BBC Reports UK-U.S. Terror Plot Foiled 1792
j823777 was one of several readers to point out a BBC report that "A terrorist plot to blow up planes in mid-flight from the UK to the U.S. has been disrupted, Scotland Yard has said. It is thought the plan was to detonate up to three explosive devices smuggled on aircraft in hand luggage.
Police have arrested 21 people in the London area after an anti-terrorist operation lasting several months. Security at all airports in the UK has been tightened and delays are reported. MI5 has raised the UK threat level to critical — the highest possible."
spo0nman adds a link to the Associated Press's coverage.
Update: 08/10 12:57 GMT by T : Several readers have pointed out new restrictions imposed as a result of this plot on passengers' carry-on luggage. In the UK, nearly all possession (including laptop computers) must be carried in the cargo hold; while their rules don't yet go quite as far, U.S. airlines are stepping up their enforcement of carry-on-restrictions, including banning substances like toothpaste.
TSA just anounced the new restrictions on (Score:5, Informative)
No liquids or gels can be brought on board.
Reduce the "clutter" in your luggage so the inspectors have a clear view.
Medicine is ok and baby formula but be prepared to show it to the inspector.
Call carrier to see how early you have to arrive.
Have fun flying?!.
Latest (Score:5, Informative)
Explosives are suspected to have been carried on in hand luggage as liquids, suggesting that they were planning to use binary agents (where two non-explosive chemicals are mixed to form a 3rd reactive substance).
Currently travelers from the UK are being told that (IIRC) they may board the planes with absolutely no more than 7 carryon items, limited to a select list such as:
- 1 book
- 1 newspaper
- wallet
- passport
etc.
Re:Good work (Score:5, Informative)
Now we have a situation where the only hand luggage allowed is medicines, wallets, baby food (must be eaten/tasted by parent in front of security staff), sanitary products (unboxed), etc. Shoes must be removed and X-rayed.
Anything electronic must go in the hold (laptops, cameras, gameboys, etc)
No liquids are allowed on US bound flights, due to tip off that liquid explosives would have been involved.
Full info on restrictions [dft.gov.uk]
Makes you wonder where they'll be trying to hide explosives next. Full body cavity search for all passengers? It's only a matter of time...
Re:After reading the dreck on here (Score:3, Informative)
Re:All simplistic theories aside.... (Score:2, Informative)
and look for references.
Urgent: anyone here from High Wycombe? (Score:3, Informative)
Does anyone here have more information about what's going on in High Wycombe please?
Cheers,
Ian
Re:After reading the dreck on here (Score:2, Informative)
Is this sarcastic?
WTC bombing #1, Khobar Towers, US embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, USS Cole.
Whose watch were those on?
Clinton's.
Re:Again, probably a non-existent terror plot (Score:5, Informative)
No, [scotsman.com]He [bbc.co.uk] wasn't [timesonline.co.uk] fleeing from the police.
You should really try and get your facts right before you accuse other people.
Re:Again, probably a non-existent terror plot (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Just in time for U.S. Mid-Term Elections (Score:5, Informative)
I have been watching BBC news for the last 30 minutes (I live in the UK). Considerable detail has already been released and it's still the first day of the operation.
We have been told:
* Liquid explosives were planned to be hidden in soft drinks bottles (hence the ban on liquids).
* The explosives would be detonated over the atlantic (to ensure maximum fatalities).
* The attack would come in waves. As things start to clam down after the first wave, another wave was to be launched.
* The deah toll would be greather than 9/11.
According to US spokespeople:
* The investigation has been "critical" for about 2 weeks.
Compared to the vague information you hear from US alerts, this seems *much* more credible.
Re:Now, what conclusions can you draw from this (Score:2, Informative)
British Subway bombings (2005)
Beslan massacre in Russia (2004)
Madrid train bombings (2004)
Do us a favor..do a fast google search. I did !
Here is a link for some more.
