Informative)
Funny you ask, we recently had a special edition of The Natural in the shop...
For picture, the best you can get is either an interpositive (which is just one generation down from the camera negative), or the camera negative itself. The camera neg is often in not great shape, though, since it's been cut and A-B rolled. Also dust on the interpositive looks black, whereas dust on the cam neg looks white, and camera neg doesn't have the printer lights from timing I recall (I'm a sound guy, if someone at a lab is reading, please correct me). Interpositives are low-contrast prints of the camera negative, on one strip, and they're usually only run thru a printer a few times, once to strike the IP itself, and once to strike a few internegatives (these are what release prints are struck from).
For sound, the sound optical is usually contact printed onto the IP, but we almost always go back to the original Dialogue/Music/FX stems, which are recorded on 35mm magnetic film. 35mm mag film actually has quite high fidelity, nearly 70dB dynamic range and at least 15 kHz on the high end, so often the the mag sounds a bit better than what is on the optical. As well, the stems will have the discrete speaker channels (particularly the center speaker and surround), which are derived from the optical but do not actually exist on it, so we can "widen" the original mix from it's original format (either 4-channel Dolby Stereo or less) into a true 5.1.
If the filmmaker is still alive, he/she'll often sit thru the mix (my end of it) and have some new sound FX cut to modernize the sound, and maybe even try to rearrange some dialogue he didn't like or tweak the music levels (since we have separated stems, he can change either DIA, MX or FX without affecting the other two.) The Superman DVD WB has out right now is a good example of this from a sound point of view (also a great movie).
Coincidentally, The Natural was released and is owned by TriStar Pictures, which was bought in the late 80s by Columbia, which was itself bought in the early 1990s by... Sony. (fair disclosure: Sony PIctures Entertainment is my current employer).
I smell class action (Score:3, Interesting)
But we have to remember this is Sony, so you can't expect something smart or fair for the consumer.
Re:I smell class action (Score:2)
Obligatory: "But, aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln... (Score:4, Interesting)
The manufacturers seems to be falling over themselves trying to bring flawed, faulty, and generally unfinished products to market... presumably oblivious to the possibility the first kid on the block to get one will tell all his friends about his experiences.
I do believe Blu-Ray and HDDVD are well on their way to becoming the quadraphonic sound of the new millennium.
Re:Obligatory: "But, aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln (Score:2)
I bet this is why Longhorn is taking so long.....
{...ducks....}
Re:Obligatory: "But, aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln (Score:2)
I predict that soon, because of these observations, consumers will have to file an NDA before purchasing one of these systems. They will be forbidden from taking pictures of these things, or speaking about them outside of their family ( don't want to be draconian now, do we? ).
Serious men in serious black suits will be checking up on you to make sure you don't tell your friends how
Wow (Score:2)
Re:Wow (Score:5, Informative)
http://focuscamera.com/sc/froogle-lead-1.asp?id=9
2.9 GB per dollar - Samsung Spinpoint: $55, 160 GB harddrive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N8
And that is just the blu-ray disc, not the drive.
Messing up a huge business opportunity *again* (Score:2, Insightful)
The total income if the whole world were to buy new HDTVs, HD Entertainment systems and players, as well as a buch of HD DVDs is an order of magnitude higher than what hollywood and RIAA stands to loose if you make it all easy and user friendly.
Instead they mess this huge opportunity up with copy protection BS.
I have no problem buying a few hundred HD DVDs for $20 each over a few years *even* if I can get a copy
Re:Messing up a huge business opportunity *again* (Score:2)
OK, the rest of the world wants the movie and doesn't want to pay $20 for it. They want to pay $0 and will build up a huge collection they can loan out to their friend, neighbors and anyone else on the Internet just so they can show everyone their HUGE collection.
While there might be some people perfectly willing to pay $20 for a nice case, the folks that want the movie for $0 are far in the majority. Piracy is here to stay and unless the media com
It's all but official: Sony is backing HD-DVD (Score:2)
In other news... (Score:5, Funny)
Remove copy protection and make more money overall (Score:2, Interesting)
Personality disorder (Score:2)
"We are not going to settle for 'profitability' like some cheap whore. Either we want ALL of the money, or you can keep your f@#($@*^%# money, god damn it."
Re:Remove copy protection and make more money over (Score:2)
I'm sure a lot of people believe that. But would you be willing to lay several billion dollars on the line because of it?
Sony knows what it's getting with content protection. For better or for worse, they've done content protection. That's what they'r
Ironic (Score:2, Funny)
They reveal this during the "Experience More 2006" event, and yet users are NOT going to experience more with this restriction. I wish I could tag this "DUMBA**" like they do on fark.com. The "IRONIC" tag might work too.
But then again, suppose users are going to "experience more" headaches and nazi-like DRM.
Sheer moronitude (Score:5, Funny)
Sony Pictures Entertainment: Sorry, we need our DRM.
Sony Electronics: We could be selling these players and achieving market dominance, though.
Sony Pictures Entertainment: DRM.
Sony Electronics: You could also be selling tons of brand new Blu-Ray discs now.
Sony Pictures Entertainment: Hello? DRM?
Sony Electronics: Our players could be in homes across America and around the world in time for the winter holiday season this year, and you'd be selling high def movies like hotcakes.
Sony Pictures Entertainment: What part of "DRM" don't you understand?
Sony Electronics: Fine, DRM, whatever. I just hope we don't become laughing stocks when we go to Australia this summer.
Re:Sheer moronitude (Score:2)
Hilarious. Only one thing missing: Sony Pictures Entertainment (America) saying "But if we don't have our DRM, the terrorists win!!"
Also (Score:5, Funny)
Firmware Upgradeable? (Score:2, Interesting)
It reminds me of many MMOGs initial releases:
"You can buy Game-X now!, you just won't be able to login to the server and play for 2-3 weeks. l33t!"
Re:Firmware Upgradeable? (Score:2)
Great Idea! (Score:5, Funny)
Adios, HDTV (Score:2)
This kind of crap is why I still don't own and HDTV, and doubt I ever will. Given all the fighting over media formats and DRM systems, I doubt that HDTV will make it as a standard. By the time the manufacturers and content creators get all this crap worked out, something new will have come along, the porn industry will be on board, and HDTV will go quietly into the night, with old sets serving as a reminder of why manufacturers need to stop bickering
Oh, Lordy... (Score:2)
Take gun, point at foot, pull trigger...... (Score:2)
Like a reallllly stupid spider (Score:2)
More Products (Score:2, Insightful)
Well, you can't trick me a
Re:More Products (Score:2)
Hahaha. My roommates did all those things and more. I remember watching them play once and being amazed at how boring it was. I've now seen WOW level-grinding and it still boggles my mind at how bad SWG was.
My favorite memory was coming up to one roommate playing Enemy Territory on one computer while another made bleeping noises as his SWG
*cough* *cough* (Score:5, Informative)
Re:*cough* *cough* (Score:2)
Re:*cough* *cough* (Score:3, Interesting)
Drives potentially OK, everything else NOT... (Score:2)
FTA: "Bautista says that one of two reasons for this is the fact that commercial content is encrypted with High-Bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP), which can only be decrypted using a HDCP-compliant graphics card that offers DVI or HDMI connections. Since there are currently no PCs for sale offering graphics chips that support HDCP, this isn't yet possible.
The second reason, according to Bautista, is that BD playback software that can decrypt HDCP isn't "released as a saleable item yet". Today, t
Bah! All this new stuff... (Score:2)
We had HD all along! Try Super 8 [wikipedia.org] with good film.
Do they even want to sell media? (Score:4, Interesting)
Frankly, I'm sick of it... I'upgrade my sat reciever to watch NFL in HD this fall, but I have very little desire to waste money on HD movies these days. Back when I was an HT geek I probably woulda considered it, but these days I'm far closer to being joe-sixpack than an HT geek. About the only thing that'll get me to start buying HD movies is when the ITMS starts selling them and I can store them indefinitely on my mini, take them with me on my powerbook, and re-encode them to carry on my vPod. Yeah, guess that make me one of the sheeple...
so wait.... (Score:5, Funny)
Sony just doesn't learn (Score:3)
Re:So much for Sony in the coming format war! (Score:5, Interesting)
1. Develop really nice content format.
2. Promote the hell out of new content format.
3. Artificially CRIPPLE THE FUCK out of new content format.
4. Wonder why people aren't buying new content format.
5. Abandon new content format.
See also: BetaMax, MiniDisc, MemoryStick, UDF, etc...
I should say this is really typical of Sony USA. Things like MiniDisc were really popular in Japan, but the restrictions imposed on the format came from pressures from Sony's U.S. media divisions.
Sony execs and marketing people refuse to learn from their mistakes, so they keep repeating them. They've been doing it over and over again for literally decades now.
As a matter of fact, unless HD-DVD manages to be as easy to uncripple as DVDs (and it appears that it will be), it too will be stillborn.
You for got 4.5! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:You for got 4.5! (Score:5, Interesting)
The devil in the details is Sony's split personality:
I say "one division or the other" because it varies. CE will hang on to formats that are useful outside of Big Media's influence. Beta lived on in professional circles, MiniDisc found new life in NetMD, and Memory Stick is still their preferred camera memory format. UMD looks like it's dead to both sides. (PSP : UMD movies :: chicken : egg) Looks like CE is already losing interest in Blu-Ray, with this non-Big-Media-compliant drive.
Re:You for got 4.5! (Score:3, Interesting)
After the fiasco with Blu-ray and the required DRM allegedly being a big contributor to the PS3's delays, this is Sony embarrassing themselves with their DRM once again. Situations liek this just give more time for HD-DVD to gain market share while the Japanese giant flounders.
Re:So much for Sony in the coming format war! (Score:4, Interesting)
Sony as a whole (which encompasses more then just the almight world that is the USA)
Sony USA (which has been fucking over the US for quite awhile)
cause there is a big difference in the two, SUSA made a lot of formats die when they really didn't need to (such as MiniDisc), while in other countrys the format(s) took off and flurished.
MiniDisc is the best example, it bombed in the US but just about everywheres else it's still used today. So it makes you wonder just how much influance SUSA has in their global operations now, $600 for the PS3, Blu-Ray drives that don't even play Blu-Ray movies, The Blu-Ray spec isn't even finalized yet cause they haven't decided on a Copy protection scheme to use. Sure their main headquarters is in Japan which is right next to China but the lengths they are going through for copy "protection" is more in tune to the DMCA and stripping rights away from people.
Re:So much for Sony in the coming format war! (Score:2)
Re:So much for Sony in the coming format war! (Score:2)
Re:So much for Sony in the coming format war! (Score:4, Funny)
Oh.. wait
Re:So much for Sony in the coming format war! (Score:2)
But, hey I'll meet you on the sidelines. Better yet, I'll go diving, where I am still using film in my cameras to record things.