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/pubs/fs/5902.htm [state.gov]
Why Planes? (Score:4, Informative)
Why are planes and airports apparently such an appealing target for terrorism? If I really wanted to do some damage to civilians i'd go to a sold out college football game (very little security) and blow a chunk out of the stadium. If I wanted to do some damage to the government then I'd find some fairly small military building to blow up. And lastly, if I wanted to do something that would get a ton of media attention, i'd blow up a water tower or some sort of public monument.
The only reason I could think that planes are so attractive is that you only have to overtake several people and once you are in the cockpit, you are free to do whatever you want without revolt. Unless you have specific plans to use the plane (not just blow it up while its in flight) or hold the passengers hostage, it doesn't seem like a very great capture. I suppose one other advantage is that the terrorist doesn't have to worry about being stabbed to death with nail clippers that bystanders had on them since you can be sure the airport security took those all away.
Re:Good work (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Good work (Score:2, Informative)
How is it that the "possibility of a sub-plot they don't know about" merits a highest-level "this means an attack is imminent" alert?
Especially as they've arrested 21 people and no terrorist in his right mind would try to put his "sub-plot" into action with the headlines full of this news.
Let's not suspend our scepticism either (Score:3, Informative)
1. The British authorities have a record of attempting to conjure 'terrorist threats' out of nothing [indymedia.org.uk] in order to increase public support for unpopular foreign and domestic policy decisions. [msn.com]
2. If the UK really is under threat of "imminent attack" and there really is credible intelligence on which to base that belief, then shouldn't the PM be in the UK and not on a Caribbean beach? [timesonline.co.uk]
One cannot be certain at this early stage that this is a mere PR exercise - but neither is it appropriate to suspend scepticism entirely. Especially given the track record of this goverment.
Re:Good work (Score:3, Informative)
For threat level breakdown etc, go http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/security/current-thr
Re:More questions (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Good work (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Hmm. (Score:3, Informative)
They're spazzing here at the Indianapolis International Airport.
Anytime the morning shows (Today, GMA, etc.) break back to local coverage, it's about twenty-one people being arrested on the Heathrow side, a warning to anyone expecting to leave Indy [that] no liquids, not even hair gels will be permitted (except in checked-in luggage, and people are in some serious (and slow) lines to check this luggage after adjusting everything.
The other time consumer consists of people waiting to pick up all of their baggage.
It shouldn't be that big a deal, but because so many people typically have one or two carry-ons, or one carry-on, and one check-in, their travel pattern|philosophy is shot and they're out of their element.
Although they haven't stated as much, one gets the feeling there's an issue with binary solutions, not a singular.
One of the other issues is one of the items on the taboo list looks pretty much like baby formula.
Does this (no formula) mean kids can't ride and there won't be any screaming brats on our flights? (God can only hope)
Re:as we all know a cargo hold is no place for a l (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Again, probably a non-existent terror plot (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Good work (Score:1, Informative)
That is when you do what GWB did, goto a school full of kids and tell them stories.
Re:Some numeric speculation (Score:3, Informative)
Get your facts right (Score:2, Informative)
He wasn't fleeing anyone. He walked slowly all the way, until he got into the recently arrived carriage and sat down comfortably into the first available seat. Then the police stormed in and shot him.
He wasn't wearing a bulky jacket but jeans, he didn't have wires protuding, he didn't jump over the underground ticket machines, he didn't even run from anyone.
The police killed an innocent man and they got away with it.
Re:Questions (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Good work (Score:5, Informative)
From http://www.dft.gov.uk/ [dft.gov.uk] - airline security statement.
Also note it's only "sufficient and essential for the flight".
What you do for the several hours people are waiting to get on the flight is anybodys guess.
Note also the bit about having to drink any baby milk - previously held to be only an urban legend http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/milk.htm [snopes.com]. Fiction becomes reality.
Re:Just in time for U.S. Mid-Term Elections (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What is the goal behind terrorism? (Score:5, Informative)
The main goal as far as the US is concerned is to push the US out of the middle east. Bin Laden specifically stated his goal was to get the US to stop propping up dictators in the middle east, supplying weapons to Israel, and basically, to stay out of their business.
Terrorism typically works on an invading force, especially when that force is relucatant to kill civilians. Once the price in blood is too high, the invading force will usually pull out. It has worked in the past.
If you want to understand what Bin Laden wants, read his Fatwah. Here is a brief part of it from wikipedia:
1998 Fatwa
In February 1998, another Fatwa was issued that was signed by Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri and others.
Published on the 23rd February in the Al-Quds Al-Arabi independent newspaper, it lists three grievances:
* U.S. occupation of the Arabian Peninsula
"First, for over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples. If some people have in the past argued about the fact of the occupation, all the people of the Peninsula have now acknowledged it. The best proof of this is the Americans' continuing aggression against the Iraqi people using the Peninsula as a staging post, even though all its rulers are against their territories being used to that end, but they are helpless."
* U.S. devastation of the Iraqi people and humiliation of their Muslim neighbors
"Second, despite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by the crusader-Zionist alliance, and despite the huge number of those killed, which has exceeded 1 million... despite all this, the Americans are once again trying to repeat the horrific massacres, as though they are not content with the protracted blockade imposed after the ferocious war or the fragmentation and devastation. So here they come to annihilate what is left of this people and to humiliate their Muslim neighbors."
* U.S. support of Israel
"Third, if the Americans' aims behind these wars are religious and economic, the aim is also to serve the Jews' petty state and divert attention from its occupation of Jerusalem and murder of Muslims there. The best proof of this is their eagerness to destroy Iraq, the strongest neighboring Arab state, and their endeavor to fragment all the states of the region such as Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Sudan into paper statelets and through their disunion and weakness to guarantee Israel's survival and the continuation of the brutal crusade occupation of the Peninsula."
"The International Islamic Front for Jihad against the U.S. and Israel has issued a crystal-clear fatwa calling on the Islamic nation to carry on jihad aimed at liberating holy sites. The nation of Muhammad has responded to this appeal. If the instigation for jihad against the Jews and the Americans in order to liberate Al-Aksa Mosque and the Holy Ka'aba Islamic shrines in the Middle East is considered a crime, then let history be a witness that I am a criminal."
Re:Good work (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Good work (Score:4, Informative)
In the head. Nine times. Accident, eh?
How about I chase you around, trying to shoot you in the head "by accident", and then we'll see how well you accept my humble apologies...
Re:Questions (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Desperation (Score:3, Informative)
The terrorists here don't seem to be motivated by economic reason. Some were already rich and educated. And I don't hear the poor people here blaming western countries for their poverty. Concepts such as global equality and obesity in the US are not their concerns. If you gave them a large sum of money, they would not suddenly become moderates.
I think they are motivated by their extreme view of Islam and the values that go with it. Those who don't share that view and values (like the US) are seen as the enemy and must be eliminated.
Just another day in a police state. (Score:1, Informative)
Quote
Deputy Commissioner Paul Stephenson of Scotland Yard on today's anti-terrorist operation.
"We believe that the terrorists' aim was to smuggle explosives onto aeroplanes in hand luggage and to detonate these in flight."
"We also believe that the intended targets were flights from the United Kingdom to the United States of America."
Well the Deputy Commissioner Paul Stephenson of Scotland Yard is definitely a believer
I do not trust the uk/us government or the uk/us police, and these vague statments only make me wonder if all this terrorist $hit is just hype, and if both goverments have a self harming problem, that they are using as an excuse to force there ideals and actively pursue them as goals.
Just my 50 pence
Chemistry / Physics and Liquid Explosives (Score:4, Informative)
- Are there liquid explosives whose components are (relatively) safely drinkable? I say relatively because, if you're a suicide bomber, it really doesn't matter if it will kill you in 24 hours, you just have to be conscious for 2 or 3 hours after drinking the stuff for the security staff.
- Are there liquid explosives which can be made from a drinkable component (or two or three) and (ewwww) urine?
How far do we go with this?Never happened to me (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Snakes on a Plane (Score:1, Informative)
Appeasement has been tried and failed. The reason they exist is for the purpose of violently pushing an agenda. You can't just shrug off violence on a large scale. 9/11...ehhh, who cares. Bombings in Spain....well, it could have been bigger. Kidnapping of Isreali citizens......it was only a few.
You are a fucking moron who would rather live in tyrannical peace than turbulent freedom. There are times when violence is the only response left.
The GP was a direct cut and paste from Neil Boortz today. [boortz.com] Please develop your own opionions, asshat.
Re:Why oh why (Score:3, Informative)
Not directly, but their deaths can frighten the rest of the population into demanding that the UK, e.g., pull out of Iraq, so that the attacks will stop. That's the idea anyway. Of course if the population allows that to happen, then people know that all you have to do is start blowing up buses and the government will comply with your demands. Not a good precedent to set.
Re:Again, probably a non-existent terror plot (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, it was an independent investigation (IPCC), which the Met Police actually tried to prevent from happening.
And also, that investigation did recommend charges against officers involved - a recommendation that was overruled by the CPS who have decided to prosecute the Met as an organistion for health-and-safety breach instead.
In some ways, that decision might acutally have a result (for the rest of us in future) in changes to policy and procedures, where prosecuting individuals would still leave other police following the same flawed procedures.
Re:Snakes on a Plane (Score:2, Informative)
Yes, send them economic help. In fact, I guarantee you they will be MOST appreciative of this. They will now have even MORE money to use to arm themselves for the coming war against the west.
I actually agree with you here, but only with one minor qualification, the plane that is to be blown-up must be full of fucktard-peace-hippies like yourself. That way I could easily (and happily) shrug and say, "losers". However, this stunning insult would not be directed to the perpetrators of this violence - but to the damn hippies that were on the plane.
Astounding. I agree with 90% of what you say. The 10% that I disagree with is your assertion that the death of innocent civilians is unacceptable. I assert that the death of innocent civilians, while unfortunate, is part of the cost of war. However, the price of NOT destroying these "creatures" is such that the numbers of innocent civilians killed be allowing these islamo-fascits to exist is TRULY unacceptable.
*I'm assuming you actually meant to type acceptable, but due to your "merit based" public education, you simply don't know the difference between the two, and thus "don't talk good".
Re:Just in time for U.S. Mid-Term Elections (Score:1, Informative)
CNN is currently reporting that one phase of the supposed binary explosive is "a British version of Gatorade." Water, roughly 1% salt and 4% sugar. There's not a lot of energy stored in there for release. My guess is that, even if they'd gotten through, this would have been exactly as effective as the shoe bomber. You may remember that he tried, unsuccessfully, for some time to ignite his shoes before other passengers restrained him.
Re:Good work (Score:3, Informative)
In the head. Nine times. Accident, eh?
How about I chase you around, trying to shoot you in the head "by accident", and then we'll see how well you accept my humble apologies...
After high-profile suicide bombings the police found a guy (that happened to live next door to the suspect), with a bulky jacket with wires visible poking out (and who happened to be an electrician), and who made a desperate run for it the moment the police tried to ask him to identify himself (and who happened to be working illegaly and thought the police had actually come to arrest him)? We can argue whether or not the police panicked and could have tried to incapacitate him or whether they had no choice in ensuring public safety, but at the end of the day the guy was a VERY unfortunate victim of circumstance.
Phillip.
Re:Good work (Score:3, Informative)
After high-profile suicide bombings the police found a guy
Correct.
(that happened to live next door to the suspect)
Correct (although the suspect was innocent).
with a bulky jacket with wires visible poking out
Incorrect.
(and who happened to be an electrician),
Correct.
and who made a desperate run for it
Incorrect.
the moment the police tried to ask him to identify himself
Incorrect.
(and who happened to be working illegaly
Correct.
and thought the police had actually come to arrest him)?
Who knows.
We can argue whether or not the police panicked and could have tried to incapacitate him
Incorrect. The armed police thought they were told to eliminate him (check link below).
or whether they had no choice in ensuring public safety,
Menezes was a member of the public.
but at the end of the day the guy was a VERY unfortunate victim of circumstance.
Undoubtedly, although to what degree and why he was shot 9 times in the head remains a mystery. Although his family is suing her, the person in charge of the operation is now being offered a promotion [guardian.co.uk].